AnubisADL wrote:martin wrote:^ awesome, that gets you Mayo. How do you come up with anything for Cleveland for a starting C and PG?
Cleveland is in Rebuild mode.
Varejao is owed almost 36 million and he is 29 yrs old. Ryan Hollins and some other D League scrub is a cheaper option for them at this point.
Im thinking:
Billups, Douglas, maybe a 2nd rounder for Varejao, Gibson, Sessions. Cleveland would still have Davis and their D league scrubs plus whoever they draft.
so you think CLE is willing to give away a decent starting center and a better backup PG in Session so that they can pay $30M for 2 PGs in Billups and Baron?
I know they are rebuilding but that doesn't mean you give away a decent C who is relatively cheap by all comparisons.
Varejao is owed about $25M with a team option 4th year. $8M per is good value, and you just don't trade it for expirings.
martin wrote:AnubisADL wrote:martin wrote:^ awesome, that gets you Mayo. How do you come up with anything for Cleveland for a starting C and PG?
Cleveland is in Rebuild mode.
Varejao is owed almost 36 million and he is 29 yrs old. Ryan Hollins and some other D League scrub is a cheaper option for them at this point.
Im thinking:
Billups, Douglas, maybe a 2nd rounder for Varejao, Gibson, Sessions. Cleveland would still have Davis and their D league scrubs plus whoever they draft.
so you think CLE is willing to give away a decent starting center and a better backup PG in Session so that they can pay $30M for 2 PGs in Billups and Baron?
I know they are rebuilding but that doesn't mean you give away a decent C who is relatively cheap by all comparisons.
Varejao is owed about $25M with a team option 4th year. $8M per is good value, and you just don't trade it for expirings.
Billups wont ever play for Cleveland and that means buyout.
Im not dead set on any players. They dont except the deal then move on to the next team.
Who would have though Minnesota would take Eddy Curry's deal for Anthony Randolph?
If Cleveland didn't already have Baron Davis there I could see a slim chance of Cleveland dealing for an expiring point guard but Anubis idea has no chance of happening.
AnubisADL wrote:martin wrote:AnubisADL wrote:martin wrote:^ awesome, that gets you Mayo. How do you come up with anything for Cleveland for a starting C and PG?
Cleveland is in Rebuild mode.
Varejao is owed almost 36 million and he is 29 yrs old. Ryan Hollins and some other D League scrub is a cheaper option for them at this point.
Im thinking:
Billups, Douglas, maybe a 2nd rounder for Varejao, Gibson, Sessions. Cleveland would still have Davis and their D league scrubs plus whoever they draft.
so you think CLE is willing to give away a decent starting center and a better backup PG in Session so that they can pay $30M for 2 PGs in Billups and Baron?
I know they are rebuilding but that doesn't mean you give away a decent C who is relatively cheap by all comparisons.
Varejao is owed about $25M with a team option 4th year. $8M per is good value, and you just don't trade it for expirings.
Billups wont ever play for Cleveland and that means buyout.
Im not dead set on any players. They dont except the deal then move on to the next team.
Who would have though Minnesota would take Eddy Curry's deal for Anthony Randolph?
They took Curry's deal because they wanted Randolph. Who are we giving to Cleveland that they want?
I personally would go with adding players now instead of waiting, because you never know if those players really want to come here.
I call it the the Utah plan, but I think the knicks should trade Billups and our 17th to the Jazz for Devin Harris and Okur's expiring. We should also sign AK47 to help with the defense.
C:Okur/Jerome Jordan
Pf:Amare/Shawn
Sf:Melo/Feilds
Sg:AK47/Walker
Pg:Harris/TD
CP3 or bust, I would rather Deron but I think he's gonna stay with the Nets he prob likes being the man over there without sharing the spotlight.
I think we should take a hard look at Tyson Chandler and figure out a way to get a PG the can run an offense. Someone mentioned a trade for Nash. I wouldn't be aposed if it was possible and didn't screw us long term.
MSG3 wrote:I think we should take a hard look at Tyson Chandler and figure out a way to get a PG the can run an offense. Someone mentioned a trade for Nash. I wouldn't be aposed if it was possible and didn't screw us long term.
And I know this means letting Billups walk.
Billups, our pick, and 3 mil for varejao and sessions.
