Knicks · Dalembert likely target (page 4)

I'll be honest, I haven't seen a ton of Dalembert. When I have seen him, he hasn't impressed me. I'm hoping that would be just a small sample set, and he's got more than that.
Fishy's talking about OK4, and when I've seen him play, he's delivered more than I expected. I saw the game live when N.O. was at the garden, and he was definitely more than just a stiff. I think the expectations were high on him, and he's paid more than he's worth, but I think he would be a great compliment to Stat, and he can even score a bit in addition to the other things he brings, that Stat lacks.

Panos wrote:I'll be honest, I haven't seen a ton of Dalembert. When I have seen him, he hasn't impressed me. I'm hoping that would be just a small sample set, and he's got more than that.
Fishy's talking about OK4, and when I've seen him play, he's delivered more than I expected. I saw the game live when N.O. was at the garden, and he was definitely more than just a stiff. I think the expectations were high on him, and he's paid more than he's worth, but I think he would be a great compliment to Stat, and he can even score a bit in addition to the other things he brings, that Stat lacks.

Dalembert's not a superstar by any means, but he's a solid player who can fill a need and doesn't need a ton of plays run for him. That's why he makes so much sense. I agree that OK4/Ariza is better, but I don't know if that type of trade is realistic, especially of NO decides to keep David West and go with what they have next year.

fishmike wrote:I think this is realistic:
Fields, Balkman and Turiaf for Dalembert in a sign and trade. The salaries going out would let us offer Sammy a 4 year $39mm deal. That would look like this:
2011 $8.3mm
2012 $9.2mm
2013 $10.1mm
2014 $11.2mm
total: $38.8mm

Keeps Sac younger, they will want to go that route over paying Dalembert. They get Fields back, we can kick them $3mm to offset Balkman as well.

That would leave us the MLE to use on a more realistic target

So you're telling me we get to retain the MLE and our first round pick? I absolutely love the idea. I don't want to part with Fields but this is the near perfect scenario. We get the solid center that we need and can successfully fill 2 more areas of need. We can probably target a SG with the MLE such as JR Smith, Belinelli, Pietris, or another strong role player. Our draft pick can be used to draft the BPA, hopefully either a backup big, SG, or PG. Big man Markeiff Morris, SG Klay Thompson, and PG Darius Morris are all players who can fit one of those 3 positions off the bench.

If we can end up with 2 out of 3 of Sammy/Nazr/KThomas/KMart/Jeff Foster (I like Dally but I can see where a Thomas/Nazr combo may be more cost effective)and Faried in the draft, sign CDR-I always liked him, and maybe buy a pick to draft a PG.

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think this is realistic:
Fields, Balkman and Turiaf for Dalembert in a sign and trade. The salaries going out would let us offer Sammy a 4 year $39mm deal. That would look like this:
2011 $8.3mm
2012 $9.2mm
2013 $10.1mm
2014 $11.2mm
total: $38.8mm

Keeps Sac younger, they will want to go that route over paying Dalembert. They get Fields back, we can kick them $3mm to offset Balkman as well.

That would leave us the MLE to use on a more realistic target

So you're telling me we get to retain the MLE and our first round pick? I absolutely love the idea. I don't want to part with Fields but this is the near perfect scenario. We get the solid center that we need and can successfully fill 2 more areas of need. We can probably target a SG with the MLE such as JR Smith, Belinelli, Pietris, or another strong role player. Our draft pick can be used to draft the BPA, hopefully either a backup big, SG, or PG. Big man Markeiff Morris, SG Klay Thompson, and PG Darius Morris are all players who can fit one of those 3 positions off the bench.

pietrus isn't a terrible option. he is what he is -- basically only a spot shooter on offense (not a good ballhandler) and an above average defender with good athleticism. 29 yrs old. like dalembert but for the wing, he'd take the tougher defensive assignment every night.

if he'd sign the MLE for 2-3 yrs, maybe 2 with a team option for a 3rd, i'd like it.

i feel good about our draft position -- as you mentioned, the morris's (either twin from kansas and then the PG from michigan) are good prospects, as is faried. if we can get a valuable bench player i will be ecstatic.

