Knicks · Knicks Emerging in Jamal Crawford Chase (page 6)

loweyecue wrote:Is it possible or are we going even further down in IQ level with this mOve? Ii dont see Crawford as an upgrade on TD.

Remember how Jamal used to be the only one that would throw the alleyoop to Curry. Think hard and how often do you remember TD executing that kind of pass? As bad as Jamal is as a PG, TD is worse. Jamal has actually had seasons where he avg'd 5 asts. Maybe TD will get there in time, but he was absolutely overwhelmed in the playoffs and that may have put the fear of God into the Knicks Brass. They can only hope that TD will in fact make a huge improvement in the same situation. With Jamal they already know he's capable of being 6th Man of the year and executing in the playoffs.

Everyone has their points surprising, the truth is, you are all right.
He is all of the above. It's just wish side you want to believe and argue for.
They are strengths and weaknesses all out. There is lots and pros and cons about this one.

To me, Barea, doesn't take many bad shots. He plays the pick and roll effectively and can hit big shots.
I don't a want duo between Melo, Amare, and Crawford taking the bulk of the shots. Or even competing
with each other for high lights. I want a little bit of a team oriented sport . Some team work and ball movement.
To me, Jamal can't use his dribble, quickness, and most importantly, play the pick and roll like Barea.

Good things happen, when Barea can break down your defense with speed.
He is a mini tank of poor man's Cp3, not as fancy, or nearly as skilled.
He could provide that penetration for us to take good shots.
He can facilitate the offense.
He can play limited minutes or heavy minutes.
He is just a great tempo changer.
He might not block a shot, but he sure can stay in front of guy, which buys him time for another to help.
He can also hit the 3.
He provides the triple threat.

Look, Jamal is more skilled than TD, but many players that are SG's go downhill FAST.
Many players, not even SG's, go down at that age and he started pretty out of H.S.
If he plays it right, Jamal can electrify the garden, but I want Melo to even stop playing that 1v1 style.
Jamal, got a lot more team oriented at Atlanta, But my choice, is clear.
He takes many bad jump shot's and it could go one way or another.
He can hit one and miss 5 in a row.
That's just my opinion, but I just wouldn't roll the dice for him.
Jamal's pick and roll is mainly rolling out, arkward, off balance, for a jump shot.
Or a quick 3, its great when you make em. It's a kill team spirit play when you miss and can't get the rebound.

Jamal's play style is still in him, it isn't always like it was the Garden days.
Sometimes he doesn't look to shoot as much.
This is one is just a close call, it really is. I can argue for Crawford in many ways as well.
Im not going to though =P
If Iman plays the point, it can work, but not sure with some teams.
It would be pick on Jamal for sure with the Heat lineup, especially if Dwade is the smallest.
He can't stay in front of either one or big enough to guard em.

We saw Barea vs the Heat, they did try to pick on him, they didn't successful.
We don't know if it would work with Jamal, but Chandler and the team, covered him, and he actually held his own.
Lineups were anywhere from 1-3 guards.

Kidd
Barea
Terry

I think our team, is similar to Dallas's in some ways. Amare doesn't have as much range or even size as Dirk.
Dirk is actually pretty fast on his feet, with great footwork, foot speed as fast as Jeffries but same length, height, and size as KG.
Amare, supposing worked on his handle this year too. I think he will enjoy these nice pick's Chandler sets as well.

There is a possibility that he can work here, I just don't want it.
I do admit, I could be wrong though, and would respect your opinion regardless...
If Barea isn't an option than what?
Also we need to sign a player like Shawne back or at least someone like Ak47..
He's another player I would rather have than Jamal.
He's a luxury I don't want, to me, at this point.
I also think Terry is 10x more effective than Jamal's shooting game.

I also agree, that Jamal is a better alley hoop passer than probably all of our player or Barea.

With the exception, of Iman, don't think can determine that one.

I like how this thread has shifted its focus to alley oop passes - it's not like we're going to be throwing alleys every possesion. To me, the position needed to be upgraded is PG, and I don't see JC as that big an upgrade at the PG position at least. He's the best available guard right now, but I'm not too sure about having Bibby, Shump, TD and Jamal Crawford handling PG duties... Unless Phil Jax comes in as everyone jokes about these days.

I guess I would welcome both JC or Barea, but I kinda hoped on someone better, but I guess those are our options.

skeng wrote:I like how this thread has shifted its focus to alley oop passes - it's not like we're going to be throwing alleys every possesion. To me, the position needed to be upgraded is PG, and I don't see JC as that big an upgrade at the PG position at least. He's the best available guard right now, but I'm not too sure about having Bibby, Shump, TD and Jamal Crawford handling PG duties... Unless Phil Jax comes in as everyone jokes about these days.

