Knicks · Great Wojo article: Blame Stern if push comes to shove in NBA talks (page 1)
NEW YORK – Within the past year, an NBA owner was marveling over the staying power of David Stern. Stern’s support had narrowed, his bully act worn thin, and the owner insisted how his peers would talk so tough about the commissioner when he walked out of the room. And then Stern would come through the door, and it almost always faded away.“All of a sudden, all these rich, powerful guys are just staring at their shoes,” the owner said.
After all the suggestions – here and elsewhere – that Stern had lost clout with a brash new generation of owners, several management sources still insist: He’s ruled the owners’ day in these labor talks, and he’s still positioning all the pawns in this lockout. The NBA has moved to the cusp of canceling regular-season games, to a nuclear basketball winter, and has still refused to seriously engage the players in talks on a new collective bargaining agreement.
This is why some player agents are threatening to decertify the union as soon as this week, throw out executive director Billy Hunter and his lawyers, and file an anti-trust lawsuit in federal court. They’ve wanted to take on Stern forever, and they’re determined to replace Hunter and his lawyers with hard-core labor lawyers and throw some uncertainty into the owners’ fight. This could be a wild scene in Manhattan, where defiance out of Stern, out of his owners, promises to inspire all hell to break loose.
Once again, does Stern want to be the commissioner for everyone on Tuesday, and ultimately spare his sport a bloodbath of courtrooms, lawsuits and maybe a lost 2011-12 season? He needs to gather his owners, propose a deal the players can accept, and understand that this is no time to run up the score on the union. The owners have already won big. Stern’s spent most of his professional life as an unapologetic bully, but this time, enough’s enough.
Stern is chasing his own big salary, his own big bonuses, and he knows there’s a deal the players will take that will give his owners a fair chance for profits and competitive balance. He invited this insurrection out of the agents, and now it’s coming. He needs to end it, and spare the NBA a needless bloodbath.
“We’re not just walking off the cliff with [Hunter],” one prominent agent told Yahoo! Sports on Monday. “We’re ready to take the next step and decertify. We’re not going to let the league set up (Tuesday’s) meeting as a way to trap us into a bad deal.”
Said another powerful agent: “Stern doesn’t want to deal with us; he wants Billy and his lawyers in there. Maybe if Stern’s faced with revealing financial records, legal costs and paying possibly billions in damages, maybe he’ll have more incentive to make a deal than sitting across the room from Hunter, eat turkey sandwiches and taking a percentage point at a time away from the players.”
Stern doesn’t want the nuclear option of decertification, but he’s forced the players to pursue it. This has been a rigged process for years, and most agents regret only that they didn’t oust Hunter on July 1, when the owners locked them out. Back then, Hunter could’ve stayed as the front man in talks the way the NFLPA’s DeMaurice Smith did in the NFL’s decertification, but not now. Hunter’s done, and the agents can’t wait to unload him. For those who say that this isn’t personal, well, they’re kidding themselves.
The fans don’t care about those politics, nor should they. Without the framework of a deal, these next 24 hours could bring an Armageddon that will set back years of NBA momentum. The players have offered givebacks, and Stern and his owners sneered at them. The agents have wanted Stern on a level playing field for years, and they’re determined to sue that smirk off his face. They don’t care about the PR war, they care about winning. Billions of dollars are a stake, and, truth be told, the agents can spare the players the inevitable bad-guy role that the public invariably thrusts upon them in these labor disputes.
The agents are willing to become the targets, and they’re used to it. Miami’s Dwyane Wade never deserved the public scorn for his honesty with Yahoo! Sports when he simply stated the obvious: In an uncapped system, there would be owners justifiably willing to pay upwards of $50 million a season for the NBA’s transformational stars. This was no demand, but an honest assessment of the value the elite stars bring to basketball.
As the labor fight plays out, Stern is slowly seeing the onus leave him, and transfer to his players. This makes his life easier now, but so much harder later when his league’s most important commodity – his star players – take a public-perception beating. The players’ job is to fight for themselves and for the little guys in the union, and when they do, they get torched.
