Posted by fishmike:
Posted by BigRedDog:
I would like Burnett, don't want any part of Sheets
why? At least Sheets was once a healthy starter. AJ has never been. Either would be Wright/Pavano part II, but I would rather take Sheets at a discount then overpay for AJ who will bust. Sheets has great stuff
Total starts over the last 4 years:
Sheets: 94
Burnett: 113
both guys have severely sketchy health history but AJB would entail signing to a huge 5 year contract... u can probably get Sheets on a 2 year deal for much less.
personally i would rather pass on both & just sign Lowe... he's a guarantee to give u 190+ solid innings every year & he's pretty much as battle tested a vet as u can get in this free agent market.
[Edited by - TMS on 12-10-2008 7:40 PM]
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by BigRedDog:
I would like Burnett, don't want any part of Sheets
why? At least Sheets was once a healthy starter. AJ has never been. Either would be Wright/Pavano part II, but I would rather take Sheets at a discount then overpay for AJ who will bust. Sheets has great stuff
Total starts over the last 4 years:
Sheets: 94
Burnett: 113
Over the last 2 years its:
Sheets: 54 starts
Burnett: 59 starts
I think that's more indicative of what to expect here on out. Its basically 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. They both have great stuff and can be very good pitchers when they're healthy. Burnett has a slight edge when it comes to stuff and the knowledge that he can do well against the Red Sox but is that worth and extra 2-3 guaranteed years?
Posted by TMS:
both guys have severely sketchy health history but AJB would entail signing to a huge 5 year contract... u can probably get Sheets on a 2 year deal for much less.
personally i would rather pass on both & just sign Lowe... he's a guarantee to give u 190+ solid innings every year & he's pretty much as battle tested a vet as u can get in this free agent market.
[Edited by - TMS on 12-10-2008 7:40 PM]
I dont want any of the 3. If I HAD to take one, I'd go for Sheets since he would be a shorter deal.
Are you really interested in Lowe? His ERA at Yankee stadium for his career is 6.02
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by TMS:
both guys have severely sketchy health history but AJB would entail signing to a huge 5 year contract... u can probably get Sheets on a 2 year deal for much less.
personally i would rather pass on both & just sign Lowe... he's a guarantee to give u 190+ solid innings every year & he's pretty much as battle tested a vet as u can get in this free agent market.
[Edited by - TMS on 12-10-2008 7:40 PM]
I dont want any of the 3. If I HAD to take one, I'd go for Sheets since he would be a shorter deal.
Are you really interested in Lowe? His ERA at Yankee stadium for his career is 6.02
yes, i really think Lowe is a perfect fit for this market & team... he is a guy who will step up in big games & get the job done... he's also got 1 of those "rubber arms" & can close out games for u if u need him to in an emergency... i'm not so sure AJB would be a great fit for NY & his injury history scares me for the amount of dollars we're talking about.
Posted by BigRedDog:
Lowe is 36 yrs old. You give him a 4 yr deal? Risky. Burnett and Sheets are both injury risks. Sheets has a torn muscle in his elbow. its all a crapshoot.
Did Sheets undergo surgery or anything to correct the elbow problem?? How serious is the injury considered right now? If we got him, would he require further rehab?? Anyone know his status?
Posted by Finestrg:
Posted by BigRedDog:
Lowe is 36 yrs old. You give him a 4 yr deal? Risky. Burnett and Sheets are both injury risks. Sheets has a torn muscle in his elbow. its all a crapshoot.
Did Sheets undergo surgery or anything to correct the elbow problem?? How serious is the injury considered right now? If we got him, would he require further rehab?? Anyone know his status?
Girardi after meeting with Ben Sheets in Vegas: "His numbers stack up against anyone's.
He's healthy now, we believe. He's had some injuries, but injuries are what have kept him out of that class. When he's on the mound, he's dynamite."
Might all be a moot point as it looks like we might land Burnett now - somewhere in the vicinity of 5 yrs., $90 million - more than the Braves' offer.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story...http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=...[Edited by - finestrg on 12-11-2008 12:14 AM]
Might all be a moot point as it looks like we might land Burnett now - somewhere in the vicinity of 5 yrs., $90 million - more than the Braves' offer.
ouch... $18 mil per committed to a high injury risk over 5 years? now that's a move i can definitely second guess Cashman on.
