Knicks · Dallas v Miami - Superstars Win. (page 1)

This series and this years playoff as a whole are showing that you need top players to score points in playoff games and that ROLE PLAYERS can be stopped by playoff caliber Defenses. The games are very defensive minded so you need Stars with great offensive skills to win. Role players are just that. They cannot score big points. Miami has 2 guys that can score at will. Dallas has 1. Terry is not in that class and neither is Bosh. NY has 2 right now. Fields fell on his face because he is a role player. What did Gallo, Felton or Chandler do in the playoffs? Nothing, right.

Dallas had a great year due to the bench. The bench is a no-show now and it will cost them the title, again. Dirk will lose because he has no one else to score with him. Terry is not good enough. Wade and LJ are too good. That being said, Melo and Stat, IMO, will do well vs Miami. What NY needs to find are two perimeter defenders to slow down, Wade and LJ, in that order.

Also, I am not convinced that MDA cannot win with his style. What he needs is defensive minded STAR players. Melo and Stat are not in that class yet. I hope they are watching and buy into the idea. Otherwise they will get close but if they do not buy into the D end, they will fall short. Players who are complete (play O and D) and COMPETE, win titles.

We don't have superstars. We have all-stars. They're at points in their careers where improvement is highly uncommon too.

3 stars = tv ratings....will will get our 3rd star...book it now...the media dept has already decided it :)

Dallas only lost by two points. That said Miami probably wins.

We have two all stars who I feel play very well against Miami. We are one more all star away (Paul) from taking them out. A good draft this year really helps us out as we are going to be near capped soon.

My goodness. The Fire Nation is only up 2-1. They won the last game by 2 points. This ain't over.

I think if you looked at the situation of each NBA team from the perspective of a truly objective outsider and ranked how likely each team is to beat the Heat (or Mavs for that matter) in a seven game series in the next few years, we would rank somewhere between 10 and 20.

The Knicks need three things. The kid they draft to be a monster inside, an additional pick to take on a project and jerome jordan to be good player. Would be nice to bring in a shane battier as well for veteran leadership, defense and three point shooting.

If Melo could have waited we would have been able to make a serious run next year and been the second best team in the east.

D Will over Chris Paul is the way to go

Bonn1997 wrote:We don't have superstars. We have all-stars. They're at points in their careers where improvement is highly uncommon too.

I actually think we did see improvements from STAT and Melo. STAT took on a leadership role for the 1st time in his career and did make attempts to improve his overall game. Melo got better here in efficiency and stepped up his effort on D to an impressive level for him. We just need to add a PG and C to the mix and I think this team can easily compete on the top tier with the Heat and Bulls. STAT and Melo aren't as good as Lebron and Wade, but they're not that far off that we can't compete. It's gonna be about how the rest of the parts fit and support what STAT and Melo do. Gotta get some backup for STAT. Someone that can take the pounding inside and be the garbage man. Gotta find a PG that can create havoc and draw attention away from STAT and Melo and then set them up for easy scores. You want the PG to also be a threat to score and get into the teeth of the defense, but not be a complete ball hog that doesn't look for his teammates. If they can do that this will be a very strong team.

Bonn1997 wrote:We don't have superstars. We have all-stars. They're at points in their careers where improvement is highly uncommon too.

Melo is a top 10 player and Amare is a top 15 player...To me, Melo is a superstar and Amare is a borderline superstar...Melo creates on his own as well as any player in this league if not better, that's super stardom...Chris Bosh is an all star, Carlos Boozer is an all star, Joe Johnson is an all star, Gerald Wallace is an all star,...I think you can see the difference...

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:We don't have superstars. We have all-stars. They're at points in their careers where improvement is highly uncommon too.

I actually think we did see improvements from STAT and Melo. STAT took on a leadership role for the 1st time in his career and did make attempts to improve his overall game. Melo got better here in efficiency and stepped up his effort on D to an impressive level for him. We just need to add a PG and C to the mix and I think this team can easily compete on the top tier with the Heat and Bulls. STAT and Melo aren't as good as Lebron and Wade, but they're not that far off that we can't compete. It's gonna be about how the rest of the parts fit and support what STAT and Melo do. Gotta get some backup for STAT. Someone that can take the pounding inside and be the garbage man. Gotta find a PG that can create havoc and draw attention away from STAT and Melo and then set them up for easy scores. You want the PG to also be a threat to score and get into the teeth of the defense, but not be a complete ball hog that doesn't look for his teammates. If they can do that this will be a very strong team.

Amare was very impressive in his leadership of the young, pretrade team. However, watching the playoffs the defense the best teams play is so much better then anything I anticipate the Knicks being able to play anytime soon. The Knicks need a lot and they don't have a lot of resources. I don't see how the current roster despite the presence of Amare and Melo can compete against the better playoff teams in the east without a dramatic change in philosophy and an addition of some big men to rebound and play defense.

