Off Topic · What's a derivative? (page 1)

Or how your state's pension fund (and state workers everywhere) became target's for the Tea Party

Explanation of Derivative Markets
Heidi is the proprietor of a bar in Detroit. She realizes that virtually all of her customers are unemployed alcoholics and, as such, can no longer afford to patronize her bar. To solve this problem, she comes up with a new marketing plan that allows her customers to drink now, but pay later.

Heidi keeps track of the drinks consumed on a ledger (thereby granting the customers loans). Word gets around about Heidi's "drink now, pay later" marketing strategy and, as a result, increasing numbers of customers flood into Heidi's bar. Soon she has the largest sales volume for any bar in Detroit .

By providing her customers freedom from immediate payment demands, Heidi gets no resistance when, at regular intervals, she substantially increases her prices for wine and beer, the most consumed beverages. Consequently, Heidi's gross sales volume increases massively.

A young and dynamic vice-president at the local bank recognizes that these customer debts constitute valuable future assets and increases Heidi's borrowing limit. He sees no reason for any undue concern, since he has the debts of the unemployed alcoholics as collateral.

At the bank's corporate headquarters, expert traders figure a way to make huge commissions, and transform these customer loans into DRINKBONDS, ALKIBONDS and PUKEBONDS. These securities are then bundled and traded on international security markets.

Naive investors don't really understand that the securities being sold to them as AAA secured bonds are really the debts of unemployed alcoholics. Nevertheless, the bond prices continuously climb, and the securities soon become the hottest-selling items for some of the nation's leading brokerage houses.

One day, even though the bond prices are still climbing, a risk manager at the original local bank decides that the time has come to demand payment on the debts incurred by the drinkers at Heidi's bar. He so informs Heidi.

Heidi then demands payment from her alcoholic patrons, but being unemployed alcoholics they cannot pay back their drinking debts. Since Heidi cannot fulfill her loan obligations she is forced into bankruptcy. The bar closes and the eleven employees lose their jobs.

Overnight, DRINKBONDS, ALKIBONDS and PUKEBONDS drop in price by 90%. The collapsed bond asset value destroys the bank?s liquidity and prevents it from issuing new loans, thus freezing credit and economic activity in the community. The suppliers of Heidi's bar had granted her generous payment extensions and had invested their firms' pension funds in the various BOND securities. They find they are now faced with having to write off her bad debt and with losing over 90% of the presumed value of the bonds. Her wine supplier also claims bankruptcy, closing the doors on a family business that had endured for three generations, her beer supplier is taken over by a competitor, who immediately closes the local plant and lays off 150 workers.

Fortunately though, the bank, the brokerage houses and their respective executives are saved and bailed out by a multi-billion dollar no-strings attached cash infusion from their cronies in Government. The funds required for this bailout are obtained by new taxes levied on employed, middle-class, non-drinkers who have never been in Heidi's bar.

Now do you understand?

Attributed to the following:

By Rick Kriscka

We could add that the states with distressed pension funds and shrinking revenues due to ecomomic damage from the fallout are now targetting cutting those benefits to make those pension funds viable again. While the bank officers involved eat a bit less sushi and Gulf Shrimp these days and drive to Senate hearings I somehow doubt they feel the pinch like all those unemployed as a consequence of the banking/real estate shenanigans that caused economic downturn in the first place. Though I suspect the realtors do.

Meanwhile they attack the EPA claiming a need for less regulation even in the aftermath of the blowout in the Gulf. As the US fights a war (military action) half way around the world in a country so full of corruption we cannot say with certaainty we are not aiding and abetting the terrorists we are targetting in that same country at a cost of billions and lots more in human life.

</soapbox>

GustavBahler wrote:Mike Taibbi of Rolling Stone has written some great pieces on derivatives. I remember back in 93' I was playing bball on the upper west side, waiting for the next game, and this guy in his early 20s was going on and on about how derivatives were going to be a game changer for Wall Street. Boy was he right.