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think this is realistic:
Fields, Balkman and Turiaf for Dalembert in a sign and trade. The salaries going out would let us offer Sammy a 4 year $39mm deal. That would look like this:
2011 $8.3mm
2012 $9.2mm
2013 $10.1mm
2014 $11.2mm
total: $38.8mm

Keeps Sac younger, they will want to go that route over paying Dalembert. They get Fields back, we can kick them $3mm to offset Balkman as well.

That would leave us the MLE to use on a more realistic target

So you're telling me we get to retain the MLE and our first round pick? I absolutely love the idea. I don't want to part with Fields but this is the near perfect scenario. We get the solid center that we need and can successfully fill 2 more areas of need. We can probably target a SG with the MLE such as JR Smith, Belinelli, Pietris, or another strong role player. Our draft pick can be used to draft the BPA, hopefully either a backup big, SG, or PG. Big man Markeiff Morris, SG Klay Thompson, and PG Darius Morris are all players who can fit one of those 3 positions off the bench.

that was my thinking. Sammy isnt a MLE. He's worth more. Thats just NBA economics. I think this is a reasonable offer to Sac who gets something back for him. Knicks get a piece they really need and leave some options open to improve other areas

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think this is realistic:
Fields, Balkman and Turiaf for Dalembert in a sign and trade. The salaries going out would let us offer Sammy a 4 year $39mm deal. That would look like this:
2011 $8.3mm
2012 $9.2mm
2013 $10.1mm
2014 $11.2mm
total: $38.8mm

Keeps Sac younger, they will want to go that route over paying Dalembert. They get Fields back, we can kick them $3mm to offset Balkman as well.

That would leave us the MLE to use on a more realistic target

So you're telling me we get to retain the MLE and our first round pick? I absolutely love the idea. I don't want to part with Fields but this is the near perfect scenario. We get the solid center that we need and can successfully fill 2 more areas of need. We can probably target a SG with the MLE such as JR Smith, Belinelli, Pietris, or another strong role player. Our draft pick can be used to draft the BPA, hopefully either a backup big, SG, or PG. Big man Markeiff Morris, SG Klay Thompson, and PG Darius Morris are all players who can fit one of those 3 positions off the bench.

that was my thinking. Sammy isnt a MLE. He's worth more. Thats just NBA economics. I think this is a reasonable offer to Sac who gets something back for him. Knicks get a piece they really need and leave some options open to improve other areas

I just think that is a bad trade.

I know we need a center badly- but I think Dalembert is really a below average center - and for that money- given where we are talent & window wise - we need better production from those kinds of dollars.

Not disagreeing that he won't get that in the NBA - at least present day system.

Although Fields faded down the stretch and perhaps struggled to mesh with Carmelo - I still think he is an above average SG, and for his money, tremendous value.

When do we stop giving up assets on cheap contracts?

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think this is realistic:
Fields, Balkman and Turiaf for Dalembert in a sign and trade. The salaries going out would let us offer Sammy a 4 year $39mm deal. That would look like this:
2011 $8.3mm
2012 $9.2mm
2013 $10.1mm
2014 $11.2mm
total: $38.8mm

Keeps Sac younger, they will want to go that route over paying Dalembert. They get Fields back, we can kick them $3mm to offset Balkman as well.

That would leave us the MLE to use on a more realistic target

So you're telling me we get to retain the MLE and our first round pick? I absolutely love the idea. I don't want to part with Fields but this is the near perfect scenario. We get the solid center that we need and can successfully fill 2 more areas of need. We can probably target a SG with the MLE such as JR Smith, Belinelli, Pietris, or another strong role player. Our draft pick can be used to draft the BPA, hopefully either a backup big, SG, or PG. Big man Markeiff Morris, SG Klay Thompson, and PG Darius Morris are all players who can fit one of those 3 positions off the bench.

that was my thinking. Sammy isnt a MLE. He's worth more. Thats just NBA economics. I think this is a reasonable offer to Sac who gets something back for him. Knicks get a piece they really need and leave some options open to improve other areas

I just think that is a bad trade.