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:We don't have superstars. We have all-stars. They're at points in their careers where improvement is highly uncommon too.

Melo is a top 10 player and Amare is a top 15 player...To me, Melo is a superstar and Amare is a borderline superstar...Melo creates on his own as well as any player in this league if not beter, that's super stardom...

so for instance, Tuncan, Shaq and Howard not superstars cause they can't create their own shots?

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:We don't have superstars. We have all-stars. They're at points in their careers where improvement is highly uncommon too.

Melo is a top 10 player and Amare is a top 15 player...To me, Melo is a superstar and Amare is a borderline superstar...Melo creates on his own as well as any player in this league if not beter, that's super stardom...

so for instance, Tuncan, Shaq and Howard not superstars cause they can't create their own shots?

Where did I ever say that??????

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:We don't have superstars. We have all-stars. They're at points in their careers where improvement is highly uncommon too.

Melo is a top 10 player and Amare is a top 15 player...To me, Melo is a superstar and Amare is a borderline superstar...Melo creates on his own as well as any player in this league if not beter, that's super stardom...

so for instance, Tuncan, Shaq and Howard not superstars cause they can't create their own shots?

Where did I ever say that??????

Martin, was probably just reading between the lines and doing his usual speculating. I agree with you though Melo was well worth getting. Knicks might have given a lot up, but the foundation needed to be strengthened first only then can the Knicks move forward in a more decisive direction.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:We don't have superstars. We have all-stars. They're at points in their careers where improvement is highly uncommon too.

I actually think we did see improvements from STAT and Melo. STAT took on a leadership role for the 1st time in his career and did make attempts to improve his overall game. Melo got better here in efficiency and stepped up his effort on D to an impressive level for him. We just need to add a PG and C to the mix and I think this team can easily compete on the top tier with the Heat and Bulls. STAT and Melo aren't as good as Lebron and Wade, but they're not that far off that we can't compete. It's gonna be about how the rest of the parts fit and support what STAT and Melo do. Gotta get some backup for STAT. Someone that can take the pounding inside and be the garbage man. Gotta find a PG that can create havoc and draw attention away from STAT and Melo and then set them up for easy scores. You want the PG to also be a threat to score and get into the teeth of the defense, but not be a complete ball hog that doesn't look for his teammates. If they can do that this will be a very strong team.

Amare was very impressive in his leadership of the young, pretrade team. However, watching the playoffs the defense the best teams play is so much better then anything I anticipate the Knicks being able to play anytime soon. The Knicks need a lot and they don't have a lot of resources. I don't see how the current roster despite the presence of Amare and Melo can compete against the better playoff teams in the east without a dramatic change in philosophy and an addition of some big men to rebound and play defense.

The part about adding bigs that can help this team defend and rebound is exactly what i've been saying. What I will say tho is that the Knicks have an edge over the Mavs against a great defensive team cuz we have 2 top tier players in STAT and Melo. When Dirk is out it's a noticeable drop off. As we build this team and improve the rest of the roster, the fact that we have 2 stars will start to have more meaning. WE MUST find bigs that can actually hold down the middle and fight for boards. It's critical. This team is gonna be fine offensively. I don't even really have many concerns on that end anymore. I'm sure that the team will find help at PG and hopefully SG. It's the Bigs that concern me. Obviously cuz there are so few available.

I don't think that a dramatic change in philosophy has to be made. The biggest issue is to add players that do what needs to be done. No one has to tell D. Howard to rebound. He just does. You want to add players that do what you need naturally and with passion. You don't want to have to try and make someone be what they're not. If you need a shooter you add a shooter. If you need a rebounder you add a freakin rebounder.

If you think back to the Boston series, they were able to double Melo since nobody else could score. Jeffries looked pathetic out there. Another shooter and we would have won that series. A healthy STAT would have made a difference in keeping defenses honest.

Another quality backup shooter...a true six man, would impact how defenders guard our stars.

That said we need some quality defenders to get close to competing for a championship.

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:We don't have superstars. We have all-stars. They're at points in their careers where improvement is highly uncommon too.

Melo is a top 10 player and Amare is a top 15 player...To me, Melo is a superstar and Amare is a borderline superstar...Melo creates on his own as well as any player in this league if not beter, that's super stardom...

so for instance, Tuncan, Shaq and Howard not superstars cause they can't create their own shots?

They post up/play with their back to the basket so IMO they can create their own shot. Dump the ball in Duncan/Shaq/Howard and watch them go to work.

IMO Amare is a superstar.

Silverfuel wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:We don't have superstars. We have all-stars. They're at points in their careers where improvement is highly uncommon too.

