Off Topic · Steve Jobs Is Watching You: Apple Seeking to Patent Spyware (page 1)

Big Brother Steve Jobs...

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/08/steve-jobs-watching-you-apple-seeking-patent-0

Deeplink by Julie Samuels

"It looks like Apple, Inc., is exploring a new business opportunity: spyware and what we're calling "traitorware." While users were celebrating the new jailbreaking and unlocking exemptions, Apple was quietly preparing to apply for a patent on technology that, among other things, would allow Apple to identify and punish users who take advantage of those exemptions or otherwise tinker with their devices. This patent application does nothing short of providing a roadmap for how Apple can — and presumably will — spy on its customers and control the way its customers use Apple products. As Sony-BMG learned, spying on your customers is bad for business. And the kind of spying enabled here is especially creepy — it's not just spyware, it's "traitorware," since it is designed to allow Apple to retaliate against you if you do something Apple doesn't like.

Essentially, Apple's patent provides for a device to investigate a user's identity, ostensibly to determine if and when that user is "unauthorized," or, in other words, stolen. More specifically, the technology would allow Apple to record the voice of the device's user, take a photo of the device's user's current location or even detect and record the heartbeat of the device's user. Once an unauthorized user is identified, Apple could wipe the device and remotely store the user's "sensitive data." Apple's patent application suggests it may use the technology not just to limit "unauthorized" uses of its phones but also shut down the phone if and when it has been stolen.

However, Apple's new technology would do much more. This patented device enables Apple to secretly collect, store and potentially use sensitive biometric information about you. This is dangerous in two ways: First, it is far more than what is needed just to protect you against a lost or stolen phone. It's extremely privacy-invasive and it puts you at great risk if Apple's data on you are compromised. But it's not only the biometric data that are a concern. Second, Apple's technology includes various types of usage monitoring — also very privacy-invasive. This patented process could be used to retaliate against you if you jailbreak or tinker with your device in ways that Apple views as "unauthorized" even if it is perfectly legal under copyright law.

Here's a sample of the kinds of information Apple plans to collect:

* The system can take a picture of the user's face, "without a flash, any noise, or any indication that a picture is being taken to prevent the current user from knowing he is being photographed";
* The system can record the user's voice, whether or not a phone call is even being made;
* The system can determine the user's unique individual heartbeat "signature";
* To determine if the device has been hacked, the device can watch for "a sudden increase in memory usage of the electronic device";
* The user's "Internet activity can be monitored or any communication packets that are served to the electronic device can be recorded"; and
* The device can take a photograph of the surrounding location to determine where it is being used.

In other words, Apple will know who you are, where you are, and what you are doing and saying and even how fast your heart is beating. In some embodiments of Apple's "invention," this information "can be gathered every time the electronic device is turned on, unlocked, or used." When an "unauthorized use" is detected, Apple can contact a "responsible party." A "responsible party" may be the device's owner, it may also be "proper authorities or the police."

Apple does not explain what it will do with all of this collected information on its users, how long it will maintain this information, how it will use this information, or if it will share this information with other third parties. We know based on long experience that if Apple collects this information, law enforcement will come for it, and may even order Apple to turn it on for reasons other than simply returning a lost phone to its owner.

This patent is downright creepy and invasive — certainly far more than would be needed to respond to the possible loss of a phone. Spyware, and its new cousin traitorware, will hurt customers and companies alike — Apple should shelve this idea before it backfires on both it and its customers."

If my phone gets stolen it can find it? Cool.

If I modify agaisnt the warranty it will know and I can't have a claim? Ok, thats not problem.

It will take a picture of the person who stole my phone? Ok. Thats cool.

With Apps that can pay for things I can see a day when it photo stamps the transaction for fraud prevention.

In most cases this stuff protects the owner.

Don't like it, don't buy Apple products. But don't be suprised if others have it in time.

I love privacy doomsday articles. Fear monger crap.

If I am stealing, dealing drugs or in the terror business then im just up i arms.

where is playa when you need him!

jimimou wrote:where is playa when you need him!

"they" took care of him!

Nalod wrote:
If my phone gets stolen it can find it? Cool.