I know we need a center badly- but I think Dalembert is really a below average center - and for that money- given where we are talent & window wise - we need better production from those kinds of dollars.

Not disagreeing that he won't get that in the NBA - at least present day system.

Although Fields faded down the stretch and perhaps struggled to mesh with Carmelo - I still think he is an above average SG, and for his money, tremendous value.

When do we stop giving up assets on cheap contracts?

you dont pay for production with centers. If you wanted good production let David Lee be your center and you will get 18ppg, 12rebs and 55% shooting. What you pay for is size. Look at Haywood on Dallas. Gortat got the full MLE and he's half the player Dalembert is. Sammy is def a top 10 and he's a legit 7 footer. Look at what he brings for us and thats good bang for the buck. He's a legit 7 footer, excellent rebound and excellent help defender (shotblocker). Is there a better fit next to Amare? What are we giving up? Nothing... unless you think Fields is great. He cant stay with 2s, his release is slow and his first step doesnt get him by anyone. He's smart and plays hard and will improve year to year I'm sure but this is a very replacable piece, and easy w/ the MLE

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think this is realistic:
Fields, Balkman and Turiaf for Dalembert in a sign and trade. The salaries going out would let us offer Sammy a 4 year $39mm deal. That would look like this:
2011 $8.3mm
2012 $9.2mm
2013 $10.1mm
2014 $11.2mm
total: $38.8mm

Keeps Sac younger, they will want to go that route over paying Dalembert. They get Fields back, we can kick them $3mm to offset Balkman as well.

That would leave us the MLE to use on a more realistic target

So you're telling me we get to retain the MLE and our first round pick? I absolutely love the idea. I don't want to part with Fields but this is the near perfect scenario. We get the solid center that we need and can successfully fill 2 more areas of need. We can probably target a SG with the MLE such as JR Smith, Belinelli, Pietris, or another strong role player. Our draft pick can be used to draft the BPA, hopefully either a backup big, SG, or PG. Big man Markeiff Morris, SG Klay Thompson, and PG Darius Morris are all players who can fit one of those 3 positions off the bench.

that was my thinking. Sammy isnt a MLE. He's worth more. Thats just NBA economics. I think this is a reasonable offer to Sac who gets something back for him. Knicks get a piece they really need and leave some options open to improve other areas

I just think that is a bad trade.

I know we need a center badly- but I think Dalembert is really a below average center - and for that money- given where we are talent & window wise - we need better production from those kinds of dollars.

Not disagreeing that he won't get that in the NBA - at least present day system.

Although Fields faded down the stretch and perhaps struggled to mesh with Carmelo - I still think he is an above average SG, and for his money, tremendous value.

When do we stop giving up assets on cheap contracts?

you dont pay for production with centers. If you wanted good production let David Lee be your center and you will get 18ppg, 12rebs and 55% shooting. What you pay for is size. Look at Haywood on Dallas. Gortat got the full MLE and he's half the player Dalembert is. Sammy is def a top 10 and he's a legit 7 footer. Look at what he brings for us and thats good bang for the buck. He's a legit 7 footer, excellent rebound and excellent help defender (shotblocker). Is there a better fit next to Amare? What are we giving up? Nothing... unless you think Fields is great. He cant stay with 2s, his release is slow and his first step doesnt get him by anyone. He's smart and plays hard and will improve year to year I'm sure but this is a very replacable piece, and easy w/ the MLE

who can offer sammy more than the MLE though? sacramento clearly has money troubles and this guy is not a franchise player, i highly doubt they're going to extend him. it will depend on what the salary cap comes in at with the new CBA but getting sammy for the MLE may not be completely out of the realm of possiblity.

i agree though, if you're only giving up fields and turiaf and you preserve the MLE, i'd do the deal.

how about a 2 year MLE for kenyon martin. according to the sabremetrics he's one of the best PF defenders in the league. bringing him off the bench to sub out dalembert still gives amare the benefit of not having to guard the tough big in the post.

