Knicks · 106.5PPG....85, 93, 96 (page 1)

Juice @ 4/22/2011 9:51 PM
Yes Billups being hurt and Amar'e not 100% has an effect but in the first game everyone healthy the score was 87-85 so having a full roster doesn't guarantee anything in terms of output.

I was looking at scores from other games since the Playoffs started

Out of 22gms thus far only 9times 8 teams scored or broken 100pts...

They are the

Celtics 113pts
Heat 100pts
Hawks 103pts
Bulls 104pts
Grizzlies 101pts
Hornets 109pts
OKC 106 and 107pts
Mavs 101pts

About a 104.5ppg average

The game slows down in the Playoffs.... better play D no matter who's out on he floor if you want to win

ramtour420 @ 4/22/2011 10:06 PM
Thats what they say . . .
JrZyHuStLa @ 4/22/2011 10:16 PM
This is exactly why you fire Dantoni and bring in a more conventional head coach who understands defense, half court sets, and a physical style of basketball.

This team showed that they're capable of playing this way their first 2 games, only to revert to Dantonis old ways tonight.

BigSm00th @ 4/22/2011 10:31 PM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:This is exactly why you fire Dantoni and bring in a more conventional head coach who understands defense, half court sets, and a physical style of basketball.

This team showed that they're capable of playing this way their first 2 games, only to revert to Dantonis old ways tonight.

i think you and i have been leading this charge.

MDA is redundant. trade him to the warriors for a future first round pick.

arkrud @ 4/22/2011 11:03 PM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:This is exactly why you fire Dantoni and bring in a more conventional head coach who understands defense, half court sets, and a physical style of basketball.

This team showed that they're capable of playing this way their first 2 games, only to revert to Dantonis old ways tonight.

So first 2 games Bilups was coaching and today Mike took over... I see...

Killa4luv @ 4/22/2011 11:44 PM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:This is exactly why you fire Dantoni and bring in a more conventional head coach who understands defense, half court sets, and a physical style of basketball.

This team showed that they're capable of playing this way their first 2 games, only to revert to Dantonis old ways tonight.

I think MDA is the wrong coach, but it's ridiculous to deny him credit for the way we played in the first 2 games.

Juice @ 4/22/2011 11:52 PM
The 106.5ppg was what we scored during the season btw in case anyone didn't catch that. The other scores are what we've produced against the Celtics in this series so far
Childs2Dudley @ 4/23/2011 12:01 AM
It's called the playoffs.

A lot of people here thought we'd still be doing that in the playoffs. This is a sad reality.

martin @ 4/23/2011 12:11 AM
Juice wrote:The 106.5ppg was what we scored during the season btw in case anyone didn't catch that. The other scores are what we've produced against the Celtics in this series so far

Lakers 2 years ago scored 106.9ppg in the regular season. Not sure that stat really tell us anything special.

nixluva @ 4/23/2011 12:24 AM
There was nothing wrong with the D in the 1st 2 games. 2 tough defensive games by the Knicks and today one bad one. We come into this game and lay an egg. Did Mike suddenly stop coaching them for this game? Did the players simply not focus in and defend with the same energy? Did the C's just have one of those games where guys just get hot from outside? Whatever the reason, this team played 2 of the 3 playoff games with intensity on D so let's not exaggerate this one game.

More importantly if we're real this team isn't gonna win without CB and STAT playing at the top of their game. That effects everything on the offensive side, which was the strongest part of our game. All this get rid of the coach stuff is popular right now, but let's be real. The C's may be old but this isn't a team of scrubs. We needed everything to go right and not only didn't everything go right, but we lost key players. So I really don't want to hear about the D.

We need to upgrade the roster not the coach. This is getting foolish now.

JrZyHuStLa @ 4/23/2011 10:24 AM
martin wrote:
Juice wrote:The 106.5ppg was what we scored during the season btw in case anyone didn't catch that. The other scores are what we've produced against the Celtics in this series so far

Lakers 2 years ago scored 106.9ppg in the regular season. Not sure that stat really tell us anything special.