Oh man, did he ever. Some of the best rolling stone articles come from him. Its an incredibly informative read every time. Makes me think of what could be done about it and i just want to distance myself from the whole thing every time. Whether its the wars we fight, or the people that lose their jobs and houses because the wall street cats like to make money off of it or because noone goes to jail for it other than Bernie Madoff or whatever his name is and the only reason he had to do time was because he stole from the rich and the famous. Really, put one of those executives into the "get slammed in the butt" jail instead of giving them a bonus and the whole thing straightens out itself, economy included.

DRINKBONDS-A, DRINKBONDS-B, DRINKBONDS-C
ALKIBONDS-A, ALKIBONDS-B, ALKIBONDS-C
PUKEBONDS-A, PUKEBONDS-B, PUKEBONDS-C

With A being the most desireable class, then B, then C. So all the A's got grouped together, and then the B's and were sold as FRATPARTY and KEGSTAND. But no one really wanted to buy the C's. So then the DRINKBONDS-C, ALKIBONDS-C, and PUKEBONDS-C bonds got cut up into:

DRINKBONDS-X, DRINKBONDS-Y, DRINKBONDS-Z
ALKIBONDS-X, ALKIBONDS-Y, ALKIBONDS-Z
PUKEBONDS-X, PUKEBONDS-Y, PUKEBONDS-Z

And all the Xs were bundled and sold as MARDIGRAS, and Y as VIPROOM. FRATPARTY, KEGSTAND, MARDIGRAS, and VIPROOOM were all AAA rated--DIVERSIFICATION! The banks has the Z class lefotver, so the investment banks went to insurance companies and said, "We have a great deal for you. We're selling these AAA rated bonds. We have some leftover pieces--we won't bore you with the details--but we're selling this new awesome product. Basically, you collect premiums, and the other side gets paid if these things go bust! We'll collect a modest sales commission and you'll just keep making money!!! We call this new product THREESOME."

If you're keeping score:
betting that[DRINKBONDS-Z + ALKIBONDS-Z + PUKEBONDS-Z] make payments = THREESOME

Well, THREESOME was a huge success story, everybody had to buy it. So, they went back to the bar and said, "get us more drunks so we can sell us more DRINKBONDS, ALKIBONDS and PUKEBONDS. I don't care how you get these, I don't care if they're on meth too, but SELL US MORE!!!" And the banks figured out they could create even more product to sell, if they cut THREESOME up and package that as UKDOTCOM and ALBATHREAD.

ramtour420 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Mike Taibbi of Rolling Stone has written some great pieces on derivatives. I remember back in 93' I was playing bball on the upper west side, waiting for the next game, and this guy in his early 20s was going on and on about how derivatives were going to be a game changer for Wall Street. Boy was he right.

Oh man, did he ever. Some of the best rolling stone articles come from him. Its an incredibly informative read every time. Makes me think of what could be done about it and i just want to distance myself from the whole thing every time. Whether its the wars we fight, or the people that lose their jobs and houses because the wall street cats like to make money off of it or because noone goes to jail for it other than Bernie Madoff or whatever his name is and the only reason he had to do time was because he stole from the rich and the famous. Really, put one of those executives into the "get slammed in the butt" jail instead of giving them a bonus and the whole thing straightens out itself, economy included.

Great points Ramtour, it just keeps getting worse. I meant to say Matt Taibbi, not Mike, his Dad. The sad thing is that anything that doesn't tilt overwhelmingly for the rich these days is called "socialism" by some, never mind that the government socialized Wall Street's losses with those bailouts. Many of the same people on capitol hill who back these policies don't believe in Darwin and evolution but have no trouble promoting social darwinism.

Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail?

Financial crooks brought down the world's economy — but the feds are doing more to protect them than to prosecute them

By MATT TAIBBI
FEBRUARY 16, 2011 9:00 AM ET

Over drinks at a bar on a dreary, snowy night in Washington this past month, a former Senate investigator laughed as he polished off his beer.

"Everything's fucked up, and nobody goes to jail," he said. "That's your whole story right there. Hell, you don't even have to write the rest of it. Just write that."

I put down my notebook. "Just that?"

"That's right," he said, signaling to the waitress for the check. "Everything's fucked up, and nobody goes to jail. You can end the piece right there."

