Knicks · With less than 48 hrs to go to the Draft... (page 1)

I have to think that baring any sudden prospect drops, Vucevic makes the most sense, if available. He is a skilled center who has length, rebounding efficiency, and the Bball IQ to be a solid defender down the road. The only reason he isn't a top-5 pick is because of lack of athleticism. But players like Marc Gasol and Mehmet Okur aren't great athletes and have been successful with the same tools that Vucevic has. I think you have to have a reasonably skilled center to play alongside Stoudemire and he would be a great fit with this team as currently constructed. I hate seeing the comparisons to players like Nenad Krstic. Yes he has the same touch and poor athleticism, but he is a far better rebounder, post player, and tougher than these soft european centers. I really believe he can become a Marc Gasol type in his prime, i don't see any reason why not. Maybe we can sign someone like Jeff Foster in the off-season to help him develop his defensive skills. I think we have to do this and then we can choose between the series of PGs that should be available later if we can get a second draft pick by trade. I'm looking forward to this draft tomorrow and we must get one or two players that can be real contributers in the near future. We got the stars, which were situations that we couldn't screw up, now this is the key to putting role players around them that put us over the top. We don't need to hit the jackpot and find more stars, but we need to get this right and find a couple of solid players who can help us beat teams like Miami in depth.

The future of this team depends on an almost Starless draft. Who would've thought that. I'm happy that we don't need to land a star. We don't have that kind of pressure and to be honest Donnie is a beast at finding solid role players. Guys like Rik Smits, the Davis boys, Foster, Fields etc. This is his kind of draft. Let's all hope it works out.

If Vucevic equals Marc Gasol based on measurements and skill then Jeremy Tyler is Dwight Howard based on measurements and skills.

AnubisADL wrote:If Vucevic equals Marc Gasol based on measurements and skill then Jeremy Tyler is Dwight Howard based on measurements and skills.

here's the 1 thing with Tyler though: if he so good, for a big, athletic dude, why does he not project higher?

All he has to do is have some fantastic workouts. Even Biyombo failed in a 1 on none workout last week and is still projected in lottery.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Arhp2WuSwAv0BZaZVYKxR.G8vLYF?slug=ycn-8674693

imagine if Brooks, Vucevic, gone? Tyler isn't even top 30 according to this mock, can he become a bust or lesser rotational player?

Shumpert is the other athlete monster to decide from Tyler. Think he would be my pick if Vucevic is gone...

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:If Vucevic equals Marc Gasol based on measurements and skill then Jeremy Tyler is Dwight Howard based on measurements and skills.

here's the 1 thing with Tyler though: if he so good, for a big, athletic dude, why does he not project higher?

All he has to do is have some fantastic workouts. Even Biyombo failed in a 1 on none workout last week and is still projected in lottery.

Same reason Flynn and Rubio were drafted ahead of Jennings. If scouts don't see you play then you drop.

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:If Vucevic equals Marc Gasol based on measurements and skill then Jeremy Tyler is Dwight Howard based on measurements and skills.

here's the 1 thing with Tyler though: if he so good, for a big, athletic dude, why does he not project higher?

All he has to do is have some fantastic workouts. Even Biyombo failed in a 1 on none workout last week and is still projected in lottery.

Same reason Flynn and Rubio were drafted ahead of Jennings. If scouts don't see you play then you drop.

big difference though: he might drop to the second round and he's a big man. Jenning was in a draft with a ton of PGs ahead of him and only dropped to #10 or whatever.

Apples and Oranges.

Tyler not even impressing enough to crack the 20-25 range.

RonRon wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Arhp2WuSwAv0BZaZVYKxR.G8vLYF?slug=ycn-8674693

imagine if Brooks, Vucevic, gone? Tyler isn't even top 30 according to this mock, can he become a bust or lesser rotational player?

Shumpert is the other athlete monster to decide from Tyler. Think he would be my pick if Vucevic is gone...

Jennings wasn't mocked in lottery last year either. Jeremy Tyler isn't falling out of the first round.

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:If Vucevic equals Marc Gasol based on measurements and skill then Jeremy Tyler is Dwight Howard based on measurements and skills.

here's the 1 thing with Tyler though: if he so good, for a big, athletic dude, why does he not project higher?

All he has to do is have some fantastic workouts. Even Biyombo failed in a 1 on none workout last week and is still projected in lottery.

Same reason Flynn and Rubio were drafted ahead of Jennings. If scouts don't see you play then you drop.

big difference though: he might drop to the second round and he's a big man. Jenning was in a draft with a ton of PGs ahead of him and only dropped to #10 or whatever.

Apples and Oranges.

Tyler not even impressing enough to crack the 20-25 range.

The draft hasnt happened yet. I dont expect teams to sing praises about Jeremy Tyler before the draft.

"(Workouts) are much more important for a guy like Jeremy than they are for a guy like Kyle (Singler) and Jon (Leuer)," said Chad Buchanan, Portland's acting general manager, "because very few teams got to see him an extensive amount this season. We see him a lot before he got to Japan, but he needs to come over here and prove that he can make plays, that he can defend, he can block shots against these guys we've seen a bunch of."

.....

"Every single time I step on the court, wherever I'm at, it's important," said Tyler. "It's not so much that i have a lot to prove; I have a lot to show. I have to show them that I can play, that I learned overseas. Three-on-three is a little hard to show, two-on-two is a little hard to show, but in the five-on-five setting I feel like I'm pretty advanced for where I am in my life and career right now. All that stuff will show eventually."

What he did show during his workout in Portland is that he possesses an NBA-ready body and the right mindset to play in the paint.

"Jeremy has some physical tools that are going to translate to our level," said Buchanan. "He's physical, he's athletic. He's not afraid to lean on guys. He's going to hit you. He can spin in the post pretty quick for a guy his size."

