Knicks · Rambling thoughts on our future (page 1)

Childs2Dudley made a thread that got locked because he was calling out people as being stupid. Maybe not the nicest way to go about things, but he' right. Everyone freaks out about everything here. Especially about draft picks that we have no way to tell if they are a bust or not. It's sad because there are a lot of knowledgable posters here. Take a step back and assess our main pieces and supporting pieces for a second:

Amar'e Stoudemire, Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Landry Fields. That doesn't count some other solid pieces like TD and Shawne Williams.

Let's further state that we have leverage with Chauncey's expiring and the fact that it looks the new cap will allow for 70M. And there's the fact that it seems CP3 is angling to come here.

Now, let's take a look at the draft last night. Our choices were trade up, trade down or stay at 17 and take the playre that best fits our biggest need. We ended up not trading down because that would've compromised CP3/filling out the roster because we would've had to take on a contract, we didn't trade down because...well...I don't know...probably because they got the player they wanted at 17. Shumpert fills a need. Every draft people complain about "eugh we took another undersized forward" or "eugh we didn't have a need fo rthat guy". THis time we got it right, and people are ripping it because Singleton was there. That's nuts. Singleton is less of an offensive player by far than Shumpert and wouldn't get minutes with STAT and Melo ahead of him.

Now take a look at out roster:

C Turiaf, Jordan, Harrellson
PF Stoudemire, Williams
SF Anthony, Walker
SG Shumpert, Fields
PG Billups, Douglas, Rautins

That right there is a 2-5 seed if they stay healthy. Considering the fact that we will most certainly upgrade our starting Center and obtain a good shooter AND eventually grab a star PG or a very good point guard plus veterans to plug in the remaining holes, what is there not to like about the next 3 or 4 seasons? Does anyone doubt that our '12-'13 roster (or sooner) could look something like this:

C Lopez or Dalembert, Jordan
PF Stoudemire, Harrellson
SF Anthony, Williams
SG Veteran 2Guard, Shumpert
PG Chris Paul, Sessions

Isn't that a title contender? Should I be like half the people here and say and STAT/Melo isn't the right core? Why shouldn't I be happy about our draft pick who is a lockdown defender and an athletic freak with great size and strength for his position? DON'T WE ALL AGREE THAT WE SUCK AT DEFENSE AND NEED PLAYERS WHO COMMIT ON THAT END OF THE COURT?! I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS

I'm with you on this post. It amazes me the amount of negativity on this board. We went from a team
with zero chance to a team with Stat and Melo and future cap space and some idiot posters are still
not satisfied. Amazing.

FeltonandAmare wrote:I'm with you on this post. It amazes me the amount of negativity on this board. We went from a team
with zero chance to a team with Stat and Melo and future cap space and some idiot posters are still
not satisfied. Amazing.

I think forums draw negative people. Some people come to talk about something, others come to complain because that's what they love. We have such an exciting team that will only get better, but they won't be happy until the 2nd rounder they think is going to be an all star is chosen, and we accumulate twenty 1st rounders and choose who is the top of their projected board.

MSG3 wrote:Childs2Dudley made a thread that got locked because he was calling out people as being stupid. Maybe not the nicest way to go about things, but he' right. Everyone freaks out about everything here. Especially about draft picks that we have no way to tell if they are a bust or not. It's sad because there are a lot of knowledgable posters here. Take a step back and assess our main pieces and supporting pieces for a second:

Amar'e Stoudemire, Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Landry Fields. That doesn't count some other solid pieces like TD and Shawne Williams.

Let's further state that we have leverage with Chauncey's expiring and the fact that it looks the new cap will allow for 70M. And there's the fact that it seems CP3 is angling to come here.

Now, let's take a look at the draft last night. Our choices were trade up, trade down or stay at 17 and take the playre that best fits our biggest need. We ended up not trading down because that would've compromised CP3/filling out the roster because we would've had to take on a contract, we didn't trade down because...well...I don't know...probably because they got the player they wanted at 17. Shumpert fills a need. Every draft people complain about "eugh we took another undersized forward" or "eugh we didn't have a need fo rthat guy". THis time we got it right, and people are ripping it because Singleton was there. That's nuts. Singleton is less of an offensive player by far than Shumpert and wouldn't get minutes with STAT and Melo ahead of him.

Now take a look at out roster:

C Turiaf, Jordan, Harrellson
PF Stoudemire, Williams
SF Anthony, Walker
SG Shumpert, Fields
PG Billups, Douglas, Rautins

That right there is a 2-5 seed if they stay healthy. Considering the fact that we will most certainly upgrade our starting Center and obtain a good shooter AND eventually grab a star PG or a very good point guard plus veterans to plug in the remaining holes, what is there not to like about the next 3 or 4 seasons? Does anyone doubt that our '12-'13 roster (or sooner) could look something like this:

C Lopez or Dalembert, Jordan
PF Stoudemire, Harrellson
SF Anthony, Williams
SG Veteran 2Guard, Shumpert
PG Chris Paul, Sessions

Isn't that a title contender? Should I be like half the people here and say and STAT/Melo isn't the right core? Why shouldn't I be happy about our draft pick who is a lockdown defender and an athletic freak with great size and strength for his position? DON'T WE ALL AGREE THAT WE SUCK AT DEFENSE AND NEED PLAYERS WHO COMMIT ON THAT END OF THE COURT?! I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS

Word. 100% agree with this post. I think the negs in the forum are just less patient than the rest because it's been a long hard slog gettin to this stage. Can't blame a mofo for feeling uneasy with the ownership and management of this team given our past decade. But as MSG3 writes above, things are looking way up with a clear path to contention ahead.

