Knicks · Chad Ford: Knicks tried to get Shumpert to stop working out and other stuff/Felton to Sac for the 7th pick (page 3)

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

Killa4luv wrote:*Update from the inside on Iman Shumpert*
Knicks did ask him to shut it down but then he got an offer from Phoenix that they might take him higher so he didnt want to lock himself in.

no way i see him going 13 to PHO, but what do I know. Perhaps Knicks do like him a lot.

And this is great news. Shumpert has the ability to be a beast in the backcourt.

I, for one, will hold you responsible if we take him and he's not a backcourt stud.

The Knicks had Brewer last spring and D'Antoni said he couldn't guarantee him minutes. If Brewer can't play for your team why do you draft Shumpert?

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks had Brewer last spring and D'Antoni said he couldn't guarantee him minutes. If Brewer can't play for your team why do you draft Shumpert?

Brewer SG/SF with no offensive game. Shumpert is a 1/2 with some offensive awareness.

'Cause Shumpert is actually a tall PG that can run the offense, start the pick 'n roll, penetrate, shoot (and will get better in this) and can defend from 1-3. He is actually a need, whereas Brewer was a 2 that couldn't shoot the way D'Antoni wanted.

Even if Shumpert cant shoot ideally as a 2, he won't be your typicall 2. He is actually great balance to Billups/TD and if they can all play together like the Knicks envision, TD may suddenly be a keeper again as he will be played like he is, a 2.

joec32033 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks had Brewer last spring and D'Antoni said he couldn't guarantee him minutes. If Brewer can't play for your team why do you draft Shumpert?

Brewer SG/SF with no offensive game. Shumpert is a 1/2 with some offensive awareness.

I don't know. Here are his weaknesses from draftnet. He doesn't sound like a guy the coach is going to play alot.

: Lacks stability/discipline on the court ... Inconsistent … Not efficient at all ... Horrid shot-selection ... Liable to shoot at any time, even when being closely guarded ... Likes to shoot off the dribble on a good deal of his isolation possessions, despite only connecting on 20% of these attempts ... Shoots nearly 5 three pointers per game, despite only shooting 27.8% from behind the arc ... Will often go for the flashy play instead of the easy play, which can lead to unforced turnovers ... Very poor jump shooter, and hasn't shown any improvement in this area during his three-year career with Georgia Tech ... Needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective on offense and he certainly won't have as many isolation opportunities at the next level ... Should look to take advantage of his size and strength more in the post, but has yet to add this dimension to his game ... Attitude has been questioned in the past, but to his credit he appears to have matured over the past year ...

Overall: Shumpert has rare physical tools for a guard on any level of basketball ... His defense should get him on an NBA roster and possibly into a rotation, but his poor basketball IQ will certainly hurt his effectiveness ... Should be an early-mid second round pick this year ...

Donnie made it clear Iman can play next to CB who can play more of a SG role while Iman runs the point. Iman is younger, quicker and a better defender. It also works the same way with TD! Iman really balances our guard situation. Iman is a PG even tho many don't want to accept it. Also he's a better offensive player than given credit for.

CrushAlot wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks had Brewer last spring and D'Antoni said he couldn't guarantee him minutes. If Brewer can't play for your team why do you draft Shumpert?

Brewer SG/SF with no offensive game. Shumpert is a 1/2 with some offensive awareness.

I don't know. Here are his weaknesses from draftnet. He doesn't sound like a guy the coach is going to play alot.

: Lacks stability/discipline on the court ... Inconsistent … Not efficient at all ... Horrid shot-selection ... Liable to shoot at any time, even when being closely guarded ... Likes to shoot off the dribble on a good deal of his isolation possessions, despite only connecting on 20% of these attempts ... Shoots nearly 5 three pointers per game, despite only shooting 27.8% from behind the arc ... Will often go for the flashy play instead of the easy play, which can lead to unforced turnovers ... Very poor jump shooter, and hasn't shown any improvement in this area during his three-year career with Georgia Tech ... Needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective on offense and he certainly won't have as many isolation opportunities at the next level ... Should look to take advantage of his size and strength more in the post, but has yet to add this dimension to his game ... Attitude has been questioned in the past, but to his credit he appears to have matured over the past year ...

