Knicks · I see CP3 in & shumpert out (page 1)

gunsnewing wrote:I don't want people falling in love with shumpert if he plays well when he may very well be traded for Paul. You know that's what the knicks do anytime they have young players with talent.

It depends how well the team is playing. Knicks started sliding at the wrong time last year. Had we been 10 games over I don't think we wouldve been forced to give up so much in the deal.

Shumpert might be involved in a CP3 deal, but the next deadline will be different. CP3 won't be faced with a decision on whether to risk leaving money on the table since the CBA will be resolved. If we're playing well, maybe Shumpert will be spared if CP3 says he'll only extend with Knicks. Maybe then we give up Fields, Billups, TD, whatever draft pick we have at the time, etc.

Suns were high on Shumpert so maybe Nash lands here at some point.

Who knows. We have options though.

martin wrote:i want to say that CP3, Deron, Howard and the like can be signed outright with the numbers that are coming out to the media about the new CBA

exactly, we are in excellent shape cap wise especially as it relates to the situation our 2 biggest east coast rivals (chicago & miami).

martin wrote:i want to say that CP3, Deron, Howard and the like can be signed outright with the numbers that are coming out to the media about the new CBA

Isn't it interesting how so many were gloom and doom and thought the cap would actually be lower with a new CBA? I mean seriously, if you look at the situation with common sense - lowering the cap would hurt the leagues biggest franchises. Does anyone really think Stern wants to see that happen?

fishmike wrote:I see what Guns sees. If Fields, Shumpert, Williams and Douglas are having a productive year we will definatly gut the roster along w/ Billups expiring for CP3, Ariza and any bad contract we can take on for extra picks going to NO, and why not? This is what we are. Any thoughts of developing prospects left w/ Walsh

If we do, I won't complain too much. There's a far cry between gutting the roster with those players, who may be *good* vs. what we gave up in the Carmelo trade.

fishmike wrote:I see what Guns sees. If Fields, Shumpert, Williams and Douglas are having a productive year we will definatly gut the roster along w/ Billups expiring for CP3, Ariza and any bad contract we can take on for extra picks going to NO, and why not? This is what we are. Any thoughts of developing prospects left w/ Walsh

yeah, i agree. but i think it left the second isiah/dolan took over the melo negotiations and gave away our team.

Solace wrote:

fishmike wrote:I see what Guns sees. If Fields, Shumpert, Williams and Douglas are having a productive year we will definatly gut the roster along w/ Billups expiring for CP3, Ariza and any bad contract we can take on for extra picks going to NO, and why not? This is what we are. Any thoughts of developing prospects left w/ Walsh

If we do, I won't complain too much. There's a far cry between gutting the roster with those players, who may be *good* vs. what we gave up in the Carmelo trade.

to be fair, i think if you were talking about making that trade the summer before the season started, it would have been really hard to get denver to bite. mozgov was a complete unknown, wilson was solid but needed work, gallo was solid but needed work, felton could only get a two year deal in FA. ironically, over the summer, AR was probably the most appealing young guy on our roster, trade-value-wise.

a lot can change quickly in the NBA. remember when ZBO was untradeable?

if the knicks come out and have a good record and fields, douglas, jerome jordan, etc, are contributing... wouldn't surprise me to see them all go. and it'd be sad. but it's obviously what dolan wants and is angling for.

though if they were already planning for the CP3 trade, surprised they didn't take a reggie jackson or chris singleton at pick 17, just for the trade value. though i think donnie asking MDA who he wanted was donnie's last favor to him on his way out. give the coach his guy before he gets kicked out by the owner. sigh.

crzymdups wrote:

Solace wrote:

fishmike wrote:I see what Guns sees. If Fields, Shumpert, Williams and Douglas are having a productive year we will definatly gut the roster along w/ Billups expiring for CP3, Ariza and any bad contract we can take on for extra picks going to NO, and why not? This is what we are. Any thoughts of developing prospects left w/ Walsh

If we do, I won't complain too much. There's a far cry between gutting the roster with those players, who may be *good* vs. what we gave up in the Carmelo trade.

to be fair, i think if you were talking about making that trade the summer before the season started, it would have been really hard to get denver to bite. mozgov was a complete unknown, wilson was solid but needed work, gallo was solid but needed work, felton could only get a two year deal in FA. ironically, over the summer, AR was probably the most appealing young guy on our roster, trade-value-wise.

a lot can change quickly in the NBA. remember when ZBO was untradeable?

if the knicks come out and have a good record and fields, douglas, jerome jordan, etc, are contributing... wouldn't surprise me to see them all go. and it'd be sad. but it's obviously what dolan wants and is angling for.

though if they were already planning for the CP3 trade, surprised they didn't take a reggie jackson or chris singleton at pick 17, just for the trade value. though i think donnie asking MDA who he wanted was donnie's last favor to him on his way out. give the coach his guy before he gets kicked out by the owner. sigh.

We talked about the trade, but it was different because we didn't have all the leaks about Melo wanting to come here. Anyway, regardless, even at the start of last season, compared to now, consider this:

Gallo (last summer) vs. Landry Fields (this summer) - No brainer, Gallo
Wilson Chandler (last summer) vs. Shawne Williams (this summer) - Chandler
Ray Felton (last summer) vs. Toney Douglas (this summer) - Felton
Timofey Mogzov (last summer) vs. Iman Shumpert (this summer) - wash, not enough info about either player at the time
Anthony Randolph vs. Nada
Eddy Curry vs. Chauncey Billups - Perhaps, Billups is included as an expiring contract for salary reasons, edge to Billups, but irrelevant if we're getting CP3 - wash
A bunch of draft picks vs. none - We have no draft picks left to give up, so they won't be included in any deal

There was really nothing else of substance in the trade. By virtue of the fact, that we gave up some assets that could be used in a CP3 deal, the most we can do is Landry, Toney, Shawne, Iman, Billups and $3 million cash for CP3 and some scrubs. That's nowhere near as bad as the Carmelo trade, unfortunately. Furthermore, you have to analyze it differently when you're getting piece 2 of 3 vs. piece 3 of 3.

Solace wrote:

fishmike wrote:I see what Guns sees. If Fields, Shumpert, Williams and Douglas are having a productive year we will definatly gut the roster along w/ Billups expiring for CP3, Ariza and any bad contract we can take on for extra picks going to NO, and why not? This is what we are. Any thoughts of developing prospects left w/ Walsh

If we do, I won't complain too much. There's a far cry between gutting the roster with those players, who may be *good* vs. what we gave up in the Carmelo trade.

And there's also a huge difference between gutting the roster for Carmelo and gutting it for D Howard or CP3.

I say, stay away from big trades. We couldn't do it with Melo but we need to do it now. Sign CP3 in the offseason.

We need to trade for a big.

Nalod wrote:Next big name needs to come as free agent.

We need to trade for a big.

No reason why CP3 should worry about waiting. The only reason we didn't sign Melo as a FA is because of the CBA uncertainty. That will not impact the CP3 signing one bit.

martin wrote:Not sure it's been mentioned enough, but I think David West opting out of his player option for New Orleans will have a down wind effect on CP3 staying/not staying with his team. Good sign for NY.

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:Not sure it's been mentioned enough, but I think David West opting out of his player option for New Orleans will have a down wind effect on CP3 staying/not staying with his team. Good sign for NY.

I feel bad for Monty. He has done a great job there.

don't feel bad for Monty; he HAS done a good job and is getting paid lots of $$$ because of it, and if and when his team falls apart because of ownership and finance issues, know that he will get another big payday with another team very easily because he aced his debut in NO.