I can go either way with this..I think mike is good at one thing, his system..It would help if he wasn't so rigid and opposed to some defensive help but it is what it is...We won't have a full team next year, we should give Mike the benefit of a doubt and see what he can do next year...After that, Doc or Phil Jackson may want to look at coaching again...It's a win win situation...Maybe Mike blows us away coaching, if not, we go hard for Doc ,Phil and one of the big name PG..By the way, people still thinking DWill is better than Chris Paul..CP3 is having his way with Kobe..
holfresh wrote:I can go either way with this..I think mike is good at one thing, his system..It would help if he wasn't so rigid and opposed to some defensive help but it is what it is...We won't have a full team next year, we should give Mike the benefit of a doubt and see what he can do next year...After that, Doc or Phil Jackson may want to look at coaching again...It's a win win situation...Maybe Mike blows us away coaching, if not, we go hard for Doc ,Phil and one of the big name PG..By the way, people still thinking DWill is better than Chris Paul..CP3 is having his way with Kobe..
you and i don't see eye to eye often but we definitely do here. i think mike should get one training camp with this team and see what he can do. if we have a rough year next year then he goes and we see what's available but i do think he should be afforded that luxury since there's been an incredible amount of turnover in his time coaching here.
and i definitely agree with about cp3. i've always thought cp3 was better than dwill. cp3 has literally carried that team on his back the past few years, he hasn't much surrounding him and he still gets them in the playoffs and throws up triple-doubles. i know his knee is a bit worrisome but he's shown that his knee isn't a problem when he's beating the lakers on his own.
nykshaknbake wrote:You've said that they are these arrogant coach killing divas in the past but does their past really warrant that? I think they've been pretty good character guys since they've been here. What makes you think otherwise?Nalod wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I want Brian Shaw--Phil jackson's top assistant--to coach the Knicks next year. Monty Williams and Tom Thibs both have had a great amount of success. I think a younger guy with some fire, deterimination, and of course acumen would be a perfect fit for this group.
That line of thinking worked great for Rambis.
If Hornets get swept you want Monty? Or is he the "hot dot" of the moment?
I don't think any fan would not like to have the next young great coach but in NY do you really hire an untested entity and throw him out to this media?
Maybe when we were a yoot oriented team but for now you have Billups, Melo and Stat you gotta have major buy in and not have some young dude who they might sicken of real quick. Don't forget we got two divas here and likly billups.
Nobody said Diva's are evil. These guys are big max players and they turn on a coach that coach is done.
My point is you got to have a guy they want.
You won't see a public display when a coach gets cooked.
My point about Rambis who was with Jax for years gets a gig in Minny and kind of messed it up.
Look at Mike Brown in Cle. Lebron wanted him gone and he was got gone even before he left. Mike Brown is a damn fine young coach. Lebron pulled his weight.
MDA has a very good reputation with players.
I think if you can't get MDA his players then he should go. If you have a vision then stick to it even when it needs work.
Lose the battle to win the war........
Melo "bought in".
He scored more and played better defense.
If MDA did not care about defense then why did he step it up?
nyk4ever wrote:holfresh wrote:I can go either way with this..I think mike is good at one thing, his system..It would help if he wasn't so rigid and opposed to some defensive help but it is what it is...We won't have a full team next year, we should give Mike the benefit of a doubt and see what he can do next year...After that, Doc or Phil Jackson may want to look at coaching again...It's a win win situation...Maybe Mike blows us away coaching, if not, we go hard for Doc ,Phil and one of the big name PG..By the way, people still thinking DWill is better than Chris Paul..CP3 is having his way with Kobe..
you and i don't see eye to eye often but we definitely do here. i think mike should get one training camp with this team and see what he can do. if we have a rough year next year then he goes and we see what's available but i do think he should be afforded that luxury since there's been an incredible amount of turnover in his time coaching here.
and i definitely agree with about cp3. i've always thought cp3 was better than dwill. cp3 has literally carried that team on his back the past few years, he hasn't much surrounding him and he still gets them in the playoffs and throws up triple-doubles. i know his knee is a bit worrisome but he's shown that his knee isn't a problem when he's beating the lakers on his own.
