Off Topic · Has anybody ever fallen for one of these marketing scams? (page 2)

When I ws 16 I bought a John Coltrane album and I spent the next 20 years trying to be a jazz musician. Does that count?

I sold Cutco knives in the summer of 2003, and I could tell you Vector Marketing pulled off a lot of unethical crap on recruits. Such as, telling you that this is highly competitive position and you have to interview today before someone else takes it, or these knives are the best value on the market. I will admit they're good knives, but severely overpriced. And I got pissed off just a week ago when I found out one of my cutco knives started to collect dirt in the metal extension enclosed by the plastic (think bowling ball material) handle. I was told this wasn't going to happened, and now I can't get the dirt out. I have to admit though, it was a very good learning experience. Learned how to sell things that people don't need or want. You also get to learn from others, and get to see some really talented sales people. AllansFan, if got 15 hours a week for a month, you might want to give it a try. Good experience and you can put it on your resume, it shows at least your hustling and giving everything a try, especially when the job market is bad. In case you're interested, just go to any college campus and look for job postings. Or you can just look it up online.

Posted by Nalod:

I feel like a sucker for just reading this story!

Allan, don't feel bad. This is part of your education. I remember in college selling Cutco knives and actually did ok, but was like "WTF is a 20 year old selling knives for!!!"

Last year I bought $500 worth from a neighbor! Great knives btw!!! just hated the process!

Tried telemarketing for a nonprofit. Lasted a day! Hated it! Think the Movie "Boiler Room"!

Wouldn't trade of the experiences. You will sniff BS out much earlier in life. Great story and a good experience!!!!!

Don't worry, Keep working hard and it all comes together! Nothing is easy if its real.

Sales never was or ever will be my thing, and I'm in the business. I'm a waiter. However, I lost my taste for a full sales job when I worked at a place called Shake A Paw, in Hicksville, Long Island, over the Summer. Couldn't handle the dishonesty people were throwing at the customers and I hated being yelled at for actually doing work. Whenever it was dead, I would find some work to do and if even one person were on the sales floor, I would get yelled at, even though I wasn't hired to do that. I was hired to be in charge of the reptile section but they were molding me into a salesman.

I must say, I was doing real well. I sold a miniture bulldog AND an akita to the same family one day and was pretty happy about that. It was something I couldn't handle though. I want to either help animals or educate people about animals. That's why I'm going to school to be a veterinary technician. Not to be a salesman or a marketing person.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Sales never was or ever will be my thing, and I'm in the business. I'm a waiter. However, I lost my taste for a full sales job when I worked at a place called Shake A Paw, in Hicksville, Long Island, over the Summer. Couldn't handle the dishonesty people were throwing at the customers and I hated being yelled at for actually doing work. Whenever it was dead, I would find some work to do and if even one person were on the sales floor, I would get yelled at, even though I wasn't hired to do that. I was hired to be in charge of the reptile section but they were molding me into a salesman.

I must say, I was doing real well. I sold a miniture bulldog AND an akita to the same family one day and was pretty happy about that. It was something I couldn't handle though. I want to either help animals or educate people about animals. That's why I'm going to school to be a veterinary technician. Not to be a salesman or a marketing person.

That sounds good tome, goodluck Allanfan.

Thank you.

Allanfan: This was my first job out of college. I did it for almost 2 years. I can tell you stories you would not beleive. There are actually hundreds of these offices nationwide. All under the umbrella of a main company called Granton Marketing. The offices are run by individuals and ethically are different from location to location. Some lie like it's their job(because it is). Others don't lie(as much) and actually sell pretty good products. But regardless it's an f'd up story. As a young man I was an idiot and did this job for a while, but it wasn't a total loss. I did learn how to sell ice cream to eskimos and came out of my pretty quiet shell and now can't shut up.

But honestly, I can spend weeks telling stories about this company. Weeks!

Posted by 93BUICK:

When I ws 16 I bought a John Coltrane album and I spent the next 20 years trying to be a jazz musician. Does that count?

