Off Topic · OT: Obama/McCain - Doesn't Matter (page 3)

Bonnie,

engaging with your dustbuster is a more fulfilling discussion than with the ZombieBoy.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by LongIslandKnicksFan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Do you feel (Long island) that there was any difference in the country (or the world actually) under President Clinton's vs. Bush's leadership?

No, I believe that there is an agenda to be carried out each year and the government puts in whoever best fits a good speaker or someone who they know they can control.

So Bill would have carried out this Iraq War (and without any planning) and would have had these huge tax cuts for the rich had he been allowed to serve a third term?

Bill and Hillary are crooks! They are now and have always been crooks. Research more into them and their dirty tactics. Not good people. Liars. Watch on YouTube "The Video Hillary Clinton Doesn't Want You To See" and you'll see why they are crooks and it's backed up with video and audio evidence and facts!

Posted by LongIslandKnicksFan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by LongIslandKnicksFan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Do you feel (Long island) that there was any difference in the country (or the world actually) under President Clinton's vs. Bush's leadership?

No, I believe that there is an agenda to be carried out each year and the government puts in whoever best fits a good speaker or someone who they know they can control.

So Bill would have carried out this Iraq War (and without any planning) and would have had these huge tax cuts for the rich had he been allowed to serve a third term?

Bill and Hillary are crooks! They are now and have always been crooks. Research more into them and their dirty tactics. Not good people. Liars. Watch on YouTube "The Video Hillary Clinton Doesn't Want You To See" and you'll see why they are crooks and it's backed up with video and audio evidence and facts!

You're answering a question I didn't ask. I asked nothing about whether they were crooks.

I was in Manhatten a few weeks ago and an Armenian cab driver wanted to talk politics. He really wanted to give me his view about Democrats, and he said he liked Clinton:

"Clintons, they a lie, they are liars, but they get things done!"

I gave him a nice tip as the moment of clarity was good.

This guy could not care less if she was a crook, at b!tch, or he a womenizer. His perception was they got things done.

Long ago I heard a quote: A great president does not have to be a good man, and a great man need not make a good president. Before Carter lost his mind, he was a good man, but an awful president. One might say after learning about Roosevelts affair with his secretary (look at Ellenor and you understand) he might be a great president and not a great man.

Maybe its time we put a lying cheating nasty man/women in the position and not care, so long as he is productive.

I like Obama. Just not sure he'll get it done. Regan was not even in the room for half his presidency and got it done. Im not saying I agree with all he did, but he was effective.

Posted by Nalod:

I was in Manhatten a few weeks ago and an Armenian cab driver wanted to talk politics. He really wanted to give me his view about Democrats, and he said he liked Clinton:

"Clintons, they a lie, they are liars, but they get things done!"

I gave him a nice tip as the moment of clarity was good.

This guy could not care less if she was a crook, at b!tch, or he a womenizer. His perception was they got things done.

Long ago I heard a quote: A great president does not have to be a good man, and a great man need not make a good president. Before Carter lost his mind, he was a good man, but an awful president. One might say after learning about Roosevelts affair with his secretary (look at Ellenor and you understand) he might be a great president and not a great man.

Maybe its time we put a lying cheating nasty man/women in the position and not care, so long as he is productive.

I like Obama. Just not sure he'll get it done. Regan was not even in the room for half his presidency and got it done. Im not saying I agree with all he did, but he was effective.

Nalod,

Clinton got things done if you aren't aware Bill Clinton can't run for President again. Hillary has achieved what exactly so your notion is empty statement at best.

Carter is a good man matter of fact he's too good of a man to be President of the United States. To this day Carter is working on Humantarian issues just this month he was in New Orleans speaking with Katrina refugees.

Reagan was effective in what exactly other then turning back the clock on government regulation/civil rights/social programs and falsley proclaiming that he brought down the Soviet Union?

A lying/cheating/nasty President are you familar with American History? Actual effectiveness of a President falls to the waste side while artificial issues remain at the forefront for selecting a president.