I agree with both of you guys. I don't think D'Antoni has been given a fair shake here, considering he started out with a nonsense roster and then we changed it every 3 months. That being said, I think I've seen enough to not think he's the guy to take us to the next level. I'm okay with giving him one more shot, but also okay with letting him go.
i still don't get the argument that d'antoni doesn't care about defense yet jared jeffries got consistent minutes this series.. hell look at turiaf...
FistOfOakley wrote:i still don't get the argument that d'antoni doesn't care about defense yet jared jeffries got consistent minutes this series.. hell look at turiaf...
jeffries was obviously on the floor for his ability in the post on offense
i hope we keep him. i won't be heartbroken if we don't. though, i have my doubts as to the coaches available to us this offseason.
FistOfOakley wrote:i still don't get the argument that d'antoni doesn't care about defense yet jared jeffries got consistent minutes this series.. hell look at turiaf...
It's a cliche that people use.
It's like when they say "once in D'Antoni's doghouse you never get out". Yet pretty much everyone that we've seen go into the doghouse has eventually gotten another shot. They are simply cliche's.
Bippity10 wrote:FistOfOakley wrote:i still don't get the argument that d'antoni doesn't care about defense yet jared jeffries got consistent minutes this series.. hell look at turiaf...
It's a cliche that people use.
It's like when they say "once in D'Antoni's doghouse you never get out". Yet pretty much everyone that we've seen go into the doghouse has eventually gotten another shot. They are simply cliche's.
Wait - who got into MDA's dog house and got another chance to play here? I can think of maybe one and that is Toney Douglas. Nate, Darko, Larry Hughes - all gone. Marbury & Curry too.
I could go either way.
If his contract were expiring I'd probably say lets go in another direction, but firing someone suggests negligence or incompetence and I don't think he's sunk to that kind of level. I think he's been average, and I have trouble firing someone for that, especially after all the turnover and turmoil we've been thru the last 10 years. Give him next season to finish his contract and see if he can get Amare and Melo humming together and playing playoff caliber defense year round.
OTOH, the thing with coaches is you kinda have to fit their style to the tenor of the city for them to really find acceptance. There are plenty of places where a free wheeling style may be desirable, but in spite of all the money and celebrity of NY, it's still a gritty, blue collar sports town. We like our teams to have a mean streak and D's style is a little too fuzzy. It's hard to see it working long term unless he's really racking up the wins.
eViL wrote:Carmelo Anthony and Amar'e Stoudemire raised some eyebrows after Sunday's season-ending loss to the Celtics with seemingly lukewarm support for Mike D'Antoni.Monday, each spoke to reporters and expressed strong backing for the coach.
"Mike is a phenomenal coach," Stoudemire said. "He’s been great my whole career. He’s been great in New York so far this year. I have high confidence in his coaching style and what he can bring to the team.
"Coach Mike is phenomenal. He’s been doing great all year with the different changes we’ve made throughout the season. We’ve been able to maintain and still have a winning record and also have a chance to do something special in the postseason if it weren’t for injuries, so I have high confidence in Coach D’Antoni."
Said Anthony: "I think D'Antoni was very patient. I only can speak on when I got here. I think he's been very patient due to the circumstances. We came a long way, especially when I first got here, with the expectations being so high so quickly.
"For us to lose some games and take a step backward, and then to go out the regular season winning the way we did, you've got to take your hat off to Mike for being able to handle a situation like that, after almost losing damn near the whole team and start off fresh with something new. He lost four key components to his team. They had something rolling here.
"For him to take on another challenge and getting everybody on the same page when we got here, I think it took a lot and I respect that from him."
There is only counted group of coaches in NBA with enough authority to coach Melo, Stat, and Billups.
And the only one available for us from this group is Mike.
So stop bitching and accept the reality. You will need to watch this 
for a while.... 
franco12 wrote:Bippity10 wrote:FistOfOakley wrote:i still don't get the argument that d'antoni doesn't care about defense yet jared jeffries got consistent minutes this series.. hell look at turiaf...
It's a cliche that people use.
It's like when they say "once in D'Antoni's doghouse you never get out". Yet pretty much everyone that we've seen go into the doghouse has eventually gotten another shot. They are simply cliche's.
Wait - who got into MDA's dog house and got another chance to play here? I can think of maybe one and that is Toney Douglas. Nate, Darko, Larry Hughes - all gone. Marbury & Curry too.