After the Wade story was posted, a GM reached out to tell me: “There’s absolutely no doubt that the top NBA stars are the most underpaid in sports. The max salaries created the Heat. The owners have only themselves to blame if they don’t like what happened with the Heat. There’s no way [Heat owner] Micky Arison could afford the $140 million to pay those three in a free market situation – and that’s $140 million annually.”
The Los Angeles Lakers’ Kobe Bryant will be in New York for the meeting Tuesday, a source said. Boston’s Paul Pierce will return, too. They’re the thirtysomething stars who’ve made their money and reached the point where they don’t much care if they take care a public-relations beating for fighting the owners. They have the right to resent owners such as Phoenix’s Robert Sarver, who’ve brought no value to the league, who’ve done nothing to make franchises better.
Sarver has received a lot of blame for his hard-line leanings in these talks, but one ownership voice dismisses his gravity. “I don’t think he has any importance in the room, because he’s always shooting his mouth off,” one high-ranking NBA official with access to the talks said. “I’m not sure anyone’s paying attention to him. Stern is still running things there.”
Two agents told Yahoo! Sports that it doesn’t matter what happens in the talks today, because they refuse to give back anymore to the owners. They will tell their players to reject any union deal that offers more givebacks to the league, and they’ll hope that decertification will push the owners into negotiating for real.
All hell’s going to break loose on Manhattan’s East Side Tuesday, and David Stern has been asking for this agent uprising from the beginning of these labor talks. He’s been asking for the fight of his life, and maybe, the implosion of his sport when this should be a golden time. So, stop the preening, stop the end-zone dance and make those rich guys start to stare at their shoes again. For once, be the commissioner of the NBA, not just the owners. Enough’s enough, bully.
Said another powerful agent: “Stern doesn’t want to deal with us; he wants Billy and his lawyers in there. Maybe if Stern’s faced with revealing financial records, legal costs and paying possibly billions in damages, maybe he’ll have more incentive to make a deal than sitting across the room from Hunter, eat turkey sandwiches and taking a percentage point at a time away from the players.”
Damages? Damages for what? Damages to whom? Your big, fat, overpaid clientele? You, and the rest of your mutated tick species of lawyer/agents?
Great, now the NBA will be in the hands of the ultimate in money grubbers, the agents.
Our beloved game is slowly descending into the fourteenth level of hell...
jrodmc wrote:Said another powerful agent: “Stern doesn’t want to deal with us; he wants Billy and his lawyers in there. Maybe if Stern’s faced with revealing financial records, legal costs and paying possibly billions in damages, maybe he’ll have more incentive to make a deal than sitting across the room from Hunter, eat turkey sandwiches and taking a percentage point at a time away from the players.”Damages? Damages for what? Damages to whom? Your big, fat, overpaid clientele? You, and the rest of your mutated tick species of lawyer/agents?
Great, now the NBA will be in the hands of the ultimate in money grubbers, the agents.
Our beloved game is slowly descending into the fourteenth level of hell...
I agree with you 100%.. honestly these players and their douchebag agents can all rot... If I were an owner I would say.. Ok, I am gone.. 47%bri or no season ever... tell the other owners, the NBA is done and lets start from scratch.. Tell the players you want 50+ %, get your own league...
then I start a new league, and watch how many players come play for my 45% BRI!!!!
Vmart wrote:I'm ok with a bunch of College, D-Leaguers and Euro's playing the game as long as they are wearing the NBA garb. In a year or two others will come around and will want to play again they will miss their pay checks. Can't let a group of 400 to hold the game hostage. I'm sure there are plenty out there that will want to be union free. I know for a fact Iman wants a pay check/contract offer ASAP.
you know what, there will be current players that will come and play, and college is full of future stars who will one day be the big names in this league.. In any field, there is always the next best thing waiting to come up.. It am so tired of this once in a generation talk about players.. look at it this way.. A lot of us here are 30+ years old.. Not really a long time.. and in those 30 years, we have seen, magic, bird, jordan, kobe, Ewing, Olajuwon, Duncan, shaq, lebron, malone, barkley,Isiah, and the list goes on, all of these guys at one point were considered elite talents. Talent comes and go, great players do.. the league remains....