If I modify agaisnt the warranty it will know and I can't have a claim? Ok, thats not problem.

It will take a picture of the person who stole my phone? Ok. Thats cool.

With Apps that can pay for things I can see a day when it photo stamps the transaction for fraud prevention.

In most cases this stuff protects the owner.

Don't like it, don't buy Apple products. But don't be suprised if others have it in time.

I love privacy doomsday articles. Fear monger crap.

If I am stealing, dealing drugs or in the terror business then im just up i arms.

Its ok because you have nothing to hide? Really? Apple having the means to take your picture, record your voice, monitor what you are doing without your permission or knowledge because you dl'ed some program on your iphone, you don't find that alarming? I don't believe that anyone (govt or private entity) should have the power to do that without my permission. But that's just me.

My country ti's of thee sweet land of liberty of thee I sing.

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:
If my phone gets stolen it can find it? Cool.

If I modify agaisnt the warranty it will know and I can't have a claim? Ok, thats not problem.

It will take a picture of the person who stole my phone? Ok. Thats cool.

With Apps that can pay for things I can see a day when it photo stamps the transaction for fraud prevention.

In most cases this stuff protects the owner.

Don't like it, don't buy Apple products. But don't be suprised if others have it in time.

I love privacy doomsday articles. Fear monger crap.

If I am stealing, dealing drugs or in the terror business then im just up i arms.

Its ok because you have nothing to hide? Really? Apple having the means to take your picture, record your voice, monitor what you are doing without your permission or knowledge because you dl'ed some program on your iphone, you don't find that alarming? I don't believe that anyone (govt or private entity) should have the power to do that without my permission. But that's just me.

My country ti's of thee sweet land of liberty of thee I sing.

Your country is not Apple Corp.!!!!!!!

Before we get all out there,,,,,,,The article states Apple is looking at it.

Being secrative as Apple is this article could be total bogus as Apple does not discuss its self.

Ok, so we don't even know the accuracy.

Most important is Apple is not alone in wanting to protect its intellectual property and protect the license holder which is the phone owner.

I understood if the phones are messed with it will go into this data collection mode.

I got lots of things to worry about, and Apple is not one of them.

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:
If my phone gets stolen it can find it? Cool.

If I modify agaisnt the warranty it will know and I can't have a claim? Ok, thats not problem.

It will take a picture of the person who stole my phone? Ok. Thats cool.

With Apps that can pay for things I can see a day when it photo stamps the transaction for fraud prevention.

In most cases this stuff protects the owner.

Don't like it, don't buy Apple products. But don't be suprised if others have it in time.

I love privacy doomsday articles. Fear monger crap.

If I am stealing, dealing drugs or in the terror business then im just up i arms.

Its ok because you have nothing to hide? Really? Apple having the means to take your picture, record your voice, monitor what you are doing without your permission or knowledge because you dl'ed some program on your iphone, you don't find that alarming? I don't believe that anyone (govt or private entity) should have the power to do that without my permission. But that's just me.

My country ti's of thee sweet land of liberty of thee I sing.

Your country is not Apple Corp.!!!!!!!

Before we get all out there,,,,,,,The article states Apple is looking at it.

Being secrative as Apple is this article could be total bogus as Apple does not discuss its self.

Ok, so we don't even know the accuracy.

Most important is Apple is not alone in wanting to protect its intellectual property and protect the license holder which is the phone owner.

I understood if the phones are messed with it will go into this data collection mode.

I got lots of things to worry about, and Apple is not one of them.

Apple is in my country and the rules should apply to them as well. If a consumer signs off on this when they buy it is one thing but that isn't always the case, look at google's wi-fi collection fiasco. The fact that they even are considering something like this
is disturbing. Protecting intellectual property is one thing but to allegedly want to take pictures and record a consumer's voice because he or she d'led some program that lets them play flash movies on their apple? That's a bridge too far for me.

Its better to have this info out now so Apple has to respond and give consumers an opportunity to decide for themselves. Besides, you don't want Apple to show that picture of you in a nets shirt?

Nalod wrote:
If my phone gets stolen it can find it? Cool.