Nobody goes to jail. This is the mantra of the financial-crisis era, one that saw virtually every major bank and financial company on Wall Street embroiled in obscene criminal scandals that impoverished millions and collectively destroyed hundreds of billions, in fact, trillions of dollars of the world's wealth — and nobody went to jail. Nobody, that is, except Bernie Madoff, a flamboyant and pathological celebrity con artist, whose victims happened to be other rich and famous people.

The rest of them, all of them, got off. Not a single executive who ran the companies that cooked up and cashed in on the phony financial boom — an industrywide scam that involved the mass sale of mismarked, fraudulent mortgage-backed securities — has ever been convicted. Their names by now are familiar to even the most casual Middle American news consumer: companies like AIG, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America and Morgan Stanley. Most of these firms were directly involved in elaborate fraud and theft. Lehman Brothers hid billions in loans from its investors. Bank of America lied about billions in bonuses. Goldman Sachs failed to tell clients how it put together the born-to-lose toxic mortgage deals it was selling. What's more, many of these companies had corporate chieftains whose actions cost investors billions — from AIG derivatives chief Joe Cassano, who assured investors they would not lose even "one dollar" just months before his unit imploded, to the $263 million in compensation that former Lehman chief Dick "The Gorilla" Fuld conveniently failed to disclose. Yet not one of them has faced time behind bars.

Invasion of the Home Snatchers

Instead, federal regulators and prosecutors have let the banks and finance companies that tried to burn the world economy to the ground get off with carefully orchestrated settlements — whitewash jobs that involve the firms paying pathetically small fines without even being required to admit wrongdoing. To add insult to injury, the people who actually committed the crimes almost never pay the fines themselves; banks caught defrauding their shareholders often use shareholder money to foot the tab of justice. "If the allegations in these settlements are true," says Jed Rakoff, a federal judge in the Southern District of New York, "it's management buying its way off cheap, from the pockets of their victims."

To understand the significance of this, one has to think carefully about the efficacy of fines as a punishment for a defendant pool that includes the richest people on earth — people who simply get their companies to pay their fines for them. Conversely, one has to consider the powerful deterrent to further wrongdoing that the state is missing by not introducing this particular class of people to the experience of incarceration. "You put Lloyd Blankfein in pound-me-in-the-ass prison for one six-month term, and all this bullshit would stop, all over Wall Street," says a former congressional aide. "That's all it would take. Just once."

But that hasn't happened. Because the entire system set up to monitor and regulate Wall Street is fucked up.

Just ask the people who tried to do the right thing.

Here's how regulation of Wall Street is supposed to work......

Olbrannon wrote:Fortunately though, the bank, the brokerage houses and their respective executives are saved and bailed out by a multi-billion dollar no-strings attached cash infusion from their cronies in Government. The funds required for this bailout are obtained by new taxes levied on employed, middle-class, non-drinkers who have never been in Heidi's bar.

Now do you understand?

Attributed to the following:

By Rick Kriscka

We could add that the states with distressed pension funds and shrinking revenues due to ecomomic damage from the fallout are now targetting cutting those benefits to make those pension funds viable again. While the bank officers involved eat a bit less sushi and Gulf Shrimp these days and drive to Senate hearings I somehow doubt they feel the pinch like all those unemployed as a consequence of the banking/real estate shenanigans that caused economic downturn in the first place. Though I suspect the realtors do.

Meanwhile they attack the EPA claiming a need for less regulation even in the aftermath of the blowout in the Gulf. As the US fights a war (military action) half way around the world in a country so full of corruption we cannot say with certaainty we are not aiding and abetting the terrorists we are targetting in that same country at a cost of billions and lots more in human life.

If you really want to be upset, watch for the next Matt Taibbi article on who the Fed lent money to, i.e., bailed out. Here's an excerpt from th Taibblog:

POSTED: APRIL 1, 12:23 PM ET | By MATT TAIBBI

Why is the Fed Bailing Out Qaddafi?

Barack Obama recently issued an executive order imposing a wave of sanctions against Libya, not only freezing Libyan assets, but barring Americans from having business dealings with Libyan banks.

