Posted by TMS:
Joba was the most dominant reliever in baseball since he got called up... minor league ratings don't amount to much but best guess projections... when u see a kid like Joba light up the league the way he did, there's going to be a ton of teams out there interested in him... when u see a hyped up kid like Carlos Gomez come up & post poor #'s, it doesn't do much for his trade value.
i never said Gomez was a bust, only that you rate his supposed value way too highly... when GM's trade their best players, they usually are looking for kids that either have dominated at the minor league level, or who have proven on the major league level that they're more than just hype, 2 things that Gomez has failed to do up to this point & that Joba has already shown.
this is why i say the Mets have no chance of getting a guy like Johan or Kazmir unless you're willing to give up a Reyes or Wright, which your team would obviously be averse to do... if u really think u can get a Santana or Kazmir for a couple of B level prospects or completely unproven supposed "blue chippers", that's your prerogative... it's not reality tho... when those 2 guys get traded, their respective teams are going to be looking for names like Ellsbury, Bucholtz, Lester, Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Cano, Reyes, Wang, etc. in return... guys like Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber, Mike Pelfrey, Aaron Heilmann, Lastings Milledge, etc. aren't gonna get it done, believe that.
Like i said before, I know you think all the Mets prospects are crap, but GMs and people involved in baseball don't agree. I think they may know a bit more than you, so thanks for playing.
i didn't say your guys were crap... i said they were overrated... i guess ur incapable of distinguishing the difference there... & we'll see how much value your prospects can get back in a trade... ask just about any GM in baseball & i'm willing to bet you any amount of cash that they rank the Yankees top 3 pitching prospects higher than anyone you have in your system.
Posted by TMS:
i didn't say your guys were crap... i said they were overrated... i guess ur incapable of distinguishing the difference there... & we'll see how much value your prospects can get back in a trade... ask just about any GM in baseball & i'm willing to bet you any amount of cash that they rank the Yankees top 3 pitching prospects higher than anyone you have in your system.
We know you have MUCH better pitching prospects than us. We know this. We understand. We get it.
Injuries can happen too. See Izzy, Wilson and Pulsipher.
convince ur friend here of that... i'm just telling it like it is... why u guys gotta get so defensive when i say your prospects are overrated when they are?
of course injuries can happen... that's true for anyone, including Santana... what's that go to do w/this discussion?
Posted by TMS:
convince ur friend here of that... i'm just telling it like it is... why u guys gotta get so defensive when i say your prospects are overrated when they are?
of course injuries can happen... that's true for anyone, including Santana... what's that go to do w/this discussion?
I'm not defensive, I know exactly how good and how bad our prospects are. One thing I do know is that our prospects are very young and there is room for a lot of improvement. One player I do believe in is Pelfrey. He has great stuff, the problem is his confidence on the ML level is not where it needs to be and it causes him to be wild. IF he can overcome that, he will be a really good pitcher. I really like Gomez too because I LOVE speed and defense. Milledge scares me because of his defense. At the plate, who knows, could be average, good or really good. Nobody really knows there but the reason I would deal him is because of his defense, nothing else. Fernando Martinez, Mulvey, Guerra, I haven't seen so I can't comment. We just have a lot of unknowns and nobody really knows how good they will be because they are soooo young. Not every prospect comes up immediately and dominates like Joba. Once again, you're spoiled being a Yankees fan because you have sooooo many new players coming and going over the years that eventually you hit the jackpot, landing 3 guys who come up right away and do very well. Thats not normal reality and you're unfairly judging the Mets prospects because they didn't come up right away and dominate.
how the hell am i spoiled being a Yankees fan when it comes to having top notch prospects coming up from the farm system when we get one of the last picks in every round of the draft because of the team's consistently good record year after year? a crop of young talent like this comes along once every 10 years or so w/this team... it happened w/the class of Jeter, Jorge, Mo & Pettitte, & from the looks of it, it's happening again w/the class of Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Cano, Wang & Melky... this doesn't happen by accident or chance like you seem to think it does.
the Yankees made very smart decisions over the past several years in the draft & held onto all the prospects worth a damn (Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Melky, Cano, Wang), & got rid of those that weren't (Brad Halsey, Ruben Rivera, D'Angelo Jimenez, Adrian Hernandez, etc.)... for u to dismiss this as just a "it had to happen someday" excuse is ridiculous, because you're right, it's NOT normal reality.