Overall: Shumpert has rare physical tools for a guard on any level of basketball ... His defense should get him on an NBA roster and possibly into a rotation, but his poor basketball IQ will certainly hurt his effectiveness ... Should be an early-mid second round pick this year ...

Translated to me that just means he os raw. Imo Mike has taken some offensively weak players and made them acceptable in that area. His offense does that because it is the philosophy he teaches.

Thing is I think we gotta be real here. This kid is not gonna be Wade, Rose, or Paul, or Deron. I think this kid may fit into something like a guard oriented Bruce Bowen, Raja Bell type mold. I think at BEST you are looking at a better defending version of OJ Mayo.

If the kid can be as good as a Raja Bell I would be very very happy. Can't expect too much from a 17th pick.

I think Iman is gonna be good in this situation. In Ga. Tech he had to try and score out of necessity. Here he can take it easy in that regard cuz he'll have scorers all around him. He can do what he's great at. This kid can get a rebound (avg'd 6 rebs) start the break and get down court in a blur. He can penetrate and finish above the rim. All that and he's a good defender too. We don't need Iman to be a Rose type PG. Tho I do believe he will be able to score very well in this system, but his role will be to focus on D and setup teammates.

One thing about a kid with his kind of special physical ability is getting with the right coach. MDA will teach him how to exploit his great talents. Also Iman can learn from Billups and we never really had that before. This kid will listen cuz it's coming from a guy with a RING.

CrushAlot wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks had Brewer last spring and D'Antoni said he couldn't guarantee him minutes. If Brewer can't play for your team why do you draft Shumpert?

Brewer SG/SF with no offensive game. Shumpert is a 1/2 with some offensive awareness.

I don't know. Here are his weaknesses from draftnet. He doesn't sound like a guy the coach is going to play alot.

: Lacks stability/discipline on the court ... Inconsistent … Not efficient at all ... Horrid shot-selection ... Liable to shoot at any time, even when being closely guarded ... Likes to shoot off the dribble on a good deal of his isolation possessions, despite only connecting on 20% of these attempts ... Shoots nearly 5 three pointers per game, despite only shooting 27.8% from behind the arc ... Will often go for the flashy play instead of the easy play, which can lead to unforced turnovers ... Very poor jump shooter, and hasn't shown any improvement in this area during his three-year career with Georgia Tech ... Needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective on offense and he certainly won't have as many isolation opportunities at the next level ... Should look to take advantage of his size and strength more in the post, but has yet to add this dimension to his game ... Attitude has been questioned in the past, but to his credit he appears to have matured over the past year ...

Overall: Shumpert has rare physical tools for a guard on any level of basketball ... His defense should get him on an NBA roster and possibly into a rotation, but his poor basketball IQ will certainly hurt his effectiveness ... Should be an early-mid second round pick this year ...

If the above was written about Russell Westbrook it would not surprise. Russ was lotto and more polished of course.

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks had Brewer last spring and D'Antoni said he couldn't guarantee him minutes. If Brewer can't play for your team why do you draft Shumpert?

Brewer SG/SF with no offensive game. Shumpert is a 1/2 with some offensive awareness.

I don't know. Here are his weaknesses from draftnet. He doesn't sound like a guy the coach is going to play alot.

: Lacks stability/discipline on the court ... Inconsistent … Not efficient at all ... Horrid shot-selection ... Liable to shoot at any time, even when being closely guarded ... Likes to shoot off the dribble on a good deal of his isolation possessions, despite only connecting on 20% of these attempts ... Shoots nearly 5 three pointers per game, despite only shooting 27.8% from behind the arc ... Will often go for the flashy play instead of the easy play, which can lead to unforced turnovers ... Very poor jump shooter, and hasn't shown any improvement in this area during his three-year career with Georgia Tech ... Needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective on offense and he certainly won't have as many isolation opportunities at the next level ... Should look to take advantage of his size and strength more in the post, but has yet to add this dimension to his game ... Attitude has been questioned in the past, but to his credit he appears to have matured over the past year ...