Darko, Larry Hughes, Marbury & Curry?
You think any of those guys actually deserved to play?
Nate did see playing time after his benching....and actually averaged more minutes in NY than in Boston. Maybe he was in Doc's doghouse.
eViL wrote:Carmelo Anthony and Amar'e Stoudemire raised some eyebrows after Sunday's season-ending loss to the Celtics with seemingly lukewarm support for Mike D'Antoni.Monday, each spoke to reporters and expressed strong backing for the coach.
"Mike is a phenomenal coach," Stoudemire said. "He’s been great my whole career. He’s been great in New York so far this year. I have high confidence in his coaching style and what he can bring to the team.
"Coach Mike is phenomenal. He’s been doing great all year with the different changes we’ve made throughout the season. We’ve been able to maintain and still have a winning record and also have a chance to do something special in the postseason if it weren’t for injuries, so I have high confidence in Coach D’Antoni."
Said Anthony: "I think D'Antoni was very patient. I only can speak on when I got here. I think he's been very patient due to the circumstances. We came a long way, especially when I first got here, with the expectations being so high so quickly.
"For us to lose some games and take a step backward, and then to go out the regular season winning the way we did, you've got to take your hat off to Mike for being able to handle a situation like that, after almost losing damn near the whole team and start off fresh with something new. He lost four key components to his team. They had something rolling here.
"For him to take on another challenge and getting everybody on the same page when we got here, I think it took a lot and I respect that from him."
trueblue will spin this away bro
Question: For those who feel that D'Antoni didn't get a good shake in his 3-year stint here thus far, and should get at least a full season with this roster...
What changes are you expecting then next season?
We've had 3 years now with this coach and if you don't have a good sense of what to expect from him already, then you haven't been looking closely.
I still see us chucking up 3's. I still see an offense with very few curl plays or post-ups, and relying solely on "floor-spacing" to allow a 2-man PnR game to work. I still see us being in the bottom third of the league in defense, where we've been for the past 3 years.
I really don't see the point in wasting another season with this coach. No, he's not the sole reason we got swept by the Celtics. Injuries and lack of experience certainly played a big part. But irregardless of who was at fault, do you really expect us to ever win a championship playing this style, with this roster centered around Melo/Amar'e? I certainly don't.
If we know this summer that D'Antoni is not our long term solution, we should cut ties now. There's actually going to be a wealth of coaches on the market. Adelman and Sloan are already FA's. Jackson and Rivers are likely retiring, but who knows if a hefty paycheck by Dolan can sway them. Quality assistants like Ron Adams on the Bulls, Brian Shaw of the Lakers, and Lawrence Frank on the Celtics will be looking for a head coaching position. We could always take a flyer on Ewing or Bill Laimbeer.
Phil Jackson and Doc Rivers are exactly the reason why you keep D'Antoni around for the final year of his contract. Those guys are going to step out and take a break, so they won't come back next year, but if you go into the summer of 2012 with the chance to bring in another star and draft a good player this year, you could sway Phil or Doc back into the head coaching game to take a shot at another ring. If you fired D'Antoni to hire somebody who isn't as good as he is like Adleman or Sloan or Mike Brown or some assistant, you're basically stuck with that guy.
If D'Antoni was expiring, I might look elsewhere, but with one year left on the deal and all the shake-ups probably being over, we'll know for sure if Mike D is the right guy or not.
As far as the changes, I expect to see more talent. Nobody can win with bad players, and Mike D has enough talent to get past the first round and make progress.
scoshin wrote:Question: For those who feel that D'Antoni didn't get a good shake in his 3-year stint here thus far, and should get at least a full season with this roster...What changes are you expecting then next season?
We've had 3 years now with this coach and if you don't have a good sense of what to expect from him already, then you haven't been looking closely.
I still see us chucking up 3's. I still see an offense with very few curl plays or post-ups, and relying solely on "floor-spacing" to allow a 2-man PnR game to work. I still see us being in the bottom third of the league in defense, where we've been for the past 3 years.
I really don't see the point in wasting another season with this coach. No, he's not the sole reason we got swept by the Celtics. Injuries and lack of experience certainly played a big part. But irregardless of who was at fault, do you really expect us to ever win a championship playing this style, with this roster centered around Melo/Amar'e? I certainly don't.
