Rickey will be in for being Rickey. He was a one man wrecking crew in his prime. He got on base a ton and would end up stealing 2nd AND 3rd before scoring on an out or a hit. I can't wait for his Hall of Fame speech. He should be going into the Hall of Fame alone this summer.
If Jim Rice makes it, it will just keep devaluing the Hall of Fame. Voting for a guy because it's his last year on the ballot is not a good reason. His numbers are not eye popping for a power hitter, with fewer than 400 and behind guys like Harold Baines, Craig Nettles, Dale Murphy and Dave Kingman. When you take into account the hitters ballpark, especially for right hand hitters, in which he played all his home games and the lineup that he played in, if he were a true HOFer he should have been putting up numbers a lot closer to Reggie Jackson but he's not remotely close.
I'm still bitter about Eddie Murray making it and I'll argue with anybody who thinks he's a real Hall of Famer.
Rickey Henderson and Jim Rice were elected.
What a joke.
Rickey = no brainer
Rice = BS selection resulting from years of lobbying by Red Sox sycophants.
why does one become a HOF'er one year but not another? the voting process is ridiculous.
i think they should make a committee for every 10-15 year period comprised of players, managers, and execs that were active during that era. and let them vote in HOF'ers. having writers do it is ridiculous.
I want to see the ballots of the 28 morons who didn't vote for Rickey and get an explanation from them as to why they didn't think that the greatest leadoff hitter and run producer of all time is a Hall of Famer.
the whole voting system is way too political... stats are all well & good but u also have to consider the impact these players had on the game during the time they played... was Rice really the dominant right handed hitter during the days that he played? i don't think he was personally... IMO he's a lot closer to Garret Anderson than he is someone like Reggie Jackson... he was a very good solid & respected ML hitter throughout his career, but definitely not HOF material... we're talking elite of the elite when we talk about HOF... just being an Allstar player doesn't make you a HOFer... u have to almost transcend the game & redefine the position during your peak, & he definitely did not qualify as doing either.
Agree with the sentiments in this thread. Whenever you have voting, it always turns into a glorified popularity contest. I've heard pros and cons on Rice so I guess its ok to let a guy or two slip through the cracks.
Not voting for Ricky is ridiculous. I've heard horror stories about him, and my personal encounter with him left a lot to be desired, but if he isnt a hall of fame then one might as well just blow up Canton.
Well, I"ll tell ya guys something. I watched Rice play and in his day, he was one of the most feared hitters. I was actually wondering when' they would elect him. I know he's a red suck, but just from a baseball point of view, I agree with the pick and to remind everyone, the picks are going to start getting pretty slim in about another decade, seeing that the steroid era will be taking their turns. I also believe by picking Rice, it seems that a guy like Mattingly might have a shot also. Especially for the fact just mentioned above.
Can you imagine Mattingly going in ahead of cheaters like sosa, mcguire, bonds, etc., etc.? I sure can.
i dunno about Donnie either... he was a great player for about 5 years of his career before his back injury slowed him down... is that enough to get him in?
Posted by TMS:
i dunno about Donnie either... he was a great player for about 5 years of his career before his back injury slowed him down... is that enough to get him in?
No, health is a part of the equation. Just couldnt stay on the field, and he left right before the dominant Yankee run. I have a feeling if he could have just hung on in the 96-00 years and put up decent numbers then he would be a shoe in; especially considering the steroid era backlash and the appreciation of those that did it the right way.
lol@the votes for McGwire.
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by TMS:
i dunno about Donnie either... he was a great player for about 5 years of his career before his back injury slowed him down... is that enough to get him in?
No, health is a part of the equation. Just couldnt stay on the field, and he left right before the dominant Yankee run. I have a feeling if he could have just hung on in the 96-00 years and put up decent numbers then he would be a shoe in; especially considering the steroid era backlash and the appreciation of those that did it the right way.
lol@the votes for McGwire.
i agree w/u... i also don't think Kirby Puckett deserved to get in either... another very good, but not elite of the elite ballplayer as far as i'm concerned.
Ricky is an all timer.
Jim Rice wasn't.
Posted by TMS:
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by TMS:
i dunno about Donnie either... he was a great player for about 5 years of his career before his back injury slowed him down... is that enough to get him in?
No, health is a part of the equation. Just couldnt stay on the field, and he left right before the dominant Yankee run. I have a feeling if he could have just hung on in the 96-00 years and put up decent numbers then he would be a shoe in; especially considering the steroid era backlash and the appreciation of those that did it the right way.
lol@the votes for McGwire.
i agree w/u... i also don't think Kirby Puckett deserved to get in either... another very good, but not elite of the elite ballplayer as far as i'm concerned.
The Hall of Fame has officially turned into the Hall of Very Good with the inductions of players like Rice, Perez, Fisk, Puckett, Murray, Sutton, Niekro and Cepeda. Some of whom were very good but with only a few HOF type seasons and some who just compiled numbers based on longevity with good but rarely, if ever, having great seasons.
