There are some big names out there on the defensive side of the ball -- Briggs, Samuel, Dansby, Trufant, Hamlin... I don't know any of these guys well enough to really judge their fit with the GIANTS. But I've heard their names thrown around as big UFA's. Whatever Reese decides to do is cool with me. I won't second guess the man.
Maybe the GIANTS will draft another defensive back. Who knows? The thing that makes me the most happy about the team is that there are no glaring holes anywhere. I agree that the secondary is probably the most shaky. But it's not terrible. We are in good position to solidify every facet of the game and build a dynasty.
If you got 20 minutes -- watch this (it's awesome!!!): http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80690393
Man, that video IS awesome! It's hard to believe that was only 6 days ago! I cannot wait for this Giants' post season to come out on DVD. I could watch those games over and over again.
eViL@ 2/9/2008 7:53 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:
Posted by eViL:
There are some big names out there on the defensive side of the ball -- Briggs, Samuel, Dansby, Trufant, Hamlin... I don't know any of these guys well enough to really judge their fit with the GIANTS. But I've heard their names thrown around as big UFA's. Whatever Reese decides to do is cool with me. I won't second guess the man.
Maybe the GIANTS will draft another defensive back. Who knows? The thing that makes me the most happy about the team is that there are no glaring holes anywhere. I agree that the secondary is probably the most shaky. But it's not terrible. We are in good position to solidify every facet of the game and build a dynasty.
If you got 20 minutes -- watch this (it's awesome!!!): http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80690393
Man, that video IS awesome! It's hard to believe that was only 6 days ago! I cannot wait for this Giants' post season to come out on DVD. I could watch those games over and over again.
Yeah man, that video is a must watch for any GIANTS fan that still hasn't gotten enough of this past SuperBowl win. I might have to watch it again. I love the way NFL Films cuts the footage together to make you get a real feel for the game.
eViL@ 2/9/2008 7:55 PM
Posted by TMS:
i read the Cards might smack the franchise tag on Dansby... Briggs is gonna command way too large a paycheck & anyway our front 7 is solid w/Kiwanuka coming back next season & if they hold onto Mitchell... Zach Deossie stepped up in special teams this season too, so he along w/Gerris Wilkinson will be useful pieces to have as depth at the position going forward.
Marcus Trufant would be an awesome pickup for us at CB to augment our secondary... maybe move Madison to free safety & get rid of Butler since Madison's a solid tackler & Butler sucks in coverage? then use either Webster or Ross as well as Dockery in Nickel & Dime package coverage depending on who wins out in training camp?
or we can just sign Ken Hamlin to play alongside Gibril Wilson... that would give us 2 hard hitting physical safeties in the secondary that should make guys think twice before going through the middle on their pass routes.
i like those possibilities bro.
[Edited by - TMS on 02-09-2008 3:15 PM]
Thanks for the info on the players. Sounds like we got some great possibilities on the horizon. I can't believe how awesome it is right now to be a GIANTS fan
TMS@ 2/9/2008 10:14 PM
seriously... at least we both got 2 NY teams to be excited about right now... u w/ur Mets & me w/my Yanks... Giants really showed the world what NY is all about this season... let's hope the Knicks can do that someday... perhaps before we both have grandkids.
VDesai@ 2/10/2008 2:52 PM
Hey, sorry guys, been sick the last few days and didn't you see your posts.
The Giants will have the $20 mil in cap space this year, but keep in mind, the cap went up significantly last year and is due for another rise this year...most teams will have plenty of cap room, and the Giants won't have significantly more than anyone else. So don't expect them to shopping freely in this market.
In my mind the biggest impact defensive player that the Giants could've gotten was Karlos Dansby- a playmaking LB that they actually wanted to draft a few years ago, but he has been franchised, so he's pretty much out. The other players are corners- but after watching Corey Webster and Aaron Ross in the playoffs, its not crazy to think we have to starting young corners. Corey Webster was downright amazing at times. That said a guy like Nnadi Asamougha from the Raiders is a physical corner that would be a perfect fit in this scheme and is a playmaker. He would be very expensive but a guy who would be a very good fit.