Bitty,

Bill was not running?

Reaganomics moved things forward. At a price.

He put the petal to the metal and stared down the soviet war machine more than once and found them empty. Thats what bought it down when he said it.

Im not gonna argue electing a scumbag for president, my point was more that we tend to elect whom we like or falls within our values (the jesus states in particular) rather than whom we think is most effective. Other countries don't care about whom its leader gets blown on the side, or steals a few mil here or there.

Last time I looked we have an idiot bafoon in the white house cuz he was more personable than Al Gore (Gore won, but W's "Folks speak" got him close enough to steal it).

This is an exercise of thought not to defend Reagans admin.

Yeah, he bashed down the unions which proved to be inflationary and wasteful. Sure it protected workers rights but it lost too many jobs to begin with. Yeah he b!tch slapped the air traffic controllers, sold blow to pay for things, and had George Herbert as his VP. Also he let the right wing religious zelots in the front door and they have not left.

Find a flawless presidency.

Pure democracy is an illusion for the middle class.

Posted by Nalod:

Bitty,

Bill was not running?

Reaganomics moved things forward. At a price.

He put the petal to the metal and stared down the soviet war machine more than once and found them empty. Thats what bought it down when he said it.

Im not gonna argue electing a scumbag for president, my point was more that we tend to elect whom we like or falls within our values (the jesus states in particular) rather than whom we think is most effective. Other countries don't care about whom its leader gets blown on the side, or steals a few mil here or there.

Last time I looked we have an idiot bafoon in the white house cuz he was more personable than Al Gore (Gore won, but W's "Folks speak" got him close enough to steal it).

This is an exercise of thought not to defend Reagans admin.

Yeah, he bashed down the unions which proved to be inflationary and wasteful. Sure it protected workers rights but it lost too many jobs to begin with. Yeah he b!tch slapped the air traffic controllers, sold blow to pay for things, and had George Herbert as his VP. Also he let the right wing religious zelots in the front door and they have not left.

Find a flawless presidency.

Pure democracy is an illusion for the middle class.

There is no such thing as flawless Presidency because you cannot please everyone. But Reagan's legacy is full of sugar-coating and misconceptions. All I ask that people be informed and speak accordingly. The acts that he authorized during his Presidency would have landed an average person in Prison for a long-time. So yea his Presidency goes a little bit father then just a few flaws.

What would have landed him in prison? I forget.

Posted by Nalod:

What would have landed him in prison? I forget.

I could through a list but to start off with look up the Truth Commission papers for Guatemala and El Salvador.

Posted by LongIslandKnicksFan:

Yes. I support anyone who is for the constitution and civil liberties. Ron has some GREAT ideas and he has never flip-flopped on issues. His voting record has always be consistant. You?

what a joke...you mean the guy that is anti-abortion, anti-gay rights, anti-immigrant rights, anti affirmative action...yea, he's the right choice.

And don't count on the Republicans being defeated on Nov. 7, with your vote or the fixing of the vote. Despot Bush's Rasputin, Karl Rove, may pull an October Surprise. Another 9-11, anyone?

Finally, if Despot Bush & Co. are allowed to remain in office, what makes you think they will leave on Jan. 20, 2009?

We the people have the power to do what the Declaration tells us we must do, if only we would exercise it. We don't have to resort to armed rebellion, either. We can bring the country to a halt with national strikes. A few of those and the leaders of Congress, be they Democrats or Republicans, will get the message, march into the White House and tell Bush, Cheney et al that it's over and hand them over to the US marshals to be, as former Ambassador Joe Wilson put it, "frog-marched" to the nearest jail cell to await trial for their crimes.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by LongIslandKnicksFan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by LongIslandKnicksFan:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Do you feel (Long island) that there was any difference in the country (or the world actually) under President Clinton's vs. Bush's leadership?

No, I believe that there is an agenda to be carried out each year and the government puts in whoever best fits a good speaker or someone who they know they can control.

