Off Topic · Lost Final Season (page 6)
Jack is sitting on the beach cooking up a fish. Locke comes walking in.
LOCKE: Morning.
JACK: Mornin'.
LOCKE: Mind if I join you?
JACK: [Shaking his head] Please. Want some fish?
LOCKE: Thank you. I just ate.
[Locke sits down not far away.]
JACK: I take it you're here 'cause of the ship.
LOCKE: I am. How did they find the Island?
JACK: You'll have to ask 'em when they get here.
LOCKE: I don't have to ask. You brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong, aren't you?
JACK: You are wrong.
LOCKE: Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.
JACK: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.
eViL wrote:that last episode was kinda wack
writing has been a little shakey lately. llana blowing up was weak and then richard immediately wanting to go get more dynamite was just stupid...especially since at the end he said they had grenades. makes me think the whole airplane thing is a huge red herring.
jimimou wrote:anyone else think desmond is jacob reincarnated?
well he certainly is in the alt-timeline.
eViL wrote:that last episode was kinda wack
yeah, i have to agree with you especially after two awesome shows. i am hoping that this is a bridge gap but it seems it is leading to something anti-climatic, especially at the end. however, lost has surprised me before so we will see where they go from here nxt week.
jazz74 wrote:eViL wrote:that last episode was kinda wackyeah, i have to agree with you especially after two awesome shows. i am hoping that this is a bridge gap but it seems it is leading to something anti-climatic, especially at the end. however, lost has surprised me before so we will see where they go from here nxt week.
and another thing - this season has certainly lacked the t&a factor we've come used to seeing in the past....
jazz74 wrote:eViL wrote:that last episode was kinda wackyeah, i have to agree with you especially after two awesome shows. i am hoping that this is a bridge gap but it seems it is leading to something anti-climatic, especially at the end. however, lost has surprised me before so we will see where they go from here nxt week.
i'm still thinking that none of this is really happening. they keep saying "we will all be gone" or "we will cease to exist". it further drives the point to me that we're not talking about real living people but people in some sort of virtual reality or video game or something like that. unless the big reveal is what many guessed in season 1 is that it's purgatory (despite what tptb denied). and by purgatory i don't mean the island is purgatory...but people are in their own purgatory b/c they haven't forgiven themselves or moved on from what they're suffering for.
djsunyc wrote:eViL wrote:that last episode was kinda wackwriting has been a little shakey lately. llana blowing up was weak and then richard immediately wanting to go get more dynamite was just stupid...especially since at the end he said they had grenades. makes me think the whole airplane thing is a huge red herring.
yep. and who was even surprised when MIB threw desmond down the well?
MIB "Why aren't you scared"
Desmond "Because i know you're going to throw me down this well so get it over with already, Brotha."
nyk4ever wrote:jimimou wrote:anyone else think desmond is jacob reincarnated?well he certainly is in the alt-timeline.
desmond can't be reincarnated b/c that would throw the whole candidate storyline out the window...
djsunyc wrote:nyk4ever wrote:jimimou wrote:anyone else think desmond is jacob reincarnated?well he certainly is in the alt-timeline.
desmond can't be reincarnated b/c that would throw the whole candidate storyline out the window...
thought about this some more. bear with me here:
desmond has been permanently changed due to his 2 electromagnetic exposure experiences and it finally all came to light when widmore exposed him for the 2nd time. that would explain why desmond is so calm being tied to a tree, thrown down a well by locke and the way he responds to widmore after the 2nd electro exposure. desmond has seen the end game and is working on his own to ensure all of the other losties see it also - and hopefully they all realize both timelines exist. waiting to see how the writers mesh the two together and what that ultimately means for the ending of the show.
and, after being shown the way to jar back old memories by charlie in a near death car crash, he realized a few things. like, near death experience or very emotional experiences can help to jar the memories of the losties in the alternate timeline of their on-island counterlives (i.e.: he is using these theories to try to reconnect the losties in the alt time line to each other to jar their island memories so that they are able to stop mib from getting off the island).
that's why i believe he told hurley to not give up on libby - then when he and libby kissed on the beach - hurley's memories came back.....i think the same is the case for how he runs over locke with his car - i see 2 things here. one - the near death experience will help trigger locke's memories of the island and two - it will reconnect locke to jack who will heal his spine making locke walk again and perhaps jarring jack's memories of the island as well.
with all that said, im beginning to think that desmond, not jacob, is the MIB's true nemisis here as desmond is working to expose the truth in the alt timeline hoping that there is a connection that jars the memories of those on the island as well....
btw - juliet was the only other lostie to get caught in a similar electro magnetic experience as powerful as desmonds. so i'm wondering when we'll see her again, if at all.