Why didn't you include the fact that they were a respectable 13th in OPP PPG and 6th in OPP FG%?

martin @ 4/23/2011 11:13 AM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
martin wrote:
Juice wrote:The 106.5ppg was what we scored during the season btw in case anyone didn't catch that. The other scores are what we've produced against the Celtics in this series so far

Lakers 2 years ago scored 106.9ppg in the regular season. Not sure that stat really tell us anything special.

Why didn't you include the fact that they were a respectable 13th in OPP PPG and 6th in OPP FG%?

because the topic is about PPG and that's it.

Vmart @ 4/23/2011 11:19 AM
Shots don't always fall, but defense can always be consistent. That is why Defense is so important, maybe MDA will learn from this, highly doubt it though. Definitely need a new coach in here that preaches defense and more defense. Oh where is the pick and roll? that shit don't work unless you have an elite pg running the show and a good defensive team will snuff that out the first chance they get.
Solace @ 4/23/2011 11:49 AM
Juice wrote:Yes Billups being hurt and Amar'e not 100% has an effect but in the first game everyone healthy the score was 87-85 so having a full roster doesn't guarantee anything in terms of output.

I was looking at scores from other games since the Playoffs started

Out of 22gms thus far only 9times 8 teams scored or broken 100pts...

They are the

Celtics 113pts
Heat 100pts
Hawks 103pts
Bulls 104pts
Grizzlies 101pts
Hornets 109pts
OKC 106 and 107pts
Mavs 101pts

About a 104.5ppg average

The game slows down in the Playoffs.... better play D no matter who's out on he floor if you want to win

These numbers are not exactly accurate. Are you only showing the winning teams? You're missing some, otherwise.

BlueSeats @ 4/23/2011 11:56 AM
nixluva wrote:There was nothing wrong with the D in the 1st 2 games. 2 tough defensive games by the Knicks and today one bad one. We come into this game and lay an egg. Did Mike suddenly stop coaching them for this game? Did the players simply not focus in and defend with the same energy? Did the C's just have one of those games where guys just get hot from outside? Whatever the reason, this team played 2 of the 3 playoff games with intensity on D so let's not exaggerate this one game.

'luva, if you're honest with yourself you'll admit that the defensive intensity was surprisingly good for the first two games. When that level of intensity is no longer surprising but the norm then this coach will be getting a pass on defense, but not until.

martin @ 4/23/2011 12:00 PM
BlueSeats wrote:
nixluva wrote:There was nothing wrong with the D in the 1st 2 games. 2 tough defensive games by the Knicks and today one bad one. We come into this game and lay an egg. Did Mike suddenly stop coaching them for this game? Did the players simply not focus in and defend with the same energy? Did the C's just have one of those games where guys just get hot from outside? Whatever the reason, this team played 2 of the 3 playoff games with intensity on D so let's not exaggerate this one game.

'luva, if you're honest with yourself you'll admit that the defensive intensity was surprisingly good for the first two games. When that level of intensity is no longer surprising but the norm then this coach will be getting a pass on defense, but not until.

I thought Amare was a big reason in game 3 for the dropoff. I know he was hurt, but he stood around looking a balls that were like 3-5 feet away from him while Rondo sprinted, grabbed and then hit Ray for open 3s. Horrible.

BlueSeats @ 4/23/2011 12:24 PM
martin wrote:
BlueSeats wrote:
nixluva wrote:There was nothing wrong with the D in the 1st 2 games. 2 tough defensive games by the Knicks and today one bad one. We come into this game and lay an egg. Did Mike suddenly stop coaching them for this game? Did the players simply not focus in and defend with the same energy? Did the C's just have one of those games where guys just get hot from outside? Whatever the reason, this team played 2 of the 3 playoff games with intensity on D so let's not exaggerate this one game.

'luva, if you're honest with yourself you'll admit that the defensive intensity was surprisingly good for the first two games. When that level of intensity is no longer surprising but the norm then this coach will be getting a pass on defense, but not until.