So Bill would have carried out this Iraq War (and without any planning) and would have had these huge tax cuts for the rich had he been allowed to serve a third term?

Bill and Hillary are crooks! They are now and have always been crooks. Research more into them and their dirty tactics. Not good people. Liars. Watch on YouTube "The Video Hillary Clinton Doesn't Want You To See" and you'll see why they are crooks and it's backed up with video and audio evidence and facts!

You're answering a question I didn't ask. I asked nothing about whether they were crooks.

Just stating a fact here.

Posted by playa2:

And don't count on the Republicans being defeated on Nov. 7, with your vote or the fixing of the vote. Despot Bush's Rasputin, Karl Rove, may pull an October Surprise. Another 9-11, anyone?

Finally, if Despot Bush & Co. are allowed to remain in office, what makes you think they will leave on Jan. 20, 2009?

We the people have the power to do what the Declaration tells us we must do, if only we would exercise it. We don't have to resort to armed rebellion, either. We can bring the country to a halt with national strikes. A few of those and the leaders of Congress, be they Democrats or Republicans, will get the message, march into the White House and tell Bush, Cheney et al that it's over and hand them over to the US marshals to be, as former Ambassador Joe Wilson put it, "frog-marched" to the nearest jail cell to await trial for their crimes.

I don't think Obama will lose. Do you know the stock market goes up the next day if Obama becomes president?

Posted by BigC:

Posted by playa2:

And don't count on the Republicans being defeated on Nov. 7, with your vote or the fixing of the vote. Despot Bush's Rasputin, Karl Rove, may pull an October Surprise. Another 9-11, anyone?

Finally, if Despot Bush & Co. are allowed to remain in office, what makes you think they will leave on Jan. 20, 2009?

We the people have the power to do what the Declaration tells us we must do, if only we would exercise it. We don't have to resort to armed rebellion, either. We can bring the country to a halt with national strikes. A few of those and the leaders of Congress, be they Democrats or Republicans, will get the message, march into the White House and tell Bush, Cheney et al that it's over and hand them over to the US marshals to be, as former Ambassador Joe Wilson put it, "frog-marched" to the nearest jail cell to await trial for their crimes.

I don't think Obama will lose. Do you know the stock market goes up the next day if Obama becomes president?

Why is that or why do you say that?

Posted by Silverfuel:

Posted by BigC:

Posted by playa2:

And don't count on the Republicans being defeated on Nov. 7, with your vote or the fixing of the vote. Despot Bush's Rasputin, Karl Rove, may pull an October Surprise. Another 9-11, anyone?

Finally, if Despot Bush & Co. are allowed to remain in office, what makes you think they will leave on Jan. 20, 2009?

We the people have the power to do what the Declaration tells us we must do, if only we would exercise it. We don't have to resort to armed rebellion, either. We can bring the country to a halt with national strikes. A few of those and the leaders of Congress, be they Democrats or Republicans, will get the message, march into the White House and tell Bush, Cheney et al that it's over and hand them over to the US marshals to be, as former Ambassador Joe Wilson put it, "frog-marched" to the nearest jail cell to await trial for their crimes.

I don't think Obama will lose. Do you know the stock market goes up the next day if Obama becomes president?

Why is that or why do you say that?

Historically the stock market has done much better under Dem than Rep Presidents (and Democrats are foolish to have never mentioned this.) That said, no one knows what will happen on any *one* day.

Posted by Silverfuel:

Posted by BigC:

Posted by playa2:

And don't count on the Republicans being defeated on Nov. 7, with your vote or the fixing of the vote. Despot Bush's Rasputin, Karl Rove, may pull an October Surprise. Another 9-11, anyone?

Finally, if Despot Bush & Co. are allowed to remain in office, what makes you think they will leave on Jan. 20, 2009?

