Knicks · We don't need CP3, we need Iman (page 2)

ATrain wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:One thing if I was new Orleans is trade Chris Paul to the Knicks now to tank the season and solidify high draft pick. Because unlike Denver Chris Paul is their whole team

ahh! Kendall Marshall is having a great year so far.

Marshall reminds me of Pepe Sanchez, Temple's former point guard. I'm not sure he'll be more than backup in the League unless he gets a J. There are a some solid PGs in this years draft. I really like Malik Wayns from Villanova and Marquis Teague from Kentucky. But this looks like a so-so year for point guards, which is a good thing since we may not have a pick this year.

I dont mind Iman but he really is no different than a guy like Ramon Sessions at this point. Lots of athleticism and no jump shot.

AnubisADL wrote:I dont mind Iman but he really is no different than a guy like Ramon Sessions at this point. Lots of athleticism and no jump shot.

we'll have to see about the jump shot. or anything about Iman.

Does Sessions play D?

I agree with Killa saying we don't necessarily need Paul...Paul is an absolute luxury...But we do need a PG with experience...Asking a rookie to lead the team at the point is a bit much...I would loved to have kept Ray Felton and maybe add Chandler in the middle to this group...This would be a formidable team...I really don't want to lose any more young players or draft picks...I would like to she how Douglas and Fields develop this coming year...Asking Iman to step in and compete against Bron and his crew is a bit much..Also STAT has a small window..How long will we wait for Iman to develop into the player to help this team..

All that said, Paul is the real deal...He is the type of player that excels in the playoff...he isn't afraid of the stage, he isn't shy...I would wait the entire year and sign him as a free agent...Let see how far we get with what we have for the time being..

Sessions is a very solid player. He would make a lot of sense and a lot more cost efficient. The biggest difference between Iman and Sessions is their size and defense. I wouldn't say Iman doesn't have a jump shot either. He does have great form but it is one of his weaker traits of his game and sometimes he has to work on. With Amare and Melo eating up most of our cap, we do have to look for more cost efficient players. He has to ability to penetrate and can create, he could be a player we can target as well.

It comes down to selecting players that are cost efficient and we have to sign good deals. We have to see where Iman is and get a sense if he will be part of our future.
We have to see what position suits him best on offense and defense?

People really aren't paying attention. Iman had a good shot from inside 3pt range. He wasn't a bad shooter at the FT line or from midrange. He just needed to tighten up his shot selection and from all reports he has. I actually expect him to be a good shooter. Not necessarily great, but good.

Year    	Min	Pts	FG	FGA	FG%	2Pt	2PtA	2P%	3Pt	3PtA	3P%	FT%	REB	Asts	Stls	Blks	TOs	PFs
2008/09	31.6	10.6	3.4	8.7	39.1	2.4	5.5	43.8	1.0	3.3	31.4	65.6	0.7	5.0	2.1	0.2	3.7	2.9
2009/10	30.1	10.0	3.5	9.0	38.5	2.2	5.3	42.1	1.2	3.7	33.3	72.0	0.9	4.0	1.9	0.2	3.1	2.3
2010/11	32.0	17.3	5.7	14.1	40.6	4.4	9.2	47.4	1.4	4.9	27.8	80.6	1.7	3.5	2.7	0.2	2.3	2.8

You can see that he was fined from 2pt range, but dreadful from 3. In particular in his last season. Iman became a good FT shooter as well. When you assess his shooting form you can see he has good form and IMO he's a prime candidate for improving as a pro much like CP3 and Rose have done. In fact many guards have been able to show improvement. Why do I think Iman will do the same? Cuz he already showed improvement as early as his workouts with teams like the Knicks. Since then he's impressed many with his shooting and there's no evidence that this will be a problem for him anymore.

well ray will be a ristricted Fa in 2012, remember the knicks gave him a 3 yr deal, I would prefer lawson...Dj augstine is another guy I would keep my eye on

knicks1248 wrote:well ray will be a ristricted Fa in 2012, remember the knicks gave him a 3 yr deal, I would prefer lawson...Dj augstine is another guy I would keep my eye on

I am pretty sure Raymond will have zero interest in coming back to us after we traded him literally right after he chose to sign with us. I know it's a business, but I can't blame him.

knicks1248 wrote:well ray will be a ristricted Fa in 2012, remember the knicks gave him a 3 yr deal, I would prefer lawson...Dj augstine is another guy I would keep my eye on

There are some great options at PG outside of Paul and Williams, with the best being Steve Nash. It just makes too much sense that Nash finishes his career in New York competing for a championship. We should sign him to a two year deal and hopefully Shumpert eventually becomes his replacement. Nash will come cheaper than most and allow us to build the right supporting cast. Nash will decline at some point, but will still be a top-30 player in the league and one of the best possible fits for this team.

nixluva wrote:People really aren't paying attention. Iman had a good shot from inside 3pt range. He wasn't a bad shooter at the FT line or from midrange. He just needed to tighten up his shot selection and from all reports he has. I actually expect him to be a good shooter. Not necessarily great, but good.