From the safety perspective, they must resign Wilson, because the other guys are tiers down from him. Hamlin is alright- a little overrated and a little too similar to Wilson to committ an equal amount of money to. Really, its Wilson or bust here. Try to draft a nice safety and see how Michael Johnson comes along.
The last area I'd look at is OL/DL. We have a great OL, but a nice big guard could upgrade the team a bit. On DL, maybe just another big body at the nose tackle as insurance.
But really, the Giants are likely to have more space a year from now. So they'd be well advised not to make a splashy move when they don't have to this year. Doing so would hurt their position next year. This FA market looks relatively barren to me.
We've gotta remember that the Giants are teh third youngest team in the NFL. There is so much unrealized upside on this roster. I mean- can you imagine, a full year of Kiwi? A more mature Shockey with a more refined Kevin Boss? A full year of Steve Smith (would you be shocked if he caught 50 balls as the third wr?). A full year of the Jacobs/Bradshaw attack with a fully healed Jacobs (he had lots of hamstring and ankle injuries that he played through). Playmaking Michael Johnson earning more time? Corey Webster as the regular starter?
The biggest choices will be at LB. Mitchell is a really nice player but is limited in coverage and is best going forward. Still he made a lot of big plays. Do you reward him long term? How much is he worth? You've got a nice player in Wilkinson on the bench behind him- is it his turn? Torbor was solid as heck at SAM backer. Rarely made mistakes and had a few nice blitzes. He has progressed nicely as an LB after being converted from college. Kiwi is coming back next year, but since he moves around a lot and is coming back from injury, wouldn't it be nice to still have Torbor. Is DeOssie ready to take over (he's extremely raw coming from Brown)?
In the draft I'd definitely try to get a playmaking LB, regardless. An MLB who can take over for Pierce in 2 years would be nice I'd hit Guard and Safety early...taking those positions early will get you good quality. Another big body at DT.
WR was a need, but after Toomer's resurgence (I doubt they'll cut him now- they'll find a way to restructure), Smith's emergence and Plaxico's gutty efforts, we look good there. The one thing I wouldn't pass up is an opportunity to get a no.1 Plax will be 31 and played through so many serious injuries this year to win the big one, that he might've shortened his career. If you can draft a Manningham or Sweed at 31 that is tempting to me.
Even more tempting is the possibility of signing Randy Moss or trading for Detroit's Roy Williams or Cincy's Chad Johnson. I don't know what the cost would be, but if its draft picks- I'd have hard time passing it up. The Giants would be near impossible to defend with any of these 3 on the roster.
Where Randy Moss ends up will be the story of the offseason and the single biggest shifter of the balance of power. If the Pats decide to pass, don't for one second doubt that the Cowboys will do everything they can to sign him. And that's scary. But we're still the champs.
TMS@ 2/10/2008 4:07 PM
seriously, trying to cover Randy Moss & TO twice a year & maybe a third? that's pretty damn scary... imagine adding Chad Johnson to go along w/Plax? we'd have the tallest WR corps in football by far... Eli could just loft it up there & 1 of those guys would come down w/the ball... i just don't think his antics would be a good match tho... the Giants usually frown on all that "look at me" type stuff in the endzone... i remember Brandon Jacobs got an ear full from Coughlin after he got a penalty when he stuck the ball under his jersey to show love to his pregnant wife after he'd scored a TD... he never did that again.
i think it's a good idea to draft a young MLBer if we can, but i'm still not convinced our secondary is all that... if anything this season has taught us that depth at every position is the way to go... our depth in the defensive secondary is pretty thin right now... any injuries to Ross, Webster, Madison or Wilson & we can easily be exposed... the Giants persevered through that in the middle of the season in spite of that because of our awesome pass rush if u ask me, but way too many times we were burned downfield on big plays.
anyways, hope ur feeling better bro... good info as usual.