C varejao pf stoudemire sf melo sg fields pg sessions
Before we can make the difficult decision whether to focus on getting a third star next year, or focus on getting an okay PG and C this off season, we really need to know what the new CBA is and whether there is a lock out. If there is a lockout and we miss half the season then I'm okay with us sacrificing next year. If it's a full season then that changes things.
Also we need to know id Walsh is back- if he is, then he's probably patient enough to wait, if he goes and we get IT then expect to overspend on an okay PG and C.
Also we need to see what happens with the 2012 FA- I think Dwight Howard wants to go to LA, doubt he's keen on NY. Deron Williams may extend with the Nets. That would really just leave CP3 and I'm not so keen on him due to his knee issues.
Would having 3 stars and little else work? I'm not sure at all- I prefer a well rounded team. But I guess a lot of it's out of our hands, hich makes the decision easier. Once the above is sorted, then it'll be easier to make.
It's going to take a world class, pass first PG to get and keep Melo and Amar'e hot simultaneously
SupremeCommander wrote:It's going to take a world class, pass first PG to get and keep Melo and Amar'e hot simultaneously
I really like the idea of Nash running this offense for a couple of seasons.
martin wrote:crzymdups wrote:I really don't like the idea of waiting around for the CHANCE to sign CP3 or Deron or even Dwight. I think we have enough star power... we need to try to find some young guys who can develop into corner stones for the team. This team needs its Rondo and KPerkins - young guys who grow into important players.
for me it's not so much as waiting for the chance at those guys so much as what better options are there to spend money on that really qualifies as building a championship contender?
The Knicks need PG and C. Realistically, at C you have Tyson Chandler and Nene out there (and then scrubs after that). Chandler ain't going anywhere and unless Denver collapses and Nene decides he doesn't like his family being out there (I think I recall his wife being pregnant and really liking area, I could be wrong on that), who else do you target that's worth spending money? All the other worthwhile C's are RFA.
I don't see any PGs out there that you would forgo Billups and sign for major money.
So, if you buy out Billups, all you are left with are dudes in the $3-7M range and whose quality matches that - guys who have MAJOR flaws in their games.
I don't understand the logic that says, I can't wait 1 more year for the perfect fit guy in CP3/DWilliams or even Dwight Howard - and any of those guys would solidify 5-8 years of legitimately competing for EC - because of impatience.
It's the old, you can have 1 candy now or 100 pieces of candy tomorrow if you wait.
Someone help me understand who are the guys that are worth it this year that the Knicks should go all in with?
Agreed. There isn't much out there for us this summer. If we buy out Billups we'd have about 6-7 mill, I believe to spend. Thats not getting us much at all. I think we should focus on the draft, perhaps buy a late first rounder because ultimately, we need a serious upgrade in talent.
I'm not taking myself out of the game when you have serious game changers available next year and we have the ability to add one of them if we're patient. We dumped for Lebron and ended up with Melo. Not a bad consilation at all. Odds are strong that we can land one of them (Howard, Paul, Williams) Paul was the one that talked about teaming with Stat and Melo here, before Melo was fitted for a blue and orange uni. Its 2/3's of the way complete. I'd hold him to his word. Theres always some truth in jokes 
The issue people don't see is the CBA. If something restricts movement or there's a lower cap, NY has no chance without a trade.
We need to make corrections now that will get us out of the first round next season. Our top priority is a penetrating, ball distributing PG with some mid-range shooting skills.
Second, we need a strong presence in the paint. Rebounding and shot blocking is the priority. Scoring is a plus.
Shelden Williams should be retained as a big body and solid bench player.
MSG3 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:It's going to take a world class, pass first PG to get and keep Melo and Amar'e hot simultaneously
I really like the idea of Nash running this offense for a couple of seasons.
Before I thought Billups would be better than Nash, but now I'm 100 percent with you
Steve Nash is NOT the answer. The guy is too old and is a terrible defender.
Plus I don't see phoenix trading him this season.
Martin, I'm with you 100%. We've waited so long. The way this is playing out, it looks like we've got to wait a bit longer to get it done right.
We should look to make ourselves more competitive and get our guys more playoff experience while not blowing our flexibility on mediocre to good players this off season. They won't get us over the top. Just doesn't look like there's anyone out there that we can get this off season that gives us a legit shot at a title. CP3, Deron and Howard (my first choice) are at a different level from the options we'd have now -- they'd make us perennial contenders. So, unless something great presents itself, we go for 1-year contracts or low cost contracts, draft wisely and let the team gel for another year -- maybe trade at the deadline again and get another difference maker.