tkf wrote:jrodmc wrote:Said another powerful agent: “Stern doesn’t want to deal with us; he wants Billy and his lawyers in there. Maybe if Stern’s faced with revealing financial records, legal costs and paying possibly billions in damages, maybe he’ll have more incentive to make a deal than sitting across the room from Hunter, eat turkey sandwiches and taking a percentage point at a time away from the players.”Damages? Damages for what? Damages to whom? Your big, fat, overpaid clientele? You, and the rest of your mutated tick species of lawyer/agents?
Great, now the NBA will be in the hands of the ultimate in money grubbers, the agents.
Our beloved game is slowly descending into the fourteenth level of hell...
I agree with you 100%.. honestly these players and their douchebag agents can all rot... If I were an owner I would say.. Ok, I am gone.. 47%bri or no season ever... tell the other owners, the NBA is done and lets start from scratch.. Tell the players you want 50+ %, get your own league...then I start a new league, and watch how many players come play for my 45% BRI!!!!
The owners are much more replaceable than the players are. There aren't dozens of Lebron and Kobe level players hanging around but there are plenty of extra people who could purchase NBA teams.
"its not class warfare, its math!"....Obama
Nix, teams are making less money
It's sensationalism at its finest.
Wojo is a vendetta journalist. He writes articles trying to paint people as the bad guy because he dislikes them for one reason or another. He's done the same with others.
Nalod wrote:
"its not class warfare, its math!"....ObamaNix, teams are making less money
That's true in almost every industry. It doesn't necessarily mean that owners should now be entitled to a higher percentage of the profits from the work of the employees.
Bonn1997 wrote:Nalod wrote:
"its not class warfare, its math!"....ObamaNix, teams are making less money
That's true in almost every industry. It doesn't necessarily mean that owners should now be entitled to a higher percentage of the profits from the work of the employees.
I don't teams are making less money. I thought the issue driving this was some of the newer owners that paid unrealistically high amounts for teams that are struggling to be profitable after paying back the loans they took out to buy the teams.
What other industry guarantees a business owner profit like the NBA, and other sports franchises?
Sorry, but if an owner over pays for a team in a market that can't support that bad decision, and he over pays for talent, he has him or herself to blame- not the players.
James Dolan is replaceable. Lebron James isn't.
franco12 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Nalod wrote:
"its not class warfare, its math!"....ObamaNix, teams are making less money
That's true in almost every industry. It doesn't necessarily mean that owners should now be entitled to a higher percentage of the profits from the work of the employees.I don't teams are making less money. I thought the issue driving this was some of the newer owners that paid unrealistically high amounts for teams that are struggling to be profitable after paying back the loans they took out to buy the teams.
What other industry guarantees a business owner profit like the NBA, and other sports franchises?
Sorry, but if an owner over pays for a team in a market that can't support that bad decision, and he over pays for talent, he has him or herself to blame- not the players.
James Dolan is replaceable. Lebron James isn't.
You're right; it's a rigged system favoring the owners.
Lets forget right or wrong here for a moment and just stick to the numbers.
Can the owners afford to do this and where will it shake out?
Bottom line is where will the compromise be?
Bonn1997 wrote:tkf wrote:jrodmc wrote:Said another powerful agent: “Stern doesn’t want to deal with us; he wants Billy and his lawyers in there. Maybe if Stern’s faced with revealing financial records, legal costs and paying possibly billions in damages, maybe he’ll have more incentive to make a deal than sitting across the room from Hunter, eat turkey sandwiches and taking a percentage point at a time away from the players.”Damages? Damages for what? Damages to whom? Your big, fat, overpaid clientele? You, and the rest of your mutated tick species of lawyer/agents?
Great, now the NBA will be in the hands of the ultimate in money grubbers, the agents.
Our beloved game is slowly descending into the fourteenth level of hell...
