Knicks · Donnie Walsh was overrated. (page 4)
holfresh wrote:NYKBocker wrote:AnubisADL wrote:Donnie Walsh was one of the highest paid GM's to sit on his hands and not make deals in hope of 2010.- He traded Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph who were later traded for 2010 expiring anyway.
- He didn't trade Eddy Curry
- He gave up ALOT to trade Jefferies for Cap Space.I mean what has the guy really done that any rookie GM couldn't have done?
You do understand that without Walsh the Melo trade doesn't happen right?
Melo did more to make that trade happen than Walsh did....
melo did more to make sure walsh overpaid....
Childs2Dudley wrote:You're an Isiah Thomas fan. Nothing more needs to be said.
+1 (times 10 to the 5 billionth)
martin wrote:Anji wrote:This thread kinda reminds me of a work situation of a friend.Basically he was in a work place were his previous boss was stealing, so when the new manager came in anything short of of that was an improvement. So no matter how bad the home is managed currently is never as bad when top guy was stealing money.
My only problem with Walsh was in his approach....... going with poker face in the Melo trade talks, dragging out that deal to a midnite deadline when you were willing to trade the player you got with the 8th pick, a 2012 pick and a swap 2011 just to move Jeffries 7 million 1 1/2 deal????
Geezus!!!!!!!! That is the definition of inconsistence.
Right. Donnie set the timeline on the Melo deal; Denver had no say in it.
I never said that Walsh set the timeline. What I am saying is I didn't like how he could be aggressive in some cases where I thought the wait and see approach was likely best in hind site, but very much let the Melo talks get to that point.
Whether it was all his fault or little, I really don't know. My feeling though is he didn't have to let it go that far.
Anji wrote:martin wrote:Anji wrote:This thread kinda reminds me of a work situation of a friend.Basically he was in a work place were his previous boss was stealing, so when the new manager came in anything short of of that was an improvement. So no matter how bad the home is managed currently is never as bad when top guy was stealing money.
My only problem with Walsh was in his approach....... going with poker face in the Melo trade talks, dragging out that deal to a midnite deadline when you were willing to trade the player you got with the 8th pick, a 2012 pick and a swap 2011 just to move Jeffries 7 million 1 1/2 deal????
Geezus!!!!!!!! That is the definition of inconsistence.
Right. Donnie set the timeline on the Melo deal; Denver had no say in it.
I never said that Walsh set the timeline. What I am saying is I didn't like how he could be aggressive in some cases where I thought the wait and see approach was likely best in hind site, but very much let the Melo talks get to that point.
Whether it was all his fault or little, I really don't know. My feeling though is he didn't have to let it go that far.
with regards to JJ, Walsh had to be aggressive if he wanted to be in play for FAs in the summer, no 2 ways around it. It's not like he could wait and see.
You are trying to equate to different scenarios with one tempo.
martin wrote:Anji wrote:martin wrote:Anji wrote:This thread kinda reminds me of a work situation of a friend.Basically he was in a work place were his previous boss was stealing, so when the new manager came in anything short of of that was an improvement. So no matter how bad the home is managed currently is never as bad when top guy was stealing money.
My only problem with Walsh was in his approach....... going with poker face in the Melo trade talks, dragging out that deal to a midnite deadline when you were willing to trade the player you got with the 8th pick, a 2012 pick and a swap 2011 just to move Jeffries 7 million 1 1/2 deal????
Geezus!!!!!!!! That is the definition of inconsistence.
Right. Donnie set the timeline on the Melo deal; Denver had no say in it.
I never said that Walsh set the timeline. What I am saying is I didn't like how he could be aggressive in some cases where I thought the wait and see approach was likely best in hind site, but very much let the Melo talks get to that point.
Whether it was all his fault or little, I really don't know. My feeling though is he didn't have to let it go that far.
with regards to JJ, Walsh had to be aggressive if he wanted to be in play for FAs in the summer, no 2 ways around it. It's not like he could wait and see.
You are trying to equate to different scenarios with one tempo.
Fine trade Effries and the 2009 8th pick during the draft for lower pick(s). Effries was an expiring contract. If Mo Pete can be traded on draft day so can Effries
The Bulls traded Kirk Hinrich and #17 to Washington essentially to free up cap space for 2010. Don't get me wrong Kirk is a better player than Effries but he had more salary on the books and pick 17 is not more valuable than pick 8.