If we know this summer that D'Antoni is not our long term solution, we should cut ties now. There's actually going to be a wealth of coaches on the market. Adelman and Sloan are already FA's. Jackson and Rivers are likely retiring, but who knows if a hefty paycheck by Dolan can sway them. Quality assistants like Ron Adams on the Bulls, Brian Shaw of the Lakers, and Lawrence Frank on the Celtics will be looking for a head coaching position. We could always take a flyer on Ewing or Bill Laimbeer.
Curls and other types of motion are indeed part of his playbook. One thing that always seems to escape some fans notice is that we have had to limit the plays due in part to the PG's not being able to execute and also the change in roster. There wasn't enough time to really go deep into the playbook. I know for a fact that there is FAR more to Mike's system than we've been able to see this team do. You have to have capable players at key spots to make that happen. PG being the most key spot. Every PG we've had has lacked the court vision or shooting or driving ability or BB IQ to get things done. Not that there aren't PG's out there who could do it. We just haven't been able to get one. They did try to get Kidd and i'm sure they tried to get other guys like Ridnour. We all KNOW how bad they want Deron or CP3!
Some people want change no matter what and don't really think the situation through. Unfortunately, according to the poll that is most knick fans.
I would have expected more from a basketball town.
y2zipper wrote:As far as the changes, I expect to see more talent. Nobody can win with bad players, and Mike D has enough talent to get past the first round and make progress.
Really depends on matchups and seeding whether the Knicks should be 'expected' to go past the first round. If the Knicks can get 4th seed or above than yes. If they get 5th seed or below than no, I would not expect them to go past the first round.
scoshin wrote:Question: For those who feel that D'Antoni didn't get a good shake in his 3-year stint here thus far, and should get at least a full season with this roster...What changes are you expecting then next season?
We've had 3 years now with this coach and if you don't have a good sense of what to expect from him already, then you haven't been looking closely.
I still see us chucking up 3's. I still see an offense with very few curl plays or post-ups, and relying solely on "floor-spacing" to allow a 2-man PnR game to work. I still see us being in the bottom third of the league in defense, where we've been for the past 3 years.
I really don't see the point in wasting another season with this coach. No, he's not the sole reason we got swept by the Celtics. Injuries and lack of experience certainly played a big part. But irregardless of who was at fault, do you really expect us to ever win a championship playing this style, with this roster centered around Melo/Amar'e? I certainly don't.
If we know this summer that D'Antoni is not our long term solution, we should cut ties now. There's actually going to be a wealth of coaches on the market. Adelman and Sloan are already FA's. Jackson and Rivers are likely retiring, but who knows if a hefty paycheck by Dolan can sway them. Quality assistants like Ron Adams on the Bulls, Brian Shaw of the Lakers, and Lawrence Frank on the Celtics will be looking for a head coaching position. We could always take a flyer on Ewing or Bill Laimbeer.
it's weird to me that you would focus criticism of MDA on his offense. His team's defense sucked, but all year long his offense played 4 on 5 with one of those 4 being a rookie and having a backup PG that didn't know a PnR from a pair tree and yet his offense was rated as one of the best in the league (offensive efficiency).
knickstorrents wrote:Some people want change no matter what and don't really think the situation through. Unfortunately, according to the poll that is most knick fans.I would have expected more from a basketball town.
I think if you have followed this team for your entire life and understand basketball you know it is time to move on. I am not sure why you think this is a knee jerk reaction. There were posts negative posts about D'Antoni when he was rumored to be the choice for the Knicks. Posts about his teams sometimes practicing for as long as 45 minutes, and about how he wouldn't go to Chicago or stay in Phoenix because they wanted him to emphasize defense more. There were also posts and links to articles about his struggles to communicate with players and his fear of confrontations with players. I know because I posted links to all of those articles and I wasn't the only one on here doing it. He was never the right fit and if you are just coming around to that now great. If you want to keep excusing his faults don't accuse others of having a knee jerk reaction when every single fault of his that was documented before he came to NY has appeared and hurt this team while he has been here. I am not even bringing up his style of play which has never won a championship no matter how much talent was in place.