One of my favorite eps is Ab Aeterno. It is chock full of clues. Here's some of the things I noticed and how it might clear some things up about who is special and why and how this all came to be a reality for Jacob and MIB. BTW if someone else has posted this or something similar, I apologize. There's just too many theories to read them all anymore.Here goes.
1. For the first time we get an idea of what time was like on the island before MIB decided to try and kill Jacob. I think we can safely assume that the final meeting between the two in that episode was not from the current time but from the time of the Black Rock. He still has the wine bottle that he was sharing with Richard and Smokey still looks like MIB and not Locke. He is also carrying the stone Richard gave him, and Jacob is still alive.
JACOB: So you tried to kill me?
MIB: Do you expect an apologie?Here we have proof that it wasn't until the time of the Black Rock that MIB first tried to kill Jacob and so I think Jacob was obviously referring to Richard's pathetic attempt to "Kill the Devil."
2. Next in that conversation we get the idea that Jacob is surprised by this.
JACCOB: No. I guess I'm just wondering why you did it.
MIB: Because I want to leave. Just let me leave, Jacob.This whole conversation sounds like someone who really doesn't want to kill another person but is at the end of his rope. It's also kind of like a conversation between two friends or brothers. Very familiar. An old friend who tries to kill you would definitely surprise you a little. A brother even more so. It really has the feel that somehow one of them at some point became infected with something and the other one had to quarantine him until he was better. More on this in a bit.
3. Jacobs conversation with Richard, (after he whooped dude's ass) is also telling.
RICHARD: Are you the Devil?
JACOB: No.
RICHARD: Then who are you?
JACOB: My name is Jacob. I'm the one who brought your ship to this island.
RICHARD: You brought it here? Why?
JACOB: Think of this wine as what you keep calling hell. There's many other names for it too: malevolence, evil, darkness. And here it is, swirling around in the bottle, unable to get out because if it did, it would spread. The cork [raises cork] is this island and it's the only thing keeping the darkness where it belongs. That man who sent you to kill me believes that everyone is corruptable because it's in their very nature to sin. I bring people here to prove him wrong. And when they get here, their past doesn't matter.
RICHARD: Before you brought my ship, there were others?
JACOB: Yes, many.
RICHARD: What happened to them?
JACOB: They're all dead.
RICHARD: But if you brought them here. Why didn't you help them?
JACOB: Because I wanted them to help themselves. To know the difference between right and wrong without me having to tell them. It's all meaningless if I have to force them to do anything. Why should I have to step in?Now we start to see an even better picture forming of how life extisted on the island before MIB started his campaign to kill Jacob. Jacob brings people to the island and tries to prove to MIB that people are not all corruptable and its not in their very nature to sin. When they get there their past doesn't matter. They get a blank slate. Which means that everyone that arrives on the island gets an equal opportunity to prove that they are better people than con men, killers, thieves, and drug addicts. They get equal treatment and consideration from Jacob and the hero doctor and adorable lottery winner are no better in his eyes than all the criminals. Blanket forgiveness. But it's Jacob's forgiveness not God's. Jacob can't offer them God's forgiveness because he's not God. He couldn't absolve Richard of his sins. And this time Richard had plenty of time to do penance. So Jacob is neither the Devil or God.
3. So what happened to all of these poor people that Jacob keeps bringing to the island. They all died. Everyone of them. Sure some succombed to an errant cliff popping up in their path but most I'm gonna guess succumb to smoke inhalation. So where did they go? More on that in a bit, but we now know that Jacob brings living people to the island so that he can try and prove to MIB that they are good. He snatches them from the real world and puts them through a test where the only outcome is that they prove him right or they die. Sound like a benevolent God to you? It really sounds more similar to a mad scientist. A guy who keeps running his experiment because he is so sure of his formula that he believes if he keeps trying, his hypothesis will eventually be proven correct. Only problem with this mad scientist is that his subjects keep dying. His theory is right but he can't seem to get a subject to live long enough to prove it.
Soooo with that clear picture in our head about how things have progressed on the island lets start to do some theorizing.
If we know that Jacob is looking for that incorruptable soul and that he has been doing this for quite some time, we can safely say that the other names on the cave wall and in the lighthouse represent other people he has brought to the island for his experiment. We can also safely say that he might call these people candidates. Someone who would fit the bill of an incorruptable soul. SO are these candidates there to prove Jacob right or to take his place as we've all been told? Maybe both. And maybe more.
