Knicks · Nene opting out of contract...man... (page 2)

Nene????? I mean the dude is a lower case Amare. His 14 points and 7 boards at center isn't really a player I think the knicks need at center.

I don't know, I think most of ya'll woul be happier with the thought of almost being good with some 20-26 year old role players then actually being good with some 26-28 year old players. And Cap space I guess, can't forget how being young andcap space worked out for the forgetabulls..........sgh*

martin wrote:

grillco wrote:

martin wrote:Knicks had a 5 day turnaround to pick up Billups' contract, so it's not like they could wait.

The downside to not picking it up was much worse than picking it up.

But I'm saying let him walk and if he's still around when the smoke clears, is interested in NY (at a pay cut) then sign him. The Knicks were not a position of absolutely HAVING to pick up his option. That's why I said "if even at all" in regards to picking up the option.

For all practical purposes, they were in a position of absolutely having to pick up his contract.

If they didn't and he left, what happens? What scrub you signing that would suffice at the PG position?

If CP3 comes up on the market, what player are you trading that would fit the bill?

If another player comes up that the team would want to swap for Billups' expiring, what do you offer?

After 3 years of not having any continuity, can the team really afford another?

If the Knicks turned down Chauncy, and the cap was relatively the same (that's the best assumption we can come up with), the cap number is some where in the $60-62M range? Knicks would come in a ~$52-53M with their signed contracts + cap holds. You have like ~$7-10 to sign a center and a starting PG. And you just lost use of the MLE. And you may lose Chauncy for nothing.

And let's not think you can sign Marc Gasol, Tyson Chandler or Nene, cause they already have starting salaries that can be matched or are greater than what you can offer.

And if you did sign someone, you lose out on CP3, Howard, Deron.

So what's the use?

Also, consider the downside of the cap being < $60M.

The downside is much scarier than any potential pickup that you may have been able to grab.

We'll just have to disagree. I get what you're saying, but I don't agree. It's well thought out and explained, but hasn't changed my mind.

grillco wrote:

martin wrote:

grillco wrote:

martin wrote:Knicks had a 5 day turnaround to pick up Billups' contract, so it's not like they could wait.

The downside to not picking it up was much worse than picking it up.

But I'm saying let him walk and if he's still around when the smoke clears, is interested in NY (at a pay cut) then sign him. The Knicks were not a position of absolutely HAVING to pick up his option. That's why I said "if even at all" in regards to picking up the option.

For all practical purposes, they were in a position of absolutely having to pick up his contract.

If they didn't and he left, what happens? What scrub you signing that would suffice at the PG position?

If CP3 comes up on the market, what player are you trading that would fit the bill?

If another player comes up that the team would want to swap for Billups' expiring, what do you offer?

After 3 years of not having any continuity, can the team really afford another?

If the Knicks turned down Chauncy, and the cap was relatively the same (that's the best assumption we can come up with), the cap number is some where in the $60-62M range? Knicks would come in a ~$52-53M with their signed contracts + cap holds. You have like ~$7-10 to sign a center and a starting PG. And you just lost use of the MLE. And you may lose Chauncy for nothing.

And let's not think you can sign Marc Gasol, Tyson Chandler or Nene, cause they already have starting salaries that can be matched or are greater than what you can offer.

And if you did sign someone, you lose out on CP3, Howard, Deron.

So what's the use?

Also, consider the downside of the cap being < $60M.

The downside is much scarier than any potential pickup that you may have been able to grab.

We'll just have to disagree. I get what you're saying, but I don't agree. It's well thought out and explained, but hasn't changed my mind.

Disagree all you want, but that doesn't really add to the discussion. Make it worth our while:

who are you signing or even targeting in the $7-10M range. PG and/or C.

I'll keep Billups and possibly sign Aaron Gray, Jeff Foster with the MLE.

What's your team?

Martin,

Lets say Denver determines that they are about to lose Nene anyway and wants to get something for him. If Denver is persuaded to trade Nene to the Knicks for Chauncy, does that give the Knicks a better financial situation, then if they simply acquired Nene and released Billups?

rvwink wrote:Martin,

Lets say Denver determines that they are about to lose Nene anyway and wants to get something for him. If Denver is persuaded to trade Nene to the Knicks for Chauncy, does that give the Knicks a better financial situation, then if they simply acquired Nene and released Billups?

all things being equal, Knicks realistically wouldn't be able to acquire Nene off the free market unless he took a paycut.

And if the Knicks did a sign and trade for Nene in a Chauncy swap, they are in the same finaancial situaltion but they would not be in the 2012 market unless it was a in season trade.

We needed Chauncey. Nene was not a guarantee.

Im fine with waiting to see who is available in 2012.

Killa4luv wrote:

grillco wrote:Let me start by saying I like Chauncey. Barring him getting hurt after the team got into a flow and then returning to interrupt a new Billups-less flow, he's a good player and not really part of the problem (although tougher D would have been nice). But I didn't like the Knicks picking up his option so quickly, if even at all. Right now the money they've guaranteed him is gone, so they really have little to no shot at Nene, a real NBA ready starting center. I don't actually want the Knicks to be Denver East, but I'd gladly take Nene and swap he and Billups in a second.

I'm still bummed they didn't keep him when they drafted him. I was at an O's game in Camden and they had the draft on half of the monitors in the concourse around the stadium. Getting McDyess did not excite me at all. Anyway, just thought I'd share.

I was so ecstatic when we drafted Nene. And then when they traded him AND Camby for a Dice fresh off surgery who HADN'T PLAYED 1 GAME YET...I could not understand it. do you know what our frontline wouldve looked like with NeNe & Camby?!?!?!?

