Birth Of A Nation
Isn't this an absolutely marvelous point in history to participate?
firefly - i hear your application of Henry Louis Gates to the next liquor store robbery, but I get the feeling HLG "Fight The Power" t-shirts won't be the next popular fashion trend in the 'hood.
I could be wrong.
Quite on the contrary firefly
The national attention and dialogue on police protocol and public reaction can only benefit those who care to think before they rant... or handcuff.
That kid on the corner is more intelligent than you may realize.
Posted by misterearl:
Quite on the contrary firefly
The national attention and dialogue on police protocol and public reaction can only benefit those who care to think before they rant... or handcuff.
That kid on the corner is more intelligent than you may realize.
Completely agree, but you miss my point. This convo should be about police protocol. Instead its about racism, and all black america sees is just another case of policemen hating the black man. Next time it happens a black man will make the same wrong assumptions Gates did. But in this case thats not true, and it harms police/black relations to say it was. Maybe if people realized it wasnt, the next black man will have a slightly smaller chip on his shoulder and the next man slightly smaller still. Until, hopefully, we will live in a society where people truly dont feel different because of the colour of their skin.
Black America is not so monolithic as you may think. There are millions of Black conservatives who probably are convinced Henry Louis Gates was at fault.
Color is a fact of life and nature.
This confrontation is only the most recent in a long thread of events which shape perception. It is not the last.
"Maybe if people realized it wasnt, the next black man will have a slightly smaller chip on his shoulder and the next man slightly smaller still."
Interesting one-sided take firefly. Unfortunately, your perfectly innocent, "Turn the other cheek" solution simply does not provide a valid solution to a more complex problem of changing institutionalized behavior.
Chip on the shoulder? I don't think if your parents were lynched or tortured you would be talking about a "chip on the shoulder" in such petty terms. Henry Louis Gates, a student of history, had much more than a chip on his shoulder. He had the pain and suffering of hundreds of years screaming in his brain.
Watch one of his PBS specials. Just one. Then get back to me.
Nothing To Lose
firefly - Think of it this way, if a respected, mild-mannered Harvard professor like Henry Louis Gates can explode in a vicious rage and threaten the respected position of a police officer... just imagine how much resentment and rage is already bottled inside an unemployed, frustrated and discouraged 18 year old (White or Black) with no hope of his life turning around?
Posted by misterearl:
Black America is not so monolithic as you may think. There are millions of Black conservatives who probably are convinced Henry Louis Gates was at fault.
Color is a fact of life and nature.
This confrontation is only the most recent in a long thread of events which shape perception. It is not the last.
"Maybe if people realized it wasnt, the next black man will have a slightly smaller chip on his shoulder and the next man slightly smaller still."
Interesting one-sided take firefly. Unfortunately, your perfectly innocent, "Turn the other cheek" solution simply does not provide a valid solution to a more complex problem of changing institutionalized behavior.
Chip on the shoulder? I don't think if your parents were lynched or tortured you would be talking about a "chip on the shoulder" in such petty terms. Henry Louis Gates, a student of history, had much more than a chip on his shoulder. He had the pain and suffering of hundreds of years screaming in his brain.
Watch one of his PBS specials. Just one. Then get back to me.
You know what fuck you with your "if my parents werent tortured" crap. Every year the Germans or any authority dont kill me is another step towards me believing they never will.
Im starting to think you deliberately missunderstand me. What im saying isnt so hard to digest.
1. Blacks are discriminated against. They are treaded differently, inhumanly and have no place in society.
2. Blacks are legally emancipated. But the change is only on paper and majority of society still discriminate against them including police.
3. Year after year, steps are taken to attempt to change the way people see the color of a mans skin. Bit by bit, the world realizes that it changes nothing about a person.
4. The majority of society view racism as the evil it undeniably is, but there are still rogue elemnt found who will treat you differently because of how you look.
5. One by one, situation by situation, black people grow my trusting that they will not be treated any differently then the next white man.
Each time a situation arises and a black man is treated no differently then a white man is a step in the rght direction. Each time he is not is a step back. Here we have a situation where the black man was treated no differently then a white man, but he has still cried racism. So instead of going a step forward to the time when all people are treated equally and EXPECT to be treated equally, we go a step back to when black people EXPECTED to be treated worse.
