Off Topic · So Helen Thomas said something recently (page 1)

We cover a lot of stuff on here. Some taboo subject matters as well. But I haven't seen anything on here about the matter. Could be wrong. Any thoughts on what she said and the reaction/firestorm she faced afterward.

If you are unsure of what I'm talking about...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQcQdWBqt14&feature=player_embedded#![/YouTube]

LOL! Whats to say? She said it all. I for one would like to share in Helens disappointment about the jews ever leaving Germany. We should have stayed. What could possibly go wrong there when it was such a cozy and inviting place? And can you believe all these people running around spouting lies about "death camps" and "Zyklon B"!! Get real people, noones ever hated jews just for being jewish. They love us here in Germany and Poland!!

Helen is of lebonese decent which gives reason to her comment. Her mind left her and now she has followed Elvis and left the building.g

Her comments were so over-the-top disgusting that I didn't think it was worth giving her any thread time. She probably was drinking and her real inner feeling were expressed. Here is part of her bio from Wikipedia:

Thomas was born in Winchester, Kentucky. Her parents, George Thomas and Mary (née Rowady), were Lebanese immigrants from Tripoli, Lebanon; her father's surname had originally been "Antonious" before being anglicized to Thomas at Ellis Island. Thomas was raised as a Christian in the Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch.

Well, what a surprise. She is first generation Lebanese-American. So much for the press being fair and unbiased.

This incident is really a shame to have happened as she had done a lot for woman's rights. But now, "get helen the hell out of America's press corp."

This incident also shows just how deeply emotional this issue is for everyone ....Jews and Arabs and Palestinians. Even people with strong intellects can't think straight on this. Their emotions and biases overshadow any clear reasoning..

Again, the only way to resolve this issue and create peace is to eliminate the stress in the collective consciousness and in the individuals. When you look at a green forest, it looks green because all/most of the individual trees are green. Ah, grasshopper, a peaceful world consists of peaceful individuals. (Just throwing in some eastern philosophy.)

I'm more interested to hear what you guys think of forced retirement for what she said. I agree what she said was insane but I'm surprised that one is debating the force retirement issue. I remember the Imus incident where we debated the suspension. I agree that she should have been forced out but I remember many were against the Imus firing concerning free speech.

Pharzeone wrote:I'm more interested to hear what you guys think of forced retirement for what she said. I agree what she said was insane but I'm surprised that one is debating the force retirement issue. I remember the Imus incident where we debated the suspension. I agree that she should have been forced out but I remember many were against the Imus firing concerning free speech.

forced retirement or did she resign?

i dont think she resigned, she's still working martin

martin wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:I'm more interested to hear what you guys think of forced retirement for what she said. I agree what she said was insane but I'm surprised that one is debating the force retirement issue. I remember the Imus incident where we debated the suspension. I agree that she should have been forced out but I remember many were against the Imus firing concerning free speech.

forced retirement or did she resign?

At first it was reported that she just resigned but now I see and hear on MSNBC, Fox and CNN that Helen Thomas was forced into retirement by Hearst. I guessing that she didn't want to go and told her colleagues as such.

Pharzeone wrote:

martin wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:I'm more interested to hear what you guys think of forced retirement for what she said. I agree what she said was insane but I'm surprised that one is debating the force retirement issue. I remember the Imus incident where we debated the suspension. I agree that she should have been forced out but I remember many were against the Imus firing concerning free speech.

forced retirement or did she resign?

At first it was reported that she just resigned but now I see and hear on MSNBC, Fox and CNN that Helen Thomas was forced into retirement by Hearst. I guessing that she didn't want to go and told her colleagues as such.

didnt realize she 'resigned' the other day...apparently, there's a part 2 to the video:

By Tim Graham (Bio | Archive)
Mon, 06/07/2010 - 12:48 ET

Via Politico, Hearst Newspapers columnist Thomas issued a statement today: "I deeply regret my comments I made last week regarding the Israelis and the Palestinians. They do not reflect my heart-felt belief that peace will come to the Middle East only when all parties recognize the need for mutual respect and tolerance. May that day come soon."

