NYKBocker wrote:Nalod wrote:TMS, Hollywood caters to the american taste.Didn't Pierce bronson's last Bond movie he had an Asian women who could fight and helped him? She was a hero.
Im not saying your not right, but HOllywood makes movies for Western consumption.
I think you'd have to look at Asian made movies for the asian perspective, not american made movies.
Is that fair? ITs what people want to see and where they are watching from. American movies have always been popular overseas because of the big budget and special effects. I would say the Asian market is huge and lots of movies made have the bigger budget. I do rent foriegn movies a bit and the characters are quite complex at times.
Regarding your tastes and posting pics of pretty women you can justify it as your values but they are posted as sex objects and not as mothers, school teachers, or any intelectual quality. Men do this. Nothing wrong, but look at the snaggle tooth school girl look women. Its revered in some cultures but kinda creepy in another.
Just Rap and Rock and Roll portray women as sluts. Italians and Russians are mobsters, Jews are petty, Irish are drinkers, Wasps are uptight, and Asians are good with gadgets or martial art experts. White males are the hero, the villian, the winner and the losers.
Stereotypes are more intersting then mainstream I suppose. Its what sells.
Michele Yeoh was cast as a special agent for the Chinese Government. They got the casting on this one right.
Western consumption? So white america is the only consumer for hollywood?
When they casted the primary players for the movie they were looking for caucascian actors. When they needed extras they were looking for ethnic people. Nice.
Bocker, Nalod and I have been talking about movies in general, you keep focusing on "Avatar: The Last Airbender". Of course it's stupid to hire white people to play ethnic roles especially when the role itself is defined by it as with the movie you refer to.
In general, movies made by Hollywood do often-times focus on the largest potential audience, ie white folk.
NYKBocker wrote:Nalod wrote:TMS, Hollywood caters to the american taste.Didn't Pierce bronson's last Bond movie he had an Asian women who could fight and helped him? She was a hero.
Im not saying your not right, but HOllywood makes movies for Western consumption.
I think you'd have to look at Asian made movies for the asian perspective, not american made movies.
Is that fair? ITs what people want to see and where they are watching from. American movies have always been popular overseas because of the big budget and special effects. I would say the Asian market is huge and lots of movies made have the bigger budget. I do rent foriegn movies a bit and the characters are quite complex at times.
Regarding your tastes and posting pics of pretty women you can justify it as your values but they are posted as sex objects and not as mothers, school teachers, or any intelectual quality. Men do this. Nothing wrong, but look at the snaggle tooth school girl look women. Its revered in some cultures but kinda creepy in another.
Just Rap and Rock and Roll portray women as sluts. Italians and Russians are mobsters, Jews are petty, Irish are drinkers, Wasps are uptight, and Asians are good with gadgets or martial art experts. White males are the hero, the villian, the winner and the losers.
Stereotypes are more intersting then mainstream I suppose. Its what sells.
Michele Yeoh was cast as a special agent for the Chinese Government. They got the casting on this one right.
Western consumption? So white america is the only consumer for hollywood?
When they casted the primary players for the movie they were looking for caucascian actors. When they needed extras they were looking for ethnic people. Nice.
I don't think that that was he meant. I think Nalod was simply implying that they're going to do whatever they feel will make the most money. In the general sense, the trend of trying to squeeze out every last dollar instead of simply focusing on making the best quality product has always bothered me. That being said, I'm not sure I understand the controversy here.
I have not seen "airbender" so I can't qualify.
I saw "Avatar" and don't know why they did not use native blue actors. The "Blue Meanies" from YelloW Submarine aged out along time ago.
Im speaking in general terms about American movies. I rent lots of foriegn films and they are not made for american audiances.
Back in the day Hollywood was brutal to cast its stars in roles to play other nationalities. Its what makes busness sense. Titanic is a piece of garbage movie but it killed it at the box office. Best movies are not blockbusters. People want to see who they want to see.
If your offended by a movie, don't buy it, don't rent it, or don't support it. Free enterprise dictates preference.
Michele Yeoh was great in "
one of the few movies I own. I don't watch the dubbed in english because it sounds cheesy compared to the natvie tongue.
This movie did well here but was not made for american consumption but for asian.
If so Brad Pitt would be man and Jennifer Lopez the lead lady!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nalod wrote:TMS, Hollywood caters to the american taste.Didn't Pierce bronson's last Bond movie he had an Asian women who could fight and helped him? She was a hero.
Im not saying your not right, but HOllywood makes movies for Western consumption.
I think you'd have to look at Asian made movies for the asian perspective, not american made movies.
