Knicks · Do we throw away next season Just to wait for CP3?? Or do what we must do now and have no money for CP or D Williams?? (page 3)
MS wrote:Again that's why this trade still makes little sense. We are hoping for Deron Williams or CP3. We have way to much money locked into two guys to make that happen and field a team of guys that can contribute off the bench.What's to say that Williams doesn't re-up and howard decides he wants to play with them and the nets package Brook Lopez for an All-Star wing.
We had our solid point guard, great depth, solid bigs to develop and the space to add Melo this offseason. We aren't making a ton of noise next year either so we could have just kept the group together and lose in the playoffs and really made a play for dwight or CP3 in free agency.
Melo played medicore in the playoffs at the end of the day. We would have been much more competitve with the guys we had.
you cant look it that way. Melo sells jerseys and tickets. This was going to happen no matter what. MSG jacks tickets what... 2 weeks after the trade? Its business. Melo is here to stay and if the Knicks are going to compete for a title they will have to find the parts to fit around him.
1)I would bring Billups back for the $14mm next year
2)Use the MLE to give Michael Redd a one year deal with a team option 2nd
3)spend some money to pick up 2 extra picks in the late first round or early 2nd round and focus on some 4 year college types who are well rounded and skilled and can probably contribute right away (like Fields and Douglas)
My thinking is stay flexible. My hope is I have enough pieces with Billup's expiring contract and other pieces to make a trade for a team having a firesale.
OK4 and Ariza are two long contracts I would look at. NO would save a ton of money and potentially have max cap space to put another star next to CP3.
The Knicks could trade Fields, Billups, Turiaf and pieces for OK4 and Ariza. That would give them the true banger up front and defender on the wing to get the most out of the Amare/Melo tandem
fishmike wrote:MS wrote:Again that's why this trade still makes little sense. We are hoping for Deron Williams or CP3. We have way to much money locked into two guys to make that happen and field a team of guys that can contribute off the bench.What's to say that Williams doesn't re-up and howard decides he wants to play with them and the nets package Brook Lopez for an All-Star wing.
We had our solid point guard, great depth, solid bigs to develop and the space to add Melo this offseason. We aren't making a ton of noise next year either so we could have just kept the group together and lose in the playoffs and really made a play for dwight or CP3 in free agency.
Melo played medicore in the playoffs at the end of the day. We would have been much more competitve with the guys we had.
you cant look it that way. Melo sells jerseys and tickets. This was going to happen no matter what. MSG jacks tickets what... 2 weeks after the trade? Its business. Melo is here to stay and if the Knicks are going to compete for a title they will have to find the parts to fit around him.1)I would bring Billups back for the $14mm next year
2)Use the MLE to give Michael Redd a one year deal with a team option 2nd
3)spend some money to pick up 2 extra picks in the late first round or early 2nd round and focus on some 4 year college types who are well rounded and skilled and can probably contribute right away (like Fields and Douglas)My thinking is stay flexible. My hope is I have enough pieces with Billup's expiring contract and other pieces to make a trade for a team having a firesale.
OK4 and Ariza are two long contracts I would look at. NO would save a ton of money and potentially have max cap space to put another star next to CP3.
The Knicks could trade Fields, Billups, Turiaf and pieces for OK4 and Ariza. That would give them the true banger up front and defender on the wing to get the most out of the Amare/Melo tandem
I disagree that the Knicks would have been more competitive with what they had. Melo wasn't going to free agency and giving up that extension to play with the Knicks, and we'd have been SOL for the long-term.
I would sign on for OK4 and Ariza coming in but that would pretty much destroy the PG situation and the Knicks' flexibility, and I don't even think they'd have to send fields the other way because they could make NO take Balkman or Rautins or Douglas to bring them in. It helps defense-wise and center-wise and brings in good complements, but essentially blows up the PG situation. It basically means the Knicks would have to look for a pass-first point guard in the draft or swap a pick for a vet.
Let's say you can give up Rautins/Billups/Fields to get OK4 and Ariza. NO takes it for the flexibility to add another star and keep David West, and NY wants the defensive players. I'm not saying it's realistic, but for the sake of argument the Knicks probably look like this next year. Ariza's a perfect fit though because he's a great defender and he can hit the open three.
????
Ariza
Anthony
Melo
OK4
Carter
Douglas
Walker
Shawne Williams
Turiaf
Draft a big like Faired or and use the MLE on a PG who can handle the ball like a TJ ford type and it's certainly interesting.
MS wrote:Again that's why this trade still makes little sense. We are hoping for Deron Williams or CP3. We have way to much money locked into two guys to make that happen and field a team of guys that can contribute off the bench.What's to say that Williams doesn't re-up and howard decides he wants to play with them and the nets package Brook Lopez for an All-Star wing.
We had our solid point guard, great depth, solid bigs to develop and the space to add Melo this offseason. We aren't making a ton of noise next year either so we could have just kept the group together and lose in the playoffs and really made a play for dwight or CP3 in free agency.
Melo played medicore in the playoffs at the end of the day. We would have been much more competitve with the guys we had.