That's what Donnie should have done if he was willing to push those kinds of chips to the table....might as well wait and be slow hand until the draft when you have more willing buyers.
Juice wrote:Another example...The Bulls traded Kirk Hinrich and #17 to Washington essentially to free up cap space for 2010. Don't get me wrong Kirk is a better player than Effries but he had more salary on the books and pick 17 is not more valuable than pick 8.
That's what Donnie should have done if he was willing to push those kinds of chips to the table....might as well wait and be slow hand until the draft when you have more willing buyers.
You dont get it.
All Walsh's bad deals are Dolan's fault. Dolan forced the Jefferies trade. Dolan forced Walsh to draft Jordan Hill. Dolan forced Walsh to overpay on Melo. ETC.
AnubisADL wrote:Juice wrote:Another example...The Bulls traded Kirk Hinrich and #17 to Washington essentially to free up cap space for 2010. Don't get me wrong Kirk is a better player than Effries but he had more salary on the books and pick 17 is not more valuable than pick 8.
That's what Donnie should have done if he was willing to push those kinds of chips to the table....might as well wait and be slow hand until the draft when you have more willing buyers.
You dont get it.
All Walsh's bad deals are Dolan's fault. Dolan forced the Jefferies trade. Dolan forced Walsh to draft Jordan Hill. Dolan forced Walsh to overpay on Melo. ETC.
I could have listed another example but I figure 2 should be enough for reality to sink in.
Slight correction of approach to the example mentioned
Obviously he could have traded Effries and pick 8 in the 2009 draft but not that this would show more slow handedness versus trading Effries and the 2011 1rst lottery protected or 2012 Top 5 protected during the 2010 draft. Bottomline the philosophy is to trade Effries and pick or even recently picked player(Hill) during the 2009 or 2010 draft.
Juice wrote:Another example...The Bulls traded Kirk Hinrich and #17 to Washington essentially to free up cap space for 2010. Don't get me wrong Kirk is a better player than Effries but he had more salary on the books and pick 17 is not more valuable than pick 8.
That's what Donnie should have done if he was willing to push those kinds of chips to the table....might as well wait and be slow hand until the draft when you have more willing buyers.
So Donnie Walsh should have traded a mid-1st round pick he didn't have to get under the cap. You are a brilliant man.
Childs2Dudley wrote:Juice wrote:Another example...The Bulls traded Kirk Hinrich and #17 to Washington essentially to free up cap space for 2010. Don't get me wrong Kirk is a better player than Effries but he had more salary on the books and pick 17 is not more valuable than pick 8.
That's what Donnie should have done if he was willing to push those kinds of chips to the table....might as well wait and be slow hand until the draft when you have more willing buyers.
So Donnie Walsh should have traded a mid-1st round pick he didn't have to get under the cap. You are a brilliant man.
Donnie's number one priority since day one, was to get the Knicks way under the Cap so we can sign two superstars; Jeffries’ contract was impeding this from happening, so he traded the guy as soon as he found a team willing to take him. At the end of the day, he accomplished his goal and we got the two superstars, plus who knows if on draft day there was going to be a team willing to trade with us, may be NOT.
Childs2Dudley wrote:Juice wrote:Another example...The Bulls traded Kirk Hinrich and #17 to Washington essentially to free up cap space for 2010. Don't get me wrong Kirk is a better player than Effries but he had more salary on the books and pick 17 is not more valuable than pick 8.
That's what Donnie should have done if he was willing to push those kinds of chips to the table....might as well wait and be slow hand until the draft when you have more willing buyers.
So Donnie Walsh should have traded a mid-1st round pick he didn't have to get under the cap. You are a brilliant man.
Did we not have possession of these picks prior to the 2009 and 2010 draft?
2009 pick 8
2011 1rst
2012 1rst
Are you slow at comprehension or what? If I were you I'd refrain from replying seriously
Juice wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:Juice wrote:Another example...The Bulls traded Kirk Hinrich and #17 to Washington essentially to free up cap space for 2010. Don't get me wrong Kirk is a better player than Effries but he had more salary on the books and pick 17 is not more valuable than pick 8.
That's what Donnie should have done if he was willing to push those kinds of chips to the table....might as well wait and be slow hand until the draft when you have more willing buyers.
So Donnie Walsh should have traded a mid-1st round pick he didn't have to get under the cap. You are a brilliant man.
Did we not have possessions of these picks prior to the 2009 and 2010 draft?
