Knicks · Star (page 1)

I just read an article written by the witty Bill Simmons where he stretches outside the sporting world and discusses Movie stars http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6716.... Got me thinking.

Im not sure all would agree but we really don't have that many stars in sports and in the NBA we have just a few. We got Kobe, Lebron, D3, CP3, Dwight, Dirk and up until recently Shaq.

I say stars in the vein of "who would you pay to go see"? Not, "Who is the best players".

Maybe even guys that can carry a team for a long stretch.

THe NBA makes stars. Can Durant, Melo, Amare, Iggy, or bosh actually carry a so-so team to the playoffs like Lebron has done? Or Kobe? Nope. If the NBA marketing machine keeps telling us Melo is a star do we start believing it? Iggy is not star, but he is paid like one. Philly promotes him as one.

This article discussing Ryan Reynolds vs. Will Smith reminds me of "melo vs Lebron" in a way. Say what you want about Lebrons object failure of reaching the finals. He still reached the finals.

Like sports there are ways to make great movies even without stars. A cast of good actors with a great story, a great script and well directed can be a great movie. NBA (Larrys Pistons)achieved this a few years ago.

This is my point about perhaps making great teams instead of trying to promote "stars".

Watching the recent documentary "on the shoulders of greatness" about the NY Rens it was pretty clear that back in the day you had great players and stars but they were born from the Team game. But the game came first and then the team. Basketball was about passing, passing and more passing. Im not saying the game was better or worse but fans gravitated to it because of the harmonious movement and rhythm it produced. Today that kind of basketball is called the WNBA.

Maybe the Mav's actually did things the right way. Its "star" player Dirk stepped up and did his job and thus was thrusted into the true "Stardom" by actually taking over the game when a star is suppose to and got the job done.
The ensemble performance of the Mav's created the Star.

When thinking of Melo, he had his big stage in the NCAA finals and delivered a great performance. Since then, he has demonstrated pretty much good production each year but really can't carry a franchise on his back. We elevated his status in NY.

Im not saying he can't fit in to an ensemble of players and produce in a team concept, Im just not sure thats what he wants, or for that matter what the team wants. They wants Stars. We want stars.

Phuch!

What I don't get is the constant negativity about what Melo isn't and what he can't do or what he didn't accomplish...One thing we know is he is a very good player...The trade doesn't guarantee rings...It put in place a big piece we might need to get there..We didn't have those pieces beforehand...Melo led his team in Denver to 7 consecutive 50 win seasons in a tough Western Division...Kobe never won 50 games without another big player next to him...It takes more than one player to win it all...Is he a winner, I think he is...He won in college...He wants the stage...He begged to be here...He isn't shy or a stupid guy...He knows what it's going to take...Bron didn't want this stage...Melo stepped up in the playoffs and showed why we traded for him...I don't think Bron gets to the Championship game with Cleveland playing in the West...

Cut the guy some slack and give him a chance...Was Gallo really that great a player...Isn't losing Gallo what all these threads are about...We needed someone who can carry a team on most night to help STAT out...STAT couldn't carry us a full season, he broke down....Gallo isn't at that stage in his career..Not sure if he can get there...STAT I think have a small window...I'm not about watching players develop to feel good about myself and team while winning only 30/40 games...I want to see the team compete...The Knicks will be better this coming year than it was last year...Give Melo a chance...We need the right point to run the pick and roll to see how good we can really be...Two studs like Melo and STAT are going to give most teams headaches night in and night out...Our defense needs to get better..Our coach needs to get better...We didn't have a chance but our coach sucked in the playoffs...

This team has to play defense..Our "stars" has to play defense, Our coach needs to coach defense...Melo and STAT will do damage with the right pieces around them...I hope Gallo gets better...Simmons said in one of his columns after the playoffs that Gallo will help a team one day...I hope so...But we need help now...STAT isn't guaranteed to play at this level for too much longer...Melo is here now..Miami and Chicago will be back stronger next year...So will we...It's time to resolve the lockout and get balling...I can't wait...

I said this before, stars in the NBA is a blessing and a curse.... Yea, people come out in bunches to see kobe and lebron, but what about the other teams that don't have stars? the teams that accept being bad in hopes of one day landing a star in the draft? how does that help the NBA..

