Off Topic · Spoiler Alert - A Song of Ice and Fire - Discussion on Martin's novels to date (page 6)

I always assumed that ice dragon referred to Jon Stark, who is possibly half Stark and half Targ. His awakening may come after the events in Dance.

BigDaddyG wrote:I always assumed that ice dragon referred to Jon Stark, who is possibly half Stark and half Targ. His awakening may come after the events in Dance.

Could be Jon, but I don't think so. Jon is 1/2 Targ means he is half fire and being 1/2 Stark, means 1/2 Ice. The ice dragon, IMO, has to be all ice.
If we want to consider a person as the ice dragon, then perhaps Bran....or that Bran will tame or warg into the ice dragon. Not enough clues to really know.

Interesting interview with GRRM. More on Rhaegar but not until book 7. Uh! Another decade.

Markji wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I always assumed that ice dragon referred to Jon Stark, who is possibly half Stark and half Targ. His awakening may come after the events in Dance.

Could be Jon, but I don't think so. Jon is 1/2 Targ means he is half fire and being 1/2 Stark, means 1/2 Ice. The ice dragon, IMO, has to be all ice.
If we want to consider a person as the ice dragon, then perhaps Bran....or that Bran will tame or warg into the ice dragon. Not enough clues to really know.

Interesting interview with GRRM. More on Rhaegar but not until book 7. Uh! Another decade.

Depends on how you look at it. I associate Targs with dragons and Starks with the north. Ice Dragon could simply mean dragon from teh north. If Melisandre resurrects Jon in the same way that Thoros of Myr resurrected Cat, Jon could assume many of those crueler aspects to his personality that have been attributed to the Ice Dragon in those earlier references. Those who are 'kissed' by the fire god seem to take on a more vengeful personality. I also think Bran is a strong possibility given warging abilities and three-eyes claims that Bran will fly. GRRM says he plans to warp all this up in two books. I don't see how that's possible at this point with all these dangling plot points.

A new chapter posted for book 6, A Dance With Dragons whoops - edited - The Winds of Winter.
Maybe all of that tedious Dorne background will bear fruit.

Arianne
http://georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html...

Markji wrote:A new chapter posted for book 6, A Dance With Dragons whoops - edited - The Winds of Winter.
Maybe all of that tedious Dorne background will bear fruit.

Arianne
http://georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html...

Interesting read. It looks Teora probably has green dreams. I'm hoping her dream means we're looking a quick end to the war. I wonder who's leading those other ships? Aurane Waters? Euron or Victarion Greyjoy? Anyhow, it's clear to me that Arianne is in over her head, just like her brother.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Markji wrote:A new chapter posted for book 6, A Dance With Dragons whoops - edited - The Winds of Winter.
Maybe all of that tedious Dorne background will bear fruit.

Arianne
http://georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html...

Interesting read. It looks Teora probably has green dreams. I'm hoping her dream means we're looking a quick end to the war. I wonder who's leading those other ships? Aurane Waters? Euron or Victarion Greyjoy? Anyhow, it's clear to me that Arianne is in over her head, just like her brother.

I think the war(s) will last 2 more books. Teora definitely has green dreams - she could be seeing Danaerys' dragons or just the dragon banner carried with Jon Connington and Aegon(if its really Aegon which I doubt???)I think lots of fighting ahead.

The pirate king could be Aurane Waters or perhaps Salador Saan. The 3 decked warship - I'd have to try to find that but it could be the main warship that they were building in Kings Landing that Aurane Waters disappeared with? It looks like chaos and anarchy are rising throughout the entirty of Westeros.

Markji wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Markji wrote:A new chapter posted for book 6, A Dance With Dragons whoops - edited - The Winds of Winter.
Maybe all of that tedious Dorne background will bear fruit.

Arianne
http://georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html...

Interesting read. It looks Teora probably has green dreams. I'm hoping her dream means we're looking a quick end to the war. I wonder who's leading those other ships? Aurane Waters? Euron or Victarion Greyjoy? Anyhow, it's clear to me that Arianne is in over her head, just like her brother.

I think the war(s) will last 2 more books. Teora definitely has green dreams - she could be seeing Danaerys' dragons or just the dragon banner carried with Jon Connington and Aegon(if its really Aegon which I doubt???)I think lots of fighting ahead.