If I modify agaisnt the warranty it will know and I can't have a claim? Ok, thats not problem.

It will take a picture of the person who stole my phone? Ok. Thats cool.

With Apps that can pay for things I can see a day when it photo stamps the transaction for fraud prevention.

In most cases this stuff protects the owner.

Don't like it, don't buy Apple products. But don't be suprised if others have it in time.

I love privacy doomsday articles. Fear monger crap.

If I am stealing, dealing drugs or in the terror business then im just up i arms.

Not really. The "slow" deterioration of privacy leads to problems. Just because you dont do anything now that is deemed unlawful doesnt mean that will remain the case.

I'm responding as we speak on the potty on my iPad.

If true this is gonna mess me up good!

Nalod wrote:Before we get all out there,,,,,,,The article states Apple is looking at it.

You are being a bit lax Nalod. This is coming from the electronic frontier foundation not some conspiracy theorist website. This is not bs. Sure, right now only Apple has patented it but if all goes well, every single device manufacture can consider this.

I mean, have you read what the traitor ware can do? Picture, sound, location, internet traffic and they assign everything to your unique signature! So basically, they can have a file on you that will hold all your info. That does not bother you? And its not just about whether you trust APPLE or not. Imagine if they get hacked and all those identities get stolen. It will be a National Security disaster! You will have spies running around that can impersonate you to the T. Lets say we let apple do this, it will set a dangerous precedent. We will have everything piece of technology using some form of traitorware spying on its users.

I'm with GustavBahler on this one. I am glad there are people like him and others at the EFF that keep and eye on this stuff.

Silverfuel wrote:Imagine if they get hacked and all those identities get stolen. It will be a National Security disaster!

What kind of information are they getting where your identity would be stolen? A picture of your face?

Nalod wrote:If my phone gets stolen it can find it? Cool.

Cell phone tower triangulation can do this already! If your phone gets stolen, ask the police to get your cell carrier to locate it. You don't need apples privacy invader for this.

If I modify agaisnt the warranty it will know and I can't have a claim? Ok, thats not problem.

It wont just void your warranty. They will brick the phone with this app.

It will take a picture of the person who stole my phone? Ok. Thats cool.

The scary part is it can take a picture of anyone when suspicious thresholds are crossed. So it could take pictures of you if for whatever reason you travel out of your usual area. It will then store those pictures somewhere. Imagine if your wife or daughters pictures were being taken and stored at different times of the day because the spyware module malfunctioned. Will you be ok with that?

In most cases this stuff protects the owner.

There are many different ways to protect the owner. quote: "As the EFF says, "it's not just spyware, it's 'traitorware,' since it is designed to allow Apple to retaliate against you if you do something Apple doesn't like."

Don't like it, don't buy Apple products. But don't be suprised if others have it in time.

The problem is this might set a precedent. Like ISPs with net neutrality only caring about sucking you dry of more money, device manufacturers will do what is good for them even if it grossly invades on their customers privacy.

I love privacy doomsday articles. Fear monger crap.

Thats insulting.

If I am stealing, dealing drugs or in the terror business then im just up i arms.

This is fear mongering Nalod. Drug dealers and terrorists use prepaid phones not iphones with ATT service that requires a verified billing addresses.

Andrew wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Imagine if they get hacked and all those identities get stolen. It will be a National Security disaster!

What kind of information are they getting where your identity would be stolen? A picture of your face?

Your phone is connected to your iTunes account, which connects to your billing information. Add a picture to that and you have a passport. Add sound to that and you have voice recognition. Add internet browsing history to that and you have a portfolio.

Silverfuel wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Imagine if they get hacked and all those identities get stolen. It will be a National Security disaster!

What kind of information are they getting where your identity would be stolen? A picture of your face?

Your phone is connected to your iTunes account, which connects to your billing information. Add a picture to that and you have a passport. Add sound to that and you have voice recognition. Add internet browsing history to that and you have a portfolio.

You basically just listed a bunch of information that is available in the case that any company you deal with got hacked. Your face, voice are unrelated to identity theft, and unless you are walking around not talking and wearing a mask you are putting that out there as well. Billing information is pretty unrealated to id theft as well. Now if apple wants your ss#...then I'd be a bit concerned, but again, thats a risk you take with credit card and other companies today.

