For all the talk and lamenting, we had our first winning season in 10 years and first trip to playoffs in 7 years.
Walsh improved the franchise enough to put NY in play for the Lebron-a-thon and got Amare as plan B.
Had a young team around him that was over .500 and showing flashes of goodness. A young team has its ups and downs. Trade rumors on a young team does disrupt.
He had enough assets to make a blockbuster trade. We over paid but Walsh had assets from Dlee to trade, a free russian to trade and a desirable point whose value grew playing.
Walsh created value. All Gm's make mistakes. Even the Logo made some blunders in Memphis but long term the team succeeded.
We went from having the most pathetic win to salary ratio in the history of modern sports and shamble of on organiztion on on and off the court to one being respectable.
That is not over rated unless your starphuching yourself into savior lust which is a common Knick fan trait.
SupremeCommander wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:holfresh wrote:NYKBocker wrote:AnubisADL wrote:Donnie Walsh was one of the highest paid GM's to sit on his hands and not make deals in hope of 2010.- He traded Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph who were later traded for 2010 expiring anyway.
- He didn't trade Eddy Curry
- He gave up ALOT to trade Jefferies for Cap Space.
I mean what has the guy really done that any rookie GM couldn't have done?
You do understand that without Walsh the Melo trade doesn't happen right?
Melo did more to make that trade happen than Walsh did....
How does Melo do that without the players that Walsh accumulated?
We were bidding against ourselves. Who knows which of the players we gave up were really needed to complete the trade?
How does that get pinned on Donnie now? I remember everyone saying at the time that, essentially, "Dolan blew it! Donnie was playing a patient poker hand! Eff JD and the Straight Shot!!!"
I didn't blame any specific person. I was responding to Bocker's claim.
Well Walsh definitely takes an L in the whole Jordan Hill debacle, even if
's stubbornness is partly at fault for that.
You also wish he had his ears open to D. Williams and Utah, but I don't blame him so much for that.
Donnie Walsh has been held to the yardstick that is Isiah Thomas his entire term, so to that measure I think he was accurately rated. But there is a sense of him getting a ticker tape parade for simply doing his job ably and without scandal.
Bonn1997 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:holfresh wrote:NYKBocker wrote:AnubisADL wrote:Donnie Walsh was one of the highest paid GM's to sit on his hands and not make deals in hope of 2010.- He traded Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph who were later traded for 2010 expiring anyway.
- He didn't trade Eddy Curry
- He gave up ALOT to trade Jefferies for Cap Space.
I mean what has the guy really done that any rookie GM couldn't have done?
You do understand that without Walsh the Melo trade doesn't happen right?
Melo did more to make that trade happen than Walsh did....
How does Melo do that without the players that Walsh accumulated?
We were bidding against ourselves. Who knows which of the players we gave up were really needed to complete the trade?
How does that get pinned on Donnie now? I remember everyone saying at the time that, essentially, "Dolan blew it! Donnie was playing a patient poker hand! Eff JD and the Straight Shot!!!"
I didn't blame any specific person. I was responding to Bocker's claim.
What was my claim? My point is that Walsh is not overrated. Anubis is saying he is but Anubis was a big supporter of the Melo trade. That trade does not get done if Walsh does not put us in the position to have all these assets. Walsh cleaned up the Isiah mess and put us in a position to get 2 superstars. I did not like the Melo trade but the fact is we were in the position to make that trade.
NYKBocker wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:holfresh wrote:NYKBocker wrote:AnubisADL wrote:Donnie Walsh was one of the highest paid GM's to sit on his hands and not make deals in hope of 2010.- He traded Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph who were later traded for 2010 expiring anyway.
- He didn't trade Eddy Curry
- He gave up ALOT to trade Jefferies for Cap Space.
I mean what has the guy really done that any rookie GM couldn't have done?
You do understand that without Walsh the Melo trade doesn't happen right?
Melo did more to make that trade happen than Walsh did....
How does Melo do that without the players that Walsh accumulated?