Posted by Bippity10:

Allanfan: This was my first job out of college. I did it for almost 2 years. I can tell you stories you would not beleive. There are actually hundreds of these offices nationwide. All under the umbrella of a main company called Granton Marketing. The offices are run by individuals and ethically are different from location to location. Some lie like it's their job(because it is). Others don't lie(as much) and actually sell pretty good products. But regardless it's an f'd up story. As a young man I was an idiot and did this job for a while, but it wasn't a total loss. I did learn how to sell ice cream to eskimos and came out of my pretty quiet shell and now can't shut up.

But honestly, I can spend weeks telling stories about this company. Weeks!

What kind of system does Granton Marketing promote? What kind of products were you selling? I am curious, since I had two sales experience similar to Granton Marketing set up. One for Vector Marketing, where I had sell kitchen products, and one for Primerica (a division of Traveler's Group/Citigroup), where I had to sell their financial and insurance products. Both experience showed me how dishonest the business can be, but I did learn a lot from Vector Marketing. At least they gave me some trainings to sell knives, while Primerica provided me with little training. All they told was to keep recruiting other sales rep so I can override their commision, which didn't make sense since there's no commision to be made if no one is selling.

When I worked at Primerica, I couldn't believe how many people were doing this, and how many were being brainwash to thinking they could make 6 figures doing this. The guy who recruited me was like 30 years old, and had been with the system for 5 years. And, I am pretty sure he didn't make more than 100,000 in those 5 year span. In the beginning, I was pretty pissed at him for misleading me, but then after I quit, I felt very sorry for him.

Posted by Hank:

Posted by Bippity10:

Allanfan: This was my first job out of college. I did it for almost 2 years. I can tell you stories you would not beleive. There are actually hundreds of these offices nationwide. All under the umbrella of a main company called Granton Marketing. The offices are run by individuals and ethically are different from location to location. Some lie like it's their job(because it is). Others don't lie(as much) and actually sell pretty good products. But regardless it's an f'd up story. As a young man I was an idiot and did this job for a while, but it wasn't a total loss. I did learn how to sell ice cream to eskimos and came out of my pretty quiet shell and now can't shut up.

But honestly, I can spend weeks telling stories about this company. Weeks!

What kind of system does Granton Marketing promote? What kind of products were you selling? I am curious, since I had two sales experience similar to Granton Marketing set up. One for Vector Marketing, where I had sell kitchen products, and one for Primerica (a division of Traveler's Group/Citigroup), where I had to sell their financial and insurance products. Both experience showed me how dishonest the business can be, but I did learn a lot from Vector Marketing. At least they gave me some trainings to sell knives, while Primerica provided me with little training. All they told was to keep recruiting other sales rep so I can override their commision, which didn't make sense since there's no commision to be made if no one is selling.

When I worked at Primerica, I couldn't believe how many people were doing this, and how many were being brainwash to thinking they could make 6 figures doing this. The guy who recruited me was like 30 years old, and had been with the system for 5 years. And, I am pretty sure he didn't make more than 100,000 in those 5 year span. In the beginning, I was pretty pissed at him for misleading me, but then after I quit, I felt very sorry for him.

1.) System-It's basically a pyramid scheme. There are several products and models but here is the main example. There is a distributor that goes out in the field and sells these discount cards for $20. The seller makes about $9 on that card. The company gets everything else. The seller sells between 30-80 cards per week, depending on the product/territory/deal. There is a "leader" that "manages" a team of sellers. That leader also makes about $9 for every card he sells. If he reaches a weekly goal he gets paid a dollar for every card his team sells. Then there is a manager who runs the individual branch. The branch is incorporated so that Granton does not get sued if the branch does something illegal or unethical. But Granton does supply material help such as accounting/advice etc. The manager pays for all of these services, takes money out of his pocket to pay the "leader" the extra cash when they reach their goals and other incentives. You are told you will make about $7 per card when you become a manager. As a "leader" this is how they keep you around. The office will sell between $400 and $1000 cards per week. Multiply that by $7 per card and it sounds like a lot of money. But after all the fees and overrides you end up making nothing. I was making $500 a week as a manager of a successful office. After that, they entice you with the next step. REgional directors where you manage I think 3-5 offices. Vice president where you manage many more. These guys run the day to day in one office and get the "$7 per card" but also get a $1 off all of the other offices that they are in charge of. Not true but this is what you are told. In the end the men that started the company make a ton. Some underneath them make a lot too. The rest spend 1,2,3 years being enticed into bigger and better things, only to realize that the goal in the company is to burn you out so that you never get to the VP or higher level. They want you to do well, make them money and then leave so they never have to split with you. There's a ton more to it, but that's the basics.