The pirate king could be Aurane Waters or perhaps Salador Saan. The 3 decked warship - I'd have to try to find that but it could be the main warship that they were building in Kings Landing that Aurane Waters disappeared with? It looks like chaos and anarchy are rising throughout the entirty of Westeros.

Aaahhh, chaos.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Markji wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Markji wrote:A new chapter posted for book 6, A Dance With Dragons whoops - edited - The Winds of Winter.
Maybe all of that tedious Dorne background will bear fruit.

Arianne
http://georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html...

Interesting read. It looks Teora probably has green dreams. I'm hoping her dream means we're looking a quick end to the war. I wonder who's leading those other ships? Aurane Waters? Euron or Victarion Greyjoy? Anyhow, it's clear to me that Arianne is in over her head, just like her brother.

I think the war(s) will last 2 more books. Teora definitely has green dreams - she could be seeing Daenarys' dragons or just the dragon banner carried with Jon Connington and Aegon(if its really Aegon which I doubt???)I think lots of fighting ahead.

The pirate king could be Aurane Waters or perhaps Salador Saan. The 3 decked warship - I'd have to try to find that but it could be the main warship that they were building in Kings Landing that Aurane Waters disappeared with? It looks like chaos and anarchy are rising throughout the entirety of Westeros.

Aaahhh, chaos.

Wow. Excellent preview trailor. I am really looking forward to the start of Season 3.

Perhaps post this clip on the other thread for the HBO series so those who haven't read the books can see it.

I want to watch the trailer but yet I want to go in blind even though I read all the books and samples. I even read Dunk? and egg.

yellowboy90 wrote:I want to watch the trailer but yet I want to go in blind even though I read all the books and samples. I even read Dunk? and egg.

Egg-celent! The books are great.
Actually the trailer doesn't have scenes from season 3. So you won't see any previews. What it is, is a tremendous promo-spot which excites the lovers of the series first 2 seasons to want to continue watching.

Markji wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I want to watch the trailer but yet I want to go in blind even though I read all the books and samples. I even read Dunk? and egg.

Egg-celent! The books are great.
Actually the trailer doesn't have scenes from season 3. So you won't see any previews. What it is, is a tremendous promo-spot which excites the lovers of the series first 2 seasons to want to continue watching.

Cool.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Markji wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I want to watch the trailer but yet I want to go in blind even though I read all the books and samples. I even read Dunk? and egg.

Egg-celent! The books are great.
Actually the trailer doesn't have scenes from season 3. So you won't see any previews. What it is, is a tremendous promo-spot which excites the lovers of the series first 2 seasons to want to continue watching.

Cool.

Yeah. The Dunk and Egg tales are more upbeat. There are still some screwed up things that happen, but the main characters are easy to root for. They're genuinely good guys trying to do heroic deeds in brutal world. Dunk is kind of dumber, less skilled version of Sir Arthur Dayne.

New Season 3 trailer. Yellowboy, this one does have scenes from Season 3, so you are warned. Watch if you like.

Note: This video has been up for less than 2 days and there are already 4.8 million views. That's specular. This show is popular all over the world.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Markji wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:I always assumed that ice dragon referred to Jon Stark, who is possibly half Stark and half Targ. His awakening may come after the events in Dance.

Could be Jon, but I don't think so. Jon is 1/2 Targ means he is half fire and being 1/2 Stark, means 1/2 Ice. The ice dragon, IMO, has to be all ice.
If we want to consider a person as the ice dragon, then perhaps Bran....or that Bran will tame or warg into the ice dragon. Not enough clues to really know.

Interesting interview with GRRM. More on Rhaegar but not until book 7. Uh! Another decade.

Depends on how you look at it. I associate Targs with dragons and Starks with the north. Ice Dragon could simply mean dragon from teh north. If Melisandre resurrects Jon in the same way that Thoros of Myr resurrected Cat, Jon could assume many of those crueler aspects to his personality that have been attributed to the Ice Dragon in those earlier references. Those who are 'kissed' by the fire god seem to take on a more vengeful personality. I also think Bran is a strong possibility given warging abilities and three-eyes claims that Bran will fly. GRRM says he plans to warp all this up in two books. I don't see how that's possible at this point with all these dangling plot points.