Overall: Shumpert has rare physical tools for a guard on any level of basketball ... His defense should get him on an NBA roster and possibly into a rotation, but his poor basketball IQ will certainly hurt his effectiveness ... Should be an early-mid second round pick this year ...

If the above was written about Russell Westbrook it would not surprise. Russ was lotto and more polished of course.

I think he's about as close to Westbrook as we're gonna get:

Hght w/o Shoes	Hght w/shoes	Wght	Wingspan   Stdng Reach	Body Fat	No Step Vert	Max Vert  B Press	Agility 	3/4 Sprint
Westbrook	
6' 2.25"	6' 3.5"	        192	6' 7.75"   8' 4"	4.8	        30.0	        36.5	   12	       10.98	        3.08
Iman
6' 4.25"	6' 5.5"	        222	6' 9.5"	   8' 3.5"	6.5	        36.5	        42.0	   18	       11.10	        3.18

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks had Brewer last spring and D'Antoni said he couldn't guarantee him minutes. If Brewer can't play for your team why do you draft Shumpert?

Brewer SG/SF with no offensive game. Shumpert is a 1/2 with some offensive awareness.

I don't know. Here are his weaknesses from draftnet. He doesn't sound like a guy the coach is going to play alot.

: Lacks stability/discipline on the court ... Inconsistent … Not efficient at all ... Horrid shot-selection ... Liable to shoot at any time, even when being closely guarded ... Likes to shoot off the dribble on a good deal of his isolation possessions, despite only connecting on 20% of these attempts ... Shoots nearly 5 three pointers per game, despite only shooting 27.8% from behind the arc ... Will often go for the flashy play instead of the easy play, which can lead to unforced turnovers ... Very poor jump shooter, and hasn't shown any improvement in this area during his three-year career with Georgia Tech ... Needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective on offense and he certainly won't have as many isolation opportunities at the next level ... Should look to take advantage of his size and strength more in the post, but has yet to add this dimension to his game ... Attitude has been questioned in the past, but to his credit he appears to have matured over the past year ...

Overall: Shumpert has rare physical tools for a guard on any level of basketball ... His defense should get him on an NBA roster and possibly into a rotation, but his poor basketball IQ will certainly hurt his effectiveness ... Should be an early-mid second round pick this year ...

If the above was written about Russell Westbrook it would not surprise. Russ was lotto and more polished of course.

I think he's about as close to Westbrook as we're gonna get:

Hght w/o Shoes	Hght w/shoes	Wght	Wingspan   Stdng Reach	Body Fat	No Step Vert	Max Vert  B Press	Agility 	3/4 Sprint
Westbrook	
6' 2.25"	6' 3.5"	        192	6' 7.75"   8' 4"	4.8	        30.0	        36.5	   12	       10.98	        3.08
Iman
6' 4.25"	6' 5.5"	        222	6' 9.5"	   8' 3.5"	6.5	        36.5	        42.0	   18	       11.10	        3.18

It is funny you bring up Westbrook because I was gonna name him in one of the Pts you shouldn't compare him to but Weather is not on the level of the guys I mentioned. I can definitely see comparisons

Russell Westbrook's draft profile:

Strengths: Athletic and explosive combo guard with the length to make up for his lack of height … Attacks the basket with a lethal first step and crossover ability … Can handle the rock well and gets into the lane effortlessly … Finishes well at the rim and is unafraid to go up in traffic … Huge wingspan allows him to play much bigger than his 6-3 height … Gets good lift on his jumpshot and has a quick release … Solid passer with unselfishness, always looks for the open man … Has an excellent mid-range game … A gym rat, really works hard to improve Has a great attitude, extremely coach-able … Has the potential to be a bigtime scorer when given the chance … Really excels defensively and has a chance to develop into a great defender … His anticipation for steals and his on ball defensive ability are special Solid passer who shows the ability to play the point guard position …

Offensively Westbrook was light years ahead of where Shumpert is. They aren't even comparable so please stop trying with physical measurements.

islesfan wrote:Russell Westbrook's draft profile:

Strengths: Athletic and explosive combo guard with the length to make up for his lack of height … Attacks the basket with a lethal first step and crossover ability … Can handle the rock well and gets into the lane effortlessly … Finishes well at the rim and is unafraid to go up in traffic … Huge wingspan allows him to play much bigger than his 6-3 height … Gets good lift on his jumpshot and has a quick release … Solid passer with unselfishness, always looks for the open man … Has an excellent mid-range game … A gym rat, really works hard to improve Has a great attitude, extremely coach-able … Has the potential to be a bigtime scorer when given the chance … Really excels defensively and has a chance to develop into a great defender … His anticipation for steals and his on ball defensive ability are special Solid passer who shows the ability to play the point guard position …

Offensively Westbrook was light years ahead of where Shumpert is. They aren't even comparable so please stop trying with physical measurements.

I hate to break it to you, but Westbrooks biggest flaw right now is how he runs the team as a PG. Did you even watch the games and listen to the chatter that perhaps his teammates were unhappy with his ball hogging ways. He got sat for the end of a game cuz he wasn't passing the damn ball. Don't tell me about Westbrook being so far superior to Iman.

nixluva wrote:

islesfan wrote:Russell Westbrook's draft profile:

Strengths: Athletic and explosive combo guard with the length to make up for his lack of height … Attacks the basket with a lethal first step and crossover ability … Can handle the rock well and gets into the lane effortlessly … Finishes well at the rim and is unafraid to go up in traffic … Huge wingspan allows him to play much bigger than his 6-3 height … Gets good lift on his jumpshot and has a quick release … Solid passer with unselfishness, always looks for the open man … Has an excellent mid-range game … A gym rat, really works hard to improve Has a great attitude, extremely coach-able … Has the potential to be a bigtime scorer when given the chance … Really excels defensively and has a chance to develop into a great defender … His anticipation for steals and his on ball defensive ability are special Solid passer who shows the ability to play the point guard position …

Offensively Westbrook was light years ahead of where Shumpert is. They aren't even comparable so please stop trying with physical measurements.

I hate to break it to you, but Westbrooks biggest flaw right now is how he runs the team as a PG. Did you even watch the games and listen to the chatter that perhaps his teammates were unhappy with his ball hogging ways. He got sat for the end of a game cuz he wasn't passing the damn ball. Don't tell me about Westbrook being so far superior to Iman.

I'm not talking right now. I'm talking about both players coming out of college and their respective offensive profiles. You're the one insisting on comparing them.

islesfan wrote:

nixluva wrote:

islesfan wrote:Russell Westbrook's draft profile:

Strengths: Athletic and explosive combo guard with the length to make up for his lack of height … Attacks the basket with a lethal first step and crossover ability … Can handle the rock well and gets into the lane effortlessly … Finishes well at the rim and is unafraid to go up in traffic … Huge wingspan allows him to play much bigger than his 6-3 height … Gets good lift on his jumpshot and has a quick release … Solid passer with unselfishness, always looks for the open man … Has an excellent mid-range game … A gym rat, really works hard to improve Has a great attitude, extremely coach-able … Has the potential to be a bigtime scorer when given the chance … Really excels defensively and has a chance to develop into a great defender … His anticipation for steals and his on ball defensive ability are special Solid passer who shows the ability to play the point guard position …

Offensively Westbrook was light years ahead of where Shumpert is. They aren't even comparable so please stop trying with physical measurements.

I hate to break it to you, but Westbrooks biggest flaw right now is how he runs the team as a PG. Did you even watch the games and listen to the chatter that perhaps his teammates were unhappy with his ball hogging ways. He got sat for the end of a game cuz he wasn't passing the damn ball. Don't tell me about Westbrook being so far superior to Iman.

I'm not talking right now. I'm talking about both players coming out of college and their respective offensive profiles. You're the one insisting on comparing them.