We were bidding against ourselves. Who knows which of the players we gave up were really needed to complete the trade?
How does that get pinned on Donnie now? I remember everyone saying at the time that, essentially, "Dolan blew it! Donnie was playing a patient poker hand! Eff JD and the Straight Shot!!!"
I didn't blame any specific person. I was responding to Bocker's claim.
What was my claim? My point is that Walsh is not overrated. Anubis is saying he is but Anubis was a big supporter of the Melo trade. That trade does not get done if Walsh does not put us in the position to have all these assets. Walsh cleaned up the Isiah mess and put us in a position to get 2 superstars. I did not like the Melo trade but the fact is we were in the position to make that trade.
It appeared to be that Walsh deserved credit for landing so many players that you deemed critical to obtaining Carmelo. Given that we were bidding against ourselves, I was questioning the idea that all these players he obtained and used to get Carmelo were needed to get him. (That's putting aside the issue for a moment of whether it was a good trade--an issue I've written on elsewhere.)
Bonn1997 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:NYKBocker wrote:holfresh wrote:NYKBocker wrote:AnubisADL wrote:Donnie Walsh was one of the highest paid GM's to sit on his hands and not make deals in hope of 2010.- He traded Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph who were later traded for 2010 expiring anyway.
- He didn't trade Eddy Curry
- He gave up ALOT to trade Jefferies for Cap Space.
I mean what has the guy really done that any rookie GM couldn't have done?
You do understand that without Walsh the Melo trade doesn't happen right?
Melo did more to make that trade happen than Walsh did....
How does Melo do that without the players that Walsh accumulated?
We were bidding against ourselves. Who knows which of the players we gave up were really needed to complete the trade?
How does that get pinned on Donnie now? I remember everyone saying at the time that, essentially, "Dolan blew it! Donnie was playing a patient poker hand! Eff JD and the Straight Shot!!!"
I didn't blame any specific person. I was responding to Bocker's claim.
What was my claim? My point is that Walsh is not overrated. Anubis is saying he is but Anubis was a big supporter of the Melo trade. That trade does not get done if Walsh does not put us in the position to have all these assets. Walsh cleaned up the Isiah mess and put us in a position to get 2 superstars. I did not like the Melo trade but the fact is we were in the position to make that trade.
It appeared to be that Walsh deserved credit for landing so many players that you deemed critical to obtaining Carmelo. Given that we were bidding against ourselves, I was questioning the idea that all these players he obtained and used to get Carmelo were needed to get him. (That's putting aside the issue for a moment of whether it was a good trade--an issue I've written on elsewhere.)
I don't think the Melo package was Walsh's doing. I think Dolan shot his load too early and I think this is the reason that Donnie is saying goodbye. Dolan reneged on his promise that Donnie has complete control. I have no proof just going by what Dolan has shown in the past and how Donnie conducts business.
The fact is that Donnie collected all these assets to make a quality offer to Denver up to a ridiculous package that we just sent.
Just to clarify, I'm not say Walsh did a bad job. I'm saying he was average. None of his moves were home runs or spectacular.
AnubisADL wrote:Just to clarify, I'm not say Walsh did a bad job. I'm saying he was average. None of his moves were home runs or spectacular.
THIS
and whatever follows to the liking
THAT
Juice wrote:AnubisADL wrote:Just to clarify, I'm not say Walsh did a bad job. I'm saying he was average. None of his moves were home runs or spectacular.
THIS
and whatever follows to the liking
THAT
We were at a point where making it to .500 in 3 years was viewed as outstanding. It says more about how bad the last decade was for the Knicks than anything else.
AnubisADL wrote:Just to clarify, I'm not say Walsh did a bad job. I'm saying he was average. None of his moves were home runs or spectacular.
Your looking for miracles.
who is your top 5 Gm's you consider the benchmark?
I say we give Scott Layden another shot. He's probably available.