So raise your hand if you knew that the United States has been extending billions of dollars in aid to Qaddafi and to the Central Bank of Libya, through a Libyan-owned subsidiary bank operating out of Bahrain. And raise your hand if you knew that, just a week or so after Obama’s executive order, the U.S. Treasury Department quietly issued an order exempting this and other Libyan-owned banks to continue operating without sanction.

I came across the curious case of the Arab Banking Corporation, better known as ABC, while researching a story about the results of the audit of the Federal Reserve. That story, which will be coming out in Rolling Stone in two weeks, will examine in detail some of the many lunacies uncovered by Senate investigators amid the recently-released list of bailout and emergency aid recipients – a list that includes many extremely shocking names, from foreign industrial competitors to hedge funds in tax-haven nations to various Wall Street figures of note (and some of their relatives). You will want to see this amazing list when it comes out, so please make sure to check the newsstands in two weeks’ time.

This list became public as a result of an amendment added to the Dodd-Frank financial reform bill that was sponsored by Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. The amendment forced the Federal Reserve to open its books for the first time and make public the names of those individuals and corporations who received emergency loans and bailout monies during the roughly two year period between the crash of 2008 and the passage of the Dodd-Frank bill.

As Bernie’s staff was going through this list, it found, among other things, some $26 billion in extremely cheap loans (as low as one quarter of one percent!) extended to this ABC bank over a period of years, beginning in December of 2007 and continuing through as recently as February of 2010. The senator sent a letter to Ben Bernanke over the winter demanding more information about this loan (among others) but the response he got was completely unhelpful.

When I first started working on this story, one of Sanders’s aides was careful to point out the ABC loans. Later, I took a closer look at the company and found that it was 59% owned by the Central Bank of Libya, which I found very odd, even by the generally insane standards of the bailout era. Why, I wondered, would the Federal Reserve be giving Muammar Qaddafi $26 billion in near-zero interest loans? Exactly how does that address America’s financial problems? What bailout plan could that possibly be part of?

It gets weirder from there. Sanders’s office subsequently found out that ABC is not only exempt from Obama’s sanctions, it has two functioning branches here in New York City. In a letter he sent yesterday evening to Ben Bernanke, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, and Office of the Comptroller of the Currency chief John Walsh (the banking regulator with purview over the New York branches), Sanders put it this way:

Why would the U.S. government allow a bank that is predominantly owned by the Central Bank of Libya – an institution on which the U.S. has imposed strict economic sanctions – to operate two banking branches within our own borders?

Neither the Fed nor Treasury so far has offered explanations for these loans; the Treasury has so far only explained why ABC was not subject to sanctions and pointed to the March 4th order when I contacted them.

The ABC loans are just one example of the Fed’s bailout madness. Again, there are 21,000 transactions on the Fed’s list of released names, and “every one of these... is outrageous,” as one Sanders aide put it. You will be shocked, for sure, to find out who else is on that list. We’ll have a lot more on those other loans in the next issue of Rolling Stone.

"[url="http://www.newsweek.com/2011/04/10/war-on-the-weak.html"]War on the Weak[/url]"

Last week the Republican Party sounded two distinct voices. First we heard the angry demands of the Tea Party, speaking through its hardline conservative allies in the House, pushing the government to the brink of a shutdown. But then emerged the soothing tones of Paul Ryan, the House Budget Committee chairman, who fashions himself the intellectual leader of the party, unveiling a budget manifesto he calls the “Path to Prosperity.”

Ryan portrays his goals in reassuringly pecuniary terms—he’s just the friendly neighborhood accountant here to help balance your checkbook. “I have a knack for numbers,” he chirps. ABC News compared him to a character in Dave, the corny 1993 movie about an average Joe who mistakenly assumes the presidency and calls in his CPA buddy—that would be Ryan—to scour the federal budget and bring it into balance. If he has any flaw, he just cares too much about rescuing the country from debt, gosh darn it!

In fact, the two streams—the furious Tea Party rebels and Ryan the earnest budget geek—both spring from the same source. And it is to that source that you must look if you want to understand what Ryan is really after, and what makes these activists so angry.