I guess I would welcome both JC or Barea, but I kinda hoped on someone better, but I guess those are our options.

That's part of the problem. Everyone hopes for someone better at PG, but who? Who exactly is there to get? Baron Davis? He's not even been Amnestied and cleared thru waivers yet. Right now there aren't a lot of good options. Knicks have to take into consideration the fact that Jamal won a 6th Man award and was successful with ATL. COmpared to TD's experience in the postseason, there's no question who has the better credentials. IMO Bibby is likely to end up being this years Mason. JJ Barea could be a nice spark off the bench. We'll see what ends up actually happening.

Childs2Dudley wrote:Nobody has given any logical reason why Crawford would be good for this team other than the usual "he will be good the team, you just wait and see" responses.

Compared to TD (who overall I like)

- Jamal is taller

- Jamal has a far superior midrange game and is comfortable pulling up all over the court. He doesnt need to just camp behind the 3 pt line.

- Jamal is far superior breaking down defenders off the dribble and getting to the rim. As a two, you need to do that from time to time.

- Jamal is a proven "light-you-up" offensive scorer at times who would actually require opposing teams to adjust to him. Got a few 50 pt games, remember.

- Jamal can be #1 option in spurts to spell Melo and Stat.

- Jamal can be an adequate option at backup PG.

- Jamal has lots of experience and, as others have mentioned, he has shown a clutch factor and a mentality to go for the kill and hit some game winners. Does not fold under pressure.

- He has reined it in since his Knick days, and I think he now plays a bit smarter.

- Level-headed veteran presence in the locker room.

He wouldnt be my first choice for a two, but if he's available for the pieces previously mentioned (Balkman, TD, Walker) I would be happy to make that deal. Bonus: we get rid of Balkman!

Jamal gives us what we don't need - another ball-dominant player.

skeng wrote:I like how this thread has shifted its focus to alley oop passes - it's not like we're going to be throwing alleys every possesion. To me, the position needed to be upgraded is PG, and I don't see JC as that big an upgrade at the PG position at least. He's the best available guard right now, but I'm not too sure about having Bibby, Shump, TD and Jamal Crawford handling PG duties... Unless Phil Jax comes in as everyone jokes about these days.

I guess I would welcome both JC or Barea, but I kinda hoped on someone better, but I guess those are our options.

I agree with this. Justifying getting JC because of his ability to throw alley oops is a reach at best. We need floor general like Kidd, not another option on offense. But Jamal will make the other teams guard him that will open things up. On defense he is suspect but I think TD is overrated especially after TD vs. Rondo last year. Best of the two options? Maybe... But this doesn't make me happy.

If we can somehow land Barea and still can make a deal like this, we would've improved the team. Still, Im a little iffy about getting Crawford back. I'd rather we pursue Anthony Parker as a 2-guard or simply focus on getting a pure starting one. I know his name is always thrown out to the Knicks by fans while nothing gets insinuated in the media, but I'd happily trade for Sessions as I think he would be a solid starting PG and would make it easier to rotate the 1 and 2, as I think Iman Shumpert can be the backup to both positions, while we would have Bibby to be the third string PG and Walker as 3rd string shooting guard.

Knicksfan wrote:If we can somehow land Barea and still can make a deal like this, we would've improved the team. Still, Im a little iffy about getting Crawford back. I'd rather we pursue Anthony Parker as a 2-guard or simply focus on getting a pure starting one. I know his name is always thrown out to the Knicks by fans while nothing gets insinuated in the media, but I'd happily trade for Sessions as I think he would be a solid starting PG and would make it easier to rotate the 1 and 2, as I think Iman Shumpert can be the backup to both positions, while we would have Bibby to be the third string PG and Walker as 3rd string shooting guard.

I still see two holes we needed to fill....PG and SG

You may not like Bibby, I don't either....But I think TD and Bibby, with Shump can hold down the PG rotation.

The reason why I liked the JC trade was because he fills that consistent outside 3 pt threat to help spread the floor. Anthony Parker would fill that same need. JC is a special case, because he can also bring the ball down at the PG position.

We have jump shooters, but not consistent shooters....Bibby is going to be our best outside shooter right now.....If Shump can run the point, then I can see Bibby and TD as that outside threat.