Nalod wrote:AnubisADL wrote:Just to clarify, I'm not say Walsh did a bad job. I'm saying he was average. None of his moves were home runs or spectacular.
Your looking for miracles.
who is your top 5 Gm's you consider the benchmark?
D Wade gets my vote for top "GM."
AnubisADL wrote:Donnie Walsh was one of the highest paid GM's to sit on his hands and not make deals in hope of 2010.- He traded Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph who were later traded for 2010 expiring anyway.
- He didn't trade Eddy Curry
- He gave up ALOT to trade Jefferies for Cap Space.
I mean what has the guy really done that any rookie GM couldn't have done?
No one, and I mean no one could have traded Eddy Curry- he was as untradeable as a player can possibly get!
As for Jeffries- we gave up our 2012 pick and Jordan Hill. Jordan Hill is essentially worth nothing- I don't begrudge Walsh trading him, but I do think his biggest mistake was drafting him in the first place- for me that draft was a disaster in that they were so many good players available at the position we needed (PG), but instead we picked a poor PF.
The main problems with the Jeffries trade is that a) we've lost our 2012 pick, in what will be a deep draft, and b)it meant we couldn't use draft picks in the Melo trade, which in turn led to us giving up more players than we otherwise may have had to- we could definitely have kept Mosgov, and maybe we could have kept chandler or gallo (but that's no certain thing). However without the Jeffries trade we couldn't of signed Mosgov and Felton anyways, so the Melo trade wouldn't have got done. So again I won't hold it against Walsh.
Jamal and Zach had to go, we couldn't build around them and their contacts would've stopped us signing anyone of significance.
BasketballJones wrote:Walsh also blew it by rolling into that meeting with LeBron in a wheelchair.
Supposedly Isiah recommended that Walsh go to the meeting on this model Segway, but Donnie declined.
Bonn1997 wrote:Juice wrote:AnubisADL wrote:Just to clarify, I'm not say Walsh did a bad job. I'm saying he was average. None of his moves were home runs or spectacular.
THIS
and whatever follows to the liking
THAT
We were at a point where making it to .500 in 3 years was viewed as outstanding. It says more about how bad the last decade was for the Knicks than anything else.
A babbling Monkey carrying an elephant on his back in the Madagascar jungle could have been the exec for the past 3yrs..... results probably end up the same. Some fans are acting as if Walsh was the greatest prophet sent to the Jews. The removal of Isiah was the first sign of this Franchise getting respect Walsh just happened to be the one to sit on that throne first. Very ordinary and average gm in terms of execution but a very good persona how he handled tough situations although he presented some results of double standards and hypocrisy. Also maybe the best BULLET man ever.
Paladin55 wrote:BasketballJones wrote:Walsh also blew it by rolling into that meeting with LeBron in a wheelchair.
Supposedly Isiah recommended that Walsh go to the meeting on this model Segway, but Donnie declined.
That's cool! LeBron would now be a Knick.
Nalod wrote:AnubisADL wrote:Just to clarify, I'm not say Walsh did a bad job. I'm saying he was average. None of his moves were home runs or spectacular.
Your looking for miracles.
who is your top 5 Gm's you consider the benchmark?
Most GM's are average overall. Some are better than others.
Walsh didnt excel in any particular area so that is why he is average. He isnt a great drafter. He doesnt make great trades. I mean really. Anyone could have given Amare a max deal.
smackeddog wrote:
No one, and I mean no one could have traded Eddy Curry- he was as untradeable as a player can possibly get!As for Jeffries- we gave up our 2012 pick and Jordan Hill. Jordan Hill is essentially worth nothing- I don't begrudge Walsh trading him, but I do think his biggest mistake was drafting him in the first place- for me that draft was a disaster in that they were so many good players available at the position we needed (PG), but instead we picked a poor PF.