Year    	Min	Pts	FG	FGA	FG%	2Pt	2PtA	2P%	3Pt	3PtA	3P%	FT%	REB	Asts	Stls	Blks	TOs	PFs
2008/09	31.6	10.6	3.4	8.7	39.1	2.4	5.5	43.8	1.0	3.3	31.4	65.6	0.7	5.0	2.1	0.2	3.7	2.9
2009/10	30.1	10.0	3.5	9.0	38.5	2.2	5.3	42.1	1.2	3.7	33.3	72.0	0.9	4.0	1.9	0.2	3.1	2.3
2010/11	32.0	17.3	5.7	14.1	40.6	4.4	9.2	47.4	1.4	4.9	27.8	80.6	1.7	3.5	2.7	0.2	2.3	2.8

You can see that he was fined from 2pt range, but dreadful from 3. In particular in his last season. Iman became a good FT shooter as well. When you assess his shooting form you can see he has good form and IMO he's a prime candidate for improving as a pro much like CP3 and Rose have done. In fact many guards have been able to show improvement. Why do I think Iman will do the same? Cuz he already showed improvement as early as his workouts with teams like the Knicks. Since then he's impressed many with his shooting and there's no evidence that this will be a problem for him anymore.

Nixluva, Shumpert himself admitted he had a poor field goal percentage and took a lot of questionable shots. Having a good percentage only means so much if you take a lot of bad shots too. Here's to hoping that him admitting it translates to the NBA court.

Allanfan20 wrote:

nixluva wrote:People really aren't paying attention. Iman had a good shot from inside 3pt range. He wasn't a bad shooter at the FT line or from midrange. He just needed to tighten up his shot selection and from all reports he has. I actually expect him to be a good shooter. Not necessarily great, but good.

Year    	Min	Pts	FG	FGA	FG%	2Pt	2PtA	2P%	3Pt	3PtA	3P%	FT%	REB	Asts	Stls	Blks	TOs	PFs
2008/09	31.6	10.6	3.4	8.7	39.1	2.4	5.5	43.8	1.0	3.3	31.4	65.6	0.7	5.0	2.1	0.2	3.7	2.9
2009/10	30.1	10.0	3.5	9.0	38.5	2.2	5.3	42.1	1.2	3.7	33.3	72.0	0.9	4.0	1.9	0.2	3.1	2.3
2010/11	32.0	17.3	5.7	14.1	40.6	4.4	9.2	47.4	1.4	4.9	27.8	80.6	1.7	3.5	2.7	0.2	2.3	2.8

You can see that he was fined from 2pt range, but dreadful from 3. In particular in his last season. Iman became a good FT shooter as well. When you assess his shooting form you can see he has good form and IMO he's a prime candidate for improving as a pro much like CP3 and Rose have done. In fact many guards have been able to show improvement. Why do I think Iman will do the same? Cuz he already showed improvement as early as his workouts with teams like the Knicks. Since then he's impressed many with his shooting and there's no evidence that this will be a problem for him anymore.

Nixluva, Shumpert himself admitted he had a poor field goal percentage and took a lot of questionable shots. Having a good percentage only means so much if you take a lot of bad shots too. Here's to hoping that him admitting it translates to the NBA court.

My point is that there's a difference between simply not being able to shoot and being able to shoot but rushing or forcing bad shots. This is why I posted the numbers so everyone could see the breakdown of his shooting. His big problem was 3's. He was taking five 3's and only making 1. My guess is that this is something that he can improve on much like Paul and Rose did. He's not a Rondo IMO. If you leave Iman wide open I believe he'll hit those shots. He was a primary scorer on a bad GT team, which may have led to him forcing shots. That shouldn't be the case here in NY.

I don't want him jackin shots anyway. I'm hoping he takes it strong to the hole often. We need a guard that can break down a defense and get to the rim. With so much attention being paid to Melo and STAT, Iman should be able to attack successfully.

I really like Iman and I am getting discouraged with all of the talk about going out and getting a back up point guard. I think Douglas and Iman are more than adequate as back ups. I think it is easy to forget that Douglas tore his labrum in the preseason and played the whole year with that injury. He had a great run at the end of his rookie year. I think the Knicks need to address the center position and not just sign Jeffries because he is familiar with D'Antoni's 'system'.

CrushAlot wrote:I really like Iman and I am getting discouraged with all of the talk about going out and getting a back up point guard. I think Douglas and Iman are more than adequate as back ups. I think it is easy to forget that Douglas tore his labrum in the preseason and played the whole year with that injury. He had a great run at the end of his rookie year. I think the Knicks need to address the center position and not just sign Jeffries because he is familiar with D'Antoni's 'system'.

I agree. Between Douglas and Shumpert we are set at backup PG. The PG debate will come down to if Billups is the right starting PG. Douglas is a career backup combo guard and Shumpert hopefully becomes a starting PG, but certainly won't for a few seasons if at all. Billups has the leadership and overall ability to still be a championship PG, but at the end of the day, this team probably needs more of a pure distributing PG. We will have to wait and see on that tho.