BigSm00th wrote:please no. this makes no sense.

douglas is a perfect fit for this team. plays hard on D and knows his role.

what does crawford bring to the table? he is certainly not a distributor or a guy who runs an offense. he's an off-the-bench gunner and guy who is good at the end of games. we have melo, we have stoudemire; we need to fill players 3 through 10 in the rotation with guys who play D, who know their role, who don't demand the ball to be effective. crawford is NOT that guy.

I couldn't have said it better. Crawford is a matador on D

The supporting cast should be composed entirely of defenders. I'd welcome JC as sixth man, but as a starter replacing Douglas? Hell no. We don't need an offense superteam. Melo/Amare and solid defense can win a title.

If we in fact get Barea at the discount the rumor suggest, I wouldn't hesitate in acquiring Anthony Parker at the expense of Douglas to bring more balance at the 2. Im ok with Fields at 2, but we need somebody else and TD isn't the best alternative there and Walker isn't enough depth.

blkexec wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:"we know we can score the basketball, that's not a problem for us. our challenge is to keep teams under 100 points." -- carmelo anthony in the press conference today.

does trading our best PG defender (TD) for a guy who openly loafs through defensive assignments (crawford) help that? no.

Rondo torched TD in the playoffs....Saying he's our best PG defender doesn't hold much weight. Gary Payton isn't walking through the door. He was the last real lock down PG defender. JC would've done just as good as TD against Rondo. JC would also make Rondo play defense, which is another way to slow somebody down.

My point is simple, as far as defense goes, TD or JC....it doesn't really matter. Chandler is the key on defense. He will get the entire team to communicate and play defense....No more reverse finger roles or lolly pop layups from Rondo or any other player that attacks the rim. Everybody will actually have second thoughts now, when penetrating...Similar to the Patrick Ewing days.

Why you think Charlie Ward was such a good defender? He had good team defenders.....Solid Center and PF's who was great at playing help defense....Now we can play PG's a little closer on defense, knowing you have help behind you.....Ride their weak hand into the lane, right into the big guys. There's going to be lots of tip passes, block shots and fast breaks because of Chandler.....He's an actual defensive vocal leader on the floor, that forces everybody to step up their game on.....

good team D involves more than 1 guy.

do you remember that douglas had a torn labrum in his shoulder for the duration of the playoffs? he couldn't use one of his arms. not to mention the rest of the team wasn't playing any D. your argument is inconsistent.

chandler at the 5 is the backbone of the D, i agree. having douglas pressure the ball up front will make our D even better. have you seen JC on D? the guy doesn't try, or care. he's an offense-first player, something we have enough of.

Jason Richardson signed a deal for 4 year, $25 million. That's probably in the area of what Crawford can expect. I just don't see how we can make a Crawford deal under the cap with a full MLE.

Im remembering Craw as having to carry a heavy load at times and he is not a top tier player in that regard.

Im remembering his play at best under larry where he used his length to play defense and was effective feeding Eddy in motion. Pun intended.

Jamal is an upgrade on TD and perhaps this is more about moving TD to give time to Shump.

Im thinking with a frontcourt like ours there are some guards that will really be able to benefit from this. Jamal Can do everything well. Pick and roll with his length?

Nalod approves if the price is not silly.

Barea im not so sure of. He is erratic. Some big moments in playoffs but as a role player off the bench to turbocharge a second unit could work.

I don't think that Jamal is better than Douglas at this point in their careers. If we have give up either Douglas, Fields or Shumpert, we should pass.

if bibby starts,with fields
wouldnt it be good to have a scorer come off the bench especially in back to back to back games so stat and melo can rest for atleast 15 minutes?
i think everybody is looking at this like when crawford was first here when was supposed to score,now i think he just might come off the bench.
it mught be a luxury to have him here.

Knicks and Hawks working on a three team deal to get Crawford to NY.

NYPost_Berman Marc Berman
Told #Knicks and Hawks working on 3-team deal for Jamal Crawford with Douglas involved in one scenario
4 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

alanhahn Alan Hahn
Deal for Crawford, whom D'Antoni loved before Nov. 08 trade, would include team with cap space to help facilitate deal.

i can't believe people don't see the value in bringing jamal here. the guy can penetrate from the perimeter and get to the rim, run the pick and roll, get our bigs easy easy shots. he's a playmaker. unlike anyone we have here. comparing toney douglas to jamal crawford is just not accurate. jamal has a mid-range game. he's a perfect perfect fit here.

look at the passing and playmaking in this mix. not to mention all the buzzerbeaters. if we're in win now mode, there are aren't going to be too many players better than jamal we can add.