What products: There are a ton. Some are junk, and some are pretty good. They sell little trinkets that you would find on a rack in a convenience store(calculators, cheap work bags etc), I'm sure all of you have seen them. They also sell these little discount packages where you pay $20 and get say 3-5 oil changes. Or $20 bucks and get 6-10 buy one get one dinners at a local restaraunt. They sell these products business to business and door to door. Some of you guys may have them come to your door one day. They've come to my door and I recognize it right away. The oil deals are really good if you don't change your own oil. I always listen to what they say regardless of how I hate the company because some of the deals are really good. They have done buy one get one tickets to sporting events but it's not common. Only for teams that are desperate for fans.

3.) How do they get people to do door to door and business to business 6 days a week, working 7 am until sometimes midnight? It's the promise of bigger and better things while only telling you the half-truth. They get you in the door by telling you that they work for sports teams. They don't tell you how. They get you to stay after your first few days by telling you that at the next step you will make a lot of money. This continues until you find out that you won't.

4.) What does Juice mean? Join us in Creating Excitement.

Like I said I could go on and on with stories. When I opened up an office I had a core team of 6 guys. We built our office up to 30 people that sold stuff everyday door to door. I lived in an apartment with 4 other guys and one girl. We all were very close and had a great time partying together when we weren't selling. When I figured out what was really going on, I sat them all down and told them. I said that I could not continue because now that I know the scheme I would be unable to lie to them. We now all hate each other.

Bip, it's alarmingly close to what I worked for that day. The worst part is that it's 100% commision, so you don't get paid if you sell nothing.

We went through the Bronx and sold these 30 dollar Knicks pamphlets. If I sold one, I get about $11, I believe. To this day, I am not sure how legit the pamphlets were. It had a phone number on each pamphlet for them to call, but who knows if that actually led you to Madison Square Garden OR some receptionist at the marketing headquarters. I just know that it looks like they changed their name to VAST marketing, instead of focus.

I'm just happy that I hated it enough, for that day, that I told them I'm wasn't taking the job. I mean, waiting tables sucks ars at times, but at least it's real and at least I know I got something waiting for me in the future, as long as I work hard.

The rest spend 1,2,3 years being enticed into bigger and better things, only to realize that the goal in the company is to burn you out so that you never get to the VP or higher level. They want you to do well, make them money and then leave so they never have to split with you. There's a ton more to it, but that's the basics.

I don't know about the company's intention of trying to burn you out, I think it's more like "I don't care about your health, just as long as you make me money." So you probably could have become regional VP, but only at the point where the top guys are making more money by doing so, even though they're sharing more profits with you. So it is possible to become a regional VP, but they probably lied to you about the average years needed to become one.

What products: There are a ton. Some are junk, and some are pretty good. They sell little trinkets that you would find on a rack in a convenience store(calculators, cheap work bags etc), I'm sure all of you have seen them. They also sell these little discount packages where you pay $20 and get say 3-5 oil changes. Or $20 bucks and get 6-10 buy one get one dinners at a local restaraunt. They sell these products business to business and door to door. Some of you guys may have them come to your door one day. They've come to my door and I recognize it right away. The oil deals are really good if you don't change your own oil. I always listen to what they say regardless of how I hate the company because some of the deals are really good. They have done buy one get one tickets to sporting events but it's not common. Only for teams that are desperate for fans.