What if Jacob originally brought "candidates" to the island to prove MIB wrong but since the Black Rock he now has to find someone who will replace him when MIB finally finds his loophole and succeeds in killing him. And who better to keep the evil quarantined than an incorruptable soul. But the right candidate needs to be more than that. They need to be "special."
We know that Smokey has been described as a security system and Jacob talks about protecting the island. So maybe the real question isn't who are these guys but what are they protecting? What is the island?
I believe that the island IS the cork that holds back the evil. But wait I thought Smokey was the evil. Not so fast.Smokey's original job is to protect the island so that it can continue to hold back evil....right? This tells me that Smokey isn't evil per se. But if he leaves, the island isn't protected anymore and the cork will no longer be able to hold the evil in the bottle. His and Jacob's presence is necessary for keeping the evil in the bottle and if he leaves after killing Jacob, he will unleash all of this mysterious evil into the real world and it would no longer be contained on the island.
So here's the crux of my theory:
The island is a doorway to all other dimensions. Through this doorway can come beings of either incredible goodness or incredible badness. Or anywhere in between. The door on this side was found or built by men but the door from the other side was found by some form of unspeakable evil. Call it hell, malevolence, darkness, whatever. This evil is represented as the electromagnetic pockets on the island.
A long time ago two men were sent to the island to keep the evil from escaping and they were chosen because they each exhibited special magnetic properties. These men were Jacob and MIB. The evil wants through but MIB and Jacob's special magnetic properties keep it corked. If they leave, the electromagnetic properties of the island will be greatly increased and the island will be unable to hold back the evil as was it's true purpose.
So is Smokey evil? No but this half of a once ingenious security system at some time becomes infected with the very evil he was trying to help hold back. I believe that Smokey was once a man with a real body. Notice how Sayid says he can't feel anything. Remember how the evil seems to keep growing in him? That is exactly what happened to Smokey. He had a human form at one time. Eventually he evolved into the epitome of evil, a man that can turn to Black Smoke. That is the outcome of the infection. The outcome is not that he becomes evil but that the evil infection makes him lose all of his humanity and feeling. He becomes void inside. Remember when he takes the first bite of Mango as Flocke? It was as if he were tasting things he hadn't tasted in a long time.
So we have two protectors. One becomes infected and the other then has to keep him on the island without leaving the island himself. As the darkness grows in MIB it convinces him that the island is just an island and it doesn't need protecting. As a counter measure to this Jacob keeps bringing people to the island to try and prove to his infected friend that people can fight this evil from the inside and become good again (Anakin...). They can get back that "I'm ALIVE!" feeling. MIB is unmoved however because he has lost all feeling. In fact everyone that Jacob brings to the island only seems to confirm his belief that humans are corruptable and naturally sin. MIB wants to leave because the evil inside has convinced him that humans are too prone to evil and that he is only delaying the inevitable. His evil will spread sooner or later. His presence there is pointless.
Once MIB succeeded in killing Jacob he was the only thing left protecting the island and keeping the evil at bay. If he leaves before another "Special" person gets there to replace Jacob then the evil electromagnetism will escape and destroy the world.
This is where Desmond comes into play. He is either a permanent or temporary replacement for Jacob's magnetic properties. He may not be Jacob's replacement permanently, he could just really be a finger in the dike until the real candidate can take Jacob's place. That's why Widmore tested him. To make sure he could hold back the evil. If Smokey does succeed in leaving then the evil will still be contained. See since Smokey can't feel anymore he can't remember the fear that he too felt when he was scared that the evil would escape. Back then he understood his job. He knew fear and love and pain and pleasure. He didn't want that evil to hurt his loved ones off island. But now he feels nothing.
That is the real threat here and a good description of the evil being contained. If it escapes the island, it will infect everyone and gradually all human kind will be void of feeling. People could commit sin on top of sin and no one would feel bad for it. They would have no moral compass.
Oh and what happens to the poor souls that Jacob keeps bringing to the island to prove his point? Well I believe these are all people that were destined to die in say a ship wreck or a plane crash but instead Jacob saves their lives and gives them another chance at redemption. When they fail him and die their souls must stay on the island because they can't be allowed to return to the land of the living as they are supposed to be dead in the real world. And the evil they committed is being held back the same way the island is holding the elctro-evil back. They can't interact with the living unless that living person has a special ability like Hugo, but we can hear their whispers and occasionally catch a glimpse of them. Once these people pass away they understand what the island is and what is needed to keep the evil at bay. For this reason I believe that the Whispers are on Jacob's side, helping in anyway they can to keep the evil from making a dramatic exit.