2009 pick 8
2011 1rst
2012 1rstAre you slow at comprehension or what? If I were you I'd refrain from replying seriously
You talk about comprehension and you can't even type properly on the internet.
The 2009 draft was an error, but hardly a big one. Jordan Hill over Brandon Jennings. I wont lose sleep over that, sorry. Both of these guys are nothing to fawn over.
Walsh paid a bit too excessively to get rid of an inferior player but it had to be done. Kirk Hinrich is not Jared Jeffries. Kirk Hinrich actually had value around the league, Jared Jeffries did not. Kirk Hinrich was a starter/6th man for the Wizards and Hawks these last 2 years. Jared Jeffries was riding the bench in Houston before D'Antoni brought him back to be the savior. There is no comparison in these deals.
Walsh did what he had to do, at a steep price, to get under the cap. He did it and I thank him for that. I was a supporter of it then and I'm a supporter of it now. The swap didn't end up hurting us and hopefully we wont care about the pick in 2012. The trade was made for one purpose and it fulfilled that purpose.
Childs2Dudley wrote:Juice wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:Juice wrote:Another example...The Bulls traded Kirk Hinrich and #17 to Washington essentially to free up cap space for 2010. Don't get me wrong Kirk is a better player than Effries but he had more salary on the books and pick 17 is not more valuable than pick 8.
That's what Donnie should have done if he was willing to push those kinds of chips to the table....might as well wait and be slow hand until the draft when you have more willing buyers.
So Donnie Walsh should have traded a mid-1st round pick he didn't have to get under the cap. You are a brilliant man.
Did we not have possessions of these picks prior to the 2009 and 2010 draft?
2009 pick 8
2011 1rst
2012 1rstAre you slow at comprehension or what? If I were you I'd refrain from replying seriously
You talk about comprehension and you can't even type properly on the internet.
The 2009 draft was an error, but hardly a big one. Jordan Hill over Brandon Jennings. I wont lose sleep over that, sorry. Both of these guys are nothing to fawn over.
Walsh paid a bit too excessively to get rid of an inferior player but it had to be done. Kirk Hinrich is not Jared Jeffries. Kirk Hinrich actually had value around the league, Jared Jeffries did not. Kirk Hinrich was a starter/6th man for the Wizards and Hawks these last 2 years. Jared Jeffries was riding the bench in Houston before D'Antoni brought him back to be the savior. There is no comparison in these deals.
Walsh did what he had to do, at a steep price, to get under the cap. He did it and I thank him for that. I was a supporter of it then and I'm a supporter of it now. The swap didn't end up hurting us and hopefully we wont care about the pick in 2012. The trade was made for one purpose and it fulfilled that purpose.
Kirk Hinrich $17mil plus pick 17
vs
Mo Pete $6.5mil pick 11
vs
Ared Effies $12mil plus pick 8
I'll let you convince yourself that there is absolutely no comparison between the proposed value here
Juice wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:Juice wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:Juice wrote:Another example...The Bulls traded Kirk Hinrich and #17 to Washington essentially to free up cap space for 2010. Don't get me wrong Kirk is a better player than Effries but he had more salary on the books and pick 17 is not more valuable than pick 8.
That's what Donnie should have done if he was willing to push those kinds of chips to the table....might as well wait and be slow hand until the draft when you have more willing buyers.
So Donnie Walsh should have traded a mid-1st round pick he didn't have to get under the cap. You are a brilliant man.
Did we not have possessions of these picks prior to the 2009 and 2010 draft?
2009 pick 8
2011 1rst
2012 1rstAre you slow at comprehension or what? If I were you I'd refrain from replying seriously
You talk about comprehension and you can't even type properly on the internet.
The 2009 draft was an error, but hardly a big one. Jordan Hill over Brandon Jennings. I wont lose sleep over that, sorry. Both of these guys are nothing to fawn over.
Walsh paid a bit too excessively to get rid of an inferior player but it had to be done. Kirk Hinrich is not Jared Jeffries. Kirk Hinrich actually had value around the league, Jared Jeffries did not. Kirk Hinrich was a starter/6th man for the Wizards and Hawks these last 2 years. Jared Jeffries was riding the bench in Houston before D'Antoni brought him back to be the savior. There is no comparison in these deals.
Walsh did what he had to do, at a steep price, to get under the cap. He did it and I thank him for that. I was a supporter of it then and I'm a supporter of it now. The swap didn't end up hurting us and hopefully we wont care about the pick in 2012. The trade was made for one purpose and it fulfilled that purpose.