Billups is overpaid at $14M, but who can we get that's better who'd have a contract that expires after next season?
martin wrote:crzymdups wrote:I really don't like the idea of waiting around for the CHANCE to sign CP3 or Deron or even Dwight. I think we have enough star power... we need to try to find some young guys who can develop into corner stones for the team. This team needs its Rondo and KPerkins - young guys who grow into important players.
for me it's not so much as waiting for the chance at those guys so much as what better options are there to spend money on that really qualifies as building a championship contender?
The Knicks need PG and C. Realistically, at C you have Tyson Chandler and Nene out there (and then scrubs after that). Chandler ain't going anywhere and unless Denver collapses and Nene decides he doesn't like his family being out there (I think I recall his wife being pregnant and really liking area, I could be wrong on that), who else do you target that's worth spending money? All the other worthwhile C's are RFA.
I don't see any PGs out there that you would forgo Billups and sign for major money.
So, if you buy out Billups, all you are left with are dudes in the $3-7M range and whose quality matches that - guys who have MAJOR flaws in their games.
I don't understand the logic that says, I can't wait 1 more year for the perfect fit guy in CP3/DWilliams or even Dwight Howard - and any of those guys would solidify 5-8 years of legitimately competing for EC - because of impatience.
It's the old, you can have 1 candy now or 100 pieces of candy tomorrow if you wait.
Someone help me understand who are the guys that are worth it this year that the Knicks should go all in with?
Agreed Guys -- work on adding a complimentary piece for the long term this off season, along with our first rounder and another purchased one.
Pick up Billups extension for next year, doesn't matter much anyway since letting him go would only mean 6-7 million next year -- hopefully there is an MLE to use in 12 -- pick up Battier with it -- then try to get a center -- then in 13 CP3 -- now you're talkin!!
It doesn't happen over night -- 12 playoffs make it to the second round -- 13 playoffs ECF
Again that's why this trade still makes little sense. We are hoping for Deron Williams or CP3. We have way to much money locked into two guys to make that happen and field a team of guys that can contribute off the bench.
What's to say that Williams doesn't re-up and howard decides he wants to play with them and the nets package Brook Lopez for an All-Star wing.
We had our solid point guard, great depth, solid bigs to develop and the space to add Melo this offseason. We aren't making a ton of noise next year either so we could have just kept the group together and lose in the playoffs and really made a play for dwight or CP3 in free agency.
Melo played medicore in the playoffs at the end of the day. We would have been much more competitve with the guys we had.
MS wrote:Again that's why this trade still makes little sense. We are hoping for Deron Williams or CP3. We have way to much money locked into two guys to make that happen and field a team of guys that can contribute off the bench.What's to say that Williams doesn't re-up and howard decides he wants to play with them and the nets package Brook Lopez for an All-Star wing.
We had our solid point guard, great depth, solid bigs to develop and the space to add Melo this offseason. We aren't making a ton of noise next year either so we could have just kept the group together and lose in the playoffs and really made a play for dwight or CP3 in free agency.
Melo played medicore in the playoffs at the end of the day. We would have been much more competitve with the guys we had.
you cant look it that way. Melo sells jerseys and tickets. This was going to happen no matter what. MSG jacks tickets what... 2 weeks after the trade? Its business. Melo is here to stay and if the Knicks are going to compete for a title they will have to find the parts to fit around him.
1)I would bring Billups back for the $14mm next year
2)Use the MLE to give Michael Redd a one year deal with a team option 2nd
3)spend some money to pick up 2 extra picks in the late first round or early 2nd round and focus on some 4 year college types who are well rounded and skilled and can probably contribute right away (like Fields and Douglas)
My thinking is stay flexible. My hope is I have enough pieces with Billup's expiring contract and other pieces to make a trade for a team having a firesale.
OK4 and Ariza are two long contracts I would look at. NO would save a ton of money and potentially have max cap space to put another star next to CP3.
The Knicks could trade Fields, Billups, Turiaf and pieces for OK4 and Ariza. That would give them the true banger up front and defender on the wing to get the most out of the Amare/Melo tandem