Man, these products sound a lot easier to sell than selling knives or financial products. In those 8 weeks I spent selling knives, I made less than $150 a week while working 60 hours. But, looking back, it wasn't a big deal since it was the summer before I went to college, and I did learn a lot from the experience. For Primerica though, I lost like $200 for trying to get my license to sell insurance products. Also, I spent like a total 80 hours attending insurance classes and BS seminars about "look at how rich I am now, and you can become like me if you stick with the system and persevere." In one seminar, there a divorced woman in the late 40's, who kept on referring to her adopted kid as "it" (as if it was an unknown animal, and not a human being), and kept on telling the audience how proud she is of providing "it" with a luxurious home and lifestyle. That Primerica office are fulled of shallow people like her.

Posted by Allanfan20:

Bip, it's alarmingly close to what I worked for that day. The worst part is that it's 100% commision, so you don't get paid if you sell nothing.

We went through the Bronx and sold these 30 dollar Knicks pamphlets. If I sold one, I get about $11, I believe. To this day, I am not sure how legit the pamphlets were. It had a phone number on each pamphlet for them to call, but who knows if that actually led you to Madison Square Garden OR some receptionist at the marketing headquarters. I just know that it looks like they changed their name to VAST marketing, instead of focus.

I'm just happy that I hated it enough, for that day, that I told them I'm wasn't taking the job. I mean, waiting tables sucks ars at times, but at least it's real and at least I know I got something waiting for me in the future, as long as I work hard.

Everytime they blow out, fire, burn out a manager of a location they bring in a new manager. That new manager incorporates and must come in with a new company name. If you check up on it a year from now I'm sure VAST marketing witll be a thing of the past as well.

Posted by Hank:

The rest spend 1,2,3 years being enticed into bigger and better things, only to realize that the goal in the company is to burn you out so that you never get to the VP or higher level. They want you to do well, make them money and then leave so they never have to split with you. There's a ton more to it, but that's the basics.

I don't know about the company's intention of trying to burn you out, I think it's more like "I don't care about your health, just as long as you make me money." So you probably could have become regional VP, but only at the point where the top guys are making more money by doing so, even though they're sharing more profits with you. So it is possible to become a regional VP, but they probably lied to you about the average years needed to become one.

What products: There are a ton. Some are junk, and some are pretty good. They sell little trinkets that you would find on a rack in a convenience store(calculators, cheap work bags etc), I'm sure all of you have seen them. They also sell these little discount packages where you pay $20 and get say 3-5 oil changes. Or $20 bucks and get 6-10 buy one get one dinners at a local restaraunt. They sell these products business to business and door to door. Some of you guys may have them come to your door one day. They've come to my door and I recognize it right away. The oil deals are really good if you don't change your own oil. I always listen to what they say regardless of how I hate the company because some of the deals are really good. They have done buy one get one tickets to sporting events but it's not common. Only for teams that are desperate for fans.

Man, these products sound a lot easier to sell than selling knives or financial products. In those 8 weeks I spent selling knives, I made less than $150 a week while working 60 hours. But, looking back, it wasn't a big deal since it was the summer before I went to college, and I did learn a lot from the experience. For Primerica though, I lost like $200 for trying to get my license to sell insurance products. Also, I spent like a total 80 hours attending insurance classes and BS seminars about "look at how rich I am now, and you can become like me if you stick with the system and persevere." In one seminar, there a divorced woman in the late 40's, who kept on referring to her adopted kid as "it" (as if it was an unknown animal, and not a human being), and kept on telling the audience how proud she is of providing "it" with a luxurious home and lifestyle. That Primerica office are fulled of shallow people like her.

Hank: The problem is that there is only so much territory in the states to go around. Ultimately if all the distributors(sellers) did their job well, the company would run out of territory and have to fire people anyway. You are right however. They do want people to do well, but they have no problem when a guy can't take it anymore.

The products are pretty good. I didn't find it difficult to sell. The hardest part was getting people to get past the fear that it is a scam. If people could trust you enough to listen you could sell to about 1 out of every 10 people(if you were bad at it). Some products in some towns sold to 1 out of 2 or 3 people. I had a big baby face, goofy smile and a laid back personality so people tended to listen to what I had to say. I was able to sell very well. The only times I got creamed were in areas like Jersey City, Bayonne and some of the rich white neighborhoods of Jersey where they didn't feel comfortable talking to the nice young colored fellow at the door.