BigSm00th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:I think this is realistic:
Fields, Balkman and Turiaf for Dalembert in a sign and trade. The salaries going out would let us offer Sammy a 4 year $39mm deal. That would look like this:
2011 $8.3mm
2012 $9.2mm
2013 $10.1mm
2014 $11.2mm
total: $38.8mm

Keeps Sac younger, they will want to go that route over paying Dalembert. They get Fields back, we can kick them $3mm to offset Balkman as well.

That would leave us the MLE to use on a more realistic target

So you're telling me we get to retain the MLE and our first round pick? I absolutely love the idea. I don't want to part with Fields but this is the near perfect scenario. We get the solid center that we need and can successfully fill 2 more areas of need. We can probably target a SG with the MLE such as JR Smith, Belinelli, Pietris, or another strong role player. Our draft pick can be used to draft the BPA, hopefully either a backup big, SG, or PG. Big man Markeiff Morris, SG Klay Thompson, and PG Darius Morris are all players who can fit one of those 3 positions off the bench.

that was my thinking. Sammy isnt a MLE. He's worth more. Thats just NBA economics. I think this is a reasonable offer to Sac who gets something back for him. Knicks get a piece they really need and leave some options open to improve other areas

I just think that is a bad trade.

I know we need a center badly- but I think Dalembert is really a below average center - and for that money- given where we are talent & window wise - we need better production from those kinds of dollars.

Not disagreeing that he won't get that in the NBA - at least present day system.

Although Fields faded down the stretch and perhaps struggled to mesh with Carmelo - I still think he is an above average SG, and for his money, tremendous value.

When do we stop giving up assets on cheap contracts?

you dont pay for production with centers. If you wanted good production let David Lee be your center and you will get 18ppg, 12rebs and 55% shooting. What you pay for is size. Look at Haywood on Dallas. Gortat got the full MLE and he's half the player Dalembert is. Sammy is def a top 10 and he's a legit 7 footer. Look at what he brings for us and thats good bang for the buck. He's a legit 7 footer, excellent rebound and excellent help defender (shotblocker). Is there a better fit next to Amare? What are we giving up? Nothing... unless you think Fields is great. He cant stay with 2s, his release is slow and his first step doesnt get him by anyone. He's smart and plays hard and will improve year to year I'm sure but this is a very replacable piece, and easy w/ the MLE

who can offer sammy more than the MLE though? sacramento clearly has money troubles and this guy is not a franchise player, i highly doubt they're going to extend him. it will depend on what the salary cap comes in at with the new CBA but getting sammy for the MLE may not be completely out of the realm of possiblity.

i agree though, if you're only giving up fields and turiaf and you preserve the MLE, i'd do the deal.

how about a 2 year MLE for kenyon martin. according to the sabremetrics he's one of the best PF defenders in the league. bringing him off the bench to sub out dalembert still gives amare the benefit of not having to guard the tough big in the post.

clubs who need bigs will offer sign and trades. I'm sure there are a few teams with cap space also, or large trade exceptions. If Sac is willing to deal Dalembert is a nice piece.

Also of note: Maloof said the Kings would try to re-sign guard Marcus Thornton and center Samuel Dalembert. "We have money, we have cap space, we have the most cap space of any team in the NBA," Maloof said. "That's how you win. You need players. And we have money and we're going to spend it."
http://blogs.sacbee.com/city-beat/2011/0...

Hard to trust Maloof. Guy just said the team had no money and needed to move to Anaheim. Then the NBA scolded him and he said he's "willing" to give SAC another shot. what a lying weasel.

fish i think you're right, its gonna take a S&T to get Sammy.