Re-reading this thread as the premier of Season 3 is approaching, I am coming over to your way of thinking, or the possibility of it. The Targs are called "dragons", even though in reality they are humans, but dragon is their house symbol and weapon. So Jon could be The Ice Dragon, sort of like Bruce Lee is called "The Dragon".

Markji wrote:New Season 3 trailer. Yellowboy, this one does have scenes from Season 3, so you are warned. Watch if you like.

Note: This video has been up for less than 2 days and there are already 4.8 million views. That's specular. This show is popular all over the world.

Oh, oh...things didn't look too good for Theon in that clip. Season 3 isn't for the squeamish.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Markji wrote:New Season 3 trailer. Yellowboy, this one does have scenes from Season 3, so you are warned. Watch if you like.

Note: This video has been up for less than 2 days and there are already 4.8 million views. That's specular. This show is popular all over the world.

Oh, oh...things didn't look too good for Theon in that clip. Season 3 isn't for the squeamish.

why tease me. lol. I will now watch season 3 and see if I am amped enough to go ahead and watch the trailer. Also, Why does he take his time writing the books. If I would have known that I would have taken my time reading each book. lol.

yellowboy90 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Markji wrote:New Season 3 trailer. Yellowboy, this one does have scenes from Season 3, so you are warned. Watch if you like.

Note: This video has been up for less than 2 days and there are already 4.8 million views. That's specular. This show is popular all over the world.

Oh, oh...things didn't look too good for Theon in that clip. Season 3 isn't for the squeamish.

why tease me. lol. I will now watch season 3 and see if I am amped enough to go ahead and watch the trailer. Also, Why does he take his time writing the books. If I would have known that I would have taken my time reading each book. lol.

Yellowboy - you're 1 in 12.6 million - that's how many people have watched the trailer in less than 4 days. The studio obviously puts out the trailer to get people "amped up". # of views of people watching the show = more $$$. And the trailers are fun to watch. Sort of like watching pre-season games.

Since you've read the books you know what's coming. I think most people who are watching the show and who have NOT read the books , are in for some more major shocks.
George RR Martin doesn't think (or write) like any other novelist. He is not held to what "should" happen and he doesn't play up to the big shots in Hollywood or TV. He tells the story as he sees it.
Valar Morghulis!

GRRM writes at his own pace. The biggest complaint against him is the long length of time between novels. It took me almost 5 years before I started reading the books. I had told my friends who were reading the series, that I would start them when the 4th book was about to be released. That was fall, 2005. Then I read the first 4 books in a row. I was totally hooked after the first book. Since then only 1 more novel. It's hard to wait. I want more. The HBO show sort of fulfills this desire to some extent.

Markji wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Yeah, I don't buy the Tyrion being half Targ theory. I think Tywin would have had the Imp killed a long time ago if that wad the case.

Would do you think of the theory that Jojen was Bran food? I don't buy it, but some compelling arguments have been made. I don't understand what u are saying here???

Why Tyrion might be half Targ. Numerous hints. First is thru Jon's eyes as he sees the 3 Lannister siblings and their children for the first time at the Great Hall in Winterfell (Book 1).

Cersei: She was as beautiful as men said. A jeweled tiara gleamed amidst her long golden hair, its emeralds a perfect match for the green of her eyes.
Myrcella: a cascade of golden curls
Joffrey: Joffrey had his sister's hair and his mother's deep green eyes. A thick tangle of blond curls
Jaime: tall and golden, with flashing green eyes

Now Tyrion
dwarf, half his brother's height, ....One green eye and one black one peered out from under a lank fall of hair so blond it seemed white.
Jon watched him with fascination.

Lannisters have green eyes; the Targs dark purple which sometimes seem black in dim light.
Lannisters have beautiful golden curls; Targs have straight silvery hair.
Tyrion is described as having half the features of a Lannister and half the features of a Targ.

Jon watching Tyrion with fascination ....and later befriending Tyrion. Strange behavior for a Stark to befriend a Lannister; throughout the book they hate each other; unless of course they were related by their Targ blood.