It was a sad day for everyone. TMS and I were both chatting that night on AIM and had the same WTF reaction. I am not sure I would've done Camby for McDyess as it was, because tall centers who can block shots are hard to come by and even Camby for McDyess would've left us with no center. Camby and Nene for McDyess was insanity. It was starphucking at its worst.

y2zipper wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Imagine this team:

Raymond Felton / Iman Shumpert
Landry Fields / Toney Douglas
Danilo Gallinari / Wilson Chandler
Amar'e Stoudemire / Anthony Randolph
Nene / Mozgov / Jorts

sigh.

That team's not as good as what we have now.

Not as good at selling jerseys...

crzymdups wrote:Imagine this team:

Raymond Felton / Iman Shumpert
Landry Fields / Toney Douglas
Danilo Gallinari / Wilson Chandler
Amar'e Stoudemire / Anthony Randolph
Nene / Mozgov / Jorts

sigh.

sighing with yah.

martin wrote:

grillco wrote:

martin wrote:

grillco wrote:

martin wrote:Knicks had a 5 day turnaround to pick up Billups' contract, so it's not like they could wait.

The downside to not picking it up was much worse than picking it up.

But I'm saying let him walk and if he's still around when the smoke clears, is interested in NY (at a pay cut) then sign him. The Knicks were not a position of absolutely HAVING to pick up his option. That's why I said "if even at all" in regards to picking up the option.

For all practical purposes, they were in a position of absolutely having to pick up his contract.

If they didn't and he left, what happens? What scrub you signing that would suffice at the PG position?

If CP3 comes up on the market, what player are you trading that would fit the bill?

If another player comes up that the team would want to swap for Billups' expiring, what do you offer?

After 3 years of not having any continuity, can the team really afford another?

If the Knicks turned down Chauncy, and the cap was relatively the same (that's the best assumption we can come up with), the cap number is some where in the $60-62M range? Knicks would come in a ~$52-53M with their signed contracts + cap holds. You have like ~$7-10 to sign a center and a starting PG. And you just lost use of the MLE. And you may lose Chauncy for nothing.

And let's not think you can sign Marc Gasol, Tyson Chandler or Nene, cause they already have starting salaries that can be matched or are greater than what you can offer.

And if you did sign someone, you lose out on CP3, Howard, Deron.

So what's the use?

Also, consider the downside of the cap being < $60M.

The downside is much scarier than any potential pickup that you may have been able to grab.

We'll just have to disagree. I get what you're saying, but I don't agree. It's well thought out and explained, but hasn't changed my mind.

Disagree all you want, but that doesn't really add to the discussion. Make it worth our while:

who are you signing or even targeting in the $7-10M range. PG and/or C.

I'll keep Billups and possibly sign Aaron Gray, Jeff Foster with the MLE.

What's your team?

...intruding...

what's your team? - start iman. sign redd or battier or dalembert or multiple.

if billups breaks down again you will change your tune lol

Solace wrote:

Killa4luv wrote:

grillco wrote:Let me start by saying I like Chauncey. Barring him getting hurt after the team got into a flow and then returning to interrupt a new Billups-less flow, he's a good player and not really part of the problem (although tougher D would have been nice). But I didn't like the Knicks picking up his option so quickly, if even at all. Right now the money they've guaranteed him is gone, so they really have little to no shot at Nene, a real NBA ready starting center. I don't actually want the Knicks to be Denver East, but I'd gladly take Nene and swap he and Billups in a second.

I'm still bummed they didn't keep him when they drafted him. I was at an O's game in Camden and they had the draft on half of the monitors in the concourse around the stadium. Getting McDyess did not excite me at all. Anyway, just thought I'd share.

I was so ecstatic when we drafted Nene. And then when they traded him AND Camby for a Dice fresh off surgery who HADN'T PLAYED 1 GAME YET...I could not understand it. do you know what our frontline wouldve looked like with NeNe & Camby?!?!?!?

It was a sad day for everyone. TMS and I were both chatting that night on AIM and had the same WTF reaction. I am not sure I would've done Camby for McDyess as it was, because tall centers who can block shots are hard to come by and even Camby for McDyess would've left us with no center. Camby and Nene for McDyess was insanity. It was starphucking at its worst.

McDyess wasn't even a real star - it was just pure stupidity from the worst GM in franchise history. Isiah was bad an may be the second workst, but Layden should never set foot in NY again after making a trade like that.

Set us back a decade.

I remember Camby was hurt almost every year after that Finals run. He also was hurt quite a bit before that. We had high hopes for him and the Knicks with Spree and Houston resigned
but we were basically a 1999 half a season fluke. We made the playoffs 1 or 2 more years and was downhill from there.

McDyess put some pretty sick numbers in Denver and Phoenix. I remember he also put some sick numbers in preseason too. He was also coming back from a big injury.
While I can see why he wanted to trade Camby, I don't think anyone liked that trade for even during that time. Some of us actually liked Nene and Stat was picked after him too.
Its easy to say now, after we see how they developed.

I can see if they were trading filler + Nene or the pick for McDyess but Camby + a pick left us with no center with Kurt Thomas who has no hops and shot blocking.
I can even see a Camby or just the pick for McDyess but never both of them for McDyess. It surely was starphucking.

for the price we payed for the Melo trade. no doubt in my mind, we should have acquired Nene in the deal as well. Whether we resigned sign him or not in the summer, we could have
used Nene for our playoff run.

Raymond Felton / Iman Shumpert
Landry Fields / Toney Douglas
Danilo Gallinari / Wilson Chandler
Amar'e Stoudemire / Anthony Randolph
Nene / Mozgov / Jerome Jordan/ Jorts

This team looks like it can be a similar to Dallas but in the East.