Michael Calderone at Yahoo! News reports that a second half of the Thomas interview is yet to come from Rabbi David Nesenoff and his site RabbiLive.com, and the first half was delayed while the rabbi's 17-year-old webmaster son finished his finals:

Although she's apologized, Nesenoff said Thomas should do more, and "the only way to fix it is to become a poster child for tolerance and non-hatred."

Next, Nesenoff said that in a day or so, he'll release part two of the interview, but was tight-lipped about what else Thomas said that day.
"Part two will be very interesting to watch," he said, adding that Thomas is in it "100 percent" of the time.

Pharzeone wrote:

martin wrote:

Pharzeone wrote:I'm more interested to hear what you guys think of forced retirement for what she said. I agree what she said was insane but I'm surprised that one is debating the force retirement issue. I remember the Imus incident where we debated the suspension. I agree that she should have been forced out but I remember many were against the Imus firing concerning free speech.

forced retirement or did she resign?

At first it was reported that she just resigned but now I see and hear on MSNBC, Fox and CNN that Helen Thomas was forced into retirement by Hearst. I guessing that she didn't want to go and told her colleagues as such.

i guess all that really matters is she is out, right?

free speech is nice and all but her job (and her age, position) is a little bit more different than most.

Saying Jews should go "home" to Germany is either ignorant or just plain nasty. Since this is a very well thought of person one would assume she is slipping a bit.

IN any event its time to resign, or if not get fired.

Free speech if fine but who and what you represent will be questioned. In this case: her objectivity! IF she wants to get in the editorial game and will have followers that creates readership then thats another story.

Imus can say what he wants but if his network gets called out for it then its his problem. He is on the air to generate listeners. Eventually hate does not sell very well. Not quite the association most companies want to be with.

I should say that in the same way as this woman obviously should have been forced out, Imus should have just as much. I remember he called the Rutgers team something aweful, but dont remember what happened to him thereafter.

Free speech is a personal thing, but a company and especially a world-wide news company should never allow an employee to espouse view that they are contrary to. If Hearst want to advocate those views that fine, but you cant condemn her and keep her at the same time. As Nalod said above, besides for the obvious prejudice Hearst would be accused of, its not very good business to go around spouting hateful views about anyone. 1+1=2. Goodbye Helen.

These were comments left on the youtube vid.

It isn't Arabs trying mightily to block release of the Mel Gibson movie, "The Passion" - it is Jews.
It isn't Arabs lying about and guilt tripping us with "the Holocaust" - it is Jews.
It isn't Arabs stealing American tax dollars to fund all their holocaust monuments throughout America - it is Jews.
It wasn't Arabs who forged the Anne Frank "diary" - it was Jews.
It wasn't Arabs who lied about gas chambers at Dachau and Auschwitz - it was Jews.

What really worries me about free speech is that this comment has 4 thumbs up. Thats four people who believe that the holocaust was a myth.... and if only it was just 4. And before you wonder, the poster is an American (I checked the profile). Im not advocating shutting people up, im just pointing out that in a world where anyone can post, blog, print anything that comes into their heads its tough to see where free speech stops and incitement to hatred starts.

1.
Nesenoff: Any comments on Israel? We're asking everybody today, any comments on Israel?
Thomas: Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine. (laughs)
Nesenoff: Oooh. Any better comments on Israel?
Thomas: (still laughing) Remember, these people are occupied and it's their land. It's not German, it's not Poland ...
Nesenoff: So where should they go, what should they do?
Thomas: They go home.
Nesenoff: Where's the home?
Thomas: Poland. Germany.
Nesenoff: So you're saying the Jews go back to Poland and Germany?
Thomas: And America and everywhere else. Why push people out of there who have lived there for centuries? See?

