Knicks · Let's be for real. With LeBron, Wade, and Bosh on Miami. How can we ever get to the finals with them standing in our path. (page 2)
I have a better question, what has any teams plan been in the west for the last 13 years???? Because if you weren't the Lakers or the Spurs you've drafted great players and had cap space and home grown yoots........ blah, blah, blah........ but you have been under the boot of Shaq, Kobe and Duncan.
What did the Mavs do, they've had Dirk for 13 years and this will be there second go at the finals. Does everything they've not matter outside of two seasons??? Does every other team who couldn't break threw in those two seasons mean nothing????
Were those Jailblazers and Kings and Suns teams nothing in your eyes because they fell short against those great players???
I think this kind of thinking is asinine, we are going to build the best team we can play for the moment.
Maybe we are up 15 in the 4th quarter of a game 7 and lose in the conference finals.
Maybe we get jobbed by the refs in a close out game at home.
Maybe our point guard gets assaulted by Robert Horry....... who knows.
For the here and now, I am excited to have two players who can be bigger and better than anybody at their position. And just like those fans and franchises, I we be looking forward to having my team be a legitimate title contender built around our studs.
Bonn1997 wrote:Do you have the stats for head to head Lebron-Melo matchups? How small a sample are we talking about here?
two times a year every year of their career. I know Melo is at least 10-4 against Lebron.
9-4 at least. ran out of fingers.
Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=20...
Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...
Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...
Bron wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...
Bron wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...
Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...
Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...
Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...
Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...
Bron wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...
Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...
Bron wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...
Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...
Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...
Melo: 10 wins
Bron: 4 wins
Haters: mystified.
Melo vs. Bron only?
Silly variables like the 8 other players, schedule, superfriends, etc do play.
still mystified.
Nalod wrote:This tennis?Melo vs. Bron only?
Silly variables like the 8 other players, schedule, superfriends, etc do play.
still mystified.
Yeah, and I'm sure if the tables were turned and Lebron was 10-4 against Melo, people wouldn't make a big deal out of it. :rolls eyes:
Nalod wrote:This tennis?Melo vs. Bron only?
Silly variables like the 8 other players, schedule, superfriends, etc do play.
still mystified.
That plus 14 games is a very small sample. With the amount of variability in performance, one full season (82 games) is a small sample.
RoyBatty wrote:I think our goal was to show that in head-to-heads during their professional career (which is the grand total of 14 games), Melo has beaten Lebron by a noticeable margin. Of course, that begs the question -- was Melo surrounded during those games by a superior team? We can't discount that. If somebody were nice enough to figure out the numbers, then maybe that is the case. That's a hornest nest on how to assess that variable. But for the moment, we're assuming roughly same quality teams, which is why we're positing that maybe Melo does have something on James when they play head to head. And we're just doign this in the grand old tradition of Bird vs. Magic.
Papabear Says
Everyone forgot about Bosh and you just can't compare what LeBron did against Melo one on one. LeBron may be a better leader. I believe that in order to beat Miami we need to have a star center and point guard to beat them.
Papabear wrote:RoyBatty wrote:I think our goal was to show that in head-to-heads during their professional career (which is the grand total of 14 games), Melo has beaten Lebron by a noticeable margin. Of course, that begs the question -- was Melo surrounded during those games by a superior team? We can't discount that. If somebody were nice enough to figure out the numbers, then maybe that is the case. That's a hornest nest on how to assess that variable. But for the moment, we're assuming roughly same quality teams, which is why we're positing that maybe Melo does have something on James when they play head to head. And we're just doign this in the grand old tradition of Bird vs. Magic.Papabear Says
Everyone forgot about Bosh and you just can't compare what LeBron did against Melo one on one. LeBron may be a better leader. I believe that in order to beat Miami we need to have a star center and point guard to beat them.