I agree with you 100%.. honestly these players and their douchebag agents can all rot... If I were an owner I would say.. Ok, I am gone.. 47%bri or no season ever... tell the other owners, the NBA is done and lets start from scratch.. Tell the players you want 50+ %, get your own league...then I start a new league, and watch how many players come play for my 45% BRI!!!!
The owners are much more replaceable than the players are. There aren't dozens of Lebron and Kobe level players hanging around but there are plenty of extra people who could purchase NBA teams.
Yes, I'm sure there's just a line 5 miles long of billionaires who are dying to shell out a few hundred million to run the Cavs, and the Kings, and the Raptors.
Please, irreplaceable players??? Really? I seem to remember that there were players before Lebron and Kobe, and players before Michael and Larry and Magic, and players before...
How many NCAA Div one programs are there? How many players are there in the Euro leagues?
This is a business. An extremely lucrative business that's about a sports TEAMS, not players. It's not the battle of the poor, downtrodden working class against the cigar smoking trust. No matter how Baron Davis dresses.
Newsflash: Marxism died in 1989. And the clear, integrity-filled union ideal of existence is buried with Jimmy Hoffa.
nixluva wrote:I love it how this is about greedy players now to some of you! The players accepted LESS money in the last deal so let's not forget that OK!!! Salaries were much bigger before or don't any of you remember that? This is not about greedy players, cuz they proved that they're not greedy in the last CBA. The best players used to make more money and now they don't even if the BRI was at 57%, the contracts used to be bigger for the top players. Now they players agreed to give back to the owners and then Stern slapped them in the face with unacceptable demands. THIS IS NOT THE PLAYERS FAULT!!!
"Remember, less is more." - Ranch Wilder
franco12 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Nalod wrote:
"its not class warfare, its math!"....ObamaNix, teams are making less money
That's true in almost every industry. It doesn't necessarily mean that owners should now be entitled to a higher percentage of the profits from the work of the employees.I don't teams are making less money. I thought the issue driving this was some of the newer owners that paid unrealistically high amounts for teams that are struggling to be profitable after paying back the loans they took out to buy the teams.
What other industry guarantees a business owner profit like the NBA, and other sports franchises?
Sorry, but if an owner over pays for a team in a market that can't support that bad decision, and he over pays for talent, he has him or herself to blame- not the players.
James Dolan is replaceable. Lebron James isn't.
And if the talent doesn't pan out or gets injured that's just part of pro sports. Eddie Curry had the potential to be the second coming of Ewing (maybe more like Mourning, but still). He was paid too much based on that potential, but it didn't pan out. Owners can't agree to these deals and then start complaining about how overpaid this unproductive player is. Dolan at least had the sense to just let it go, accept the mistake and loses associated with it and allow his GM and coaches to move on. There can never really be built in protections against this unless non-guaranteed contracts return. The union, agents, and players will NEVER agree to this though.
I think the onus for the current situation is really on the owners and the commish. The unwillingness of folks like Sterling to really invest in winning even a huge market REGARDLESS of being the Lakers' shadow is one issue (and a unique one). But in other sports small/smaller market teams are finding ways to be competitive and even win. Winning teams make money. Drafting, signing, and trading well are all part of the process, but they all require investing in the team. Complaining about the cost of elite players doesn't hold water. If Melo had either won or was consistently competing in the semis and finals (and still losing), I don't think he leaves Denver. If he saw a future there, even to the point of being convince to take a pay cut to add the right guys, he doesn't leave. But the Nuggets didn't want to or couldn't really bring in any new guys to get them over the hump. The Suns let Amare leave and took away (without replacing) the type of player that they needed to pair with Nash to really compete. But investing in those things would have kept seats full and maximized profits (or the potential for profits). Winning teams rarely lose money, IF they're well managed (fiscally speaking). Several of these owners aren't really invested in the game, like a Cuban, they're looking at as just another company to run. Sports franchises are unique and standard practices don't really apply.
jrodmc wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:tkf wrote:jrodmc wrote:Said another powerful agent: “Stern doesn’t want to deal with us; he wants Billy and his lawyers in there. Maybe if Stern’s faced with revealing financial records, legal costs and paying possibly billions in damages, maybe he’ll have more incentive to make a deal than sitting across the room from Hunter, eat turkey sandwiches and taking a percentage point at a time away from the players.”Damages? Damages for what? Damages to whom? Your big, fat, overpaid clientele? You, and the rest of your mutated tick species of lawyer/agents?