Melo is a top 10 player and Amare is a top 15 player...To me, Melo is a superstar and Amare is a borderline superstar...Melo creates on his own as well as any player in this league if not beter, that's super stardom...

so for instance, Tuncan, Shaq and Howard not superstars cause they can't create their own shots?

They post up/play with their back to the basket so IMO they can create their own shot. Dump the ball in Duncan/Shaq/Howard and watch them go to work.

IMO Amare is a superstar.

Right. For me it's about results: winning and making your team better, that's what defines a superstar.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:We don't have superstars. We have all-stars. They're at points in their careers where improvement is highly uncommon too.

I actually think we did see improvements from STAT and Melo. STAT took on a leadership role for the 1st time in his career and did make attempts to improve his overall game. Melo got better here in efficiency and stepped up his effort on D to an impressive level for him. We just need to add a PG and C to the mix and I think this team can easily compete on the top tier with the Heat and Bulls. STAT and Melo aren't as good as Lebron and Wade, but they're not that far off that we can't compete. It's gonna be about how the rest of the parts fit and support what STAT and Melo do. Gotta get some backup for STAT. Someone that can take the pounding inside and be the garbage man. Gotta find a PG that can create havoc and draw attention away from STAT and Melo and then set them up for easy scores. You want the PG to also be a threat to score and get into the teeth of the defense, but not be a complete ball hog that doesn't look for his teammates. If they can do that this will be a very strong team.

Amare was very impressive in his leadership of the young, pretrade team. However, watching the playoffs the defense the best teams play is so much better then anything I anticipate the Knicks being able to play anytime soon. The Knicks need a lot and they don't have a lot of resources. I don't see how the current roster despite the presence of Amare and Melo can compete against the better playoff teams in the east without a dramatic change in philosophy and an addition of some big men to rebound and play defense.

The part about adding bigs that can help this team defend and rebound is exactly what i've been saying. What I will say tho is that the Knicks have an edge over the Mavs against a great defensive team cuz we have 2 top tier players in STAT and Melo. When Dirk is out it's a noticeable drop off. As we build this team and improve the rest of the roster, the fact that we have 2 stars will start to have more meaning. WE MUST find bigs that can actually hold down the middle and fight for boards. It's critical. This team is gonna be fine offensively. I don't even really have many concerns on that end anymore. I'm sure that the team will find help at PG and hopefully SG. It's the Bigs that concern me. Obviously cuz there are so few available.

I don't think that a dramatic change in philosophy has to be made. The biggest issue is to add players that do what needs to be done. No one has to tell D. Howard to rebound. He just does. You want to add players that do what you need naturally and with passion. You don't want to have to try and make someone be what they're not. If you need a shooter you add a shooter. If you need a rebounder you add a freakin rebounder.

I think the change in philosophy would involve playing the bigs. The Knicks are not going to get a Howard or probably even a Dalembert. The cap space is going to be saved for 2012 so you are talking about role players that traditionally can't find any run with the current coach. Guys on this forum have suggested even trading for Moz again because he is one big that at times this year did get playing time. I think we agree on the solution however we disagree on whether it will be implemented.

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:We don't have superstars. We have all-stars. They're at points in their careers where improvement is highly uncommon too.

Melo is a top 10 player and Amare is a top 15 player...To me, Melo is a superstar and Amare is a borderline superstar...Melo creates on his own as well as any player in this league if not better, that's super stardom...Chris Bosh is an all star, Carlos Boozer is an all star, Joe Johnson is an all star, Gerald Wallace is an all star,...I think you can see the difference...

Bosh and boozer are not all stars, and melo is no superstar with his horrible shot selection

martin wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:We don't have superstars. We have all-stars. They're at points in their careers where improvement is highly uncommon too.

Melo is a top 10 player and Amare is a top 15 player...To me, Melo is a superstar and Amare is a borderline superstar...Melo creates on his own as well as any player in this league if not beter, that's super stardom...

so for instance, Tuncan, Shaq and Howard not superstars cause they can't create their own shots?

They post up/play with their back to the basket so IMO they can create their own shot. Dump the ball in Duncan/Shaq/Howard and watch them go to work.

IMO Amare is a superstar.

Right. For me it's about results: winning and making your team better, that's what defines a superstar.

And what part of your definition doesnt apply to Carmelo?

tj23 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:We don't have superstars. We have all-stars. They're at points in their careers where improvement is highly uncommon too.

Melo is a top 10 player and Amare is a top 15 player...To me, Melo is a superstar and Amare is a borderline superstar...Melo creates on his own as well as any player in this league if not better, that's super stardom...Chris Bosh is an all star, Carlos Boozer is an all star, Joe Johnson is an all star, Gerald Wallace is an all star,...I think you can see the difference...

Bosh and boozer are not all stars, and melo is no superstar with his horrible shot selection

Chris Bosh is a six time all star...Boozer has made the all star team multiply times as well...Maybe you have a different definition of all star...