many teams, including the Yankees & Mets, oftentimes sacrifice future potential for the here & now... luckily for Yankee fans, Cashman didn't budge when just about every team that engaged us in trade talks over the past few years were asking for the Yankees' top prospects... now they're in a position to go out & get a guy like Santana if they want to because they have the young talent to get the deal done... like i told u before, the Mets can do it too if they're willing to give up Reyes... u have to give up top notch quality to get top notch quality... prospects who come w/major question marks like Pelfrey, Milledge, Gomez, etc. no longer qualify as top notch quality that could get you a guy like Santana... that's the whole point of this discussion.
well, lets get back to the mets instead of arguing the never ending comparison debate of yankees vs. mets. well, the latest rumor is that the mets are after freddy garcia who had an awful year last year. he took a sholocking everytime he is out there. however, he pithced in a hitters' park and was inconsistently in the lineup. he had good years before and is still fairly young so it is a risk. not to mention that he had shoulder surgery and won't be ready until june. is he worth the risk with the season he had last year? i would do it if it is the last option only.
Omar is always looking for these low-risk high-reward deals. He wouldn't be ready until late in the season. If its cheap, why not. But I still think we should be looking for another SP that will be ready at the beginning of the year.
if i were u guys i'd be targetting someone like Jon Garland... he's an innings eater, something u guys desperately need... u could probably get him for a package of our prospects & he could actually help shore up your starting rotation for the 2nd half of the season... u shouldn't even be looking at a guy like Garcia until the Allstar break when he's close to being ready to pitch again.
Posted by TMS:
how the hell am i spoiled being a Yankees fan when it comes to having top notch prospects coming up from the farm system when we get one of the last picks in every round of the draft because of the team's consistently good record year after year? a crop of young talent like this comes along once every 10 years or so w/this team... it happened w/the class of Jeter, Jorge, Mo & Pettitte, & from the looks of it, it's happening again w/the class of Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Cano, Wang & Melky... this doesn't happen by accident or chance like you seem to think it does.
the Yankees made very smart decisions over the past several years in the draft & held onto all the prospects worth a damn (Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Melky, Cano, Wang), & got rid of those that weren't (Brad Halsey, Ruben Rivera, D'Angelo Jimenez, Adrian Hernandez, etc.)... for u to dismiss this as just a "it had to happen someday" excuse is ridiculous, because you're right, it's NOT normal reality.
many teams, including the Yankees & Mets, oftentimes sacrifice future potential for the here & now... luckily for Yankee fans, Cashman didn't budge when just about every team that engaged us in trade talks over the past few years were asking for the Yankees' top prospects... now they're in a position to go out & get a guy like Santana if they want to because they have the young talent to get the deal done... like i told u before, the Mets can do it too if they're willing to give up Reyes... u have to give up top notch quality to get top notch quality... prospects who come w/major question marks like Pelfrey, Milledge, Gomez, etc. no longer qualify as top notch quality that could get you a guy like Santana... that's the whole point of this discussion.
Not only are you spoiled, but you're high now too. money money money. The Yankees promise these players boat loads of money to sign and they end up miraculously falling to them in the draft. Duh. They've been doing that on the international market for the longest time too. The Yankee way...money money money money money money....money
Well to be fair, it's also been the Red Sox way now too. money...
Posted by TMS:
if i were u guys i'd be targetting someone like Jon Garland... he's an innings eater, something u guys desperately need... u could probably get him for a package of our prospects & he could actually help shore up your starting rotation for the 2nd half of the season... u shouldn't even be looking at a guy like Garcia until the Allstar break when he's close to being ready to pitch again.
I think Blanton is a better option and more realistic to happen if we go that route.
sorry, i didn't even realize Garland had already been traded to the halos... my bad.