Posted by VDesai:
Ricky is an all timer.
Jim Rice wasn't.
Many other HoF weren't either. I can only base Rice on being the most feared hitter at the time. I remember he was so feared that he lost his cap to a Yankee fan, after he fell and lost his hat. He ran into the seats (entire team followed) and he chased the guy down who stole his cap. Grabbed it and pushed the guy backwards. Everyone else just stood around like nothing happened. This was late 70's and during that time, the fans would have beat the shit out of anyone who did something like that. That's the kind of presence Rice had and man, I hated it when our pitchers had to face him at bat. That's pretty much all I can tell ya.
The guy put up good numbers, had an affect on his team and basically had good conduct about him. Now I'm talking about an x-sux here. And you's know I don't care for no bastan bastards, so that says a lot.
[Edited by - 4949 on 01-13-2009 01:27 AM]
i remember Rice too & he definitely was the most feared hitter on those Sux teams, but we're talking the cream of the crop here... if u ask me i would put Andre Dawson into the HOF before Jim Rice because he was a true 5 tool player & didn't have the luxury of playing his career w/that Green Monster to raise his batting average
Ricky Henderson can run so fast, and slide, and hit singles, it's scary!
Posted by TMS:
i remember Rice too & he definitely was the most feared hitter on those Sux teams, but we're talking the cream of the crop here... if u ask me i would put Andre Dawson into the HOF before Jim Rice because he was a true 5 tool player & didn't have the luxury of playing his career w/that Green Monster to raise his batting average
I heard a stat on ESPN that bears repeating. From like '77-86, Rice was the leader in HR's and RBI. That sounds like sustained elite production to me.
He didnt have the longevity of many HOF's so his inclusion wasnt a slam dunk, but too many great players have spoken up on his behalf for his inclusion not to be legitimate in my eyes.
His case is a debatable one, but I think its cool.
But whoever didnt vote for Ricky Henderson, IMO, should have their voting privileges revoked immediately. Thats just ridiculous. He's the greatest leadoff hitter ever, by a mile, and one of the overall greatest players of all time. WTF??? Corruption or incompetence, pick one.
Posted by sebstar:
I heard a stat on ESPN that bears repeating. From like '77-86, Rice was the leader in HR's and RBI. That sounds like sustained elite production to me.
that's a misleading statement... Rice did NOT lead the league in every 1 of those seasons... they are taking the cumulative totals of his numbers over that timespan in comparison to the other players in the league... those totals are skewed by his 6 tremendous seasons of offensive production, yet u also have to consider the 5 seasons of average to below average production as well... but i wouldn't expect anything less from ESPN & those Boston nuthuggers.
as i said about Donnie baseball, just being great for 5 seasons does not qualify one as a HOFer in my book, & again, u have to consider the fact that Rice was playing half his games in a tremendously righty friendly ballpark in Fenway as well.
[Edited by - TMS on 01-13-2009 11:08 AM]
Posted by TMS:
Posted by sebstar:
I heard a stat on ESPN that bears repeating. From like '77-86, Rice was the leader in HR's and RBI. That sounds like sustained elite production to me.
that's a misleading statement... Rice did NOT lead the league in every 1 of those seasons... they are taking the cumulative totals of his numbers over that timespan in comparison to the other players in the league... those totals are skewed by his 6 tremendous seasons of offensive production, yet u also have to consider the 5 seasons of average to below average production as well... but i wouldn't expect anything less from ESPN & those Boston nuthuggers.
as i said about Donnie baseball, just being great for 5 seasons does not qualify one as a HOFer in my book, & again, u have to consider the fact that Rice was playing half his games in a tremendously righty friendly ballpark in Fenway as well.
[Edited by - TMS on 01-13-2009 11:02 AM]
I understand the context of the stat. Rationalize all you want, but In a pure numbers game, he is a leader in key categories for about a decade. Even if its heavily concentrated in a few years, the numbers are still there.
Don Mattingly fell off a lot faster and a lot harder, IIRC.
Donnie also won 9 Gold Gloves, led the league in BA & finished in the top 3 two other times, & has won more Silver Slugger awards over his injury shortened heyday than Rice... if Rice gets in there's no way ur gonna tell me Donnie can't, & even Yankee fans will tell u Donnie just doesn't have the numbers to get in.
Posted by TMS:
Donnie also won 9 Gold Gloves, led the league in BA & finished in the top 3 two other times, & has won more Silver Slugger awards over his injury shortened heyday than Rice... if Rice gets in there's no way ur gonna tell me Donnie can't, & even Yankee fans will tell u Donnie just doesn't have the numbers to get in.
I have to see the numbers before I can commit, but hey Donnie got me into being a Yankee fan so I'm all for it if its there.