Great, now the NBA will be in the hands of the ultimate in money grubbers, the agents.
Our beloved game is slowly descending into the fourteenth level of hell...
I agree with you 100%.. honestly these players and their douchebag agents can all rot... If I were an owner I would say.. Ok, I am gone.. 47%bri or no season ever... tell the other owners, the NBA is done and lets start from scratch.. Tell the players you want 50+ %, get your own league...then I start a new league, and watch how many players come play for my 45% BRI!!!!
The owners are much more replaceable than the players are. There aren't dozens of Lebron and Kobe level players hanging around but there are plenty of extra people who could purchase NBA teams.Yes, I'm sure there's just a line 5 miles long of billionaires who are dying to shell out a few hundred million to run the Cavs, and the Kings, and the Raptors.
Please, irreplaceable players??? Really? I seem to remember that there were players before Lebron and Kobe, and players before Michael and Larry and Magic, and players before...
How many NCAA Div one programs are there? How many players are there in the Euro leagues?
This is a business. An extremely lucrative business that's about a sports TEAMS, not players. It's not the battle of the poor, downtrodden working class against the cigar smoking trust. No matter how Baron Davis dresses.
Newsflash: Marxism died in 1989. And the clear, integrity-filled union ideal of existence is buried with Jimmy Hoffa.
Michael, Larry, Magic? What? Those were all NBA players! You're talking about replacing NBA players with the next level down - NBDL and whatever other replacement players can be scooped up.
Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:tkf wrote:jrodmc wrote:Said another powerful agent: “Stern doesn’t want to deal with us; he wants Billy and his lawyers in there. Maybe if Stern’s faced with revealing financial records, legal costs and paying possibly billions in damages, maybe he’ll have more incentive to make a deal than sitting across the room from Hunter, eat turkey sandwiches and taking a percentage point at a time away from the players.”Damages? Damages for what? Damages to whom? Your big, fat, overpaid clientele? You, and the rest of your mutated tick species of lawyer/agents?
Great, now the NBA will be in the hands of the ultimate in money grubbers, the agents.
Our beloved game is slowly descending into the fourteenth level of hell...
I agree with you 100%.. honestly these players and their douchebag agents can all rot... If I were an owner I would say.. Ok, I am gone.. 47%bri or no season ever... tell the other owners, the NBA is done and lets start from scratch.. Tell the players you want 50+ %, get your own league...then I start a new league, and watch how many players come play for my 45% BRI!!!!
The owners are much more replaceable than the players are. There aren't dozens of Lebron and Kobe level players hanging around but there are plenty of extra people who could purchase NBA teams.Yes, I'm sure there's just a line 5 miles long of billionaires who are dying to shell out a few hundred million to run the Cavs, and the Kings, and the Raptors.
Please, irreplaceable players??? Really? I seem to remember that there were players before Lebron and Kobe, and players before Michael and Larry and Magic, and players before...
How many NCAA Div one programs are there? How many players are there in the Euro leagues?
This is a business. An extremely lucrative business that's about a sports TEAMS, not players. It's not the battle of the poor, downtrodden working class against the cigar smoking trust. No matter how Baron Davis dresses.
Newsflash: Marxism died in 1989. And the clear, integrity-filled union ideal of existence is buried with Jimmy Hoffa.
Michael, Larry, Magic? What? Those were all NBA players! You're talking about replacing NBA players with the next level down - NBDL and whatever other replacement players can be scooped up.