There are no star Centers that we can get and it's not necessary to beat the Heat. What we need is a productive C that can defend and board. It would also be great to have s corp of bigs that can get it done inside. If we can find a PG to back up CB and train for eventually taking over the starting spot that would be a great plus. No one knows if we'll be able to find those players but that's what we need.
crzymdups wrote:My main frame is down at work, so here you go:Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=20...Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...Bron wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...Bron wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...Bron wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...Bron wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...Melo wins.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_yl...
Melo: 10 winsBron: 4 wins
Haters: mystified.
The only mystifying thing is that you're comparing team wins to justify a claim about their individual performance. You said Carmelo outplayed Lebron, not that Carmelo's Nuggets outplayed Lebron's Cavs. (It's also mystifying that you included a game Lebron didn't play in, actually).
Have you looked at the players' actual stats for the matchups? Lebron averaged 3.8 more PPG, almost triple Carmelo's assists, and 2.0 more RPG.
There are two appropriate conclusions from the box-scores you presented (with only the first one being relevant to the Knicks):
1) Lebron badly outplayed Carmelo;
2) Lebron's supporting cast was badly outplayed by Carmelo's. We've seen how bad the Cavs' team is without Lebron; so this should not be surprising.
Bonn1997 wrote:
The only mystifying thing is that you're comparing team wins to justify a claim about their individual performance. You said Carmelo outplayed Lebron, not that Carmelo's Nuggets outplayed Lebron's Cavs. (It's also mystifying that you included a game Lebron didn't play in, actually).Have you looked at the players' actual stats for the matchups? Lebron averaged 3.8 more PPG, almost triple Carmelo's assists, and 2.0 more RPG.
There are two appropriate conclusions from the box-scores you presented (with only the first one being relevant to the Knicks):
1) Lebron badly outplayed Carmelo;
2) Lebron's supporting cast was badly outplayed by Carmelo's. We've seen how bad the Cavs' team is without Lebron; so this should not be surprising.
So, wait, now individual stats are more important than getting the win? LOL. I would love to have seen you reaction if Melo had the better stats but was 4-9 against Lebron. My guess is then you'd be all about the W.
Sorry I got the one game wrong. Still, Melo is an undeniable 9-4 against King Bron. Throw all the stats you want in my face, I only care about the fact that Melo is 1-0 as a Knick against the Bron/Wade/LadyBaBa Heat.
Find all the ways you want to hate on Melo, it's fine.
Melo:
Melo 9 wins, Bron 4 wins
Melo 11 wins, Wade 3 wins
Melo 12 wins, Bosh 3 wins
Melo against Heatles - 32-10
Amar'e:
Amar'e 8 wins, Bron 5 wins
Amar'e 5 wins, Wade 6 wins
Amar'e 8 wins, Bosh 3 wins
Amar'e against Heatles - 21-15
Total Melo/Amar'e vs Heatles - 53 wins, 25 losses
(I should mention - this is only their records in the NBA, it does not count when Melo handed Lebron the only loss of his entire high school career, then the combined record would be 54-25, just for the record.)
crzymdups wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:
The only mystifying thing is that you're comparing team wins to justify a claim about their individual performance. You said Carmelo outplayed Lebron, not that Carmelo's Nuggets outplayed Lebron's Cavs. (It's also mystifying that you included a game Lebron didn't play in, actually).Have you looked at the players' actual stats for the matchups? Lebron averaged 3.8 more PPG, almost triple Carmelo's assists, and 2.0 more RPG.
There are two appropriate conclusions from the box-scores you presented (with only the first one being relevant to the Knicks):
1) Lebron badly outplayed Carmelo;
2) Lebron's supporting cast was badly outplayed by Carmelo's. We've seen how bad the Cavs' team is without Lebron; so this should not be surprising.So, wait, now individual stats are more important than getting the win? LOL. I would love to have seen you reaction if Melo had the better stats but was 4-9 against Lebron. My guess is then you'd be all about the W.
