Knicks · How Long Does It Take A Roster Of Strangers To Play As One? (page 2)

also Chandler, Amare and Baron Davis all love MDA. Melo seems on the fence. I bet that changes pretty soon

misterearl wrote:The team's success, according to Magic Johnson, comes down to how their two scoring stars co-exist.

"They were never in sync last season, so coach (Mike) D'Antoni has to figure out how to get them in sync and how to get them to play with each other and off of each other," Johnson said. "They're not even used to working with each other. It's going to take a while for them to figure out where each other likes to be, where am I supposed to be on offense?"

"Fans got to be patient, but number one, the players have got to be patient," Johnson said. "If they don't get off to a early good start, they've got to stick with it. Because once they get it down, they're going to be battling with Chicago and Miami for the Eastern Conference championship."

I agree, they weren't as dominant together as we thought they would be. They didn't coexist very well together, as they both looked more comfortable being the go to guy but not utilizing their benefits together very well. However, our team really had a big change after the trade, our our lineup starters, roles of backups, system, philosophy of SSOL, mixed with no training camp, time together, *PnR* PG, our lineup and depth wasn't there, mixed with no Center to go with PG, off bench players, *only shawne, then TD when Billups was back*

It is going to take some times, for the coaching staff and players to adjust to each other. Having a training camp helps, but its not the usual camp, and its a whole new core.
Although the talent is there, we still actually aren't that deep yet, we have to let the players learn their roles, how to play with each other, how to adjust the 2nd/3rd units.
We should get better with more games/practices, but with this shortened season, there isn't as much practice and time, mixed with fatigue as well.

Everything you guys said, there truth in it. As great as our the acquisitions and talent has increased after the trade, its still a new thing for most of players.
We will have players learning their own challenges, as well as the coaches, the team as a whole, the 6th men, our 2nd/3rd units play as a team and unit...

I agree Fish the Boston comparison is a good one this isn't felton, gallo, wilson & fields trying to not only get accustomed to Amare & the team but to the nba in general. Whereas Amare, melo, tyson & davis know what they have to do. My only concern is how does Melo & Amare coexist on the floor together. This is where having Davis running point instead of TD is HUGE

fishmike wrote:also Chandler, Amare and Baron Davis all love MDA. Melo seems on the fence. I bet that changes pretty soon

I actually think Melo is ecstatic about how much faith MDA is placing in him. NO ONE has ever said to Melo we're gonna run the offense thru you. He's gotten a ton of shots, but to have your coach say he has this much faith in you is a much different thing. We've all read what Alan Hahn said about Melo so far.

Melo very engaged in practice this season. A lot of discussion/input about O and D strategy. He's also now running the point full-time.

Mike said he thought Melo could do this even last year, now they've had the time to put it into practice. The early games will be a bit like preseason games, but that doesn't mean the Knicks won't win them.

fishmike wrote:No team w/ Chandler, Amare and Melo are going to struggle against these inferior teams. I think you will see a similar pattern you saw with the Heat last year... we cleanup on the NBA's bottom half and play .500 against the top half.

Just sayin' an opening night win sets a wonderful tone and would be an awesome momentum builder.

Fish,

what was Bostons big three record after 15-25-33 games? Might be a good comparison.

Since you so compared......

If Rondo was the wild card that season, and I think he was the difference maker, then we don't yet know who steps up and provides us the boost.

Nalod,
If memory serves me correctly, the Celtics were SCARY GOOD from the onset that year.
BIGCATS

Momentum

Olbrannon - the Christmas Day opener vs Boston will be intense. The Knicks should have a sleepover in The Garden... or at least The Marriott Marquis next to Grand Central Station.

The casual fan will have high expectations for instant bonding. A few of us know better. The again, there were hoards of writers who thought Earl and Clyde would need two basketballs. The best thing about this roster - albeit on paper and via second hand reports - is that the Elders appear down with the prime directive - "you suck, you sit."

It's all about getting the ring baby - anyone who isn't ready to hit the floor is not ready to do whatever it takes.

Hit the open man.

I am really not yet seeing how this comes together. If we try to play SSOL and focus the offense through Melo like MDA seems to be indiating - I have no idea what would happen? This team is not built for speed the way the Suns were. We are not going to be slow by any means but I would feel more comfortable witha traditional offense. Having said that till BD is in the mix we have only Bibby who is a known commodity in running an offense with any efficiency. I also don't want Melo to start playing outside all the time, he has a wide array of moves inside the paint and SSOL may not be conducive to that.... I guess am just confused on how this will come together. Melo isn't Grant Hill.

loweyecue wrote:I am really not yet seeing how this comes together. If we try to play SSOL and focus the offense through Melo like MDA seems to be indiating - I have no idea what would happen? This team is not built for speed the way the Suns were. We are not going to be slow by any means but I would feel more comfortable witha traditional offense. Having said that till BD is in the mix we have only Bibby who is a known commodity in running an offense with any efficiency. I also don't want Melo to start playing outside all the time, he has a wide array of moves inside the paint and SSOL may not be conducive to that.... I guess am just confused on how this will come together. Melo isn't Grant Hill.

It's simple. Since MDA has been here, this team hasn't been able to run SSOL, so it's not an issue. There was ALWAYS more to the SSOL offense than people thought. It's never been just running up an down. The Suns were perfectly built to run even off of makes. NONE of the teams we've had since MDA has been here have been built for that kind of pace. STILL the teams have been high scoring. So don't worry about the team being able to run SSOL cuz we're not going to be running 100% SSOL. We will be using the VAST other parts of MDA's offense that no one ever talks about.