The NFL got it right, they market stars, but they market teams just as much... this is why teams like the patriots are on TV every weekend... even take out brady and people still pay to watch the pats play.... teams like the jets and ravens defenses are marketed, offenses like the charges are marketed... you see the NFL market teams heavily..

holfresh wrote:What I don't get is the constant negativity about what Melo isn't and what he can't do or what he didn't accomplish...One thing we know is he is a very good player...The trade doesn't guarantee rings...It put in place a big piece we might need to get there..We didn't have those pieces beforehand...Melo led his team in Denver to 7 consecutive 50 win seasons in a tough Western Division...Kobe never won 50 games without another big player next to him...It takes more than one player to win it all...Is he a winner, I think he is...He won in college...He wants the stage...He begged to be here...He isn't shy or a stupid guy...He knows what it's going to take...Bron didn't want this stage...Melo stepped up in the playoffs and showed why we traded for him...I don't think Bron gets to the Championship game with Cleveland playing in the West...

Cut the guy some slack and give him a chance...Was Gallo really that great a player...Isn't losing Gallo what all these threads are about...We needed someone who can carry a team on most night to help STAT out...STAT couldn't carry us a full season, he broke down....Gallo isn't at that stage in his career..Not sure if he can get there...STAT I think have a small window...I'm not about watching players develop to feel good about myself and team while winning only 30/40 games...I want to see the team compete...The Knicks will be better this coming year than it was last year...Give Melo a chance...We need the right point to run the pick and roll to see how good we can really be...Two studs like Melo and STAT are going to give most teams headaches night in and night out...Our defense needs to get better..Our coach needs to get better...We didn't have a chance but our coach sucked in the playoffs...

This team has to play defense..Our "stars" has to play defense, Our coach needs to coach defense...Melo and STAT will do damage with the right pieces around them...I hope Gallo gets better...Simmons said in one of his columns after the playoffs that Gallo will help a team one day...I hope so...But we need help now...STAT isn't guaranteed to play at this level for too much longer...Melo is here now..Miami and Chicago will be back stronger next year...So will we...It's time to resolve the lockout and get balling...I can't wait...

Im talking about team first, stars second.

My point. we are treating Melo elite and he has yet to earn that status.

Much like many other players in the league. We create elite status, then measure them up.

Same for many other players.

Stat and Melo can are great players. They can create their own stardom.

BTW, I thought Denver had some very good talent in Melo's years there. Bone head talent. Melo as "leading" is a stretch. Good roster and a good coach.

Im not slamming him. The records speak for themselves. Melo A fan favorite. Melo voted to start All star game. First Team all pro? second? Third? Nope. MVP?

A star in the fans eyes.

Not that it matters..He was second all NBA last year..3X third team..

I really don't care about what the "technical" status of Melo is. I think we already know that Melo and STAT are very good players, but not on the mount olympus of great players. In effect if we win it will be due to GREAT TEAMWORK, coach included. Although I was pleased with the leadership shown by STAT and Melo made changes in his game for the sake of the team, we're not looking for Melo to be the supreme leader that drags this team to a championship. I think that was made clear by the fact that they never said the team was done. There's been an effort to look for more talent to make the TEAM complete. PG and C was the main thrust of the continued effort to improve the team. So right now there's no effort by the Knicks to make STAT or Melo into something they're not. They're leaders on the team, but it's clear that they too need help and that's what the Knicks are doing.

The thing is you must have top tier talent in order to compete for a title. It's harder to try and build a team without some top tier players. I'm extremely happy with what the Knicks have done so far. This team has jumped several levels in one year and now has more of a chance to get to the elite level than it did before. This isn't a Star****. Melo and STAT are top tier scorers which at least gives this team an edge in most games, provided we surround them with very good defensive players and role players that can support them. I think that if STAT doesn't have to go against C's and can keep his minutes within reason, we'd see a better effort from him. Melo raised his level on defense a great deal and I think he'll be much better all around going forward. If and when we find a defensive C that can anchor the D that's going to raise the entire team to another level. Add a PG that can setup our scorers and that makes us even tougher to defend. We didn't have either last year and that was a huge problem.

Stars for stars sake is dumb but adding players that can give the team an edge is smart.

Anybody read the article?

Im relating the creation of stars to actual performance thru out the league. Not just another discussion about the Melo Trade!

I like the Lebron/Will Smith comparison. And I'm surprised he'd turn down Tarantino. Kinda like Lebron in the finals, I guess.

At the end of the day both industries is about making money, and in Hollywood's case, big names sell. Same goes for the NBA - the names sell. I don't like how the NBA marketing has gotten to the point of "LeBron vs. Kobe" or individual X vs individual Y. But that's how it is right now. It's not as much about the team anymore as it is about the stars. And I think people generally recognize this at some degree - something Durant's popularity is a testament to, as well as Dallas being praised for winning with a solid team cast, against the starstudded Heat.