VDesai@ 2/10/2008 6:29 PM
Secondary is a tough position to buy in FA. We got really lucky that we were able to pickup a guy like Madison for so cheap. But paying a no.1 corner is one of the most expensive propositions in the NFL. The Giants would do wise not to overcommitt and overextend themselves. They identified a while ago (and I'll give some credit to Accorsi for this, though I'm often loathe to)- that they two positions to pay are QB and DE/Passrushers and we saw that formula win the title. The Giants actually have committed the majority of their top draft picks on DB's and now Ross and Webster are fulfilling their promise. Madison is still good enough to start and Dockery is an above average nickel. I don't think McQ will be back, but I'd expect them to take a good athlete that might need a little more seasoning in the middle rounds of the draft. Webster's emergence changes things.
The other thing I failed to mention in my 10 paragraph essay before (Sorry about the length), is that the most wise thing they can do with the cap space now, is extend some of the stars they have on the roster that really do deserve it. This might take some space this year, but give us more flexibility going intot he future as they can play around with the cap numbers the way they need to. Now that Tuck is done, they really need to extend Snee first and foremost. He should've been a probowler for 2 yrs running, but is waiting on the reputation guys to retire. He's one of the 3 best guards in the NFL.
The next guy to think about is Jacobs. It's a tougher call, cause the Giants have proven to be such an RB factory, but I think the long term outlook is the 2 RB system. Keep Jacobs, work in Bradshaw. Eventually you've got 2 studs. If extending Jacobs means not bringing back Ward, so be it. You still have Droughns and you still have room to develop another young guy. If you can develop Ward and Grant, why not another?
Finally- 2 guys that probably could be due pay raises because they signed extensions a year or two ago that are probably below market for them now- Diehl and Osi. Diehl I think you have to give a bit of a pay bump. This kid has played 4 positions in 4 years for you at a pretty solid level and has been such a key for this team. Now that he's proven to be a competent LT how can you continue to pay him like a starting guard? I don't know what they believe his long term position will be, but he's proven to be better than that contract.
Osi I think they'll have to be more hard line with. They still could always move Kiwi back to DE and have terrorizing ends in Tuck/Kiwi long term. As great as Osi is, I think people can get behind me now when I say he's still third behind Strahan and Tuck, as to who is most consistently disruptive vs. the rush and run. Osi can be even more great than those guys at times, but at other times can go strangely quiet. Over the course of the year he still will get 13-15 sacks and be one of the best DE's in the NFL- my point is we are just uber talented there and he carries less leverage here than he would carry elsewhere. He's still getting paid a lot and I'd make him wait for a pay raise for when after Strahan retires. For now, he should be happy with his deal.
TMS@ 2/11/2008 2:56 AM
awesome article on the Giants' plans for the offseason:
As the New York Giants transition into building their team for 2008 and a potential Super Bowl repeat, they are faced with an unusual question: Does Jeremy Shockey still have a place on the club?
Super Bowl champions generally wouldn't think twice about welcoming back a star tight end who missed the team's dramatic run to the title because of a season-ending injury (fractured fibula). If a team without Shockey could win it all, a club with him would seemingly increase its chances.
Yet Shockey's return figures to be one of the most important questions facing the Giants. Some, such as former backup quarterback Tim Hasselbeck, believe the Giants' late-season success was due in part to Shockey being eliminated from the mix, thus allowing quarterback Eli Manning to thrive.
General manager Jerry Reese insisted otherwise in the days leading up to the Super Bowl, saying the Giants would have enjoyed the same dramatic rise with Shockey. He called it a coincidence that the team's surge came after Shockey got hurt.
Soon enough, it will be learned whether Reese really means it.
Shockey is signed through 2011, but he hasn't always endeared himself to teammates. He didn't attend the championship parade last Tuesday. He also watched the Super Bowl from a luxury suite instead of the sideline. Those kinds of things, while more likely tied to his comfort with the broken leg, fuel the perception that he's not fully on board. And that's not to mention his offseason routine of training in Miami.