I do not agree with stifling non-violent opposing views of the Israeli state. However she did get it wrong in saying the Israelis should go back to Germany and Poland because in actuality many of the Jews who immigrated to Israeli did so to escape the anti-semitism in the Soviet Union and after the SV collapsed many more immigrated. Thought it was interesting that many of the news outlets choose to emphasize her mentioning Germany when she also mentioned America. I'm sorry but that Bush accomplice Ari Fleischer seems to have his slime all over this story. Thomas messed up in talking to this guy in the first place he was looking to create a story, most likely bring down Thomas and he got his wish.

2. Helen Thomas is forced to step for comments made in a conversation yet, Pat Buchanan gets paid millions of dollars to express his hate on network television?

Those of us in childhood during the war years were introduced to Hitler only as a caricature…Though Hitler was indeed racist and anti-Semitic to the core, a man who without compunction could commit murder and genocide, he was also an individual of great courage, a soldier’s soldier in the Great War, a leader steeped in the history of Europe, who possessed oratorical powers that could awe even those who despised him. But Hitler’s success was not based on his extraordinary gifts alone. His genius was an intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path.(Guardian, 1/14/92)

After Cardinal O'Connor criticized anti-Semitism during the controversy over construction of a convent near Auschwitz, Buchanan wrote: "If U.S. Jewry takes the clucking appeasement of the Catholic cardinalate as indicative of our submission, it is mistaken. When Cardinal O'Connor of New York seeks to soothe the always irate Elie Wiesel by reassuring him 'there are many Catholics who are anti-Semitic'...he speaks for himself. Be not afraid, Your Eminence; just step aside, there are bishops and priests ready to assume the role of defender of the faith." (New Republic, 10/22/90)

“

If you want to know ethnicity and power in the United States Senate, 13 members of the Senate are Jewish folks who are from 2 percent of the population. That is where real power is at….”

-- On The McLaughlin Group, February 2, 2007

3. Would there be an outrage had Thomas expressed an opposing view? What if she had said that the Palestinians should go back to Jordan where they were slaughtered in the Black September Days during 70-71, or to Egypt who has been an active participant in the horrendous Gaza blockade which has put many Palestinians on a starvation diet and lacking other basic necessities, is Thomas comments really worse than those who openly demand that the Palestinians surrender their national aspirations?

This all is not to say I agree with Thomas because I don't, I support a two-state solution with the borders from 1967. Allow the Palestinians to elect who they choose and allow Israel to live within it's borders without infringement from foreign powers.

Nalod wrote:Helen is of lebonese decent which gives reason to her comment. Her mind left her and now she has followed Elvis and left the building.g

I don't know what your insinuating are here but Thomas' descent is Lebanese Christian who were some of the staunchest allies of the Israeli state.

Bitty, I have a problem with the fact that Buchanan is still allowed to spout his rhetoric as well. I don't know when it became tolerable to allow him to run his mouth without someone seriously challenging him. I know the late Tim Russert did so in 92 and 96 during his presidential campaigns but since then nada really. In fact he made comments similar to Thomas but took it a step further questioning the Holocaust numbers. This is the same guy that thought it would be ok to prevent any immigration to this country.

bitty41 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Helen is of lebonese decent which gives reason to her comment. Her mind left her and now she has followed Elvis and left the building.g

I don't know what your insinuating are here but Thomas' descent is Lebanese Christian who were some of the staunchest allies of the Israeli state.

Wonder if she happy with the Hezbollah doing such wonderful things in her country.
r

bitty41 wrote:1.
Nesenoff: Any comments on Israel? We're asking everybody today, any comments on Israel?
Thomas: Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine. (laughs)
Nesenoff: Oooh. Any better comments on Israel?
Thomas: (still laughing) Remember, these people are occupied and it's their land. It's not German, it's not Poland ...
Nesenoff: So where should they go, what should they do?
Thomas: They go home.
Nesenoff: Where's the home?
Thomas: Poland. Germany.
Nesenoff: So you're saying the Jews go back to Poland and Germany?
Thomas: And America and everywhere else. Why push people out of there who have lived there for centuries? See?