The Tea Party began early in 2009 after an improvised rant by Rick Santelli, a CNBC commentator who called for an uprising to protest the Obama administration’s subsidizing the “losers’ mortgages.” Video of his diatribe rocketed around the country, and protesters quickly adopted both his call for a tea party and his general abhorrence of government that took from the virtuous and the successful and gave to the poor, the uninsured, the bankrupt—in short, the losers. It sounded harsh, Santelli quickly conceded, but “at the end of the day I’m an Ayn Rander.”

Ayn Rand, of course, was a kind of politicized L. Ron Hubbard—a novelist-philosopher who inspired a cult of acolytes who deem her the greatest human being who ever lived. The enduring heart of Rand’s totalistic philosophy was Marxism flipped upside down. Rand viewed the capitalists, not the workers, as the producers of all wealth, and the workers, not the capitalists, as useless parasites.

John Galt, the protagonist of her iconic novel Atlas Shrugged, expressed Rand’s inverted Marxism: “The man at the top of the intellectual pyramid contributes the most to all those below him, but gets nothing except his material payment, receiving no intellectual bonus from others to add to the value of his time. The man at the bottom who, left to himself, would starve in his hopeless ineptitude, contributes nothing to those above him, but receives the bonus of all of their brains.”

In 2009 Rand began popping up all over the Tea Party movement. Sales of her books skyrocketed, and signs quoting her ideas appeared constantly at rallies. Conservatives asserted that the events of the Obama administration eerily paralleled the plot of Atlas Shrugged, in which a liberal government precipitates economic collapse.

One conservative making that point was Ryan. His citation of Rand was not casual. He’s a Rand nut. In the days before his star turn as America’s Accountant, Ryan once appeared at a gathering to honor her philosophy, where he announced, “The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand.” He continues to view Rand as a lodestar, requiring his staffers to digest her creepy tracts.

When Ryan warns of the specter of collapse, he is not merely referring to the alarming gap between government outlays and receipts, as his admirers in the media assume. (Every policy change of the last decade that increased the deficit—the Bush tax cuts, the Medicare prescription-drug benefit, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq—Ryan voted for.) He is also invoking Rand’s almost theological certainty that when a government punishes the strong to reward the weak, it must invariably collapse. That is the crisis his Path to Prosperity seeks to avert.

Viewed as an effort to reduce the debt, Ryan’s plan makes little sense. Many of its proposals either have nothing to do with reducing deficits (repealing the financial-reform bill loathed by Wall Street) or actually increase deficits (making the Bush tax cuts permanent). It relies heavily on distant, phantasmal cuts. During the debate over health-care reform, Ryan insisted that Medicare cuts used to finance universal coverage might add up on paper but they’d never stick—they were too far down the road, and Congress would just walk them back when people complained.

But Ryan proposes identical cuts in his own plan. What’s more, he saves trillions of dollars from Medicare by imposing huge cuts on anybody who retires starting in 2022. So not only has he adopted the cuts he claimed would never come to pass because they’re too harsh and too distant, he imposes far harsher and more distant cuts of his own. Indeed, Alice Rivlin, the fiscally conservative Democratic economist who endorsed an earlier version of his Medicare plan, called his new plan unrealistic. (Ryan nonetheless continues to imply that she supports it.)

Ryan’s plan does do two things in immediate and specific ways: hurt the poor and help the rich. After extending the Bush tax cuts, he would cut the top rate for individuals and corporations from 35 percent to 25 percent. Then Ryan slashes Medicaid, Pell Grants, food stamps, and low-income housing. These programs to help the poor, which constitute approximately 21 percent of the federal budget, absorb two thirds of Ryan’s cuts.

Ryan spares anybody over the age of 55 from any Medicare or Social Security cuts, because, he says, they “have organized their lives around these programs.” But the roughly one in seven Americans (and nearly one in four children) on food stamps? Apparently they can have their benefits yanked away because they were only counting on using them to eat.