Definition of an NBA player: someone who plays in the NBA. Michael, Larry and Magic were all in the NCAA at one time. Dirk came from Europe, last I checked. The point is, your high school phenoms like Kobe and Lebron are not irreplaceable. Players get replaced. I rooted for the Knicks when their starting lineup included Pat Cummings. I will root for the Knicks when their starting lineup includes scabs, NBDL stars, and Euro league stars. Or possibly some NCAA stars who would beg for the NBA minimum wage at this point.
Kobe and Lebron can go join Marbles in China or Italy or Turkey.
grillco wrote:franco12 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Nalod wrote:
"its not class warfare, its math!"....ObamaNix, teams are making less money
That's true in almost every industry. It doesn't necessarily mean that owners should now be entitled to a higher percentage of the profits from the work of the employees.I don't teams are making less money. I thought the issue driving this was some of the newer owners that paid unrealistically high amounts for teams that are struggling to be profitable after paying back the loans they took out to buy the teams.
What other industry guarantees a business owner profit like the NBA, and other sports franchises?
Sorry, but if an owner over pays for a team in a market that can't support that bad decision, and he over pays for talent, he has him or herself to blame- not the players.
James Dolan is replaceable. Lebron James isn't.
And if the talent doesn't pan out or gets injured that's just part of pro sports. Eddie Curry had the potential to be the second coming of Ewing (maybe more like Mourning, but still). He was paid too much based on that potential, but it didn't pan out. Owners can't agree to these deals and then start complaining about how overpaid this unproductive player is. Dolan at least had the sense to just let it go, accept the mistake and loses associated with it and allow his GM and coaches to move on. There can never really be built in protections against this unless non-guaranteed contracts return. The union, agents, and players will NEVER agree to this though.
I think the onus for the current situation is really on the owners and the commish. The unwillingness of folks like Sterling to really invest in winning even a huge market REGARDLESS of being the Lakers' shadow is one issue (and a unique one). But in other sports small/smaller market teams are finding ways to be competitive and even win. Winning teams make money. Drafting, signing, and trading well are all part of the process, but they all require investing in the team. Complaining about the cost of elite players doesn't hold water. If Melo had either won or was consistently competing in the semis and finals (and still losing), I don't think he leaves Denver. If he saw a future there, even to the point of being convince to take a pay cut to add the right guys, he doesn't leave. But the Nuggets didn't want to or couldn't really bring in any new guys to get them over the hump. The Suns let Amare leave and took away (without replacing) the type of player that they needed to pair with Nash to really compete. But investing in those things would have kept seats full and maximized profits (or the potential for profits). Winning teams rarely lose money, IF they're well managed (fiscally speaking). Several of these owners aren't really invested in the game, like a Cuban, they're looking at as just another company to run. Sports franchises are unique and standard practices don't really apply.
Melo left because he percieves himself as outgrowing Denver and his wife need to be in NY or LA.
It does not matter why a players wants to leave, its just the fact of having to deal with it.
The players have a good deal now and good guarantees. Agents get paid based on their clients salary. OF course they want no changes.
Players have huge egos and "want their money". They don't care about how.
Lets talk about Arenas vs. Plaxico.
Arenas did not shoot anyone but between his health problems and guns the guy has been awful. His contract should not be fully guaranteed. LIke the NFL, there is a reduced buyout.
If Plaxico returns to form, like Vick they have the opportunity to get new contracts. If a team releases them and they return to form well then good for the player and his new team. Eddie should only had 2 of his deal guaranteed. The cavaet should be what if he outplays his contract? Then incentives are put in place and perhaps a tax is imposed.
Players get security and then relax is not good for anyone, except the player of course!
Nalod wrote:grillco wrote:franco12 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Nalod wrote:
"its not class warfare, its math!"....ObamaNix, teams are making less money
That's true in almost every industry. It doesn't necessarily mean that owners should now be entitled to a higher percentage of the profits from the work of the employees.I don't teams are making less money. I thought the issue driving this was some of the newer owners that paid unrealistically high amounts for teams that are struggling to be profitable after paying back the loans they took out to buy the teams.
What other industry guarantees a business owner profit like the NBA, and other sports franchises?