Sorry I got the one game wrong. Still, Melo is an undeniable 9-4 against King Bron. Throw all the stats you want in my face, I only care about the fact that Melo is 1-0 as a Knick against the Bron/Wade/LadyBaBa Heat.
Find all the ways you want to hate on Melo, it's fine.
JR Smith: 9, Lebron 4. Who's better? You're blinded by your love for Carmelo.
I've never been one to emphasize team achievement over individual play when assessing the individual's performance. People following my posts closely have seen that I argued KG was at least as good as if not better than Duncan when both were in their primes.
Bonn1997 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:
The only mystifying thing is that you're comparing team wins to justify a claim about their individual performance. You said Carmelo outplayed Lebron, not that Carmelo's Nuggets outplayed Lebron's Cavs. (It's also mystifying that you included a game Lebron didn't play in, actually).Have you looked at the players' actual stats for the matchups? Lebron averaged 3.8 more PPG, almost triple Carmelo's assists, and 2.0 more RPG.
There are two appropriate conclusions from the box-scores you presented (with only the first one being relevant to the Knicks):
1) Lebron badly outplayed Carmelo;
2) Lebron's supporting cast was badly outplayed by Carmelo's. We've seen how bad the Cavs' team is without Lebron; so this should not be surprising.So, wait, now individual stats are more important than getting the win? LOL. I would love to have seen you reaction if Melo had the better stats but was 4-9 against Lebron. My guess is then you'd be all about the W.
Sorry I got the one game wrong. Still, Melo is an undeniable 9-4 against King Bron. Throw all the stats you want in my face, I only care about the fact that Melo is 1-0 as a Knick against the Bron/Wade/LadyBaBa Heat.
Find all the ways you want to hate on Melo, it's fine.
JR Smith: 9, Lebron 4. Who's better? You're blinded by your love for Carmelo.I've never been one to emphasize team achievement over individual play when assessing the individual's performance. People following my posts closely have seen that I argued KG was at least as good as if not better than Duncan when both were in their primes.
Oh. You were wrong about KG, too, then.
crzymdups wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:
The only mystifying thing is that you're comparing team wins to justify a claim about their individual performance. You said Carmelo outplayed Lebron, not that Carmelo's Nuggets outplayed Lebron's Cavs. (It's also mystifying that you included a game Lebron didn't play in, actually).Have you looked at the players' actual stats for the matchups? Lebron averaged 3.8 more PPG, almost triple Carmelo's assists, and 2.0 more RPG.
There are two appropriate conclusions from the box-scores you presented (with only the first one being relevant to the Knicks):
1) Lebron badly outplayed Carmelo;
2) Lebron's supporting cast was badly outplayed by Carmelo's. We've seen how bad the Cavs' team is without Lebron; so this should not be surprising.So, wait, now individual stats are more important than getting the win? LOL. I would love to have seen you reaction if Melo had the better stats but was 4-9 against Lebron. My guess is then you'd be all about the W.
Sorry I got the one game wrong. Still, Melo is an undeniable 9-4 against King Bron. Throw all the stats you want in my face, I only care about the fact that Melo is 1-0 as a Knick against the Bron/Wade/LadyBaBa Heat.
Find all the ways you want to hate on Melo, it's fine.
JR Smith: 9, Lebron 4. Who's better? You're blinded by your love for Carmelo.I've never been one to emphasize team achievement over individual play when assessing the individual's performance. People following my posts closely have seen that I argued KG was at least as good as if not better than Duncan when both were in their primes.
Oh. You were wrong about KG, too, then.
You're good at making statements but bad at making arguments. I can't believe I'm wasting my time on your comments.
Bonn1997 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:
The only mystifying thing is that you're comparing team wins to justify a claim about their individual performance. You said Carmelo outplayed Lebron, not that Carmelo's Nuggets outplayed Lebron's Cavs. (It's also mystifying that you included a game Lebron didn't play in, actually).Have you looked at the players' actual stats for the matchups? Lebron averaged 3.8 more PPG, almost triple Carmelo's assists, and 2.0 more RPG.