Is that fair? ITs what people want to see and where they are watching from. American movies have always been popular overseas because of the big budget and special effects. I would say the Asian market is huge and lots of movies made have the bigger budget. I do rent foriegn movies a bit and the characters are quite complex at times.
Regarding your tastes and posting pics of pretty women you can justify it as your values but they are posted as sex objects and not as mothers, school teachers, or any intelectual quality. Men do this. Nothing wrong, but look at the snaggle tooth school girl look women. Its revered in some cultures but kinda creepy in another.
Just Rap and Rock and Roll portray women as sluts. Italians and Russians are mobsters, Jews are petty, Irish are drinkers, Wasps are uptight, and Asians are good with gadgets or martial art experts. White males are the hero, the villian, the winner and the losers.
Stereotypes are more intersting then mainstream I suppose. Its what sells.
as long as Hollywood chooses to perpetuate those stereotypes, they will continue to exist... it wasn't that long ago that the thought of a black male cast in a leading role with a white woman was considered taboo & unacceptable in this country.
Nalod wrote:I have not seen "airbender" so I can't qualify.I saw "Avatar" and don't know why they did not use native blue actors. The "Blue Meanies" from YelloW Submarine aged out along time ago.
Im speaking in general terms about American movies. I rent lots of foriegn films and they are not made for american audiances.
Back in the day Hollywood was brutal to cast its stars in roles to play other nationalities. Its what makes busness sense. Titanic is a piece of garbage movie but it killed it at the box office. Best movies are not blockbusters. People want to see who they want to see.
If your offended by a movie, don't buy it, don't rent it, or don't support it. Free enterprise dictates preference.
Michele Yeoh was great in "
one of the few movies I own. I don't watch the dubbed in english because it sounds cheesy compared to the natvie tongue.
This movie did well here but was not made for american consumption but for asian.
If so Brad Pitt would be man and Jennifer Lopez the lead lady!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is your only example you can draw from? first of all that was not a Hollywood movie... second, u just succeeded in reinforcing my point... unless the movie is about martial arts, it's rare to see an Asian male such as Chow Yun Fat cast in a romantic leading role in a movie that is marketed here in the States.
martin wrote:NYKBocker wrote:TMS wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Nalod and TMS, you both have very good points, but in terms of movies, aren't the actors and actresses and models partaking in those roles equally as guilty?
I have mixed feelings about this, while I am disgusted at the process, I am also not blaming these actors that are going after these parts. They are just trying to make a living and perform their craft.
Now, in regards with M Night and Paramount they have failed miserably. This is their casting call for "The Last Airbender" .. "Caucasians or any other ethnicity".
i don't blame the actors, they're all trying to pay their bills like the rest of us are... i'm sure there are countless Asian actors & actresses that audition for bigger roles in movies & are rejected... either there are no talented Asian actors in this country, or the Hollywood studios are practicing a selective form of racism when casting their movies.
The last asian that was cast as a hero in hollywood and had non-asian leading ladies was Brandon Lee (RIP).
EDIT: Come to think of it, I think he is the ONLY asian cast by hollywood as a hero with non-asian leading ladies. You can't count Jet Li and Jackie Chan.
are you really surprised by this? What's the count of leading white males making movies in Asia?
minimalizing the significance of racist stereotypes for Asian Americans in this country doesn't hide the problem of its existence martin... we live in the States, the "melting pot" as it were... if the same kinds of issues of Hollywood stereotypes were a valid issue to discuss in the 50s, 60s & 70s concerning African Americans, why can't Asians bring up their objections over similar issues in the new millenium? is this country only concerned with black & white issues?
For a long time the only roles black people got in movies were of the maid, or the butler. In the last 20 years the black judge role has come into vogue. And more recently, policeman. Still waiting for that first black firefighter role tho! Don't think i've seen one yet.
In fact, since the Cosby show where are all the Black Doctors? Yeah there was one in SCRUBS. But that was a sitcom.
NYKBocker wrote:Nalod wrote:TMS, Hollywood caters to the american taste.Didn't Pierce bronson's last Bond movie he had an Asian women who could fight and helped him? She was a hero.
Im not saying your not right, but HOllywood makes movies for Western consumption.
I think you'd have to look at Asian made movies for the asian perspective, not american made movies.
Is that fair? ITs what people want to see and where they are watching from. American movies have always been popular overseas because of the big budget and special effects. I would say the Asian market is huge and lots of movies made have the bigger budget. I do rent foriegn movies a bit and the characters are quite complex at times.