We the people have the power to do what the Declaration tells us we must do, if only we would exercise it. We don't have to resort to armed rebellion, either. We can bring the country to a halt with national strikes. A few of those and the leaders of Congress, be they Democrats or Republicans, will get the message, march into the White House and tell Bush, Cheney et al that it's over and hand them over to the US marshals to be, as former Ambassador Joe Wilson put it, "frog-marched" to the nearest jail cell to await trial for their crimes.

I don't think Obama will lose. Do you know the stock market goes up the next day if Obama becomes president?

Why is that or why do you say that?

Bonn1997 answered part of it for me.

If Obama wins Americans and people in the world will feel that good things will happen in the future. If he is nominated the very next day after his announcement you can expect the stock market to shoot up. So this will have an effect on investment because people feel the economy will get better with Obama. New hope. Because of that hope of "change" investment and everything else will jump up. Stocks are based on people hoping things will get good or better. Because it is Obama and not someone else or a republican there will be an increase in the stock market. If Obama wins you will see exactly what I am talking about. Oh and buy some stock.... lol Obama does not have to do anything because stocks are base high expectations of people

[Edited by - BigC on 08-30-2008 02:50 AM]

Posted by martin:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by LongIslandKnicksFan:

The better question is what flip-flopping has Ron Paul done? Here is your answer for Obama:

I don't see any flip flopping there. Flip flopping is where you take one position and then reverse it. There, he's just making compromises rather than seeing everything in black and white.

agreed. I don't know more people don't understand this.

It's true. All politicians have to bend a little to reach the vote. There is not too much difference in what he's saying in this video. And I think a politician has a right to 'evolve' in their policies, if that's what it was meant to do.

Posted by LongIslandKnicksFan:

I'd like neither to "win". All the President is, is a puppet who makes speeches. The neo-cons will continue to do what they need to do whats right for them and their big business. It's always been about money, power and greed. We live in a shitty world man. I would have loved to see a constitutionalist in office like Ron Paul but he doesn't go with the agenda of corrupt government so therefore he won't "win".

All pretty fascinating the information you put fourth, and makes one really think about what the hell we are voting for, but maybe there is no such thing as a good Government? Maybe there can never be one, because the power is too big to handle for any one person. It's a big ass country man. You can practically take every single person in the united states and pack us all in the smallest state. All 290 to 300 million of us all. And that's what makes it so big and awesome!

I find the title of the book 'Obama Nation' sounding like some kind of gang membership. Sounds very scary if you take it seriously. I already had my doubts about Obama and after thinking very, very hard about it and very, very long about it, I made up my mind that there is nothing to fear that we haven't already feared. Our parents and grandparents went through the same exact things. In some cases, worse then what we fear today.

Posted by LongIslandKnicksFan:

Posted by Silverfuel:

BTW: Please read about Barack Obama. This guy is not one of those 'born with a silver spoon in his mouth' privileged dudes. He worked his way to Columbia and Harvard Law. He did civil rights, taught constitutional law and Public Allies. He isn't a dumbass whose father has powerful friends. I dont think you are being fair about Obama. Are you just bitter that Ron Paul lost to McCain?

Silver, I do not think you understand. This has all been planned. They want people to think that they have a voice and say in a masked "democracy". Come on man, don't believe me but atleast look into what I am saying. Think about it - last twenty years have been Bush and Clinton. Clinton would bring bullshit as would Obama, McCain, Guiliani.

I find it amazing that people are not supporting Ron Paul, especially since he voted against the Patriot Act, against the war, wants the troops to come as soon as possible, get rid of the IRS, get rid of the Federeal Reserve, etc. Tell me if Obama or McCain have that type of idea. They do not.

It's going to take a long, long time for a independent party to get any kind of momentum in having a chance to ever take the White House and the issues that exist today, will not exist tomorrow, so later, they may not matter as much. Democrat -Republican parties have had the stage since it all started. There should be no surprise why someone like Ron doesn't get much notice.

But I must also say that Obama who will definately bring change, will not only do it as a black man or whoever stands by his side, but he will bring that change for the future Presidents of this country. Do you think we should abolish the Presidency? And come up with a new panel of leaders, with a speaker instead? Something that represents everyone?