So as the Giants begin the process of formulating their 2008 roster - Reese led his first draft meeting Friday - the Shockey situation figures to draw significant attention. If Reese is inclined to pull the plug on Shockey, now is the time, because his standing as New York's top decision-maker might never be better after his shrewd moves helped the team capture its unexpected championship.
article also outlines the amazing draft Reese just had last season:
As Super Bowl champs, the Giants will select last in every round in April's draft, which will make Reese's job more challenging than in 2007, when he scored what now looks like a bumper crop: cornerback Aaron Ross (first round), receiver Steve Smith (second), defensive lineman Jay Alford (third), linebacker Zak DeOssie (fourth), tight end Kevin Boss (fifth), offensive lineman Adam Koets (sixth), defensive back Michael Johnson (seventh), and running back Ahmad Bradshaw (seventh). Each player made the roster, with most making meaningful contributions.
that really is incredible that he got contributions from just about every one of his draft choices last season... i can't remember the last time that's happened... let's hope next year's draft picks are even half as good as the ones he got this past season.
article points out the pending bigname FA's as well:
To market, to market: Samuel in prime spot among free agent cornerbacks
While the picture could be altered over the next 2-3 weeks as teams assign franchise tags, reach extensions with would-be free agents, or cut players, here is a snapshot look at how the unrestricted free agent market is shaping up at each position:
QUARTERBACK: Teams looking for a solid backup who could challenge for the top job will find help, as Todd Collins (Redskins), Daunte Culpepper (Raiders), Rex Grossman (Bears), and Billy Volek (Chargers) are set to hit the market.
RUNNING BACK: Michael Turner (Chargers), who drew interest as a restricted free agent last offseason, is the headliner of a strong crop that also includes Jamal Lewis (Browns), Chris Brown (Titans), Justin Fargas (Raiders), Ron Dayne (Texans), and Mewelde Moore (Vikings).
TIGHT ENDS: The Eagles acted fast in placing the franchise tag on L.J. Smith, perhaps realizing there wasn't much else out there. Eric Johnson (Saints) and Ben Troupe (Titans) should draw interest.
OFFENSIVE LINE: The Panthers are expected to keep tackle Jordan Gross off the market, but as usual, there will be plenty to choose from. Flozell Adams (Cowboys), Max Starks (Steelers), Sean Locklear (Seahawks), and Travelle Wharton (Panthers) are top tackles. Alan Faneca (Steelers), Jamar Nesbit (Saints), Stacy Andrews (Bengals), Jacob Bell (Titans), Justin Smiley (49ers), Jake Scott (Colts), Ryan Lilja (Colts), and Rex Hadnot (Dolphins) headline the exploding guard market, and Casey Wiegmann (Chiefs) leads the center charge.
DEFENSIVE LINE: Jared Allen (Chiefs) would boost any pass rush, but it's hard to imagine Kansas City would let him get away. Albert Haynesworth (Titans) is also expected to get franchised. Justin Smith (Bengals) and Antwan Odom (Titans) are pass rushers who could help, while teams looking for more bulk might eye Corey Williams (Packers), Tommy Kelly (Raiders), and Marques Douglas (49ers). Clubs running the 3-4 in need of a nose tackle will have Isaac Sopoaga (49ers) and Ethan Kelley (Browns) on their radar.
LINEBACKER: The Cardinals aren't likely to let Karlos Dansby slip away, but he would be a top target if he's available. Terrell Suggs (Ravens), Calvin Pace (Cardinals), Victor Hobson (Jets), and Clark Haggans (Steelers) should draw attention among pass-rush, edge-setting teams that run the 3-4, while Lance Briggs (Bears), Landon Johnson (Bengals), and Demorrio Williams (Falcons) are more 4-3 types in that they are a bit lighter and quicker.
DEFENSIVE BACK: Asante Samuel (Patriots) headlines a weak cornerback crop (assuming Oakland's Nnamdi Asomugha and Seattle's Marcus Trufant get the franchise tag), which puts him in a position of considerable leverage. Nickel backs like Drayton Florence (Chargers) and Randall Gay (Patriots) are in a nice spot because of the lack of quality corners on the market. Chris Crocker (Falcons), Madieu Williams (Bengals), and Ken Hamlin (Cowboys) are safeties who should draw interest.