I thought Amare was a big reason in game 3 for the dropoff. I know he was hurt, but he stood around looking a balls that were like 3-5 feet away from him while Rondo sprinted, grabbed and then hit Ray for open 3s. Horrible.

I had trouble getting a solid feed for the 1st quarter, but my sense is they shut off Melo, took the wind out of our sails and pounced. And Amare was a mannequin all game.

But the point remains, why style the regular season on scoring 110 pts and "making them adjust to us" only to do a 180 for the post season? Do we really want good defensive intensity to be a surprising treat?

I'm not in the "fire D'Antoni" camp, I'm in the let him finish out his contract next year camp. D' seems to have been adjusting the system to the roster since the trade (not like he had a choice w/ Felton gone.) We're getting a sense of how this team could play d (in spite of the excuse that we don't have the defensive players for it) and I think we all like it when they do. If they pick up where they left off next year then MDA might get an extension, if not, he had his chance.

Juice @ 4/23/2011 12:50 PM
Solace wrote:
Juice wrote:Yes Billups being hurt and Amar'e not 100% has an effect but in the first game everyone healthy the score was 87-85 so having a full roster doesn't guarantee anything in terms of output.

I was looking at scores from other games since the Playoffs started

Out of 22gms thus far only 12times 11teams scored or broken 100pts...

They are the

Celtics 113pts
Heat 100pts
Hawks 103pts
Bulls 104pts
Grizzlies 101pts
Hornets 109pts
OKC 106 and 107pts
Denver 103pts
Lakers 100pts 100pts
Mavs 101pts

About a 103ppg average

The game slows down in the Playoffs.... better play D no matter who's out on he floor if you want to win

These numbers are not exactly accurate. Are you only showing the winning teams? You're missing some, otherwise.

I missed Lakers and Denver but updated.... overall PPG average drops. Probably should have posted full scores therefore the amount of times the score was in the 80s or below they would have stood out more which is like around 17,18 times.

I'm just pointing out you can't expect to win trying to have higher pace scoring output. The pace of the game is greatly affected once the playoffs starts. There may be 1-2 teams who can play at a high rate comparable to their regular season play or better but very rarely do those teams advance(Phx teams). Most teams are below their regular season scoring average and some by a wide margin(Denver and Knicks being 2 of them) 2 Teams who had the Top 5 offenses during the regular season

Last year Melo's Nuggets ppg average went up in the playoffs too bad for them, so did their PA by much more. For the most part teams should want/look for those numbers to drop and realize controlling a slower paced game presents more of a chance to win not trying to create a faster one.

martin @ 4/23/2011 12:52 PM
BlueSeats wrote:
martin wrote:
BlueSeats wrote:
nixluva wrote:There was nothing wrong with the D in the 1st 2 games. 2 tough defensive games by the Knicks and today one bad one. We come into this game and lay an egg. Did Mike suddenly stop coaching them for this game? Did the players simply not focus in and defend with the same energy? Did the C's just have one of those games where guys just get hot from outside? Whatever the reason, this team played 2 of the 3 playoff games with intensity on D so let's not exaggerate this one game.

'luva, if you're honest with yourself you'll admit that the defensive intensity was surprisingly good for the first two games. When that level of intensity is no longer surprising but the norm then this coach will be getting a pass on defense, but not until.

I thought Amare was a big reason in game 3 for the dropoff. I know he was hurt, but he stood around looking a balls that were like 3-5 feet away from him while Rondo sprinted, grabbed and then hit Ray for open 3s. Horrible.

I had trouble getting a solid feed for the 1st quarter, but my sense is they shut off Melo, took the wind out of our sails and pounced. And Amare was a mannequin all game.

But the point remains, why style the regular season on scoring 110 pts and "making them adjust to us" only to do a 180 for the post season? Do we really want good defensive intensity to be a surprising treat?