Blanton's a very solid alternative, but i think u'll have to give up more to get him... u might be better off just targetting a FA like Lieber & saving ur young kids to make a move at the trade deadline & give them a chance to build up their trade value during the 1st half of the 08 season
[Edited by - TMS on 11-25-2007 4:59 PM]
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:
how the hell am i spoiled being a Yankees fan when it comes to having top notch prospects coming up from the farm system when we get one of the last picks in every round of the draft because of the team's consistently good record year after year? a crop of young talent like this comes along once every 10 years or so w/this team... it happened w/the class of Jeter, Jorge, Mo & Pettitte, & from the looks of it, it's happening again w/the class of Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Cano, Wang & Melky... this doesn't happen by accident or chance like you seem to think it does.
the Yankees made very smart decisions over the past several years in the draft & held onto all the prospects worth a damn (Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Melky, Cano, Wang), & got rid of those that weren't (Brad Halsey, Ruben Rivera, D'Angelo Jimenez, Adrian Hernandez, etc.)... for u to dismiss this as just a "it had to happen someday" excuse is ridiculous, because you're right, it's NOT normal reality.
many teams, including the Yankees & Mets, oftentimes sacrifice future potential for the here & now... luckily for Yankee fans, Cashman didn't budge when just about every team that engaged us in trade talks over the past few years were asking for the Yankees' top prospects... now they're in a position to go out & get a guy like Santana if they want to because they have the young talent to get the deal done... like i told u before, the Mets can do it too if they're willing to give up Reyes... u have to give up top notch quality to get top notch quality... prospects who come w/major question marks like Pelfrey, Milledge, Gomez, etc. no longer qualify as top notch quality that could get you a guy like Santana... that's the whole point of this discussion.
Not only are you spoiled, but you're high now too. money money money. The Yankees promise these players boat loads of money to sign and they end up miraculously falling to them in the draft. Duh. They've been doing that on the international market for the longest time too. The Yankee way...money money money money money money....money
Well to be fair, it's also been the Red Sox way now too. money...
the classic copout excuse... u can't even give credit to the Yankees for knowing what talent to hold onto & what talent they could afford to lose... i guess any fan of a team that's dumb enough to trade away their top stud in the making in Kazmir for a pathetic joke like Victor Zambrano can't be expected to see the light here.
Posted by TMS:
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:
how the hell am i spoiled being a Yankees fan when it comes to having top notch prospects coming up from the farm system when we get one of the last picks in every round of the draft because of the team's consistently good record year after year? a crop of young talent like this comes along once every 10 years or so w/this team... it happened w/the class of Jeter, Jorge, Mo & Pettitte, & from the looks of it, it's happening again w/the class of Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Cano, Wang & Melky... this doesn't happen by accident or chance like you seem to think it does.
the Yankees made very smart decisions over the past several years in the draft & held onto all the prospects worth a damn (Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Melky, Cano, Wang), & got rid of those that weren't (Brad Halsey, Ruben Rivera, D'Angelo Jimenez, Adrian Hernandez, etc.)... for u to dismiss this as just a "it had to happen someday" excuse is ridiculous, because you're right, it's NOT normal reality.
many teams, including the Yankees & Mets, oftentimes sacrifice future potential for the here & now... luckily for Yankee fans, Cashman didn't budge when just about every team that engaged us in trade talks over the past few years were asking for the Yankees' top prospects... now they're in a position to go out & get a guy like Santana if they want to because they have the young talent to get the deal done... like i told u before, the Mets can do it too if they're willing to give up Reyes... u have to give up top notch quality to get top notch quality... prospects who come w/major question marks like Pelfrey, Milledge, Gomez, etc. no longer qualify as top notch quality that could get you a guy like Santana... that's the whole point of this discussion.
Not only are you spoiled, but you're high now too. money money money. The Yankees promise these players boat loads of money to sign and they end up miraculously falling to them in the draft. Duh. They've been doing that on the international market for the longest time too. The Yankee way...money money money money money money....money
Well to be fair, it's also been the Red Sox way now too. money...
the classic copout excuse... u can't even give credit to the Yankees for knowing what talent to hold onto & what talent they could afford to lose... i guess any fan of a team that's dumb enough to trade away their top stud in the making in Kazmir for a pathetic joke like Victor Zambrano can't be expected to see the light here.
I say do the math and it's obvious who's been making better decisions since the Yankees and Mets have been on planet earth together.
Oh' and no dis to the Mets.
u guys could maybe make a run at D-Train... he had a bad season & his #'s are clearly declining, but he's still young & his personality is tailor made for the bright lights of the big city... i personally think he'd flourish playing for either NY team.
Bartolo Colon is also out there as a FA, but he's injury prone & u guys have enough to deal w/in Pedro in that regard.