Why is it so hard to understand. And why do you persist in your frustrating "one-sided" remarks when I have proven time and again that not only do I have full empathy for the way black people feel, but I myself have experienced these situations? Are you glad that you find yourself stuck in the past, unwilling to step out and hope the world is becoming a better place? Because I just think its sad.
And where the hell did I say anything about turn the other cheek!? Dont put words into my mouth. Read what I say and maybe you'll appreciate it.
Posted by misterearl:
Nothing To Lose
firefly - Think of it this way, if a respected, mild-mannered Harvard professor like Henry Louis Gates can explode in a vicious rage and threaten the respected position of a police officer... just imagine how much resentment and rage is already bottled inside an unemployed, frustrated and discouraged 18 year old (White or Black) with no hope of his life turning around?
Yeah and now Gates has played his part in ensuring that that 18 year old kid will never think any differently. Congrats and heres a cookie.
[Edited by - firefly on 07-24-2009 10:39 AM]
"Here we have a situation where the black man was treated no differently then a white man, but he has still cried racism."
firefly - are you suggesting that if Bill Gates had lost his temper he would have been handcuffed in his own house?
Posted by misterearl:
"Here we have a situation where the black man was treated no differently then a white man, but he has still cried racism."
firefly - are you suggesting that if Bill Gates had lost his temper he would have been handcuffed in his own house?
If the situation were exactly the same, I would think so yes. Bill Gates chasing the cops to his yard to shout racial invective, you damn right he should be arrested. The only reason he wouldnt be is because hes Bill Gates not because hes white. Thats not a good enough reason.
Henry Louis Gates was chasing the police?
Interesting
Somebody must have tripped over a sofa or slipped in the kitchen
Posted by misterearl:
Henry Louis Gates was chasing the police?
Interesting
Somebody must have tripped over a sofa or slipped in the kitchen
Youre living in your own world dude. Ill get interested when you let someone elses words in.
c'mon firefly - Nowhere did any report mention Henry Louis Gates "chasing the cops to his yard to shout racial invective" and you know it. The obvious exaggeration had to be pointed out.
The man was in his own house and could raise his voice and get pissed and STILL be within his rights as an American citizen. I don't see any provision in any law that prohibits you from raising your voice, or even talking about someone's momma.
Then again, Bill Gates would have let the whole thing slide because he's got it like that
There is not one correct stance here.
I wonder if Gates was all pissed off cuz he was rocking in the 5 star Peninsula Hotel with a great room, flat panel tv with Pay-Per-Bukakke featuring Mrs TMS (the former Natashia Yi)in full surround sound Slap vision, and all the trimmings that come with being treated like royalty in a 5 star gig to thinking his lock was tampered with (whitey) and then some cop is not the bellman from the hotel looking to help him with his key and refresh his pillow mint but infact wants to know why he is standing in a house just broken into and why this old phucker is mouthing off to him like he is shyit?
He called for back up and they obviously talked about before arresting him.
Quick question, if an alleged perp is not cooperationg, acting irrational does the cop have to give him his name and number? Forget Gates is Gates here, but lets say the cop gives him his name and number and just walks away and Gates complains, and now the press is involved cuz not its the famous Mr. Gates does the cop have any leg to stand on? If arrested with witness' the cop has his paperwork which verifies within the law he had basis to investigate and arrest a man? So at that point was the man arrested because he was threating the Cop. Not physically mind you, but this guy Gates was going to use his "juice card" and slam this guy and the department? And if so, perhaps the most defensive act to verify was to bring him in. I mean when your shouting "do you know who I am???" is kind of a threat.
Yeah, cops are mad, arrogant and think they are above it but think about how much they are treated like shyit themselves.
This was a collision. Gates perspective is pretty much his reality and I can understand his rage. The cop has a conflicted duty to do his job and now deal with a shyit storm to which him and his collegues are not equipted to handle.
In hindsight it might appear that both parties were acting inappropriately.
Posted by misterearl:
c'mon firefly - Nowhere did any report mention Henry Louis Gates "chasing the cops to his yard to shout racial invective" and you know it. The obvious exaggeration had to be pointed out.
The man was in his own house and could raise his voice and get pissed and STILL be within his rights as an American citizen. I don't see any provision in any law that prohibits you from raising your voice, or even talking about someone's momma.