I do not agree with stifling non-violent opposing views of the Israeli state. However she did get it wrong in saying the Israelis should go back to Germany and Poland because in actuality many of the Jews who immigrated to Israeli did so to escape the anti-semitism in the Soviet Union and after the SV collapsed many more immigrated. Thought it was interesting that many of the news outlets choose to emphasize her mentioning Germany when she also mentioned America. I'm sorry but that Bush accomplice Ari Fleischer seems to have his slime all over this story. Thomas messed up in talking to this guy in the first place he was looking to create a story, most likely bring down Thomas and he got his wish.

2. Helen Thomas is forced to step for comments made in a conversation yet, Pat Buchanan gets paid millions of dollars to express his hate on network television?

Those of us in childhood during the war years were introduced to Hitler only as a caricature…Though Hitler was indeed racist and anti-Semitic to the core, a man who without compunction could commit murder and genocide, he was also an individual of great courage, a soldier’s soldier in the Great War, a leader steeped in the history of Europe, who possessed oratorical powers that could awe even those who despised him. But Hitler’s success was not based on his extraordinary gifts alone. His genius was an intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path.(Guardian, 1/14/92)

After Cardinal O'Connor criticized anti-Semitism during the controversy over construction of a convent near Auschwitz, Buchanan wrote: "If U.S. Jewry takes the clucking appeasement of the Catholic cardinalate as indicative of our submission, it is mistaken. When Cardinal O'Connor of New York seeks to soothe the always irate Elie Wiesel by reassuring him 'there are many Catholics who are anti-Semitic'...he speaks for himself. Be not afraid, Your Eminence; just step aside, there are bishops and priests ready to assume the role of defender of the faith." (New Republic, 10/22/90)

“

If you want to know ethnicity and power in the United States Senate, 13 members of the Senate are Jewish folks who are from 2 percent of the population. That is where real power is at….”

-- On The McLaughlin Group, February 2, 2007

3. Would there be an outrage had Thomas expressed an opposing view? What if she had said that the Palestinians should go back to Jordan where they were slaughtered in the Black September Days during 70-71, or to Egypt who has been an active participant in the horrendous Gaza blockade which has put many Palestinians on a starvation diet and lacking other basic necessities, is Thomas comments really worse than those who openly demand that the Palestinians surrender their national aspirations?

This all is not to say I agree with Thomas because I don't, I support a two-state solution with the borders from 1967. Allow the Palestinians to elect who they choose and allow Israel to live within it's borders without infringement from foreign powers.

That map, that depicts British occupied palistine or some fictional sovereign pretend nation?

Nalod, I think what Thomas said was insane about jews going back to Poland but it is little dispute that in 1967 that six day war and followed UN involvement altered Palestine.

Re: The expanding boundaries of Israel
Of course the 3 major wars, plus the war to open the Suez canal nationalized by Egypt and did not allow Israeli ships thru being the 4th war; and dozens of major "conflicts" and small wars with the PLO, Hezbollah, and Hamas, all on the major terrorist organization list, did affect the shape of Israel.

Bitty, your ideas are rational and humane, but only in an environment of peace. Hamas and Hezbollah have as their main doctrine, the "eradication of Israel and all of the Jews in Palestine". Until that changes, Israel will do whatever it takes to defend itself against them. The people who are getting screwed by the terrorist regimes are the everyday citizens.

Israel was virtually indefensible in its original shape. Another time, if you really want to get into military strategy, we can. They have expanded the boundaries because
1. they are more defensible and
2. The Arab countries for the first 25 years, and more recently, the terrorist organizations keep attacking Israel, trying to wipe them out.

Israel gave back the Gaza which they had captured. Peace lasted only a little - until the PLO were overthrown by Hamas who now use the Gaza as a launching pad for more terrorist attacks against Israel.

Bitty, I can't believe you don't get this. Israel attacked Gaza after years of rockets were launched from there. Same with the Golan Heights in the north (against Hezbollah). If they wouldn't launch terrorist attacks against Israel, Israel wouldn't attack them; Israel and Egypt wouldn't have had a blockade against Gaza; there could be peace and all of these innocent people (Gaza) wouldn't be in such poor conditions.