Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Marv:
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by kam77:
More and more evidence is mounting that Gates was indeed arrested for being an ass.
Your mama?
Yeah, i'd arrest him too.
How do we know he said that?
ask your mama.
All right, that's it smart ass! You're under arrest!
Posted by misterearl:
Diversity Training 101
Gates: "I'll speak with your mama outside."
rembee - the respectable Sargeant Crowley was totally unaware of the correct response, "oh yeah, well yo' momma is so fat..."
It was all downhill after that.
[Edited by - misterearl on 07-24-2009 12:46 PM]
Oh so now Gates is a comedian, and the cop didnt get his humor? Diversity training my ass.
I really enjoy this back and forth with you Earl, but at some point youre going to have to concede. Sorry.
Baseball
firefly - you understand sports and the role of officials, right? Like any good police officer the role of a baseball umpire is to officiate and mediate. Their job is to diffuse tension, not escalate it. Right?
Since none of us were in the house when the situation fell apart we can only read the police report, Gates' account -then take sides and speculate on how it went down.
I would submit that similar to ANY good baseball umpire, once the HLG ID was valid, Sgt Crowley's job is to walk away. Once a manager persists, provokes, threatens or uses profanity - the last resort is to have him tossed. The last resort.
As Crowley is the diversity instructor for the police department, how much would it have taken much for him to see an opening to diffuse Gate's frustration and anger at his presence in his house?
This was obviously not some street thug or even a minor threat to his manhood. It was a road weary, grey haired, 5'7 (so there was NO physical threat) 58 year old with a cane, back home after a long trip who was in his OWN HOUSE ... and tired of being "sweated up" for nothing.
Stevie Wonder can see that much.
The "yo' momma is so fat..." response would have been perfect and immediately diffused the situation.
But that response would require some cultural expertise (and baseball umpire courage) not covered in the handbook.
[Edited by - misterearl on 07-24-2009 1:45 PM]
Posted by misterearl:
Baseball
firefly - you understand sports and the role of officials, right? Like any good police officer the role of a baseball umpire is to officiate and mediate. Their job is to diffuse tension, not escalate it. Right?
Since none of us were in the house when the situation fell apart we can only read the police report, Gates' account -then take sides and speculate on how it went down.
I would submit that similar to ANY good baseball umpire, once the HLG ID was valid, Sgt Crowley's job is to walk away. Once a manager persists, provokes, threatens or uses profanity - the last resort is to have him tossed. The last resort.
As Crowley is the diversity instructor for the police department, I would not have taken much for him to see an opening to diffuse Gate's frustration and anger at his presence in his house.
This was obviously not some street thug or even a minor threat to his manhood. It was a road weary, grey haired, 5'7 (so there was NO physical threat) 58 year old with a cane, back home after a long trip who was in his OWN HOUSE ... and tired of being "sweated up" for nothing.
Stevie Wonder can see that much.
The "yo' momma is so fat..." response would have been perfect and immediately diffused the situation.
But that response would require some cultural expertise (and baseball umpire courage) not covered in the handbook.
So you agree that the cop wasnt being racist, and the escalation of the situation was down to Gates' perception of the cops atitude?
I think we all agree the cop could have conducted himself better. But to call it racism when it wasnt is hugely detrimental.
Posted by misterearl:
Baseball
I would submit that similar to ANY good baseball umpire, once the HLG ID was valid, Sgt Crowley's job is to walk away. Once a manager persists, provokes, threatens or uses profanity - the last resort is to have him tossed. The last resort.
The cop
did walk away, he left the house. Gates
DID persist. He says he followed the officer and kept the drama going. By your own definition earl, he then got tossed (into jail). And not by the same supposedly racist cop but by a totally different police officer.
As Crowley is the diversity instructor for the police department, I would not have taken much for him to see an opening to diffuse Gate's frustration and anger at his presence in his house.
This was obviously not some street thug or even a minor threat to his manhood. It was a road weary, grey haired, 5'7 (so there was NO physical threat) 58 year old with a cane, back home after a long trip who was in his OWN HOUSE ... and tired of being "sweated up" for nothing.
Stevie Wonder can see that much.