Then again, Bill Gates would have let the whole thing slide because he's got it like that
Yes or no question. Do you think Gates was discriminated against because of the color of his skin?
Yes or No?
Correction
firefly - Gates was not "discriminated against"
Henry Louis Gates was handcuffed in his home and led away by police for raising his voice and being pissed. I am searching my memory for a similar case involving a White college professor. Just trying to follow a scientific model with a valid parallel.
So far I'm not having any success.
[Edited by - misterearl on 07-24-2009 11:15 AM]
Yes or no question. Do you think Gates was discriminated against because of the color of his skin?
Yes or No?
Discrimination
a: the act of discriminating b: the process by which two stimuli differing in some aspect are responded to differently.
Yes - Bill Gates would not have been led away from his house in handcuffs. No matter how belligerent he was that the police were on his porch and demanding he step outside.
firefly - if you can point out a similar case involving a White college professor, or reasonable facsimile... and I will be more than happy happy to change my point of view
Just one.
Posted by Nalod:
There is not one correct stance here.
I wonder if Gates was all pissed off cuz he was rocking in the 5 star Peninsula Hotel with a great room, flat panel tv with Pay-Per-Bukakke featuring Mrs TMS (the former Natashia Yi)in full surround sound Slap vision, and all the trimmings that come with being treated like royalty in a 5 star gig to thinking his lock was tampered with (whitey) and then some cop is not the bellman from the hotel looking to help him with his key and refresh his pillow mint but infact wants to know why he is standing in a house just broken into and why this old phucker is mouthing off to him like he is shyit?
He called for back up and they obviously talked about before arresting him.
Quick question, if an alleged perp is not cooperationg, acting irrational does the cop have to give him his name and number? Forget Gates is Gates here, but lets say the cop gives him his name and number and just walks away and Gates complains, and now the press is involved cuz not its the famous Mr. Gates does the cop have any leg to stand on? If arrested with witness' the cop has his paperwork which verifies within the law he had basis to investigate and arrest a man? So at that point was the man arrested because he was threating the Cop. Not physically mind you, but this guy Gates was going to use his "juice card" and slam this guy and the department? And if so, perhaps the most defensive act to verify was to bring him in. I mean when your shouting "do you know who I am???" is kind of a threat.
Yeah, cops are mad, arrogant and think they are above it but think about how much they are treated like shyit themselves.
This was a collision. Gates perspective is pretty much his reality and I can understand his rage. The cop has a conflicted duty to do his job and now deal with a shyit storm to which him and his collegues are not equipted to handle.
In hindsight it might appear that both parties were acting inappropriately.
There is one major component that you are missing here Nalod: There was no crime being committed anything else that happened after that fact was established is on the cop. Gates was in his home and on his porch all of which were private property. Would the cop have heard anything if he left the premises so all this so-called yelling would have been moot.
Posted by misterearl:
Discrimination
a: the act of discriminating b: the process by which two stimuli differing in some aspect are responded to differently.
Yes - Bill Gates would not have been led away from his house in handcuffs. No matter how belligerent he was that the police were on his porch and demanding he step outside.
firefly - if you can point out a similar case involving a White college professor, or reasonable facsimile... and I will be more than happy happy to change my point of view
Just one.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6251...http://www.indypendent.org/2004/06/30/ac...http://media.www.dailyemerald.com/media/...Jim Morrison, arrested on stage for disturbing the peace
Need more?
Yes or no question. Do you think Gates was discriminated against because of the color of his skin?
Yes or No?
firefly - your cited samples were extremely weak. Primarily you miss the critical difference in setting. Being on stage (or in public) and being in your home are two ENTIRELY different things.
c'mon. You really want to cite someone from another country being arrested for jaywalking in Atlanta?
Try again. Please. Please. This time try and be more accurate in your parallels.
[Edited by - misterearl on 07-24-2009 12:01 PM]
Posted by misterearl:
firefly - Dude, being on stage and being in your home are two ENTIRELY different things.
c'mon.
try again
If youre looking for a perfect exact replica Im sure I cant satisfy you. Feel free to ignore the others all you like. I pity you. You live in the past and refuse to try to grow. Youre the problem not the solution.