I think a lot of this stuff is political. Some guys get all the love and glowing write ups. Iman is very similar to Westbrook. He's just as aggressive on D and ball hawking. He's just as fast, jumps higher, has great lateral quickness and elusiveness. He can also pass.

islesfan wrote:

nixluva wrote:

islesfan wrote:Russell Westbrook's draft profile:

Strengths: Athletic and explosive combo guard with the length to make up for his lack of height … Attacks the basket with a lethal first step and crossover ability … Can handle the rock well and gets into the lane effortlessly … Finishes well at the rim and is unafraid to go up in traffic … Huge wingspan allows him to play much bigger than his 6-3 height … Gets good lift on his jumpshot and has a quick release … Solid passer with unselfishness, always looks for the open man … Has an excellent mid-range game … A gym rat, really works hard to improve Has a great attitude, extremely coach-able … Has the potential to be a bigtime scorer when given the chance … Really excels defensively and has a chance to develop into a great defender … His anticipation for steals and his on ball defensive ability are special Solid passer who shows the ability to play the point guard position …

Offensively Westbrook was light years ahead of where Shumpert is. They aren't even comparable so please stop trying with physical measurements.

I hate to break it to you, but Westbrooks biggest flaw right now is how he runs the team as a PG. Did you even watch the games and listen to the chatter that perhaps his teammates were unhappy with his ball hogging ways. He got sat for the end of a game cuz he wasn't passing the damn ball. Don't tell me about Westbrook being so far superior to Iman.

I'm not talking right now. I'm talking about both players coming out of college and their respective offensive profiles. You're the one insisting on comparing them.

the comparisons were about their physical attributes, and they are very similar.

There is a reason Westbrook went top 5, and it's called talent, and the Knicks weren't getting that level talent at 17.

martin wrote:

islesfan wrote:

nixluva wrote:

islesfan wrote:Russell Westbrook's draft profile:

Strengths: Athletic and explosive combo guard with the length to make up for his lack of height … Attacks the basket with a lethal first step and crossover ability … Can handle the rock well and gets into the lane effortlessly … Finishes well at the rim and is unafraid to go up in traffic … Huge wingspan allows him to play much bigger than his 6-3 height … Gets good lift on his jumpshot and has a quick release … Solid passer with unselfishness, always looks for the open man … Has an excellent mid-range game … A gym rat, really works hard to improve Has a great attitude, extremely coach-able … Has the potential to be a bigtime scorer when given the chance … Really excels defensively and has a chance to develop into a great defender … His anticipation for steals and his on ball defensive ability are special Solid passer who shows the ability to play the point guard position …

Offensively Westbrook was light years ahead of where Shumpert is. They aren't even comparable so please stop trying with physical measurements.

I hate to break it to you, but Westbrooks biggest flaw right now is how he runs the team as a PG. Did you even watch the games and listen to the chatter that perhaps his teammates were unhappy with his ball hogging ways. He got sat for the end of a game cuz he wasn't passing the damn ball. Don't tell me about Westbrook being so far superior to Iman.

I'm not talking right now. I'm talking about both players coming out of college and their respective offensive profiles. You're the one insisting on comparing them.

the comparisons were about their physical attributes, and they are very similar.

There is a reason Westbrook went top 5, and it's called talent, and the Knicks weren't getting that level talent at 17.

As they say, if he could do everything, then we wouldn't have been able to draft him. Now that doesn't mean he can't continue to improve and that's the hope when you take a prospect like Iman. They took him cuz in their workout and in all his other workouts, Iman showed he could indeed shoot and he was able to pass effectively. The rest of the fine tuning will come as they work with him. I'm pretty sure that Billups is gonna get in his head and get him down at Abunassars gym.

No one has mentioned it yet, but The Chad actually reported something right.

Shumpert can be a good fit if they use him right. The no offensive game is over blown as you don't average 17pts 4ast per game with no offensive skill. He shot .333 from 3 his soph yr so he does have shooting ability, its the type of shots he was said to take which may be contributed to having to handle to ball so much which may not be the case in NY.

I don't think they should be looking to groom him as a PG. Billups and Amare will run the pick and roll. Melo will iso and attack mismatches, Id rather force Melo to be more of a distributor like he was showing he could do toward the later part of the season. Shumpert just needs to be that guy that knocks down open shots based off the double teams that Billups,Melo,Amare draw. While also being a terror in transition attacking the basket.