I'm amazed when I think about the fact that we actually have STAT and MELO on the same team!!! That's nothing to sneeze at. I mean they were top 5 scorers most of this season. There's no way we could have gotten much better than this short of getting Lebron and Howard. It's just not a realistic look at the immense change that has taken place on this team. I think what really messed many fans up is the sweep in the playoffs.

If this team we fully healthy and could've gotten a game or 2 I don't think that there would be so much negativity. As usual the only thing they will accept is this team winning, which is understandable, but to think this team isn't better and that it won't be one of the top teams over the next 5 years is nuts. With every day this team is getting better and better, even if it's in small steps. We didn't go backwards after this draft WE GOT BETTER!!!!

The Knicks saw what we lacked last season and addressed those problems and will continue to improve as we move along.

The negativity is mind-boggling. Again we add another piece to a team almost ready for a run, so we are moving forward to retooling our supporting cast. We have 2 clear-cut stars in melo and stoudemire, 1 former all-star/current great role player in billups, and now have i would say 3 solid young role players to build with in fields, douglas, and now shumpert. Also, Jordan and Harrelson are wild cards right now, but still very intriguing. I would say our backcourt is set until we have any opportunity at chris paul. I am very ecstatic about this roster with a good training camp and a couple of potential FA additions. Let's focus on adding another center and shooter and make a deep playoff run happen next season.

If the cap is really near 70m, does it increase or decrease our chances at a 3rd star? On one hand we would be able to pay 1 max and be able to sign MLE like money this year or next. If Shumpert is able to play PG would we be a better fit with a center or a PG?

Dwight Howard would be my first choice. And another SG that is a lockdown defender that is a two way player, ideally a Trevor Ariza with a more consistant shot/range. We can become a #1 defensive team. Players, vets that want a ring would surely take a paycut. KG, Ray Allen, on our bench?

I would keep TD too.

Dwight Howard
Amare
Melo
Ariza
Shumpert

KG
Ray Allen
TD
Jerome Jordan
Balkman
W/e his name is, big boy we just drafted.

Things have been pretty bad here since JVG, Grunfeld and eventually Checketts left. The Walsh hire was a move in the right direction but the executing of his 'plan' was somewhat costly especially the Jeffries trade. I know for myself the pre Melo team had me more excited and invested than I have been in a long time. I always watch the games but I had gotten to the point where I would only watch parts of games and by February I was missing some and channel surfing on and off no matter what was happening on the court. This year was different for the first time in a long time there was hope and the team was young and good. The Melo trade took that fire away from me again. Not because I didn't want Melo but because I really liked the pre-Melo team and I think the Knicks gave away way too much. Ultimately I think Walsh felt the same way and the Dolan interference and involvement in that trade handcuffed the Knicks future until 2016 minimally. I think the Walsh resignation might be an indication that the dark days are not over. I also don't think Paul automatically comes to NY. I am not sure why the notion that all star players want to play in NY continues to hold up. The plan netted Amare and he has been great but he wasn't the prize the plan was supposed to get. Yeah the Knicks got Melo but look at the cost. Is it negativity or is it just reality based thinking that is frustrating you?

Not sure if

Duncan
Matt Gasol
Deandre Jordan
McGee
Hibbert

Have the same effect to lure in vets as I think Dwight would. Aside from Duncan, they probably would be asking for near max or max to come, especially for the restricted and ones with qualifying offers.

If Shumpert can really become a Westbrook like game, his defense would be more valuable than what a pure PG that Co3 or Deron could bring...

CrushAlot wrote:Things have been pretty bad here since JVG, Grunfeld and eventually Checketts left. The Walsh hire was a move in the right direction but the executing of his 'plan' was somewhat costly especially the Jeffries trade. I know for myself the pre Melo team had me more excited and invested than I have been in a long time. I always watch the games but I had gotten to the point where I would only watch parts of games and by February I was missing some and channel surfing on and off no matter what was happening on the court. This year was different for the first time in a long time there was hope and the team was young and good. The Melo trade took that fire away from me again. Not because I didn't want Melo but because I really liked the pre-Melo team and I think the Knicks gave away way too much. Ultimately I think Walsh felt the same way and the Dolan interference and involvement in that trade handcuffed the Knicks future until 2016 minimally. I think the Walsh resignation might be an indication that the dark days are not over. I also don't think Paul automatically comes to NY. I am not sure why the notion that all star players want to play in NY continues to hold up. The plan netted Amare and he has been great but he wasn't the prize the plan was supposed to get. Yeah the Knicks got Melo but look at the cost. Is it negativity or is it just reality based thinking that is frustrating you?

What's frustrating is that people keep maintaining that we are handcuffed. Again, we have cap space and potentially massive cap space if the numbers for CBA that are being thrown out are accurate.

I was pumped about the Knicks early in the year also but it was clear we would never be for real with that core. Think about it. Let's say we keep the old roster and are faced with resigning Galo, Chandler, etc. Then let's say we hope someone like Dwight or CP3 or Deron want to sign, but they don't. Then what? We'd be enjoying a string of 2nd round exits for years.

We have 2 stars now and a core we have the ability to build around. Even if we don't nab the 3rd star we will still be able to add enough to be legit contenders. That wasn't the case when it was just STAT on board.

People were so pumped about chearing for a winner again that they forgot the goal was a championship. Not a playoff birth. We are in line for that goal.