Posted by LongIslandKnicksFan:

Posted by BigC:

Posted by LongIslandKnicksFan:

THE OBAMA NATION Leftist Politics and the Cult of Personality

Barack Obama stepped onto the national political stage when the then-Illinois State senator addressed the 2004 Democratic National Convention. Soon after Obama was elected to the U.S. Senate, author Jerome Corsi began researching Obama's personal and political background.

Scrupulously sourced with more than 600 footnotes, THE OBAMA NATION is the result of that research. By tracing Obama's career and influences from his early years in Hawaii and Indonesia, the beginnings of his political career in Chicago, his voting record in the Illinois legislature, his religious training and his adoption of Christianity through to his recent involvement in Kenyan politics, his political advisors and fundraising associates and his meteoric campaign for president, Jerome Corsi shows that an Obama presidency would, in his words, be “a repeat of the failed extremist politics that have characterized and plagued Democratic Party politics since the late 1960s.”

In this stunning and comprehensive new book, the reader will learn about: -Obama's extensive connections with Islam and radical politics, from his father and step-father's Islamic backgrounds, to his Communist and socialist mentors in Hawaii and Chicago, to his long-term and close associations with former Weather Underground heroes William Ayers and Bernadette Dohrn—associations much closer than heretofore revealed by the press
-Barack and Michelle's 20-year-long religious affiliation with the black-liberation theology of former Trinity United Church of Christ Reverend Jeremiah Wright, whose sermons have always been steeped in a rage first expressed by Franz Fanon , Stokely Carmichael and Malcolm X, a rage that Corsi shows has deep meaning for Obama
-Obama's continuing connections with Kenya, the homeland of his father, through his support for the candidacy of Raila Odinga, the radical socialist presidential contender who came to power amid Islamist violence and church burnings
-Obama's involvement in the slum-landlord empire of the Chicago political fixer Tony Rezko, who helped to bankroll Obama's initial campaigns and to purchase of Barack and Michelle's dream-home property.
-the background and techniques of the Obama campaign's cult of personality, including the derivation of the words “hope” and change”
-Obama's far-left domestic policy, his controversial votes on abortion, his history of opposition to the Second Amendment, his determination to raise capital-gains taxes, his impractical plan to achieve universal health care, and his radical plan to tax Americans to fund a global-poverty-reduction program
-Obama's naïve, anti-war, anti-nuclear foreign-policy, predicated on the reduction of the military, the eradication of nuclear weapons and an overconfidence in the power of his personality, as if belief in change alone could somehow transform international politics, achieve nuclear-weapons disarmament and withdrawal from Iraq without adverse consequences, for us, for the Iraqis or for Israel.

Meticulously researched and documented, THE OBAMA NATION is the definitive source for information on why and how Barack Obama must be defeated—not by invective and general attacks, but by detailed arguments that are well-researched and fact-based.

Why he must be defeated?
So you think Obama is a super villain?

Also if it does not matter if it is McCain or Obama where are your footnotes on McCain?
You do realize that not one person is in control of what happens in the U.S or the world right?

[Edited by - BigC on 08-24-2008 1:47 PM]

I reposted that from the Amazon.com information on the book, so those are not my own words. I'm just putting the information out there. All we hear is "change" for the better, "change" for this, "change" for that. How do we know to believe these liars?

You're right, not one person is in control of the world, so why should we put our faces in other peoples businesses? Are we the policemen of the world? Am I the only one that wants to see peace and good people in this country? Am I the only one that wants to see a change in the society since we are American's do NOT question these corrupt politicians? Am I the only sane person who wants everyone to love one another in a community that is away from all the killers? Am I the only person who wants to get away from these morons who go drinking last night, get drunk and use their car as a weapon since they're stupid not to handle their own alcohol level?

I agree about the policing part, but I think we should be involved, if we are to be a part of the league of nations and not some kind of dictatorship that bush and his crony's tried to create.