Off Topic · Spoiler Alert - A Song of Ice and Fire - Discussion on Martin's novels to date (page 10)

Markji wrote:Spoiler
Did anyone else catch the foreshadowing from the HBO series episode 8. It was well done. Littlefinger tell Robin Arryn to tour his lands, the Vale. Robbin replied that it was dangerous. Litttlefinger beautifully explained that people die everywhere, and lists a few places including "while squatting on a chamberpot". Ha. We should see this in episode 10.

Did the chamberpot scene change your thinking one way or the other regarding the T
" Tyrion is a secret Targ theory."

I'm thinking HBO could maybe go in this direction if they decide to cast Penny.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Markji wrote:Spoiler
Did anyone else catch the foreshadowing from the HBO series episode 8. It was well done. Littlefinger tell Robin Arryn to tour his lands, the Vale. Robbin replied that it was dangerous. Litttlefinger beautifully explained that people die everywhere, and lists a few places including "while squatting on a chamberpot". Ha. We should see this in episode 10.

Did the chamberpot scene change your thinking one way or the other regarding the T
" Tyrion is a secret Targ theory."

Yes and No.
Yes, from the HBO series it is very difficult to promote that Tyrion is a Targ. They said over and over that Tyrion was Tywin's son. So it seems that Tywin is his father.
No - from the books it still seems to me that Tyrion is the Mad King's son. And the HBO series does change some things...So I eagerly await Book 6 and maybe get some closure on this.

BigDaddyG wrote:I just want to go record as saying that Jojen paste is still on the table.

Spoiler for the HBO Series
Yes, I agree especially since Jojen dies in episode 10. That was a Big surprise to me.

Markji wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I just want to go record as saying that Jojen paste is still on the table.

Spoiler for the HBO Series
Yes, I agree especially since Jojen dies in episode 10. That was a Big surprise to me.

Didn't Leaf incinerate ShowJen? Will be kinda hard to make the paste. Or are you saying killing him in the show portends that book Jojen isn't that important and may already be dead, hence the JojenPaste.

Markji wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I just want to go record as saying that Jojen paste is still on the table.

Spoiler for the HBO Series
Yes, I agree especially since Jojen dies in episode 10. That was a Big surprise to me.

I was thinking that up until the fire bomb burned jojen's body.

Markji wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Markji wrote:Spoiler
Did anyone else catch the foreshadowing from the HBO series episode 8. It was well done. Littlefinger tell Robin Arryn to tour his lands, the Vale. Robbin replied that it was dangerous. Litttlefinger beautifully explained that people die everywhere, and lists a few places including "while squatting on a chamberpot". Ha. We should see this in episode 10.

Did the chamberpot scene change your thinking one way or the other regarding the T
" Tyrion is a secret Targ theory."

Yes and No.
Yes, from the HBO series it is very difficult to promote that Tyrion is a Targ. They said over and over that Tyrion was Tywin's son. So it seems that Tywin is his father.
No - from the books it still seems to me that Tyrion is the Mad King's son. And the HBO series does change some things...So I eagerly await Book 6 and maybe get some closure on this.

I honestly think Tywin was just talking crap because Tyrion had a crossbow. It's like the show makes it clear Jon is Ned stark's bastard but that doesn't cancel out the theories of his lineage. People see only what they want to see at times.

H1AND1 wrote:

Markji wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I just want to go record as saying that Jojen paste is still on the table.

Spoiler for the HBO Series
Yes, I agree especially since Jojen dies in episode 10. That was a Big surprise to me.

Didn't Leaf incinerate ShowJen? Will be kinda hard to make the paste. Or are you saying killing him in the show portends that book Jojen isn't that important and may already be dead, hence the JojenPaste.

Yes...the latter.