SPECIALISTS: Josh Brown (Seahawks) and Jason Elam (Broncos) are top kickers, for those looking to address that area.
VDesai@ 2/12/2008 10:46 AM
Giants re-sign Tynes- 5 yrs, 7 mil. Don't get two concerned with the years though, as they've probably structured it in such fashion that the last few years are cuttable with few cap implications. Might as well bring him back. Not worth spending 3 mil per on a kicker just get an upgrade (probably what Brown or Elam would cost).
GKFv2@ 2/12/2008 1:07 PM
Yep. Tynes has big game experience and is sort of a cult Giants-icon now for that Packers kick so it's smart to keep him around. Don't break up the chemistry.
VDesai@ 2/12/2008 1:14 PM
Feagles will be back next year too, according to Arthur Staple!
TMS@ 2/12/2008 4:38 PM
Posted by GKFv2:
Yep. Tynes has big game experience and is sort of a cult Giants-icon now for that Packers kick so it's smart to keep him around. Don't break up the chemistry.
i thought he stunk & almost singlehandedly was the reason we missed out on the Super Bowl... i don't know why they would bring him back to be honest.
TMS@ 2/12/2008 4:38 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Feagles will be back next year too, according to Arthur Staple!
that's good news at least... i like Feagles.
VDesai@ 2/12/2008 4:46 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by GKFv2:
Yep. Tynes has big game experience and is sort of a cult Giants-icon now for that Packers kick so it's smart to keep him around. Don't break up the chemistry.
i thought he stunk & almost singlehandedly was the reason we missed out on the Super Bowl... i don't know why they would bring him back to be honest.
He was 23/27 and eventually did make the kick. He's not great shakes, but kickers are a pretty transient sort. Even the best guys don't often replicate the great performance- so its no use paying a ton for them. And its also a headache trying to sort from a bunch of rookie kickers who might useful.
Tynes comes cheap and cuttable. If he can make 80% again so be it.
GKFv2@ 2/12/2008 5:06 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by GKFv2:
Yep. Tynes has big game experience and is sort of a cult Giants-icon now for that Packers kick so it's smart to keep him around. Don't break up the chemistry.
i thought he stunk & almost singlehandedly was the reason we missed out on the Super Bowl... i don't know why they would bring him back to be honest.
He was 23/27 and eventually did make the kick. He's not great shakes, but kickers are a pretty transient sort. Even the best guys don't often replicate the great performance- so its no use paying a ton for them. And its also a headache trying to sort from a bunch of rookie kickers who might useful.
Tynes comes cheap and cuttable. If he can make 80% again so be it.
Basically summed it all up.
Also, happy to see Feagles back as well.
TMS@ 2/12/2008 5:12 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by GKFv2:
Yep. Tynes has big game experience and is sort of a cult Giants-icon now for that Packers kick so it's smart to keep him around. Don't break up the chemistry.
i thought he stunk & almost singlehandedly was the reason we missed out on the Super Bowl... i don't know why they would bring him back to be honest.
He was 23/27 and eventually did make the kick. He's not great shakes, but kickers are a pretty transient sort. Even the best guys don't often replicate the great performance- so its no use paying a ton for them. And its also a headache trying to sort from a bunch of rookie kickers who might useful.
Tynes comes cheap and cuttable. If he can make 80% again so be it.
every time i see Tynes get up to kick the ball i get hives, just like when i see RW McQuarters dropping back in pass coverage... hell, i'd almost rather see Gary Anderson come out of retirement & kick for us next year... the only thing he does well that i like is getting distance on his kickoffs.
VDesai@ 2/12/2008 5:20 PM
Yeah but bottomline he hit 23/27- the Giants will take that without regards to a few fans getting the heebeejeebies when he comes out to kick :). There weren't too many kickers in the league that outperformed the Scotsmen last year.