[Edited by - TMS on 12-10-2008 11:49 PM]
Posted by TMS:
Might all be a moot point as it looks like we might land Burnett now - somewhere in the vicinity of 5 yrs., $90 million - more than the Braves' offer.
ouch... $18 mil per committed to a high injury risk over 5 years? now that's a move i can definitely second guess Cashman on.
[Edited by - TMS on 12-10-2008 11:49 PM]
If it's coming out of money that would be spent elsewhere, then I agree. If they still add one more good starting pitcher and two very good hitters, then I'm fine with out-bidding the competitors.
Posted by TMS:
Might all be a moot point as it looks like we might land Burnett now - somewhere in the vicinity of 5 yrs., $90 million - more than the Braves' offer.
ouch... $18 mil per committed to a high injury risk over 5 years? now that's a move i can definitely second guess Cashman on.
[Edited by - TMS on 12-10-2008 11:49 PM]
You can second, third, fourth and fifth guess him on it...
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by TMS:
Might all be a moot point as it looks like we might land Burnett now - somewhere in the vicinity of 5 yrs., $90 million - more than the Braves' offer.
ouch... $18 mil per committed to a high injury risk over 5 years? now that's a move i can definitely second guess Cashman on.
[Edited by - TMS on 12-10-2008 11:49 PM]
You can second, third, fourth and fifth guess him on it...
I guess Cash has decided that among Lowe, AJ, and Sheets, AJ is the best gamble over the long-haul. It's a huge gamble and I'm not sure I get the reasoning either. For about the same total price, you could get BOTH Sheets and Lowe. AJ is a very talented pitcher; so I wouldn't vociferously complain if we got him but it wouldn't seem to be the most logical choice to me at 5 yrs/90 mil.
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 12-11-2008 08:58 AM]
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by TMS:
Might all be a moot point as it looks like we might land Burnett now - somewhere in the vicinity of 5 yrs., $90 million - more than the Braves' offer.
ouch... $18 mil per committed to a high injury risk over 5 years? now that's a move i can definitely second guess Cashman on.
[Edited by - TMS on 12-10-2008 11:49 PM]
You can second, third, fourth and fifth guess him on it...
I guess Cash has decided that among Lowe, AJ, and Sheets, AJ is the best gamble over the long-haul. It's a huge gamble and I'm not sure I get the reasoning either. For about the same total price, you could get BOTH Sheets and Lowe. AJ is a very talented pitcher; so I wouldn't vociferously complain if we got him but it wouldn't seem to be the most logical choice to me at 5 yrs/90 mil.
[Edited by - bonn1997 on 12-11-2008 08:58 AM]
Agreed. I actually like AJ a lot, but I think Ben Sheets for two years is the much better buy and the much better gamble.
if u want a solid pitcher that will guarantee u innings & isn't aging like Lowe, take John Garland... much better gamble for the back end of the rotation... Sheets & Garland u can have both on 2-3 year deals w/very minimal risk.
Posted by TMS:
if u want a solid pitcher that will guarantee u innings & isn't aging like Lowe, take John Garland... much better gamble for the back end of the rotation... Sheets & Garland u can have both on 2-3 year deals w/very minimal risk.
Good call. We've tossed Garland's name around before. He's capable and still pretty young. Tell you what bro, when I fired up clips of Sheets from his player page at MLB.com yesterday my mouth started waterin' when I saw him throwing 97 at the all-star game last summer at YS. All due respect to Garland and Derek Lowe (who I like too - dude's a gamer) this guy's a bonafide ace. He's only 30 - that's 6 yrs. younger than Lowe and about 1 1/2 - 2 yrs. younger than Burnett. And to think they might be able to lure him here with only a 2 yr deal?!?!? He's my guy. What I don't understand is now that CC's off the table, how is Milwaukee not all over bringing Sheets back?? Weird kinda, right?
yeah i know Sheets has some tantalizing stuff, no about about it, it's just his health issues that scare me... on a 2 year deal i'm all for it tho... we'd still need to sign another veteran arm, so whether that be Andy P or Garland, the guy needs to be someone we can count on for at least 190+ innings next season... i don't wanna be relying on Hughes.
all this OUTRAGE over the money the Yankees are spending is such a joke... what the Yankees decide to do with THEIR money is nobody else's business but their own... why do these talking heads on ESPN get such delight in judging the Yankees for doing what teams have been doing for the longest is beyond me... where was all this outrage last year when the Mets signed Johan to his record breaking contract? as far as i saw everyone was calling that a no brainer acquisition & an intelligent signing by the Mets... now that the shoe is on the other foot & we're talking about the Yankees all of a sudden it's a disgrace to the sport & an insult to families trying to make it through these tough economic times... GIMME A FREAKIN' BREAK & get off your damn soap boxes u numbnut Yankee haters! if the Mets or the Red Sux had signed CC to the same contract they'd be hailing Omar or Theo as geniuses right about now.