Andrew wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Imagine if they get hacked and all those identities get stolen. It will be a National Security disaster!

What kind of information are they getting where your identity would be stolen? A picture of your face?

Your phone is connected to your iTunes account, which connects to your billing information. Add a picture to that and you have a passport. Add sound to that and you have voice recognition. Add internet browsing history to that and you have a portfolio.

You basically just listed a bunch of information that is available in the case that any company you deal with got hacked. Your face, voice are unrelated to identity theft, and unless you are walking around not talking and wearing a mask you are putting that out there as well. Billing information is pretty unrealated to id theft as well. Now if apple wants your ss#...then I'd be a bit concerned, but again, thats a risk you take with credit card and other companies today.

I think I am misunderstanding you. Are you saying storing your internet browsing history, location history, your picture, picture of your surroundings and voice along with your billing information will not permit identity theft? Or are you saying you need much less for identity theft?

That Shit don't bother me. Seriously. I got my thing to do and others will advocate for rights of users and I'll weigh it all out.

Gonna buy a new Powerbook next week!

Silverfuel wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Imagine if they get hacked and all those identities get stolen. It will be a National Security disaster!

What kind of information are they getting where your identity would be stolen? A picture of your face?

Your phone is connected to your iTunes account, which connects to your billing information. Add a picture to that and you have a passport. Add sound to that and you have voice recognition. Add internet browsing history to that and you have a portfolio.

You basically just listed a bunch of information that is available in the case that any company you deal with got hacked. Your face, voice are unrelated to identity theft, and unless you are walking around not talking and wearing a mask you are putting that out there as well. Billing information is pretty unrealated to id theft as well. Now if apple wants your ss#...then I'd be a bit concerned, but again, thats a risk you take with credit card and other companies today.

I think I am misunderstanding you. Are you saying storing your internet browsing history, location history, your picture, picture of your surroundings and voice along with your billing information will not permit identity theft? Or are you saying you need much less for identity theft?

Yes...thats what I'm saying. What do you mean by stealing my identity? I took it as open a credit card, take a loan out. You can't do that with a picture of me.

Nalod wrote:
That Shit don't bother me. Seriously. I got my thing to do and others will advocate for rights of users and I'll weigh it all out.

Gonna buy a new Powerbook next week!

Thats absolutely fine with me but it still does not make it OK for companies to do that.

On a side not I don't know how apple is as successful as they are. Working with some people there recently and they are absolutely the most disorganized company we've dealt with.

Andrew wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:I think I am misunderstanding you. Are you saying storing your internet browsing history, location history, your picture, picture of your surroundings and voice along with your billing information will not permit identity theft? Or are you saying you need much less for identity theft?

Yes...thats what I'm saying. What do you mean by stealing my identity? I took it as open a credit card, take a loan out. You can't do that with a picture of me.

I meant something worse than a credit card. There was a Chinese spy that was caught stealing military secrets in mid 2000's who had worked for an army research wing for 15 years. The way he got the job was by impersonating (type of an identity theft) an American of Chinese descent. You have all that info that apples newest module collects, you can impersonate someone. Many government agencies guard from theft by using voice recognition and have samples of someones voice can help with bypassing that too! It is unlikely but it is not impossible.

Overall, do you think it is OK for APPLE to collect and store this info? Don't you think it can be abused?

from the article:

Apple will know who you are, where you are, and what you are doing and saying and even how fast your heart is beating.

Apple does not explain what it will do with all of this collected information on its users, how long it will maintain this information, how it will use this information, or if it will share this information with other third parties. We know based on long experience that if Apple collects this information, law enforcement will come for it, and may even order Apple to turn it on for reasons other than simply returning a lost phone to its owner.

Andrew wrote:On a side not I don't know how apple is as successful as they are. Working with some people there recently and they are absolutely the most disorganized company we've dealt with.

IMO, very rabid and loyal user base. Which is what makes this worse. Apple fans will buy anything because they believe in Apple so the whole privacy thing will become a non-issue. But if RIM put this in Blackberry devices, it would be in trouble.