I'm not in the "fire D'Antoni" camp, I'm in the let him finish out his contract next year camp. D' seems to have been adjusting the system to the roster since the trade (not like he had a choice w/ Felton gone.) We're getting a sense of how this team could play d (in spite of the excuse that we don't have the defensive players for it) and I think we all like it when they do. If they pick up where they left off next year then MDA might get an extension, if not, he had his chance.

I think you answered your own question: "why style the regular season on scoring 110 pts": The Knicks have had 2 entirely different teams from start to finish, and realistically they now have a 3rd'ish team to adjust playing style to over the past 2 games now that Amare is out and TD has replaced Billups (TD can't push and he can barely do PnR).

I never understood the correlation between the offensive output - whether it be 85 points, 106.5ppg, or 110ppg - and the tact of pinning that number to defense. You either play defense or you don't, and just because you score 110 vs 85 isn't an indication of whether you are playing defense or not.

The Knicks need interior defense, and they need Amare to actually play defense and rebound, no doubt about it. I think Amare/MDA/Knicks used the excuse of both a thin front line regarding size (AR, Moz provided zero for the first half season+ while Turiaf was effective for about half games cause of injury and only 20 or so minutes when he could play) and thin in terms of offensive focus if Amare was not playing, and that all added up to Amare playing less defense so as to be on the floor more (we all know he turned to matador when getting 2 fouls in first half or 4 in second half of games).

With Melo on roster, Amare has zero excuse with the foul trouble thing. JJ/Sheldon provide some depth at the C/PF spots, although both are seriously flawed.

I am in the same boat you are with MDA. The first 2 years everyone should have known they were going to be losing efforts and you can't really get much value from watching and making a determination. This year was about getting to playoffs and Knicks still had too much turnover and 2 really ill-timed injuries during playoffs. C'est la vie.

MDA gets until about mid-season for me, especially if Melo and Amare are healthy. I am guessing Billups will be back too.

Juice @ 4/23/2011 1:07 PM
BlueSeats wrote:
martin wrote:
BlueSeats wrote:
nixluva wrote:There was nothing wrong with the D in the 1st 2 games. 2 tough defensive games by the Knicks and today one bad one. We come into this game and lay an egg. Did Mike suddenly stop coaching them for this game? Did the players simply not focus in and defend with the same energy? Did the C's just have one of those games where guys just get hot from outside? Whatever the reason, this team played 2 of the 3 playoff games with intensity on D so let's not exaggerate this one game.

'luva, if you're honest with yourself you'll admit that the defensive intensity was surprisingly good for the first two games. When that level of intensity is no longer surprising but the norm then this coach will be getting a pass on defense, but not until.

I thought Amare was a big reason in game 3 for the dropoff. I know he was hurt, but he stood around looking a balls that were like 3-5 feet away from him while Rondo sprinted, grabbed and then hit Ray for open 3s. Horrible.

If they pick up where they left off next year then MDA might get an extension, if not, he had his chance.


Actually they didn't look anywhere close to an adequate defensive team season's end compared to 1rst 2gms of playoffs. Sometimes wins skew reality. While we were winning...... teams were still putting up the pts and shooting very good field goal percentages.

Now that the playoffs have arrived most of the complaints have been about the bench and LACK OF TALENT and usually when fans scream LACK OF TALENT it concerns offense. We're not going to able to fill our team out and get the DEFENSE we desperately need this summer, while at the same time beefing up our bench with TALENT unless we let go of the POINT GUARD that fans also state is so critical. Even going this route, it's going to be so difficult

So say we bring in someone like a Jamal Crawford who is an upgrade in talent eating up most of the cap. We can't then say as fans well D'AnToni still doesn't have players who play defense so he can't win with or coach this style of play because the roster is devoid of such personnel. Not to mention acquiring a player such as Jamal or Marcus Thornton or Michael Redd it's already known what they don't do.

BlueSeats @ 4/23/2011 1:36 PM
Juicy, when I said "pick up where they left off" I was referring to the playoffs. The end of the season wasn't a good measure of anything because the Knicks were injured/tired/resting up.
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