WRONG. The cops received a report of 2 men. The cop sees one, Gates, but not the other. How does the cop know that the old man is alone and that he isn't the "brains" of the operation and there isn't some bad guy rummaging around upstairs for jewelry or other valuables.
Stop being so ignorant of a police officer's reality.
firefly - why do you keep using the word "racist"?
Because you and others here keep claiming the cop arrested him due to racial discrimination. Now, I dont like racism and will fight it whenever i find it. I also dont like agenda-driven mischaractarisations and overall scaremongering and AM fighting it as I find it.
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by Nalod:
There is not one correct stance here.
I wonder if Gates was all pissed off cuz he was rocking in the 5 star Peninsula Hotel with a great room, flat panel tv with Pay-Per-Bukakke featuring Mrs TMS (the former Natashia Yi)in full surround sound Slap vision, and all the trimmings that come with being treated like royalty in a 5 star gig to thinking his lock was tampered with (whitey) and then some cop is not the bellman from the hotel looking to help him with his key and refresh his pillow mint but infact wants to know why he is standing in a house just broken into and why this old phucker is mouthing off to him like he is shyit?
He called for back up and they obviously talked about before arresting him.
Quick question, if an alleged perp is not cooperationg, acting irrational does the cop have to give him his name and number? Forget Gates is Gates here, but lets say the cop gives him his name and number and just walks away and Gates complains, and now the press is involved cuz not its the famous Mr. Gates does the cop have any leg to stand on? If arrested with witness' the cop has his paperwork which verifies within the law he had basis to investigate and arrest a man? So at that point was the man arrested because he was threating the Cop. Not physically mind you, but this guy Gates was going to use his "juice card" and slam this guy and the department? And if so, perhaps the most defensive act to verify was to bring him in. I mean when your shouting "do you know who I am???" is kind of a threat.
Yeah, cops are mad, arrogant and think they are above it but think about how much they are treated like shyit themselves.
This was a collision. Gates perspective is pretty much his reality and I can understand his rage. The cop has a conflicted duty to do his job and now deal with a shyit storm to which him and his collegues are not equipted to handle.
In hindsight it might appear that both parties were acting inappropriately.
There is one major component that you are missing here Nalod: There was no crime being committed anything else that happened after that fact was established is on the cop. Gates was in his home and on his porch all of which were private property. Would the cop have heard anything if he left the premises so all this so-called yelling would have been moot.
I think this really boils down to the conversation verbatum.
Perhaps gates lost it and would not shut the phuck up. Then its was he "a black ass/hole or a white/asshole"? Or does race matter at this point. and Ass/hole is an ass/hole?
firefly - no where did I ever say Gates was arrested due to racial discrimination. Nowhere.
kam77 - yeah, you are correct. Henry Louis Gates fits the physical profile of a burglar mastermind. What is the name of his gang, "The Too Old Crew"?
gimme a break
Posted by misterearl:
firefly - no where did I ever say Gates was arrested due to racial discrimination. Nowhere.
kam77 - yeah, you are correct. Henry Louis Gates fits the physical profile of a burglar mastermind. What is the name of his gang, "The Too Old Crew"?
gimme a break
so you're suggesting that arrests should not be made due to profiling?
[Edited by - supremecommander on 07-24-2009 2:13 PM]
Kam:
Just a correction, the cop asked Gates to come outside if he had any further issue. This was done, I suspect, because then the cop would then have justification for arresting him; rather than cuffing Gates in his own home
Posted by sebstar:
Kam:
Just a correction, the cop asked Gates to come outside if he had any further issue.
Where did you read this?
WWBFD?
Q. SupremeCommander - so you're suggesting that arrests should not be made due to profiling?
A. I'm suggesting that for a police officer to feel threatened by an obviously frail, 5'7", greying man who uses a cane is a bit of a stretch. No matter how much trash was being talked. It's only words. There was no profanity. Did Gates make a (see Bobby Bonilla) move?
Verbally, I would guarantee that Officer Crowley has heard much worse than "yo momma".
What Would Barney Fife Do?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090724/ap_o...One of the black cops who was at the scene sides 100% with the cop who made the arrest. He essentially said what I thought, that Gates lost his cool and that the cop was only following protocol.