Sorry, but if an owner over pays for a team in a market that can't support that bad decision, and he over pays for talent, he has him or herself to blame- not the players.
James Dolan is replaceable. Lebron James isn't.
And if the talent doesn't pan out or gets injured that's just part of pro sports. Eddie Curry had the potential to be the second coming of Ewing (maybe more like Mourning, but still). He was paid too much based on that potential, but it didn't pan out. Owners can't agree to these deals and then start complaining about how overpaid this unproductive player is. Dolan at least had the sense to just let it go, accept the mistake and loses associated with it and allow his GM and coaches to move on. There can never really be built in protections against this unless non-guaranteed contracts return. The union, agents, and players will NEVER agree to this though.
I think the onus for the current situation is really on the owners and the commish. The unwillingness of folks like Sterling to really invest in winning even a huge market REGARDLESS of being the Lakers' shadow is one issue (and a unique one). But in other sports small/smaller market teams are finding ways to be competitive and even win. Winning teams make money. Drafting, signing, and trading well are all part of the process, but they all require investing in the team. Complaining about the cost of elite players doesn't hold water. If Melo had either won or was consistently competing in the semis and finals (and still losing), I don't think he leaves Denver. If he saw a future there, even to the point of being convince to take a pay cut to add the right guys, he doesn't leave. But the Nuggets didn't want to or couldn't really bring in any new guys to get them over the hump. The Suns let Amare leave and took away (without replacing) the type of player that they needed to pair with Nash to really compete. But investing in those things would have kept seats full and maximized profits (or the potential for profits). Winning teams rarely lose money, IF they're well managed (fiscally speaking). Several of these owners aren't really invested in the game, like a Cuban, they're looking at as just another company to run. Sports franchises are unique and standard practices don't really apply.
Melo left because he percieves himself as outgrowing Denver and his wife need to be in NY or LA.
It does not matter why a players wants to leave, its just the fact of having to deal with it.
The players have a good deal now and good guarantees. Agents get paid based on their clients salary. OF course they want no changes.
Players have huge egos and "want their money". They don't care about how.
Lets talk about Arenas vs. Plaxico.
Arenas did not shoot anyone but between his health problems and guns the guy has been awful. His contract should not be fully guaranteed. LIke the NFL, there is a reduced buyout.
If Plaxico returns to form, like Vick they have the opportunity to get new contracts. If a team releases them and they return to form well then good for the player and his new team. Eddie should only had 2 of his deal guaranteed. The cavaet should be what if he outplays his contract? Then incentives are put in place and perhaps a tax is imposed.
Players get security and then relax is not good for anyone, except the player of course!
And their agents.
Nalod wrote:grillco wrote:franco12 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Nalod wrote:
"its not class warfare, its math!"....ObamaNix, teams are making less money
That's true in almost every industry. It doesn't necessarily mean that owners should now be entitled to a higher percentage of the profits from the work of the employees.I don't teams are making less money. I thought the issue driving this was some of the newer owners that paid unrealistically high amounts for teams that are struggling to be profitable after paying back the loans they took out to buy the teams.
What other industry guarantees a business owner profit like the NBA, and other sports franchises?
Sorry, but if an owner over pays for a team in a market that can't support that bad decision, and he over pays for talent, he has him or herself to blame- not the players.
James Dolan is replaceable. Lebron James isn't.
And if the talent doesn't pan out or gets injured that's just part of pro sports. Eddie Curry had the potential to be the second coming of Ewing (maybe more like Mourning, but still). He was paid too much based on that potential, but it didn't pan out. Owners can't agree to these deals and then start complaining about how overpaid this unproductive player is. Dolan at least had the sense to just let it go, accept the mistake and loses associated with it and allow his GM and coaches to move on. There can never really be built in protections against this unless non-guaranteed contracts return. The union, agents, and players will NEVER agree to this though.