[Edited by - TMS on 11-25-2007 6:33 PM]
Posted by TMS:
Posted by majorleads:
Posted by TMS:
how the hell am i spoiled being a Yankees fan when it comes to having top notch prospects coming up from the farm system when we get one of the last picks in every round of the draft because of the team's consistently good record year after year? a crop of young talent like this comes along once every 10 years or so w/this team... it happened w/the class of Jeter, Jorge, Mo & Pettitte, & from the looks of it, it's happening again w/the class of Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Cano, Wang & Melky... this doesn't happen by accident or chance like you seem to think it does.
the Yankees made very smart decisions over the past several years in the draft & held onto all the prospects worth a damn (Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Melky, Cano, Wang), & got rid of those that weren't (Brad Halsey, Ruben Rivera, D'Angelo Jimenez, Adrian Hernandez, etc.)... for u to dismiss this as just a "it had to happen someday" excuse is ridiculous, because you're right, it's NOT normal reality.
many teams, including the Yankees & Mets, oftentimes sacrifice future potential for the here & now... luckily for Yankee fans, Cashman didn't budge when just about every team that engaged us in trade talks over the past few years were asking for the Yankees' top prospects... now they're in a position to go out & get a guy like Santana if they want to because they have the young talent to get the deal done... like i told u before, the Mets can do it too if they're willing to give up Reyes... u have to give up top notch quality to get top notch quality... prospects who come w/major question marks like Pelfrey, Milledge, Gomez, etc. no longer qualify as top notch quality that could get you a guy like Santana... that's the whole point of this discussion.
Not only are you spoiled, but you're high now too. money money money. The Yankees promise these players boat loads of money to sign and they end up miraculously falling to them in the draft. Duh. They've been doing that on the international market for the longest time too. The Yankee way...money money money money money money....money
Well to be fair, it's also been the Red Sox way now too. money...
the classic copout excuse... u can't even give credit to the Yankees for knowing what talent to hold onto & what talent they could afford to lose... i guess any fan of a team that's dumb enough to trade away their top stud in the making in Kazmir for a pathetic joke like Victor Zambrano can't be expected to see the light here.
Just take your 300 million dollar payroll and all of your bought prospects back on over to the Yankee forum. If you want to continue here babbling about the boring Yankees, then fine by me, but don't whine and complain when we bring up the fact you guys are all about outspending everyone.
lol... if u can't take a dose of reality then you have no business posting on a forum at all... u have failed to present any logical evidence or counterpoints to offset anything i've said... "money money money"... that's your feeble little comeback to reason to yourself how the Yankees deserve nothing but disdain in your pathetically bitter life... i feel sorry for you dude... even a Boston hater like me can acknowledge & respect them for how they built up their team & managed to win their championships this decade... this is why fans like you will never give credit to anyone other than your own team when you achieve success, & then come over to every Yankee forum on the internet boasting about how you're the rulers of the world everytime your team gets off to a fast start in the regular season against pisspoor competition in a pathetically weak league... "boohoo! please go away & stop bothering me on the Mets thread!" gimme a break dude.
calm down you two. maybe you can make another sticky thread called "mets vs. yankees" and let it out. anyway, tms maybe right that we might deal for d train. for some reason, i don't think we will give up too much for him since his trade value is at an all time low. he had one bad year but when he is on, he is an ace. it helps that the marlins are our consistent trade partners so it is doable.
sorry jazz... i'll stop w/the trashtalk on this thread.
D Train would be a good pickup for u guys w/high potential reward potential... i'm sure the Marlins won't give him up for crap, so u will have to give up a good prospect or 2, but i think at this point u guys need to make a move somewhere & address the rotation.
well, tms, i would peg willis as a last option. who knows? it might be time for a marlin fire sale. however, garland could be more attainable. the problem is that i don't know what kind of status is the oakland team is currently in. are they trying to make the playoffs or are they just going to blow up the team and go young?
Posted by jazz74:
well, tms, i would peg willis as a last option. who knows? it might be time for a marlin fire sale. however, garland could be more attainable. the problem is that i don't know what kind of status is the oakland team is currently in. are they trying to make the playoffs or are they just going to blow up the team and go young?
i mean dan haran instead of garland. my bad.