Just finished "The Rogue Prince, or The King's Brother." I wouldn't call it a must read and I would suggest reading the "Dunk and Egg" novellas and "The Princess and the Queen" first. The Rogue Prince chronicles some of the exploits of Daemon Targaryan, perhaps the biggest bad ass from the Targaryen dynasty not named Aegon the Conqueror, Rhaenys or Visenya. It also provides a few details on the animosity that existed in the years leading to the first dance of dragons. It's awesome in that it expands upon the world of Fire and Ice. But it is short and reads very much like a Wikipedia entry, save for a few humorous and salacious accounts from court fool who serves as witness for some of the events. Looking forward to the release of a World of Fire and Ice, but I kind of wish GRRM would focus more on finishing the series and less on these side projects.

BigDaddyG wrote:Just finished "The Rogue Prince, or The King's Brother." I wouldn't call it a must read and I would suggest reading the "Dunk and Egg" novellas and "The Princess and the Queen" first. The Rogue Prince chronicles some of the exploits of Daemon Targaryan, perhaps the biggest bad ass from the Targaryen dynasty not named Aegon the Conqueror, Rhaenys or Visenya. It also provides a few details on the animosity that existed in the years leading to the first dance of dragons. It's awesome in that it expands upon the world of Fire and Ice. But it is short and reads very much like a Wikipedia entry, save for a few humorous and salacious accounts from court fool who serves as witness for some of the events. Looking forward to the release of a World of Fire and Ice, but I kind of wish GRRM would focus more on finishing the series and less on these side projects.

Yeah, I am about to read it but haven't yet. Apparently a couple years back GRRM decided to write some fake history for A World of Ice and Fire and ended up with something ridiculous like 250,000 words. So most of that actually had to be cut from A World of...and will be released after the regular book series is complete (god knows then) as a standalone book called Fire and Blood. I guess the bulk of it is the history from Aegon to present. Within that is a longer version of Princess and the Queen, which is almost double what was released in the Dangerous Women anthology. Crazy.

I think TWOW has to be released sometime in 2015 if he has any hope of the books not getting surpassed by the show. Hopefully GRRM realizes this, too and on top of that becomes determined to not have his magnum opus to be spoiled by the show.

I think Tyrion is a Targ is a red herring thrown in by GRRM, but I still think Tyrion will be one of the most important people to Dany's plot aas he's the most well read man in the entire kingdom with regards to dragons, and is one of the best strategists as seen by his orchestration of the defense in the Blackwater etc.- I think that's why Varys and Illyrio have tried to send him out in support of the cause.

BigDaddyG wrote:I just want to go record as saying that Jojen paste is still on the table.

Still seems too morbid too me- well at least we now know its too morbid for TV, but maybe not for the books. Still was weird seeing Jojen killed off at this point where we're not even sure he's head in the novels, and if he is, its totally offscreen.

As a whole that scene was incredibly week. Very strange looking CGI with the Jason and the Argonauts...the Children of the Forest shooting fireballs. Jojen just lying there getting repeatedly stabbed. WTF was going on there? Possibly the worst exectued scene of the series.

If I'm watching on TV I'm thinking, who the fuck is treebeard showing up here too, and why is Bran all smiling thinking he's gonna walk again when Jojen was brutally killed like 75 seconds ago.

They really flubbed the Bran storyline quite a bit- you learn an awful lot of the history of Westeros and the history of the Starks and the North through his conversations with Old Nan, Luwin, Osha, Jojen and Meera etc. We're into season 4 and I think TV viewers probably don't even know who Rhaegar Targaryan and Lyanna Stark are, much less are they read to meet Bloodraven! The whole thing was way too rushed. Why not use Coldhands. I think given that the Books are so slow to come out at this point there was no reason to rush plotlines beyond Storm of Swords in this season of the series, yet the jumped into Book 5 territory anyway and did so without some sorely needed background.

In general I think the show has a done a great job adapting the material, but I don't think these writers and producers should be responsible for moving forward the storyline that has been so carefully plotted out by GRRM as they clearly have a weakness when it comes to the nuances - like the lore and history of Westeros, the whole idea of magic etc.