Karl Ravech, u can kiss my yellow ass! & John Kruk, go screw yourself & grow a freakin' neck why don'tcha! HATTERS!!!
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Swishfm3:
Overpaid like a mother...typical Yankees.
certainly the Mets wouldn't know anything about overpaying FA's.
from pete abraham:
The contract Johan Santana signed with the Mets guarantees him $132 million over six seasons. There is a $25 million club option for 2014 or a $5.5 million buyout.
The option can vest, however, based on how Santana fares in the Cy Young voting or how many innings he pitches. If the option vests, Santana would receive $157 million over seven seasons.
CC Sabathia will receive $161 million over seven years if he fulfills the entire contract. So Sabathia cost only $4 million more. Santana’s average annual value would be $22.42 million, Sabathia’s $23 million.
The difference is that the Yankees did not have to surrender any prospects, which is what the Mets had to do. This is what the Yankees intended to do all along. While they took the hit in 2008, they benefit in the long term by not shedding any prospects.
Meanwhile it’s amusing to read so many columnists in New York and elsewhere criticizing the Yankees for spending so much money on Sabathia and A.J. Burnett. These are the same people who ripped Cashman for not getting Santana and would have called for his head had Sabathia signed with another team.
I can’t say I agree with every move Cashman has made. But he can’t win. If he spends money, he’s evil. If he doesn’t spend money, he’s foolish. Until baseball changes the rules, the Yankees are playing by the rules.
[Edited by - djsunyc on 12-14-2008 5:57 PM]
We should be done on the rotation. Aceves/Hughes should battle it out for the 5th spot. we have an awesome top 4 right now. Aceves looked good at the end of the season and Hughes was back to form by the end of the Arizona Fall League. The Yankees have to believe in their system a little bit more.
I read on a message board that we may have an offer out to Manny of about 3/65. I think that'll be a good start to rebuilding the O a bit. Matsui may end up being traded to SF or Seattle if that were the case. And we may still be in the hunt to make a trade for a much bigger bat using guys like Swisher and possibly Nady as pieces.
At a minimum we should sign Andy and Manny
Posted by VDesai:
We should be done on the rotation. Aceves/Hughes should battle it out for the 5th spot. we have an awesome top 4 right now. Aceves looked good at the end of the season and Hughes was back to form by the end of the Arizona Fall League. The Yankees have to believe in their system a little bit more.
I read on a message board that we may have an offer out to Manny of about 3/65. I think that'll be a good start to rebuilding the O a bit. Matsui may end up being traded to SF or Seattle if that were the case. And we may still be in the hunt to make a trade for a much bigger bat using guys like Swisher and possibly Nady as pieces.
we need 1 more reliable durable arm... right now we have 1 guy u can slot in as a given on every day, & that's CC... Wang's coming off a major injury, Joba's a 1st time fulltime starter at this level, AJB has a sketchy past healthwise, & neither Hughes nor Aceves have shown anything over any appreciable amount of time at this level to say they're a reliable option either.
u can't keep tasking the mid relief & calling up guys like Darrell Rasner & who ever else & hope to win games consistently... we need to sign Andy, Lowe or Garland... someone u can pencil in every season to give u at least 190+ innings & win u 14-16 games.
Andy Pettitte at his age and after his performance last year is not a reliable arm at this point.
You can't keep using "he hasn't done anything" as an excuse when it comes to prospects. Phil Hughes was considered the top pitching prospect in baseball by a lot more than Yankee apologists. He needs to be given a shot to succeed. I understand he hasn't stayed healthy, but you can't keep going on the assumption you won't. The Sox were patient with Lester and it paid off. Aceves is another guy who had a great year in the minors last year and had a very nice Septemeber for the Yanks.