2. Tyrion loves and is fascinated by dragons and says he reads everything about them. = Targ

3. Tyrion to Jon at the Wall.
"In their father's eyes, all dwarfs are bastards, yet all bastards don't have to be dwarfs."

4. Tyrion defends and wins the battle of King's Landing by using Wildfire, a Targ weapon.

5. In book 5 we hear from Barristan Selmy that Mad King Aerys (Targ) had a thing for Johanna Lannister(Tywin's wife) and made inappropriate strong advances. IMO, he could have raped her very easily and hence, a child = Tyrion.

6. Lord Tywin was the one who sacked Kings Landing and had the entire Targ Royal family slaughtered including the children and Rhaegar's baby son Aegon. Sounds more like a man seeking vengeance than just a conqueror.

I am bumping this idea up because of a line spoken by Tywin from the HBO series season 3 episode 10 really struck me. Tywin tells Tyrion that he wanted to kill him when he was born, but didn't. "I brought you up as my son. Because you (Tyrion) were a Lannister". He doesn't say that Tyrion is his son but that he is a Lannister and brought him up "as his son.". Tywin's wife (Tyrion's mother) Joanna was Tywin's cousin and a Lannister. We know that Tywin loved Joanna more than anything so IMO, he didn't kill Tyrion for her sake. And this leaves it open that the mad King Aerys could have raped Johanna and produced Tyrion and Tywin knew that.

Ned uses a very similar line in the books when Cat asks him who was Jon Snow's mother. Ned replies, "he is my blood, that is all you need to know." Again, he doesn't say that Jon Snow is his son and so it leaves it open that he could be Lyanna and Rhaegar's son.

An additional leap of faith. King Aerys believed that the Prince Who was Promised would come from his line. Could Tyrion be that Prince?
I really think it is Jon but GRRM is strang enough to make it Tyrion. GRRM says that Tyrion is his favorite character and the one with whom he most identifies. I hope Tyrion isn't the PWWP. However, I do think Tyrion will be one of the 3 heads of the dragon.

What's up guys - been a long time. I enjoyed this season greatly, although I thought the last episode was bland. That said, I thought the Red Wedding was awesome, particularly my wife's reactions since she has never read the books and I did a good job of not spoiling what I knew was coming. One thing I was surprised about was that they killed Rob's wife off. In the books, she is left out there and I found myself wondering if her rumored pregnancy would make an impact down the road. I am surprised that the TV series would kill off a thread in one of the books. Do you think GRRM agreed to close this thread out OR that he still reserves the right to deviate from the TV series going forward?

jusnice wrote:What's up guys - been a long time. I enjoyed this season greatly, although I thought the last episode was bland. That said, I thought the Red Wedding was awesome, particularly my wife's reactions since she has never read the books and I did a good job of not spoiling what I knew was coming. One thing I was surprised about was that they killed Rob's wife off. In the books, she is left out there and I found myself wondering if her rumored pregnancy would make an impact down the road. I am surprised that the TV series would kill off a thread in one of the books. Do you think GRRM agreed to close this thread out OR that he still reserves the right to deviate from the TV series going forward?

In the books Robb's wife's mother said that she had given her daughter a tea to stop conception. So since Rob's wife, Talisa was killed in the HBO series, I am assuming that Robb's wife in the books (Jeyne Westerling) will not be having his child.

Markji wrote:

jusnice wrote:What's up guys - been a long time. I enjoyed this season greatly, although I thought the last episode was bland. That said, I thought the Red Wedding was awesome, particularly my wife's reactions since she has never read the books and I did a good job of not spoiling what I knew was coming. One thing I was surprised about was that they killed Rob's wife off. In the books, she is left out there and I found myself wondering if her rumored pregnancy would make an impact down the road. I am surprised that the TV series would kill off a thread in one of the books. Do you think GRRM agreed to close this thread out OR that he still reserves the right to deviate from the TV series going forward?

In the books Robb's wife's mother said that she had given her daughter a tea to stop conception. So since Rob's wife, Talisa was killed in the HBO series, I am assuming that Robb's wife in the books (Jeyne Westerling) will not be having his child.

Weiss and Benioff consult with GRRM on which characters are essential, who can be altered and who can be ignored. I'm assuming the Jane Westerling story line is probably nonessential and that's why the shows producers decided to move in the direction they did.