Regarding your tastes and posting pics of pretty women you can justify it as your values but they are posted as sex objects and not as mothers, school teachers, or any intelectual quality. Men do this. Nothing wrong, but look at the snaggle tooth school girl look women. Its revered in some cultures but kinda creepy in another.
Just Rap and Rock and Roll portray women as sluts. Italians and Russians are mobsters, Jews are petty, Irish are drinkers, Wasps are uptight, and Asians are good with gadgets or martial art experts. White males are the hero, the villian, the winner and the losers.
Stereotypes are more intersting then mainstream I suppose. Its what sells.
Michele Yeoh was cast as a special agent for the Chinese Government. They got the casting on this one right.
Western consumption? So white america is the only consumer for hollywood?
When they casted the primary players for the movie they were looking for caucascian actors. When they needed extras they were looking for ethnic people. Nice.
casting Michelle Yeoh in that role beside a leading white male only serves to prove my point further... yes, i realize James Bond is not an Asian character... funny, but neither are the main characters in the Avatar story caucasian.
kam77 wrote:For a long time the only roles black people got in movies were of the maid, or the butler. In the last 20 years the black judge role has come into vogue. And more recently, policeman. Still waiting for that first black firefighter role tho! Don't think i've seen one yet.In fact, since the Cosby show where are all the Black Doctors? Yeah there was one in SCRUBS. But that was a sitcom.
that's exactly my point... this kind of illicit racism & stereotyping by Hollywood has existed for a long time & it only serves to strengthen the prevalent attitudes in this country by exposing the masses to it over & over again... until those stereotypes begin to be challenged, nothing will change.
TMS wrote:Nalod wrote:I have not seen "airbender" so I can't qualify.I saw "Avatar" and don't know why they did not use native blue actors. The "Blue Meanies" from YelloW Submarine aged out along time ago.
Im speaking in general terms about American movies. I rent lots of foriegn films and they are not made for american audiances.
Back in the day Hollywood was brutal to cast its stars in roles to play other nationalities. Its what makes busness sense. Titanic is a piece of garbage movie but it killed it at the box office. Best movies are not blockbusters. People want to see who they want to see.
If your offended by a movie, don't buy it, don't rent it, or don't support it. Free enterprise dictates preference.
Michele Yeoh was great in "
one of the few movies I own. I don't watch the dubbed in english because it sounds cheesy compared to the natvie tongue.
This movie did well here but was not made for american consumption but for asian.
If so Brad Pitt would be man and Jennifer Lopez the lead lady!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is your only example you can draw from? first of all that was not a Hollywood movie... second, u just succeeded in reinforcing my point... unless the movie is about martial arts, it's rare to see an Asian male such as Chow Yun Fat cast in a romantic leading role in a movie that is marketed here in the States.
I said it was not made for American audiance.
Movies are cast to box office draw. Supply and demand.
Hollywood don't care about race. It sells movies. If it make money, they will cast a middle Eastern Superman if could produce.
Is it Hollywood that drives it or the intended audience?
Is white America wants Asian leads they will cast them.
White America didn't want Black males cast in roles with White women but the opinions started to change... Hollywood played a huge role in that change.
TMS wrote:White America didn't want Black males cast in roles with White women but the opinions started to change... Hollywood played a huge role in that change.
So you think Hollywood leads social change?
Nalod wrote:TMS wrote:White America didn't want Black males cast in roles with White women but the opinions started to change... Hollywood played a huge role in that change.
So you think Hollywood leads social change?
i think the media has a huge impact on influencing popular opinion, & as such can play a vital role in effecting social change... you can point to how once controversial topics that were tackled by some groundbreaking movies & television shows that were once considered taboo are now accepted everyday culture in this country... the Jeffersons sitcom is a prime example... Good Times another... these types of shows gave a glimpse into African American viewpoints on social issues at the time.
TMS wrote:Nalod wrote:TMS wrote:White America didn't want Black males cast in roles with White women but the opinions started to change... Hollywood played a huge role in that change.
So you think Hollywood leads social change?
i think the media has a huge impact on influencing popular opinion, & as such can play a vital role in effecting social change... you can point to how once controversial topics that were tackled by some groundbreaking movies & television shows that were once considered taboo are now accepted everyday culture in this country... the Jeffersons sitcom is a prime example... Good Times another... these types of shows gave a glimpse into African American viewpoints on social issues at the time.
Roots was also another tv show that affected popular opinion and affected social change.
NYKBocker wrote:TMS wrote:Nalod wrote:TMS wrote:White America didn't want Black males cast in roles with White women but the opinions started to change... Hollywood played a huge role in that change.