Source: http://blogs.trailblazers.com/Default.as...

Straight from The Blazers GM mouth.

AnubisADL wrote:

RonRon wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Arhp2WuSwAv0BZaZVYKxR.G8vLYF?slug=ycn-8674693

imagine if Brooks, Vucevic, gone? Tyler isn't even top 30 according to this mock, can he become a bust or lesser rotational player?

Shumpert is the other athlete monster to decide from Tyler. Think he would be my pick if Vucevic is gone...

Jennings wasn't mocked in lottery last year either. Jeremy Tyler isn't falling out of the first round.

teens in a PG heavy draft. Tyler mocked in second round with almost zero big men.

I think Tyler is the risky pick - and Vucevic is the safe pick. Sometimes the safe pick works in the draft, sometimes the risky pick works.

It's seeming more and more like the Knicks will play it safe. Kind of makes sense. Not saying it's the best way to play it. I have mixed feelings with so much talent and potential on the board... though i do like Vucevic. I'd be happy with him.

crzymdups wrote:I think Tyler is the risky pick - and Vucevic is the safe pick. Sometimes the safe pick works in the draft, sometimes the risky pick works.

It's seeming more and more like the Knicks will play it safe. Kind of makes sense. Not saying it's the best way to play it. I have mixed feelings with so much talent and potential on the board... though i do like Vucevic. I'd be happy with him.

I agree. I also am back to wondering if the Knicks should just go with Faried at 17. If the Knicks get the Bulls pick at 30 they could take J.Johnson or one of the many guards they are interested in. I think there is a pretty good chance Session is a Knick by the trade deadline next year at the latest if the lockout isn't too long.

crzymdups wrote:I think Tyler is the risky pick - and Vucevic is the safe pick. Sometimes the safe pick works in the draft, sometimes the risky pick works.

It's seeming more and more like the Knicks will play it safe. Kind of makes sense. Not saying it's the best way to play it. I have mixed feelings with so much talent and potential on the board... though i do like Vucevic. I'd be happy with him.

I go with the safe pick in this draft. We need a role player who can fill a need, and not swing for the fences.

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

RonRon wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Arhp2WuSwAv0BZaZVYKxR.G8vLYF?slug=ycn-8674693

imagine if Brooks, Vucevic, gone? Tyler isn't even top 30 according to this mock, can he become a bust or lesser rotational player?

Shumpert is the other athlete monster to decide from Tyler. Think he would be my pick if Vucevic is gone...

Jennings wasn't mocked in lottery last year either. Jeremy Tyler isn't falling out of the first round.

teens in a PG heavy draft. Tyler mocked in second round with almost zero big men.

“He’s not going to be a first-round pick,” NBA Scouting Director Ryan Blake said this week. “There is a risk factor.”

On the other hand, Blake said, “Some general managers may have done more homework and may have a better feeling.”

....

--Tyler made national headlines in April 2009 when he announced he would turn pro overseas. His goal then was to ready himself for the June 2011 NBA draft, the first time he would be eligible to join the NBA, according to league rules. The plan was for Tyler’s older brother James Tyler Jr. to move with him overseas and help support his international transition.

But that changed after July 2009, when James Tyler Jr., then 19, had a criminal charge filed against him in San Diego County. It stemmed from an incident in December 2008, when two teens were fatally shot as they walked home from the party. Authorities said three carloads of suspected gang members crashed a party and waved or pointed guns at the guests, including James Tyler Jr., who pleaded guilty to assault earlier this year and was placed on probation. The convicted killer, Frederick Garcia Cruz, was sentenced in March to 50 years to life in prison.

--Jeremy Tyler’s first year overseas ended up being fraught with perceived attitude problems after his family didn’t move with him as planned. He signed a $140,000 contract with Maccabi Haifa in Israel but quit the team in March 2010 after struggling to relate to the team and the culture. He played just 7.6 minutes per game in 10 games.

“I think he is misunderstood because of his youth and many of the experiences he has had so far in his young life,” Hill said.

......

In recent weeks, he interviewed “extremely well” with NBA teams “and got a lot of individual workouts because of it,” Blake said.

Tyler referred questions from the Union-Tribune to his agent, who didn’t return calls.

“We still don’t know a lot about him,” Blake said.

Source: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/...

No mention of individual workouts anywhere else but this is straight from an NBA scouts mouth.

AnubisADL wrote:
No mention of individual workouts anywhere else but this is straight from an NBA scouts mouth.

yeah, and that scout is saying: he's not a first round pick, he's a risk and no one knows enough about him. same as we're all saying. if the knicks could get an early second round pick, i would LOVE to take him. if 17 is the only pick the knicks have... i'm sorry, it's too risky. they need guys who can play and fill roles around melo and amar'e...

Tyler has some talent to be sure, but he's also still raw. He's not coming in and getting it going right off the bat. Since he's not ready, that leaves doubt. He didn't exactly light it up overseas. He only just recently started to put things together and so much like Jennings it gives GM's pause. At least they have had positive things to say about Tyler in his interviews. The fear that he has attitude problems is gone and that's a good thing.

Vucevic is a known commodity. He played well in college. You can't sneeze at 17/10. He's not raw. He skilled and very low risk. He doesn't have more raw talent than Tyler, but you know what you have with Vucevic and there's something to be said for that. I'd have no problem with Tyler, but i'd understand if they didn't want to risk a long term project. Tyler isn't in NBA shape and is gonna have to really dedicate himself to a real conditioning program, cuz he's soft and doesn't have great cardio right now. A GM has to wonder if that's just circumstantial or a sign that he could be headed for Eddy Curry status. It's not a cut and dry decision.