Williams and Paul likely don't make it to free agency next year.
Never know what teams will make a crazy offer for Paul or Williams.
I see Brook Lopez as trade bait to bring in a 2nd star.
loweyecue wrote:Trade Amare for Dwight (LA can't match that for value), clear enough space for CP3, add some Mayo then hurry up and wait already. HA!
Trading Amare for Howard would be kind of disrespectful to Amare and it wont happen.
AnubisADL wrote:loweyecue wrote:Trade Amare for Dwight (LA can't match that for value), clear enough space for CP3, add some Mayo then hurry up and wait already. HA!Trading Amare for Howard would be kind of disrespectful to Amare and it wont happen.
I was being facetious, but everything is possible. You just n' need to think out the box sometimes.
AnubisADL wrote:MS wrote:Again that's why this trade still makes little sense. We are hoping for Deron Williams or CP3. We have way to much money locked into two guys to make that happen and field a team of guys that can contribute off the bench.What's to say that Williams doesn't re-up and howard decides he wants to play with them and the nets package Brook Lopez for an All-Star wing.
We had our solid point guard, great depth, solid bigs to develop and the space to add Melo this offseason. We aren't making a ton of noise next year either so we could have just kept the group together and lose in the playoffs and really made a play for dwight or CP3 in free agency.
Melo played medicore in the playoffs at the end of the day. We would have been much more competitve with the guys we had.
Williams and Paul likely don't make it to free agency next year.
Never know what teams will make a crazy offer for Paul or Williams.
I see Brook Lopez as trade bait to bring in a 2nd star.
The only way that Williams doesn't make it to free agency is if New Jersey brings in Dwight Howard, which might happen because they have a ton of picks and some young assets they can give up and they aren't going to care if he signs an extension.
I don't see LA getting Howard because it means getting rid of Odom and Artest, who are both grossly overpaid and have little value as a result.
As far as Amare for Howard goes, NY should make that offer. Orlando won't take it, but they should make it.
If New York's gonna take a shot at somebody, it's going to be Chris Paul if he still wants out of NO by the time everything goes down.
AnubisADL wrote:loweyecue wrote:Trade Amare for Dwight (LA can't match that for value), clear enough space for CP3, add some Mayo then hurry up and wait already. HA!Trading Amare for Howard would be kind of disrespectful to Amare and it wont happen.
You're right but it makes the Knicks better. Then again, it won't happen because Orlando won't make the deal.
y2zipper wrote:AnubisADL wrote:loweyecue wrote:Trade Amare for Dwight (LA can't match that for value), clear enough space for CP3, add some Mayo then hurry up and wait already. HA!Trading Amare for Howard would be kind of disrespectful to Amare and it wont happen.
You're right but it makes the Knicks better. Then again, it won't happen because Orlando won't make the deal.
ORL will be a lottery team once DH leaves, they should definitely consider that trade, if they want to do something different.
mmorman wrote:Agreed Guys -- work on adding a complimentary piece for the long term this off season, along with our first rounder and another purchased one.Pick up Billups extension for next year, doesn't matter much anyway since letting him go would only mean 6-7 million next year -- hopefully there is an MLE to use in 12 -- pick up Battier with it -- then try to get a center -- then in 13 CP3 -- now you're talkin!!
It doesn't happen over night -- 12 playoffs make it to the second round -- 13 playoffs ECF
Why the hard on for Battier??? Ak47 is available and he is a guy who can be the defense anchor for this team.
loweyecue wrote:y2zipper wrote:AnubisADL wrote:loweyecue wrote:Trade Amare for Dwight (LA can't match that for value), clear enough space for CP3, add some Mayo then hurry up and wait already. HA!Trading Amare for Howard would be kind of disrespectful to Amare and it wont happen.
You're right but it makes the Knicks better. Then again, it won't happen because Orlando won't make the deal.
ORL will be a lottery team once DH leaves, they should definitely consider that trade, if they want to do something different.
Yeah, but I think Dwight is going to stay there or New Jersey's going to step up and trade him for a bunch of draft picks and young players. New Jersey could probably give up a better package than Amar'e with all his question marks.
nixluva wrote:Let's get back to reality here. We can't take ourselves out of the Deron or CP3 sweepstakes if we can't come up with a good enough option at point. That said maybe we can make a deal with Kahn in Minny to get a PG out of him. Why wouldn't he make a deal for Luke Ridnour? I still feel like Luke would be a very good fit here. He's got another 3 years on his contract at 3.6, 4 and 4.3 mil. There are so few PG's that are smart enough to run a pro offense. He's not the fastest, but he's a real PG and he can shoot. I think he's wasting away in Minny. He's 30 but should be fine to fill in until we can make a play for someone else.