So you think Hollywood leads social change?
i think the media has a huge impact on influencing popular opinion, & as such can play a vital role in effecting social change... you can point to how once controversial topics that were tackled by some groundbreaking movies & television shows that were once considered taboo are now accepted everyday culture in this country... the Jeffersons sitcom is a prime example... Good Times another... these types of shows gave a glimpse into African American viewpoints on social issues at the time.
Roots was also another tv show that affected popular opinion and affected social change.
it's sad that the closest chance Asians have ever had to portray their culture on television was when Bruce Lee played the non speaking role of Kato on the Green Hornet, or when Bobby Kim played comedic satire poking fun at Korean soap operas on Mad TV (which was damn hilarious btw)... i think Margaret Cho tried her hand at a TV sitcom once but it failed... i mean it's Margaret Cho, who didn't see that coming? but i gotta give her props for at least trying.
speaking of Bruce Lee, he came up with the idea of the show "Kung Fu" back in the day... the main character was supposed to be cast as an Asian martial arts hero who travelled the West helping people & promoted the ideals of ShaoLin Kungfu... instead Hollywood decided an Asian leading man would never work so they cast the role with a white David Carradine & concocted a story about how he was adopted into the Shaolin Temple as a child & taught Kung Fu, completely stealing Bruce Lee's idea & screwing him out of his concept... sometimes all it takes is one ballsy producer, writer or director who's willing to break new ground on a television show or a big budget movie to start to plant the seeds that can eventually help shape popular opinions in this country... people are highly influenced by what they see in the media.
Don't forget the "Johnny Yune Show". Comedian from "they call me Bruce" movies.
TMS, If Bruce lee did Kung fu it might not have done as well. Maybe Carradine was a better vehicle to deliver the "dicipline" of the martial arts teaching a whole generation of the Arts. If Lee did the show and it failed the exposure would be less.
ALso, don't forget China was a closed society and the Hong Kong exposure was thru its movies. Hong Kong was a British Colony.
With Many Veterans of Korea and the Pacific Theatre of WWII watching TV and going to movies perhaps many were not ready to accept mainstream Asian culture. Many Vietnamese have migrated to North Carolina and over the years they have blended in nice but it took time. Ignorant or not, the mainstream only eposure was that we were at war with them at one time.
Japan and Germany once our enemy within 30 years were admired for their manufacturing and efficiency in their respected economy. In the 50's and 60s they were still portrayed as goofy.
I think it takes time and influence to bring unknown cultures to the mainstream.
And Visa Versa.
When I go to some neighborhoods in NYC and see only foriegn language store fronts it sends a message: That I am not really welcome there. Im sure there were not all that welcome to begin with when they populated the area so they seem to be "taking care of there own".
This "Ghetto" is the same effect for all. Irish, Jews, Germans, Italians all a century earlier all had there section of town but eventually generations branch out. Im sure the same will occur in NYC. Thats the history.
We are a melting pot of all in tis country. The only other country with our kind of diversity is actually Israel. THink about it, what other country has done what we have? ITs far from perfect and TMS your points are all correct.
I appreciate your view point.
Im not tryingo to argue it btw: just saying its "business". That don't make it right.
i agree with your point & i appreciate your counterpoints Nalod, they have validity to them as much as we'd all like there to be no stereotypes of races existing they do & will always exist as long as people are ignorant to the cultures of the different ethnicities that make up this country... & you're right, i doubt the show "Kung Fu" would have succeeded had Bruce Lee been cast as the lead in the show he created because of the close minded viewpoints of the times regarding people of other races living in this country... it's too bad many of those close minded views still exist today.
TMS wrote:i agree with your point & i appreciate your counterpoints Nalod, they have validity to them as much as we'd all like there to be no stereotypes of races existing they do & will always exist as long as people are ignorant to the cultures of the different ethnicities that make up this country... & you're right, i doubt the show "Kung Fu" would have succeeded had Bruce Lee been cast as the lead in the show he created because of the close minded viewpoints of the times regarding people of other races living in this country... it's too bad many of those close minded views still exist today.
perhaps I misunderstand you, but are stereotypes a bad thing, in general? Isn't it just a general way to describe a culture or people?
From wikipedia: "A stereotype is a commonly held public belief about specific social groups or types of individuals. The concepts of "stereotype" and "prejudice" are often confused with many other different meanings. Stereotypes are standardized and simplified conceptions of groups based on some prior assumptions. Generally speaking, stereotypes are not based on objective truth but rather subjective and sometimes unverifiable content-matter."