Nice article. To me, Melo isn't Will Smith... Melo never had a 'breakthrough performance'. He never had a 'six degrees of separation' where he displays the full range of skills that makes a ball player great.

Melo = Ryan Reynolds (minus the likability). They are marketed as superstars but their teams/movies don't really do well when it matters (playoff runs/critical acclaim).

Will Smith = Lebron James. Both have the ability, but neither are truly great. Both because they don't take risks, they don't stretch themselves, they don't put themselves in situations where they are fully reliant on all their skills to be successful. But you can sure make tons of money off of them.

I just think about Dark Knight...
One may not be a star but suddenly all stars will like up... Stage, team, even death... and here comes the greateness.
You never know...

arkrud wrote:I just think about Dark Knight...
One may not be a star but suddenly all stars will like up... Stage, team, even death... and here comes the greateness.
You never know...

Yes, stars can be born from out of a good roster! Bill Russell was a star because he won 8 titles in 11 years, 2 NCAA championships with San Fran.

Wilt was a star from his statistics....

We now anoint stardom to potential.

holfresh wrote:I can't wait...

Cosign to the fullest.

Bart Scott voice...............Can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

holfresh wrote:Not that it matters..He was second all NBA last year..3X third team..

It doesn't, it's a rant about anything Melo hasn't done. How is Cp3 and Deron Williams Stars??? I don't see any Mvp's or NBA finals out of them, yet they have done something??? LOL

By what standard are you claiming Deron Williams and Chris Paul are stars but Melo, Amare, and Durant aren't? And would you have considered Dirk a star before he won the championship this year?

VCoug wrote:By what standard are you claiming Deron Williams and Chris Paul are stars but Melo, Amare, and Durant aren't? And would you have considered Dirk a star before he won the championship this year?

Dirk has been to the finals and has won an MVP. Pretty good cred.

CP3 might be a stretch. Actually I like Deron better but perhaps neither is in that elite status except.

So perhaps one can lope him in with Amare, Melo and Durant. Maybe CP3 being a point guard and not flakey in nature as melo has been .

Melo has matured.

CP3 and Durant have had good images their entire career. Very mature even early.

Dirk winning an MVP and championship over a long career where at age 32 is still in prime has elevated into elite status.

VCoug wrote:By what standard are you claiming Deron Williams and Chris Paul are stars but Melo, Amare, and Durant aren't? And would you have considered Dirk a star before he won the championship this year?

Pretty sure all of those guys except Melo have gotten past the first round. And Melo's team was by no means weak. Chris Paul's teams were pretty awful.

But it's not just playoff advances. If you watch Melo's game and compare it to say, Chris Paul, it's clear who makes their teammates better and who doesn't.

Nalod wrote:

VCoug wrote:By what standard are you claiming Deron Williams and Chris Paul are stars but Melo, Amare, and Durant aren't? And would you have considered Dirk a star before he won the championship this year?

Dirk has been to the finals and has won an MVP. Pretty good cred.

CP3 might be a stretch. Actually I like Deron better but perhaps neither is in that elite status except.

So perhaps one can lope him in with Amare, Melo and Durant. Maybe CP3 being a point guard and not flakey in nature as melo has been .

Melo has matured.

CP3 and Durant have had good images their entire career. Very mature even early.

Dirk winning an MVP and championship over a long career where at age 32 is still in prime has elevated into elite status.

Huge stretches. Come on man, you are better than that.

Melo removed the Syracuse jinx. Any new yorker appreciates that much stardom.

knickstorrents wrote:

VCoug wrote:By what standard are you claiming Deron Williams and Chris Paul are stars but Melo, Amare, and Durant aren't? And would you have considered Dirk a star before he won the championship this year?

Pretty sure all of those guys except Melo have gotten past the first round. And Melo's team was by no means weak. Chris Paul's teams were pretty awful.

But it's not just playoff advances. If you watch Melo's game and compare it to say, Chris Paul, it's clear who makes their teammates better and who doesn't.

Melo has gotten just as far in the playoffs as Deron and CP3 btw.

And Melo's qualities doesn't lie in playing point, it's in him being a bonafide scorer with a vast variety of offensive skills and, if playing well, an unstoppable force offensively.

Defensively we all know he's not that encouraging, but I'm hopeful it's his effort, and that he'll eventually get inspired.

I agree that CP3 is better at getting the team to play as a team, but Melo's qualities isn't unappreciated either.