Are Felton and Ty Lawson both in Denver's long term plan?
nixluva wrote:Let's get back to reality here. We can't take ourselves out of the Deron or CP3 sweepstakes if we can't come up with a good enough option at point. That said maybe we can make a deal with Kahn in Minny to get a PG out of him. Why wouldn't he make a deal for Luke Ridnour? I still feel like Luke would be a very good fit here. He's got another 3 years on his contract at 3.6, 4 and 4.3 mil. There are so few PG's that are smart enough to run a pro offense. He's not the fastest, but he's a real PG and he can shoot. I think he's wasting away in Minny. He's 30 but should be fine to fill in until we can make a play for someone else.
I think Ridnour would be a good fit for the Knicks. The only thing that worries me is his defense but he can 100% run the PNR and will hit wide open shots.
I wonder if the knicks could go all in on a trade for CP3 if that would be best for the team. I'd rather fill our needs now with good role players but if everything the knicks have could net you CP3 and OK4 maybe thats better.
OK4/???
Stat/???
Melo/Shawn
???/Walker
Paul/???
loweyecue wrote:nixluva wrote:Let's get back to reality here. We can't take ourselves out of the Deron or CP3 sweepstakes if we can't come up with a good enough option at point. That said maybe we can make a deal with Kahn in Minny to get a PG out of him. Why wouldn't he make a deal for Luke Ridnour? I still feel like Luke would be a very good fit here. He's got another 3 years on his contract at 3.6, 4 and 4.3 mil. There are so few PG's that are smart enough to run a pro offense. He's not the fastest, but he's a real PG and he can shoot. I think he's wasting away in Minny. He's 30 but should be fine to fill in until we can make a play for someone else.Are Felton and Ty Lawson both in Denver's long term plan?
I think Lawson is. He's pretty much a Nugget until the end of the 2013/2014 season unless they trade him. I would say Felton not so much. He's a FA next summer and is a starter in the league.
Anji wrote:I really hope the knicks trade the pick, we need vets and starters, not projects or rookies that might need 2-4 years to develop.I wonder if the knicks could go all in on a trade for CP3 if that would be best for the team. I'd rather fill our needs now with good role players but if everything the knicks have could net you CP3 and OK4 maybe thats better.
OK4/???
Stat/???
Melo/Shawn
???/Walker
Paul/???
What could the Knicks possibly offer that would land OK4 and CP3?
y2zipper wrote:AnubisADL wrote:MS wrote:Again that's why this trade still makes little sense. We are hoping for Deron Williams or CP3. We have way to much money locked into two guys to make that happen and field a team of guys that can contribute off the bench.What's to say that Williams doesn't re-up and howard decides he wants to play with them and the nets package Brook Lopez for an All-Star wing.
We had our solid point guard, great depth, solid bigs to develop and the space to add Melo this offseason. We aren't making a ton of noise next year either so we could have just kept the group together and lose in the playoffs and really made a play for dwight or CP3 in free agency.
Melo played medicore in the playoffs at the end of the day. We would have been much more competitve with the guys we had.
Williams and Paul likely don't make it to free agency next year.
Never know what teams will make a crazy offer for Paul or Williams.
I see Brook Lopez as trade bait to bring in a 2nd star.
The only way that Williams doesn't make it to free agency is if New Jersey brings in Dwight Howard, which might happen because they have a ton of picks and some young assets they can give up and they aren't going to care if he signs an extension.
I don't see LA getting Howard because it means getting rid of Odom and Artest, who are both grossly overpaid and have little value as a result.
As far as Amare for Howard goes, NY should make that offer. Orlando won't take it, but they should make it.
If New York's gonna take a shot at somebody, it's going to be Chris Paul if he still wants out of NO by the time everything goes down.
Does NJ have the assets to make a trade for Howard? Bropez... and didn't they just give up most of their picks for Williams?
There's a little summary of the Nets' current assets after the Deron Williams trade. They essentially have 7 picks over the next three seasons plus Lopez, so they have plenty of assets to get a Howard deal done if Orlando wants to stockpile. Making salaries match will be a challenge, but New Jersey has 19 million coming off the books, so yeah, they have assets.
y2zipper wrote:http://www.netsdaily.com/2010/12/14/1877...There's a little summary of the Nets' current assets after the Deron Williams trade. They essentially have 7 picks over the next three seasons plus Lopez, so they have plenty of assets to get a Howard deal done if Orlando wants to stockpile. Making salaries match will be a challenge, but New Jersey has 19 million coming off the books, so yeah, they have assets.
none of those picks seem very high though and some of them are second round picks. Nothing overwhelming unless Nets absolutely suck next year and luck into #1-3.
The Nets have seven picks over the next three years, five of their own and two acquired in trades, including the two in the Williams/Vujacic deal. Only two of the picks have protection, the Rockets' 2012 lottery-protected pick; and the Lakers' 2011 first rounder protection which is protected 1-18.Here are the details:
In 2011, the Nets have the Lakers' first round pick (protected 1-18), acquired in the Terrence Williams trade; plus their own second round pick.
In 2012, the Nets have their own first round pick; the Rockets' first round pick (lottery-protected), acquired in the Terrence Williams trade; plus the Heat's second round pick (unprotected), acquired along with Chris Quinn.
In 2013 (and beyond), the Nets have their own first round pick and their own second round pick.