There are two appropriate conclusions from the box-scores you presented (with only the first one being relevant to the Knicks):
1) Lebron badly outplayed Carmelo;
2) Lebron's supporting cast was badly outplayed by Carmelo's. We've seen how bad the Cavs' team is without Lebron; so this should not be surprising.So, wait, now individual stats are more important than getting the win? LOL. I would love to have seen you reaction if Melo had the better stats but was 4-9 against Lebron. My guess is then you'd be all about the W.
Sorry I got the one game wrong. Still, Melo is an undeniable 9-4 against King Bron. Throw all the stats you want in my face, I only care about the fact that Melo is 1-0 as a Knick against the Bron/Wade/LadyBaBa Heat.
Find all the ways you want to hate on Melo, it's fine.
JR Smith: 9, Lebron 4. Who's better? You're blinded by your love for Carmelo.I've never been one to emphasize team achievement over individual play when assessing the individual's performance. People following my posts closely have seen that I argued KG was at least as good as if not better than Duncan when both were in their primes.
Oh. You were wrong about KG, too, then.
You're good at making statements but bad at making arguments.
You probably don't want me to show you KG vs Duncan head to head.
As for arguments - I exposed your argument as a house of cards. You argued that the Knicks are building with the same strategy as the Heat, but with lesser players. If the Knicks players are inferior, why do they have a 53-25 record against the Heat's supposedly superior stars?
To that your only comeback is "what's JR Smith's record against nyah nyah"? PLEASE. I hope I don't have to explain to you the impact Carmelo Anthony has on the game vs JR Smith.
crzymdups wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:
The only mystifying thing is that you're comparing team wins to justify a claim about their individual performance. You said Carmelo outplayed Lebron, not that Carmelo's Nuggets outplayed Lebron's Cavs. (It's also mystifying that you included a game Lebron didn't play in, actually).Have you looked at the players' actual stats for the matchups? Lebron averaged 3.8 more PPG, almost triple Carmelo's assists, and 2.0 more RPG.
There are two appropriate conclusions from the box-scores you presented (with only the first one being relevant to the Knicks):
1) Lebron badly outplayed Carmelo;
2) Lebron's supporting cast was badly outplayed by Carmelo's. We've seen how bad the Cavs' team is without Lebron; so this should not be surprising.So, wait, now individual stats are more important than getting the win? LOL. I would love to have seen you reaction if Melo had the better stats but was 4-9 against Lebron. My guess is then you'd be all about the W.
Sorry I got the one game wrong. Still, Melo is an undeniable 9-4 against King Bron. Throw all the stats you want in my face, I only care about the fact that Melo is 1-0 as a Knick against the Bron/Wade/LadyBaBa Heat.
Find all the ways you want to hate on Melo, it's fine.
JR Smith: 9, Lebron 4. Who's better? You're blinded by your love for Carmelo.I've never been one to emphasize team achievement over individual play when assessing the individual's performance. People following my posts closely have seen that I argued KG was at least as good as if not better than Duncan when both were in their primes.
Oh. You were wrong about KG, too, then.
You're good at making statements but bad at making arguments.
You probably don't want me to show you KG vs Duncan head to head.
As for arguments - I exposed your argument as a house of cards. You argued that the Knicks are building with the same strategy as the Heat, but with lesser players. If the Knicks players are inferior, why do they have a 53-25 record against the Heat's supposedly superior stars?
To that your only comeback is "what's JR Smith's record against nyah nyah"? PLEASE. I hope I don't have to explain to you the impact Carmelo Anthony has on the game vs JR Smith.
Carmelo and JR Smith are 0-0 in head to head match-ups. So they are equal players by your reasoning unless you're abandoning blind interpretations of head-to-head match-ups now.