Ryan casts these cuts as an incentive for the poor to get off their lazy butts. He insists that we “ensure that America’s safety net does not become a hammock that lulls able-bodied citizens into lives of complacency and dependency.” It’s worth translating what Ryan means here. Welfare reform was premised on the tough but persuasive argument that providing long-term cash payments to people who don’t work encourages long-term dependency. Ryan is saying that the poor should not only be denied cash income but also food and health care.

The class tinge of Ryan’s Path to Prosperity is striking. The poorest Americans would suffer immediate, explicit budget cuts. Middle-class Americans would face distant, uncertain reductions in benefits. And the richest Americans would enjoy an immediate windfall. Santelli, in his original rant, demanded that we “reward people [who can] carry the water instead of drink the water.” Ryan won’t say so, but that’s exactly what he’s doing.

Olbrannon wrote:Newsweek's headline is-

The Tea Party began early in 2009 after an improvised rant by Rick Santelli, a CNBC commentator who called for an uprising to protest the Obama administration’s subsidizing the “losers’ mortgages.” Video of his diatribe rocketed around the country, and protesters quickly adopted both his call for a tea party and his general abhorrence of government that took from the virtuous and the successful and gave to the poor, the uninsured, the bankrupt—in short, the losers. It sounded harsh, Santelli quickly conceded, but “at the end of the day I’m an Ayn Rander.”

Today's Tea Party is nothing like the original Boston Tea Party, that was triggered by huge tax breaks for the East India Tea company.

As for Ayn Rand, she had no problem collecting Social Security and Medicare despite wanting to deny it to others in need.

http://www.alternet.org/teaparty/149721

Ayn Rand Railed Against Government Benefits, But Grabbed Social Security and Medicare When She Needed Them
At least she put up a fight before succumbing to the imperatives of the real world.
January 29, 2011 |


Ayn Rand was not only a schlock novelist, she was also the progenitor of a sweeping “moral philosophy” that justifies the privilege of the wealthy and demonizes not only the slothful, undeserving poor but the lackluster middle-classes as well.

Her books provided wide-ranging parables of "parasites," "looters" and "moochers" using the levers of government to steal the fruits of her heroes' labor. In the real world, however, Rand herself received Social Security payments and Medicare benefits under the name of Ann O'Connor (her husband was Frank O'Connor).

As Michael Ford of Xavier University's Center for the Study of the American Dream wrote, “In the end, Miss Rand was a hypocrite but she could never be faulted for failing to act in her own self-interest.”

Her ideas about government intervention in some idealized pristine marketplace serve as the basis for so much of the conservative rhetoric we see today. “The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand,” said Paul Ryan, the GOP's young budget star at a D.C. event honoring the author. On another occasion, he proclaimed, “Rand makes the best case for the morality of democratic capitalism.”

“Morally and economically,” wrote Rand in a 1972 newsletter, “the welfare state creates an ever accelerating downward pull.”

Journalist Patia Stephens wrote of Rand:

[She] called altruism a “basic evil” and referred to those who perpetuate the system of taxation and redistribution as “looters” and “moochers.” She wrote in her book “The Virtue of Selfishness” that accepting any government controls is “delivering oneself into gradual enslavement.”

Rand also believed that the scientific consensus on the dangers of tobacco was a hoax. By 1974, the two-pack-a-day smoker, then 69, required surgery for lung cancer. And it was at that moment of vulnerability that she succumbed to the lure of collectivism.

Evva Joan Pryor, who had been a social worker in New York in the 1970s, was interviewed in 1998 by Scott McConnell, who was then the director of communications for the Ayn Rand Institute. In his book, 100 Voices: An Oral History of Ayn Rand, McConnell basically portrays Rand as first standing on principle, but then being mugged by reality. Stephens points to this exchange between McConnell and Pryor.

“She was coming to a point in her life where she was going to receive the very thing she didn’t like, which was Medicare and Social Security,” Pryor told McConnell. “I remember telling her that this was going to be difficult. For me to do my job she had to recognize that there were exceptions to her theory. So that started our political discussions. From there on – with gusto – we argued all the time.

