If you give credit to one guy, it's definitely Donnie. The house is sitting on his foundation
This isn't even a question. W/O Fonnie nothing else would happen.
SupremeCommander wrote:If you give credit to one guy, it's definitely Donnie. The house is sitting on his foundation
The thing is, Donnie didn't do anything spectacular. I'll give him credit for having a plan, executing it, and finally setting us on the right path, but none of his moves really scream of savvy or extraordinary GM'ing. We bombed the Jordan Hill draft, overpaid to get rid of Jeffries' salary, overpaid for Melo, missed out on the top 3 FA's for our 2010 plan (through no fault of Donnie's however), and I'm not sure we can even credit Amare's signing to him, since it was Amar'e who aggressively sought us out, rather than the other way around.
Grunwald's first move as GM was an absolute coup, signing the most coveted FA of 2011 when most thought we didn't have the cap space to sign anyone, and having the foresight to realize that no 2012 FA after Dwight, CP3, or Deron would be as good as Tyson. It remains to be seen how he does with the rest of his moves (drafts and trades), but Grunwald is off to a great start. The only negative I pin on him currently is his seeming love for Jamal Crawford, and willingness to give up assets in a S&T. I'm glad that that was rejected.
scoshin wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:If you give credit to one guy, it's definitely Donnie. The house is sitting on his foundation
The thing is, Donnie didn't do anything spectacular. I'll give him credit for having a plan, executing it, and finally setting us on the right path, but none of his moves really scream of savvy or extraordinary GM'ing. We bombed the Jordan Hill draft, overpaid to get rid of Jeffries' salary, overpaid for Melo, missed out on the top 3 FA's for our 2010 plan (through no fault of Donnie's however), and I'm not sure we can even credit Amare's signing to him, since it was Amar'e who aggressively sought us out, rather than the other way around.
Grunwald's first move as GM was an absolute coup, signing the most coveted FA of 2011 when most thought we didn't have the cap space to sign anyone, and having the foresight to realize that no 2012 FA after Dwight, CP3, or Deron would be as good as Tyson. It remains to be seen how he does with the rest of his moves (drafts and trades), but Grunwald is off to a great start. The only negative I pin on him currently is his seeming love for Jamal Crawford, and willingness to give up assets in a S&T. I'm glad that that was rejected.
Discount his plan, execution, and setting the Knicks up on the right path all you want, but none else had the stones to do that with the Knicks in a long friggin time. The organization is SIGNIFICANTLY improved, and that comment encompasses more than signings and what not
By the way, Grunwald doesn't have a chance at Chandler without Donnie's work ahead of time.
I picked Grunwald and the Chandler signing.
Walsh did a great job to get under the cap, but I think making the move for Chandler was unexpected. I never thought we had a chance to sign him, and he may turn out to be the key player that changes everything, covering up Melo & Stat on defense, and taking the weight off Stats back - and filling our biggest weaknesses: defense, blocked shots, rebounding.
SupremeCommander wrote:scoshin wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:If you give credit to one guy, it's definitely Donnie. The house is sitting on his foundation
The thing is, Donnie didn't do anything spectacular. I'll give him credit for having a plan, executing it, and finally setting us on the right path, but none of his moves really scream of savvy or extraordinary GM'ing. We bombed the Jordan Hill draft, overpaid to get rid of Jeffries' salary, overpaid for Melo, missed out on the top 3 FA's for our 2010 plan (through no fault of Donnie's however), and I'm not sure we can even credit Amare's signing to him, since it was Amar'e who aggressively sought us out, rather than the other way around.
Grunwald's first move as GM was an absolute coup, signing the most coveted FA of 2011 when most thought we didn't have the cap space to sign anyone, and having the foresight to realize that no 2012 FA after Dwight, CP3, or Deron would be as good as Tyson. It remains to be seen how he does with the rest of his moves (drafts and trades), but Grunwald is off to a great start. The only negative I pin on him currently is his seeming love for Jamal Crawford, and willingness to give up assets in a S&T. I'm glad that that was rejected.
Discount his plan, execution, and setting the Knicks up on the right path all you want, but none else had the stones to do that with the Knicks in a long friggin time. The organization is SIGNIFICANTLY improved, and that comment encompasses more than signings and what not
By the way, Grunwald doesn't have a chance at Chandler without Donnie's work ahead of time.
Supreme, I agree with you in that most of this is Donnie's work. The individual moves don't have to be spectacular or mind boggling. The collective unit is though and he deserved fate than the end of last season.... unless he simply wanted to go.
With that said, Grunwald seems to be doing a great job so far this offseason and Dolan is giving him what he needs, so credit goes down those avenues.
I still want to kill Dolan for loving Isiah.
SupremeCommander wrote:If you give credit to one guy, it's definitely Donnie. The house is sitting on his foundation
Who hired Donnie? Cause and Effect my friend. Dolan is a great owner and possibly loyal to a fault. The reason we were relevant during the 80's & 90's is that the Dolans' have no problem spending to improve the product.