So even though Jacob's actions at first seem anything but compassionate or noble to the people he brings there, he did save their lives and give them one last chance at redemption. Just like he gave Richard. Before the Black Rock left Richard's outlook was grim. He committed murder and didn't have enough time to do penance before he was hanged. When he asked Jacob for absolution Jacob couldn't give it but he could give him time to seek the redemption he needed.
One more thing. Who is the most incorruptable candidate we have seen so far? Who is most likely to take Jacob's place? I say Hurley. He didn't want to lie even to save the lives of the people back on the island when the O6 went back home. He has done hardly anything to hurt any other people on the island or off. He never has a bad intention. Even when he sees Michael for the second time he asks the man who killed his Libby if there is anything he can do to help him. And just like Jacob he believes that anyone can come back from the dark side just like Anakin did. Just like MIB can.
SO my theory ends with this: Jacob is dead, MIB WILL BE dead and there will be a need for two other very special people to protect the island. Hurley will be one of them. He's number 8. The next candidates number is the one that follows that number throughout the show, number 15. Sawyer. We haven't been privy to these guys' electromagnetic properties YET, but that doesn't mean they don't have any. Sawyer will be a good guy to start but eventually he will become infected because he is not incorruptable like Hurley and the whole thing will start all over again. But at first they will protect the island as friends. Just like Jacob and MIB.
ONe more note of interest. Why is Jacob not talking to Hurley anymore. Because unbeknownst to Hurley he has already replaced Jacob and Jacob can't help him anymore. He is no longer the candidate and is now the White Rock. He is now a full-blown Jedi.
Anyway I hope you enjoyed this theory even if you don't agree with it. Thanks for sticking around, to those that made it all the way through
I love this theory, but it doesn't account for the story-within-a-story that LOST is likely to be. There are many clues that the characters are all computer programs (or viruses in some cases): the "infection", the QUARANTINE, "copying" Locke's body then "infecting" it with MiB's personality, the "mirror timeline" (mirror site), the lighthouse "tower" (think computer tower), etc.We're likely to get one resolution like yours that ties up the human aspects of the show, that explains the main plot points in terms of the characters as they've been presented to us, but then expect a twist ending that makes us go "Aha!" (like them all being computer programs) and once we think we understand everything, there'll be a quick double twist with a bigger reveals (like turtles all the way down, simulations of simulations, with perhaps no real beginning), then LOST (queue the slamming door sound).
One story, three endings.
i quite like the thought of it all being associated with computer programs tho...
name was crossed off in the cave.
smokey believes it.
even sawyer believes it.
but jacob did touch little katie and she ain't dead.
so what is the purpose of the long con?
...after last night...the end is near...next week with jacob/smokey looks to be a big one.
finale is now 2.5 hours long.
djsunyc wrote:kate = the long conname was crossed off in the cave.
smokey believes it.
even sawyer believes it.
but jacob did touch little katie and she ain't dead.
so what is the purpose of the long con?
...after last night...the end is near...next week with jacob/smokey looks to be a big one.
finale is now 2.5 hours long.
last nights show was NUTS! cant believe they have an impact show like this with three more episodes. however (spoiler)
officially all of the minorities are killed off of this show. thts some bull@#$%!
djsunyc wrote:kate = the long conname was crossed off in the cave.
smokey believes it.
even sawyer believes it.
but jacob did touch little katie and she ain't dead.
so what is the purpose of the long con?
...after last night...the end is near...next week with jacob/smokey looks to be a big one.
finale is now 2.5 hours long.
why do you think kate = long con?
kam77 wrote:this weeks show sucked. the whole season has been sub-par.
wow, you didn't like that episode kam? personally, i thought it was awesome, it was a great way to setup the rest of the series, while not being a wasted episode.
In this episode I didn't like how the whole thing in the SUB went down. First of all, what was with the sissy pushing of MIB into the water? What was that supposed to do? What was Sawyer talking about when he told Jack to do that?
Also, with 5 minutes to spare why not move the bomb to another part of the sub in the first place, it is a sub after all, with many steel doors that could've insulated instead of waiting for Sayid to play hero as well as martyr himself? Then... why does Sun happily accept that her child will grow up without a father instead of making Jin leave her to die. Jin and Sayid only died because the writers had to use for them anymore. Just like Ilana. It makes me wonder what roles Ben and Richard and Miles are left to play... or will they be similarly 'handled'.