The initial argument was on greed,” Pryor continued. “She had to see that there was such a thing as greed in this world. Doctors could cost an awful lot more money than books earn, and she could be totally wiped out by medical bills if she didn’t watch it. Since she had worked her entire life, and had paid into Social Security, she had a right to it. She didn’t feel that an individual should take help.”

Rand had paid into the system, so why not take the benefits? It's true, but according to Stephens, some of Rand's fellow travelers remained true to their principles.

Rand is one of three women the Cato Institute calls founders of American libertarianism. The other two, Rose Wilder Lane and Isabel “Pat” Paterson, both rejected Social Security benefits on principle. Lane, with whom Rand corresponded for several years, once quit an editorial job in order to avoid paying Social Security taxes. The Cato Institute says Lane considered Social Security a “Ponzi fraud” and “told friends that it would be immoral of her to take part in a system that would predictably collapse so catastrophically.” Lane died in 1968.

Paterson would end up dying a pauper. Rand went a different way.

But at least she put up a fight before succumbing to the imperatives of the real world – one in which people get sick, and old, and many who are perfectly decent and hardworking don't end up being independently wealthy.

The degree to which Ayn Rand has become a touchstone for the modern conservative movement is striking. She was a sexual libertine, and, according to writer Mark Ames, she modeled her heroic characters on one of the most despicable sociopaths of her time. Ames’ conclusion is important for understanding today’s political economy. “Whenever you hear politicians or Tea Partiers dividing up the world between ‘producers’ and ‘collectivism,’” he wrote, “just know that those ideas and words more likely than not are derived from the deranged mind of a serial-killer groupie....And when you see them taking their razor blades to the last remaining programs protecting the middle class from total abject destitution—Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid—and bragging about how they are slashing these programs for ‘moral’ reasons, just remember Rand’s morality and who inspired her.”

Now we know that Rand was also just as hypocritical as the Tea Party freshman who railed against “government health care” to get elected and then whined that he had to wait a month before getting his own Cadillac plan courtesy of the taxpayers.

But, as I note in my book, The Fifteen Biggest Lies About the Economy, that's par for the course. A central rule of the U.S. political economy is that people are attracted to the idea of “limited government” in the abstract—and certainly don’t want the government intruding in their homes—but they really, really like living in a society with adequately funded public services.

That's just as true for an icon of modern conservatism as it is for a poor mother getting public health care for her kids.

if she is to collect social security, medicaid, at least she earned it.

she contributed to the pool of human ideas a work that set many minds whirring; perhaps, in many millions of years, this will lead to something.

compared to average social security, medicaid recipient, who is utterly worthless, truly worthless in every sense of worthlessness, she can collect.

orangeblobman wrote:i do not know of rand, i have not read her big, seminal shrugged atlas, but i will say this.

if she is to collect social security, medicaid, at least she earned it.

she contributed to the pool of human ideas a work that set many minds whirring; perhaps, in many millions of years, this will lead to something.

compared to average social security, medicaid recipient, who is utterly worthless, truly worthless in every sense of worthlessness, she can collect.

I'll bet a majority of the posters here from the US have relatives who collect Social Security and Medicare, are they worthless Blob?

GustavBahler wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:i do not know of rand, i have not read her big, seminal shrugged atlas, but i will say this.

if she is to collect social security, medicaid, at least she earned it.

she contributed to the pool of human ideas a work that set many minds whirring; perhaps, in many millions of years, this will lead to something.

compared to average social security, medicaid recipient, who is utterly worthless, truly worthless in every sense of worthlessness, she can collect.

I'll bet a majority of the posters here from the US have relatives who collect Social Security and Medicare, are they worthless Blob?

are they, gustav? you tell me. what does posting on uk hold as far as a person's worth to humanity?

i do not know.

gustav, i ask you, have you been to "bad" areas of urban, suburban america?

have you worked menial clerk jobs, coming into contact with this social security, medicare underclass? better yet, have you worked white collar medical jobs, coming into contact with this underclass?

not everyone is good, not everyone is the same.

so i do not give a crap.

orangeblobman wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:i do not know of rand, i have not read her big, seminal shrugged atlas, but i will say this.

if she is to collect social security, medicaid, at least she earned it.

she contributed to the pool of human ideas a work that set many minds whirring; perhaps, in many millions of years, this will lead to something.

compared to average social security, medicaid recipient, who is utterly worthless, truly worthless in every sense of worthlessness, she can collect.