The main problems with the Jeffries trade is that a) we've lost our 2012 pick, in what will be a deep draft, and b)it meant we couldn't use draft picks in the Melo trade, which in turn led to us giving up more players than we otherwise may have had to- we could definitely have kept Mosgov, and maybe we could have kept chandler or gallo (but that's no certain thing). However without the Jeffries trade we couldn't of signed Mosgov and Felton anyways, so the Melo trade wouldn't have got done. So again I won't hold it against Walsh.
Jamal and Zach had to go, we couldn't build around them and their contacts would've stopped us signing anyone of significance.
- People said no one would take Zach Randolph. Baron Davis was supposedly untradeable as well. ANYONE is tradeable for the right price.
- We gave up our 2012 pick which effected the Melo trade since we couldnt include picks.
- Im not disagreeing with trading Zach Randolph or Jamal Crawford. Im saying it was that difficult to trade them since they were traded summer 2009 anyway.
AnubisADL wrote:Nalod wrote:AnubisADL wrote:Just to clarify, I'm not say Walsh did a bad job. I'm saying he was average. None of his moves were home runs or spectacular.
Your looking for miracles.
who is your top 5 Gm's you consider the benchmark?
Most GM's are average overall. Some are better than others.
Walsh didnt excel in any particular area so that is why he is average. He isnt a great drafter. He doesnt make great trades. I mean really. Anyone could have given Amare a max deal.
This is true.
GM's for Spurs, Lakes and even fool Ainge have done a good job.
Phuch Riles but the man got it done.
Little Donnie Nelson in Dallas had kept them competitive for a long time now. Two trips to finals with only Jet and Dirk as carry overs pretty good.
I'd say RC Buford (SA) and Kupchek (Lakes) Have been the best.
AnubisADL wrote:Nalod wrote:AnubisADL wrote:Just to clarify, I'm not say Walsh did a bad job. I'm saying he was average. None of his moves were home runs or spectacular.
Your looking for miracles.
who is your top 5 Gm's you consider the benchmark?
Most GM's are average overall. Some are better than others.
Walsh didnt excel in any particular area so that is why he is average. He isnt a great drafter. He doesnt make great trades. I mean really. Anyone could have given Amare a max deal.
Yes....but Amare had his choice of where he wanted to go, and that was to the team that Walsh was in charge of. Do you really think Amare would have signed here if Isiah was in charge. Actually we never would have had the cap space to sign Amare if Isiah was in charge.
And my personal opinion, we lost LeBron when he and CAA found out that Dolan was still in charge and he sent Isiah.Also, IMO, it was Dolan who got involved and paid an outrageous amount in the Jeffrey's trade to Houston, just like he did in the Melo trade.
AnubisADL wrote:smackeddog wrote:
No one, and I mean no one could have traded Eddy Curry- he was as untradeable as a player can possibly get!As for Jeffries- we gave up our 2012 pick and Jordan Hill. Jordan Hill is essentially worth nothing- I don't begrudge Walsh trading him, but I do think his biggest mistake was drafting him in the first place- for me that draft was a disaster in that they were so many good players available at the position we needed (PG), but instead we picked a poor PF.
The main problems with the Jeffries trade is that a) we've lost our 2012 pick, in what will be a deep draft, and b)it meant we couldn't use draft picks in the Melo trade, which in turn led to us giving up more players than we otherwise may have had to- we could definitely have kept Mosgov, and maybe we could have kept chandler or gallo (but that's no certain thing). However without the Jeffries trade we couldn't of signed Mosgov and Felton anyways, so the Melo trade wouldn't have got done. So again I won't hold it against Walsh.
Jamal and Zach had to go, we couldn't build around them and their contacts would've stopped us signing anyone of significance.
- People said no one would take Zach Randolph. Baron Davis was supposedly untradeable as well. ANYONE is tradeable for the right price.
- We gave up our 2012 pick which effected the Melo trade since we couldnt include picks.
- Im not disagreeing with trading Zach Randolph or Jamal Crawford. Im saying it was that difficult to trade them since they were traded summer 2009 anyway.
Add Rashard Lewis, Gilbert Arenas, Hedo Turkeyglue, to the "they are untradeable" list