One thing that didn't make sense is that if you know the attack was coming why the heck did you wait send the children of the forest. I get Jojen okay with meeting his death but come on 3-eye you can't help my friend when you already seen what's coming?

Stupid question, but is there an easy way I can buy the Dunk and Egg Novellas or do I literally have to buy all those anthologies?

VDesai wrote:Stupid question, but is there an easy way I can buy the Dunk and Egg Novellas or do I literally have to buy all those anthologies?

The Hedge Knight and Sworn Sword are available as graphic novels if you want to go that route.

You guys ever hear about this theory of "The Dornish Master Plan." There's a series of videoes on youtube that go into detail- one reader's theory and I don't buy all of it, but its very interesting. Essentially if you take Doran's plans on the surface they seem very unsuccesful and shortsighted. But this reader argues that there's quite a bit more too it. Among the thoughts are that several sellsword companies, namely the Brave Companions and the Second Sons, have actually been hired by Dorne. The Dornish master plan would ultimately result in them getting a dragon, eliminating the Lannisters and conquering the 7 kingdoms.

VDesai wrote:You guys ever hear about this theory of "The Dornish Master Plan." There's a series of videoes on youtube that go into detail- one reader's theory and I don't buy all of it, but its very interesting. Essentially if you take Doran's plans on the surface they seem very unsuccesful and shortsighted. But this reader argues that there's quite a bit more too it. Among the thoughts are that several sellsword companies, namely the Brave Companions and the Second Sons, have actually been hired by Dorne. The Dornish master plan would ultimately result in them getting a dragon, eliminating the Lannisters and conquering the 7 kingdoms.

I'll have to check it out. It's hard for me to believe that Doran has plotted all these years just to have every single plan fail. I'm still curios what Alleras end game is at the Citadel as well. Dragon taming books?

BigDaddyG wrote:

VDesai wrote:You guys ever hear about this theory of "The Dornish Master Plan." There's a series of videoes on youtube that go into detail- one reader's theory and I don't buy all of it, but its very interesting. Essentially if you take Doran's plans on the surface they seem very unsuccesful and shortsighted. But this reader argues that there's quite a bit more too it. Among the thoughts are that several sellsword companies, namely the Brave Companions and the Second Sons, have actually been hired by Dorne. The Dornish master plan would ultimately result in them getting a dragon, eliminating the Lannisters and conquering the 7 kingdoms.

I'll have to check it out. It's hard for me to believe that Doran has plotted all these years just to have every single plan fail. I'm still curios what Alleras end game is at the Citadel as well. Dragon taming books?

Alleras will be with Sam. Hopefully that will speed up Sam's education. Alleras' father, Prince Oberyn, also studied at the Citadel for some time so there is some family precedent.

I've never heard of The Dornish MAster Plan but anything is possible with GRRM.

BigDaddyG wrote:

VDesai wrote:Stupid question, but is there an easy way I can buy the Dunk and Egg Novellas or do I literally have to buy all those anthologies?

The Hedge Knight and Sworn Sword are available as graphic novels if you want to go that route.

The Hedge Knight on Amazon as a graphic novel. If you click on the link to open and read some pages, it seems like you will get most of the book.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Hedge-Knight-G...

Looks like the Graphic Novel might differ some from the stories if the reviews are to be believed. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and get the story collections.

Here some links to the Dornish master plan videos. I don't believe in all his theories, but some of this is pretty interesting for sure. Same guy has a couple of good videos about the pink letter as well.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

VDesai wrote:Looks like the Graphic Novel might differ some from the stories if the reviews are to be believed. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and get the story collections.

Here some links to the Dornish master plan videos. I don't believe in all his theories, but some of this is pretty interesting for sure. Same guy has a couple of good videos about the pink letter as well.

I like the pink letter theory, but I'm convinced that Quentyn is D-E-A-D. I do believe something else is afoot with the Dornish tho.