I'm not sure how anyone can say were set at backup pg...you clearly saw TD absolutely has no pg skills and we have no idea how Iman skills will translate in the NBA...
What's worse is they will essentially only a 2 wk training camp.

With that much uncertainty..you have to look at all your options..

knicks1248 wrote:I'm not sure how anyone can say were set at backup pg...you clearly saw TD absolutely has no pg skills and we have no idea how Iman skills will translate in the NBA...
What's worse is they will essentially only a 2 wk training camp.

With that much uncertainty..you have to look at all your options..

TD won't give you any excuses. Still playing with that bum shoulder knowing it could pop out of place on impact that wouldn't make you think twice about driving the lane instead of just shooting a jumper?

If you trade him before the deadline you don't get to evaluate whether he has made any progress. If a player does 2 a days on his own...since August he would get a chance to show me what he has before I trade him. Still I'm sure that work ethic will serve him just as well on another roster.

I do like Berea though. A lot.

TD is a combo guard. Too short to be SG, not adept at PG playmaking skills.

I like his grit and play.

Nalod wrote:TD is a combo guard. Too short to be SG, not adept at PG playmaking skills.

I like his grit and play.

def not adempt enough at PG today. But what's the learning curve and the cut-off point?

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:TD is a combo guard. Too short to be SG, not adept at PG playmaking skills.

I like his grit and play.

def not adempt enough at PG today. But what's the learning curve and the cut-off point?

Tough to stay, billups was a late bloomer at that position, considering that he will get first hand knowledge..he needs to get off to a fast start. If he does, expect him gone by the trading dead line.

Same goes for Iman, if they both get off to great start, they will be part of a packge to get D will, or pual..

My question is, does this overall team stay intact for the duration of the season..I think part of the reason we rush into that trade was because we a .500 team. If that continues, i think it haapen again. If we jump off to a great start, I think we stay the course.

Isn't the saying that it can take as much as 3 years for the average guard to get the hang of the pro game? The gifted PG's tend to get it much faster. I thought I saw TD make some progress and then he fell right back into his bad ways. He's still a useful player and young enough to still improve.

I think Iman does in fact have more ability than it might seem. He started off as more of a pure PG and as such he avg'd 5 assists as a rookie. He then started to become more of a scorer for his team and by last year he needed to score even more. I believe that the reason Walsh and MDA took him is because they saw enough to feel comfortable that Iman can run the point. We didn't see him in his workouts but:

Shumpert does not need the ball to be effective, making him a solid complement to the Knicks’ three stars. Although he is considered more of a combination guard than a true point, Walsh said Shumpert has the requisite playmaking skills. The Knicks need an eventual heir to Billups, who will be 35 next season.

“I think with our team offensively, he probably will play more point than he will two guard, because Chauncey can play ‘two’ probably as good as anybody,” Walsh said. “I think he can run pick-and-roll, I think he’ll see the play, and he’ll get better at it.”

Walsh says Shumpert is ready to step in to the rotation and complement Stoudemire and Anthony.

"Well, he is athletic. I think his future is well ahead of him and he is a good player right now," Walsh said. "I think he's got a very good upside. He can play point guard or you can move him over to two guard.

GREENBURGH, N.Y. -- The book on Iman Shumpert was that he couldn't shoot. But when the New York Knicks saw him knocking down shot after shot when they worked him out, they determined the book was outdated.

Outgoing Knicks president Donnie Walsh raved about Shumpert's shooting ability, his defensive abilities and his 40-inch vertical leap Thursday night after the Knicks took the Georgia Tech combo guard with the 17th pick in the draft, passing over Marshon Brooks of Providence, Chris Singleton of Florida State and Kenneth Faried of Morehead State.

"He shot the ball extremely well. His shot's not broke. Some guys you see, and you can tell right away they can't shoot and they're going to have to learn form. He has good form, he was hitting shots, he can defend very well. Very well. And he's got tremendously long arms, so I really liked him a lot," Walsh said.

Shumpert worked out for the Knicks on June 9 and was assigned to defend Hofstra guard Charles Jenkins.

"I shot it real well. I impressed everybody. They all said I couldn't shoot, and I shot it well," said Shumpert, who estimated he made 17 or 18 of 25 NBA-range 3-point shots during shooting drills.

Walsh said he expected Shumpert to play at times in a two-guard alignment with Chauncey Billups in which Billups would man the off-guard position.

Everything we've seen from this kid over the summer seems to support these statements. We can't read too much into the pickup games they had but you can't say he couldn't hit shots. If you can't shoot it shows no matter who you're playing. Rondo is left WIDE OPEN and he misses shots. I don't believe Iman is anywhere near Rondo in that sense. I really wanted the Knicks to take this kid and I think he's got a chance to be a real sleeper in this draft. This is a kid that has the ability to do it all. He may not be the best passer, but I think he'll be effective and at the same time do a lot of other things well.