IT turned out to be awful but, it was the result of Dolan listening to someone he had good reason to believe knew what he was taling about...Magic Johnson. When Mag turned down Dolans offer to run the Knicks he sold Dolan on the idea of hiring Isiah. It Turned out bad but who among us thought at the time that it was a bad decisions. He stayed with IT too long but that is because he is so loyal. That loyalty has hamstrung us a few time unfortunately. Isiah and the Houston signing which turned out to be an albatross.
Donnie was also suggested to him but, this time the suggestion turned out to be a good one so, Dolan gets the credit. If he gets the credit for the bad he should get the credit for the good too.
why isn't Isiah an option?
Layden!
Without him there would be no Isiah, and without Isiah, there is no Donnie!
I'd have to go with Donnie, cuz he set the goal and the identity. He hired D'Antoni and for better or worse this team has a style and a direction. Donnie maneuvered the roster and cap to not only get under it, but also pick up some decent young talent. Aside from drafting Hill, Donnie did a good job with mostly low picks. We still managed to have a nice group of youngsters, Iman, TD, Fields, Jorts, Jordan, Walker and maybe Shawne.
I'd put Dolan 2nd in that he and Ratner have planned this revival of the Garden and the team at precisely the same time. You can't do it any better. The New Garden fits the team and he's been spending unreal amounts of money to make this team and arena top notch.
3rd is Grunwald who has put the finishing touches on this team and looks to be more than capable of leading this franchise the rest of the way. He had the courage to say this team needed to forgo the 3 Superstar route and just make a great team that is built the right way. You can't really put together a more potent Frontcourt right now. ACT is good for 60 pts and 25 rebs a night. I think the team is going to be solid on D as well.
Shouldn't even be a question.
Walsh rebuilt this team. Without him, all of this is not possible.
Those giving to credit to Dolan for Walsh must remember that Dolan kept Isiah around solely because of his friendship with him. He did not care about the well-being of the Knicks. He cared about his friendship with Isiah, which I am going to assume was entirely one-sided. Dolan destroyed the franchise by keep Isiah Thomas around 2 years longer than what he should have. Thankfully the destruction wasn't completely irreparable and Donnie was able to come in (at Stern's behest) to clean up Dolan's mess.
And what does Donnie get for it? A big old "thank you, now GTFO" from Dolan. Real classy.
Donnie Walsh is the man. It's a shame he's no longer running the club.
Childs2Dudley wrote:Shouldn't even be a question.Walsh rebuilt this team. Without him, all of this is not possible.
Those giving to credit to Dolan for Walsh must remember that Dolan kept Isiah around solely because of his friendship with him. He did not care about the well-being of the Knicks. He cared about his friendship with Isiah, which I am going to assume was entirely one-sided. Dolan destroyed the franchise by keep Isiah Thomas around 2 years longer than what he should have. Thankfully the destruction wasn't completely irreparable and Donnie was able to come in (at Stern's behest) to clean up Dolan's mess.
And what does Donnie get for it? A big old "thank you, now GTFO" from Dolan. Real classy.
Donnie Walsh is the man. It's a shame he's no longer running the club.
take it one step further, Dolan hired Walsh which, in turn made it all possible. Once again, cause & effect. If we gonna blame him for the bad he should get props for the good
DurzoBlint wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:Shouldn't even be a question.Walsh rebuilt this team. Without him, all of this is not possible.
Those giving to credit to Dolan for Walsh must remember that Dolan kept Isiah around solely because of his friendship with him. He did not care about the well-being of the Knicks. He cared about his friendship with Isiah, which I am going to assume was entirely one-sided. Dolan destroyed the franchise by keep Isiah Thomas around 2 years longer than what he should have. Thankfully the destruction wasn't completely irreparable and Donnie was able to come in (at Stern's behest) to clean up Dolan's mess.
And what does Donnie get for it? A big old "thank you, now GTFO" from Dolan. Real classy.
Donnie Walsh is the man. It's a shame he's no longer running the club.
take it one step further, Dolan hired Walsh which, in turn made it all possible. Once again, cause & effect. If we gonna blame him for the bad he should get props for the good
Please stop with this.
Dolan has been awful for the franchise since he got involved with it in 1998.
Yes, 1998. The Dolans did not own the Knicks until 1994. Most of the Knicks success is pre-Dolan.
Childs2Dudley wrote:DurzoBlint wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:Shouldn't even be a question.Walsh rebuilt this team. Without him, all of this is not possible.
Those giving to credit to Dolan for Walsh must remember that Dolan kept Isiah around solely because of his friendship with him. He did not care about the well-being of the Knicks. He cared about his friendship with Isiah, which I am going to assume was entirely one-sided. Dolan destroyed the franchise by keep Isiah Thomas around 2 years longer than what he should have. Thankfully the destruction wasn't completely irreparable and Donnie was able to come in (at Stern's behest) to clean up Dolan's mess.
And what does Donnie get for it? A big old "thank you, now GTFO" from Dolan. Real classy.