I'll bet a majority of the posters here from the US have relatives who collect Social Security and Medicare, are they worthless Blob?

are they, gustav? you tell me. what does posting on uk hold as far as a person's worth to humanity?

i do not know.

gustav, i ask you, have you been to "bad" areas of urban, suburban america?

have you worked menial clerk jobs, coming into contact with this social security, medicare underclass? better yet, have you worked white collar medical jobs, coming into contact with this underclass?

not everyone is good, not everyone is the same.

That's not an answer to my question but I'll answer yours. I've worked menial jobs, white collar jobs, I've lived in poor, dangerous, neighborhoods, and very exclusive ones. I've been with and without money. Why do you ask?

GustavBahler wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:i do not know of rand, i have not read her big, seminal shrugged atlas, but i will say this.

if she is to collect social security, medicaid, at least she earned it.

she contributed to the pool of human ideas a work that set many minds whirring; perhaps, in many millions of years, this will lead to something.

compared to average social security, medicaid recipient, who is utterly worthless, truly worthless in every sense of worthlessness, she can collect.

I'll bet a majority of the posters here from the US have relatives who collect Social Security and Medicare, are they worthless Blob?

are they, gustav? you tell me. what does posting on uk hold as far as a person's worth to humanity?

i do not know.

gustav, i ask you, have you been to "bad" areas of urban, suburban america?

have you worked menial clerk jobs, coming into contact with this social security, medicare underclass? better yet, have you worked white collar medical jobs, coming into contact with this underclass?

not everyone is good, not everyone is the same.

That's not an answer to my question but I'll answer yours. I've worked menial jobs, white collar jobs, I've lived in poor, dangerous, neighborhoods, and very exclusive ones. I've been with and without money. Why do you ask?

i ask because if you have, you have come in contact with this segment, this majority, really.

what do you know to be true?

you may not want to say what is worthless, who is worthless, but if you have experience, and if you are at all true to yourself you will admit what i say.

orangeblobman wrote:my point is that many, if not most, of these people are pure garbage.

so i do not give a crap.

I realize that. It must be very difficult dealing with all that anger.

GustavBahler wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:my point is that many, if not most, of these people are pure garbage.

so i do not give a crap.

I realize that. It must be very difficult dealing with all that anger.

what anger, gustav?

you imagine anger where there is none, because you cannot reconcile the truth with your delusion. this is the process of your mind. recognize and correct, or do not recognize and continue.

peace, peace, ultimate peace comes and there is no violence when one accepts reality.

orangeblobman wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:i do not know of rand, i have not read her big, seminal shrugged atlas, but i will say this.

if she is to collect social security, medicaid, at least she earned it.

she contributed to the pool of human ideas a work that set many minds whirring; perhaps, in many millions of years, this will lead to something.

compared to average social security, medicaid recipient, who is utterly worthless, truly worthless in every sense of worthlessness, she can collect.

I'll bet a majority of the posters here from the US have relatives who collect Social Security and Medicare, are they worthless Blob?

are they, gustav? you tell me. what does posting on uk hold as far as a person's worth to humanity?

i do not know.

gustav, i ask you, have you been to "bad" areas of urban, suburban america?

have you worked menial clerk jobs, coming into contact with this social security, medicare underclass? better yet, have you worked white collar medical jobs, coming into contact with this underclass?

not everyone is good, not everyone is the same.

That's not an answer to my question but I'll answer yours. I've worked menial jobs, white collar jobs, I've lived in poor, dangerous, neighborhoods, and very exclusive ones. I've been with and without money. Why do you ask?

i ask because if you have, you have come in contact with this segment, this majority, really.

what do you know to be true?

you may not want to say what is worthless, who is worthless, but if you have experience, and if you are at all true to yourself you will admit what i say.

I know that you seem to very angry at the world and a have very low opinion of people in general. Sometimes I feel the same way about folks but not to the point where I describe those less fortunate as I am as "worthless".