Here is what bothers me about this... there is a race issue in this country. Its this same reason that calling someone or something racist when it isnt is both very damaging and counterproductive. Gates wasnt profiled. He wasnt abused. The cops were there and doing their job. If someone should be called out its the neighbor. If that cop wasnt racist calling him such is about the worst thing Gates could have done and is very unfair.
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/p... here we go... Obama himself talked to the cop.
He said both men overreacted and this could have been prevented.
This is why I got pissed about this, and why I think Gates is 100% in the wrong.
Gates had 4 hours of his life wasted.
The cop? Everyone in the country has his name next to such things as "racist" and whats wrong cops in America. Sorry, but its not fair and Gates trashed the rep of what might or might not be a good cop.
Kudos to Obama for finding out the truth.
Posted by fishmike:
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/p... here we go... Obama himself talked to the cop.
He said both men overreacted and this could have been prevented.
This is why I got pissed about this, and why I think Gates is 100% in the wrong.
Gates had 4 hours of his life wasted.
The cop? Everyone in the country has his name next to such things as "racist" and whats wrong cops in America. Sorry, but its not fair and Gates trashed the rep of what might or might not be a good cop.
Kudos to Obama for finding out the truth.
Part of the problem in America is we react to things and jump to conclusions without knowing the full story.
While each person should be judged separately. Good cops will pay for the perceptions that the bad and crooked cops created.
Issues like these also could be blessings in disguise because it brings issues that need to be addressed and solved to light. The fact that the cop may have been been doing the right thing is even better because it shows the the negative effect it has on cops as apposed to when it does actually happen to African Americans. If the cop was racially profiling and was caught it doesn't have the same impact as if he was innocent but was thought to be guilty. That's the worst.
But as I said in the past. Because of the past history, cops are the ones who created this tension. And because of that they should be the ones putting in the extra effort to easing it.
Posted by newyorknewyork:
While each person should be judged separately. Good cops will pay for the perceptions that the bad and crooked cops created.
Issues like these also could be blessings in disguise because it brings issues that need to be addressed and solved to light. The fact that the cop may have been been doing the right thing is even better because it shows the the negative effect it has on cops as apposed to when it does actually happen to African Americans. If the cop was racially profiling and was caught it doesn't have the same impact as if he was innocent but was thought to be guilty. That's the worst.
But as I said in the past. Because of the past history, cops are the ones who created this tension. And because of that they should be the ones putting in the extra effort to easing it.
Of course the cop most likely won't think about it this way and end up disliking African Americans for it.
That is of course if he really was innocent to begin with.
Posted by misterearl:
WWBFD?
Q. SupremeCommander - so you're suggesting that arrests should not be made due to profiling?
A. I'm suggesting that for a police officer to feel threatened by an obviously frail, 5'7", greying man who uses a cane is a bit of a stretch. No matter how much trash was being talked. It's only words. There was no profanity. Did Gates make a (see Bobby Bonilla) move?
Verbally, I would guarantee that Officer Crowley has heard much worse than "yo momma".
What Would Barney Fife Do?
The Answerman with a complete side-step
Im sorry, but after reading this entire thread I fail to see where racism is the issue here. HOW WAS THIS MAN PROFILED???
If responding to a 911 call that offers a description of two black men breaking into a house, should police stop and frisk white women to avoid offending anyone?
The only person who interjected racism into this situation was MR GATES. The first words out of his mouth are "WHY, BECAUSE IM A BLACK MAN IN AMERICA!?!?" How is that an appropiate response to a police officer knocking on your door?
It seems that some people here dislike the charge of disorderly conduct. Well that is a legal, binding charge. The minute Mr Gates stepped out of his house and continued to act like JERK he became disorderly.
You dont want to get arrested for disorderly conduct, then dont act like disorderly. End of story. If I was the sergeant on scene I would immediately sue the pants off of Mr Gates. This man acted like a true profession, he identified himself several times to Mr Gates, who is LYING when he says that the officer did not.
This is why people are sick and tired of hearing about racism. Talk about playing the race card! How do you respond to a uniformed police officer knocking on your door with "because I am a black man in America" This guy is a jerk.