I think the onus for the current situation is really on the owners and the commish. The unwillingness of folks like Sterling to really invest in winning even a huge market REGARDLESS of being the Lakers' shadow is one issue (and a unique one). But in other sports small/smaller market teams are finding ways to be competitive and even win. Winning teams make money. Drafting, signing, and trading well are all part of the process, but they all require investing in the team. Complaining about the cost of elite players doesn't hold water. If Melo had either won or was consistently competing in the semis and finals (and still losing), I don't think he leaves Denver. If he saw a future there, even to the point of being convince to take a pay cut to add the right guys, he doesn't leave. But the Nuggets didn't want to or couldn't really bring in any new guys to get them over the hump. The Suns let Amare leave and took away (without replacing) the type of player that they needed to pair with Nash to really compete. But investing in those things would have kept seats full and maximized profits (or the potential for profits). Winning teams rarely lose money, IF they're well managed (fiscally speaking). Several of these owners aren't really invested in the game, like a Cuban, they're looking at as just another company to run. Sports franchises are unique and standard practices don't really apply.
Melo left because he percieves himself as outgrowing Denver and his wife need to be in NY or LA.
It does not matter why a players wants to leave, its just the fact of having to deal with it.
The players have a good deal now and good guarantees. Agents get paid based on their clients salary. OF course they want no changes.
Players have huge egos and "want their money". They don't care about how.
Lets talk about Arenas vs. Plaxico.
Arenas did not shoot anyone but between his health problems and guns the guy has been awful. His contract should not be fully guaranteed. LIke the NFL, there is a reduced buyout.
If Plaxico returns to form, like Vick they have the opportunity to get new contracts. If a team releases them and they return to form well then good for the player and his new team. Eddie should only had 2 of his deal guaranteed. The cavaet should be what if he outplays his contract? Then incentives are put in place and perhaps a tax is imposed.
Players get security and then relax is not good for anyone, except the player of course!
But does Melo really feel he's outgrowing Denver if they were in the semis regularly and maybe had a trip or two to the Finals OR his team loads up like the Celts, Heat, or Knicks...I don't see it happening. Yes dealing with players leaving is huge for any franchise in any sport, but they can't play forever. Jeter's been playing for 16 years already, but he's going to stop one day. Owners acting like losing players for any reason or getting bum players is problem they shouldn't have to deal with is ludicrous. And so are guaranteed contracts, but they are the standard and aren't going anywhere.
The problem with the NBA is there aren't really any incentive based contracts. They happen in the NFL and MLB all of the time. A-Rod's 13 or so HR season might cost him $5 million increments if he doesn't reach certain milestones, but it drives him to earn those bonuses. The NBA might be harder, because scoring incentives won't necessarily equate to wins, but leadership-, defensive-, team play-based incentives, created in cooperation with the player/agent and GM/owner could benefit the team, as in defining "leadership" goals/actions, defensive intensity and milestones, and "team-play" (assists, not ignoring your teammates, etc.). The players aren't driven like they used to be. Ewing wanted his paydays, sure, but he wanted to win, just like Jordan...although he DID win. Bird and Magic obviously have done and lived well as players, but they wanted to win above all else. Joe Johnson wanted to be paid just like Amare, but Amare was in on the plan to build the franchise in NY. Wade, LeBron, and Bosh wanted to win just a bit more than just get paid, hence that financial "compromise" to join forces in Miami.
Basically the owners and players are broken. Their desire to make money (and as much as possible) takes massive precedent over winning. It was a known fact that Knicks/Rangers ownership over the years were often just happy with a series or two play-off revenues. Winning would have been gravy (and WAS for the Rangers), but the main thing was the money to be made off of playoff tickets, concessions, merchandise, all without having to pay the players any extra salary (or their regular per game salary). The players want long fat guaranteed contracts so they don't have to worry about money and the owners want unrealistic guarantees that their franchises will be lucrative. The owners have a bigger jump in the area of managing their expectations. While sports franchises are much different from every other kind of business, they are still a business and have all the risks of failure associated with business. But they won't have any business without a product and their product relies on the players.
50/50 seems fair to me, but I think that's become the worst case scenario for either side, because then neither side "wins". If the season goes, I'm done. I live around the MLB season, tennis tourneys, World Cups, and...well that's it for me.