Kirk Hinrich $17mil plus pick 17
vs
Ared Effies $12mil plus pick 8
I'll let you convince yourself that there is absolutely no comparison between the proposed value here
Good job not reading anything I wrote.
You fail yet again.
Juice wrote:Kirk Hinrich $17mil plus pick 17vs
Mo Pete $6.5mil pick 11
vs
Ared Effies $12mil plus pick 8
I'll let you convince yourself that there is absolutely no comparison between the proposed value here
Cmon three very different teams, three very different scenarios. New York was at the time still the laughing stock of the NBA, Big market team demands on a roster ruined by 4 years of incompetent management. Little assets to offer and a hoard of bad contracts no one in the league was stupid enough to take on from a team desperate to get out of the gutter without milking it for all they can get. Do you honestly believe that demand has no influence on pricing?
itchetrigr wrote:Juice wrote:Kirk Hinrich $17mil plus pick 17vs
Mo Pete $6.5mil pick 11
vs
Ared Effies $12mil plus pick 8
I'll let you convince yourself that there is absolutely no comparison between the proposed value here
Cmon three very different teams, three very different scenarios. New York was at the time still the laughing stock of the NBA, Big market team demands on a roster ruined by 4 years of incompetent management. Little assets to offer and a hoard of bad contracts no one in the league was stupid enough to take on from a team desperate to get out of the gutter without milking it for all they can get. Do you honestly believe that demand has no influence on pricing?
We're talking about 1 bad contract and a lottery valued pick sorry you're not going to try and sweet talk yourself out of this very real probability.
So you're saying the league(teams) was(were) interested in helping the Bulls get under the cap even further
For the record dumping $12mil in salary for a say Top 10 lottery pick is a steep price in of itself
itchetrigr wrote:Juice wrote:Kirk Hinrich $17mil plus pick 17vs
Mo Pete $6.5mil pick 11
vs
Ared Effies $12mil plus pick 8
I'll let you convince yourself that there is absolutely no comparison between the proposed value here
Cmon three very different teams, three very different scenarios. New York was at the time still the laughing stock of the NBA, Big market team demands on a roster ruined by 4 years of incompetent management. Little assets to offer and a hoard of bad contracts no one in the league was stupid enough to take on from a team desperate to get out of the gutter without milking it for all they can get. Do you honestly believe that demand has no influence on pricing?
You're using a bad argument. The reason we had to give a little more was because our player was awful and Hinrich is not. Hinrich could actually help an NBA team, even start for them - and he did.
Don't try and argue facts with TrueBlue. All that "Juice" has gone to his head.
Walsh changed it to a respectable organization, started the History Night thing where they connect to and honor past players, and most importantly made people take notice of the Knicks from the product they put on the floor. They were all over ESPN this year for positive reasons. They had a winning record. They were respectable. Finally.
For Dolan, or anyone else, not to recognize that is plain silly. Quibbling about a transaction here or there, but ignoring the enormous work he did rehabilitating the entire image of the team, is missing the point.
crzymdups wrote:The most important thing Donnie Walsh did was change the culture and perception of the New York Knicks. This was an organization that had no class, got into countless embarassing lawsuits at every level, didn't honor their past players in any way, and was the laughing stock of the league.Walsh changed it to a respectable organization, started the History Night thing where they connect to and honor past players, and most importantly made people take notice of the Knicks from the product they put on the floor. They were all over ESPN this year for positive reasons. They had a winning record. They were respectable. Finally.
For Dolan, or anyone else, not to recognize that is plain silly. Quibbling about a transaction here or there, but ignoring the enormous work he did rehabilitating the entire image of the team, is missing the point.
So what happened his first 2 years here? Revisionist history at it's finest.
tkf wrote:holfresh wrote:NYKBocker wrote:AnubisADL wrote:Donnie Walsh was one of the highest paid GM's to sit on his hands and not make deals in hope of 2010.- He traded Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph who were later traded for 2010 expiring anyway.
- He didn't trade Eddy Curry
- He gave up ALOT to trade Jefferies for Cap Space.I mean what has the guy really done that any rookie GM couldn't have done?
You do understand that without Walsh the Melo trade doesn't happen right?
Melo did more to make that trade happen than Walsh did....
melo did more to make sure walsh overpaid....
Without Melo speaking up, who knew if Walsh would be seeking out a guy like Melo...He completely missed the boat on DWill being available...