Donnie Walsh is the man. It's a shame he's no longer running the club.
take it one step further, Dolan hired Walsh which, in turn made it all possible. Once again, cause & effect. If we gonna blame him for the bad he should get props for the good
Please stop with this.
Dolan has been awful for the franchise since he got involved with it in 1998.
Yes, 1998. The Dolans did not own the Knicks until 1994. Most of the Knicks success is pre-Dolan.
Which is why I referenced the Dolan(s) in my earlier post. Don't tell me to stop, be an adult and agree to disagree. Dolan is actually one of the better owners in the league. He made really poor decision once...hiring IT and that was because Magic Johnson sold him on the idea of Isiah when Magic turned down the GM job.
The guy was too loyal to Isiah but, he was also smart enough to take another suggestion and hire Walsh. What has he done so terrible for the level of distaste you are showing???
How many other GM's are so willing to spend as Dolan. How many others would have eaten Billups salary on top of adding to make us a winner. Guys want to bash him but he is actually one of the better GM's.
Remember he is not a basketball guy and he has tried to use people with greater basketball knowledge than himself to help him with the decision making. It hasn't always worked and IT was a disaster but you guys are far harder on him than he deserves.
Buck stops and starts with the owner and once again...who hired Walsh.
DurzoBlint wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:DurzoBlint wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:Shouldn't even be a question.Walsh rebuilt this team. Without him, all of this is not possible.
Those giving to credit to Dolan for Walsh must remember that Dolan kept Isiah around solely because of his friendship with him. He did not care about the well-being of the Knicks. He cared about his friendship with Isiah, which I am going to assume was entirely one-sided. Dolan destroyed the franchise by keep Isiah Thomas around 2 years longer than what he should have. Thankfully the destruction wasn't completely irreparable and Donnie was able to come in (at Stern's behest) to clean up Dolan's mess.
And what does Donnie get for it? A big old "thank you, now GTFO" from Dolan. Real classy.
Donnie Walsh is the man. It's a shame he's no longer running the club.
take it one step further, Dolan hired Walsh which, in turn made it all possible. Once again, cause & effect. If we gonna blame him for the bad he should get props for the good
Please stop with this.
Dolan has been awful for the franchise since he got involved with it in 1998.
Yes, 1998. The Dolans did not own the Knicks until 1994. Most of the Knicks success is pre-Dolan.
Which is why I referenced the Dolan(s) in my earlier post. Don't tell me to stop, be an adult and agree to disagree. Dolan is actually one of the better owners in the league. He made really poor decision once...hiring IT and that was because Magic Johnson sold him on the idea of Isiah when Magic turned down the GM job.
The guy was too loyal to Isiah but, he was also smart enough to take another suggestion and hire Walsh. What has he done so terrible for the level of distaste you are showing???
James Dolan was the reason why we were in such a hole to begin with. Let's give him a free pass and blame Magic Johnson for Isiah while we try and give more credit to Dolan for Walsh.
I have no patience to discuss how great Dolan has been anymore.
then don't. Be an adult and agree to disagree.
I bet you were happy as hell when we first got Isiah and when he brought in Steph.
Walsh, hands down, put your hands down, because without Donnie none of the big moves would be possible. He is the King of Big Apples.
DurzoBlint wrote:then don't. Be an adult and agree to disagree. I bet you were happy as hell when we first got Isiah and when he brought in Steph.
Hey look, you're acting like an adult. I should learn from you by making presumptions about someone to bolster a weak argument.
I guess I'll do the same.
I bet you loved most, if not all, of Isiah's trades.
Oh wait, you did.
Childs2Dudley wrote:DurzoBlint wrote:then don't. Be an adult and agree to disagree. I bet you were happy as hell when we first got Isiah and when he brought in Steph.
Hey look, you're acting like an adult. I should learn from you by making presumptions about someone to bolster a weak argument.
I guess I'll do the same.
I bet you loved most, if not all, of Isiah's trades.
Oh wait, you did.
And this is the type of exchange which initially drew me into this community and nudged me towards making the leap to contributing membership.
Stay classy.
MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:Childs2Dudley wrote:DurzoBlint wrote:then don't. Be an adult and agree to disagree. I bet you were happy as hell when we first got Isiah and when he brought in Steph.
Hey look, you're acting like an adult. I should learn from you by making presumptions about someone to bolster a weak argument.
I guess I'll do the same.
I bet you loved most, if not all, of Isiah's trades.
Oh wait, you did.
And this is the type of exchange which initially drew me into this community and nudged me towards making the leap to contributing membership.
Stay classy.
no I did not ^ but, if it pleases you to fabricate things go ahead. Instead of providing an argument for your opinion, you make a blanket statement with nothing to back it up. I gave a concise reasoning for my feeling.
Also, I don't remember insulting you either! Asking you to agree to disagree (as adults do) is no insult (as far as I'm aware of). Hows about respecting other peoples opinions because even though I disagree, I have respect for yours.