There's a reason they call him an offensive genius. You think all he knows is SSOL? MDA is so knowledgeable that he can come up with other ways to score the ball with different types of players. If he hasn't proved that to you by now I don't know what you've been watching cuz this team has still managed to score at a high clip despite the lack of a roster built to run.

loweyecue wrote:I am really not yet seeing how this comes together. If we try to play SSOL and focus the offense through Melo like MDA seems to be indiating - I have no idea what would happen? This team is not built for speed the way the Suns were. We are not going to be slow by any means but I would feel more comfortable witha traditional offense. Having said that till BD is in the mix we have only Bibby who is a known commodity in running an offense with any efficiency. I also don't want Melo to start playing outside all the time, he has a wide array of moves inside the paint and SSOL may not be conducive to that.... I guess am just confused on how this will come together. Melo isn't Grant Hill.

I happen to think that they'll play more of a traditional offense and less SSOL. It certainly won't be the same thing we saw before the trade or in Phoenix. For me it's pretty safe to say that New York will put up points because D'Antoni made his offense work running it through David Lee. It's the other end of the ball that's concerning.

Even out of sync we will be just too much for most teams. We will struggle a little against the top tier in the 1st half but should be competitive. we have a deeper roster than the heat last season so that losing to teams over 0.500 all the time shouldn't happen.

You guys are right. I guess I am overreacting to the chaos. Only one starter left from last season, no time together. Just seems like a lot.

I think the big difference is going to be the defense. It is such a huge change having Tyson. Tyson is basically the QB of the defense. He's calling the plays and making sure guys are in the right place and most of all he's active and giving help. In truth the Knicks D was actually better than it often looked. What really killed us was 2nd chance points. Not being able to finish off a defensive stand was a huge problem. By rebounding better this team can make a big improvement on D. That will lead to more easy points.

D'Antoni's teams are 17-28 out of the gate for the first fifteen games during the three years he has been in NY. He has traditionally needed 15 +games to figure things out after training camp during his tenure here. That being said he has an amazing amount of talent this year so his impact during his figuring out period probably will be minimized. My prediction is 8-7 15 games in with a win streak on the horizon.

CrushAlot wrote:D'Antoni's teams are 17-28 out of the gate for the first fifteen games during the three years he has been in NY. He has traditionally needed 15 +games to figure things out after training camp during his tenure here. That being said he has an amazing amount of talent this year so his impact during his figuring out period probably will be minimized. My prediction is 8-7 15 games in with a win streak on the horizon.

those teams where DLee was C are definitely indicative of what may happen here. Add to that the prediction of 30 win seasons.

Hold on to you hat.

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:D'Antoni's teams are 17-28 out of the gate for the first fifteen games during the three years he has been in NY. He has traditionally needed 15 +games to figure things out after training camp during his tenure here. That being said he has an amazing amount of talent this year so his impact during his figuring out period probably will be minimized. My prediction is 8-7 15 games in with a win streak on the horizon.

those teams where DLee was C are definitely indicative of what may happen here. Add to that the prediction of 30 win seasons.

Hold on to you hat.

So far we have good health and more talent. There's been less time to prepare, but every team is facing the same thing. This team has enough talent that they could win even tho the chemistry isn't all the way there yet. The most important thing is the defensive effort. If they play hard and as a team on D, then I don't predict there to be a slow start. Early on the defense can make up for a slow start on offense.

My hope is that MDA is given the time and patience by the players to get it right. We have seen the system work in short bursts here and in PHX and it produces results.

WE have to get it down, then implement Baron into it as he is able.

I would be discouraged to hear "simplify the defensive scheme and slow down the offense" as we did with Melo and Billups. I don't expect that.

TD is the wild card this season.

loweyecue wrote:You guys are right. I guess I am overreacting to the chaos. Only one starter left from last season, no time together. Just seems like a lot.

loweyecue - you are not overreacting. There will be chaos. Where most NBA rosters are going through introductions, I cannot think of any who have had as much turnover over the last six months. The Carmelo Anthony deal was traumatic enough, as it gutted the heart and soul of the group. Shawne Williams being signed by the Nets was a loss of a skill set to be certain, but it was more than that. Shawne felt like one of the family.

We watched him restart his pro career from scratch after Donnie Walsh gave him a third chance to get it right. Shawne Williams made us proud. He was one of the underdogs guys who took advantage of an opportunity and did good. We FELT his triumph over his substance abuse demons and no-good Memphis homeys. We were primed to see the next chapter and anticipated the beauty of his three's raining from the corner.

Then he was gone.

Melodramatic? Of course it is. And there is not a poster here who did not feel a slight pinch when Extra E was signed by the Nets. And the locker room changes as well. The balance of personalities and ego is a delicate one. Who's gunna take the weight?

The Nouveau Knicks must walk through a few fires as a unit to become a team. There is no preseason. There is December to get your locker assignment, January - to work out some kinks, February - to adjust to the inevitable injuries (add BDizzle) and make another trade. March starts the playoff push. April is when all hell breaks loose.

Fasten Your Seat Belts

Nalod wrote:My hope is that MDA is given the time and patience by the players to get it right. We have seen the system work in short bursts here and in PHX and it produces results.

WE have to get it down, then implement Baron into it as he is able.

I would be discouraged to hear "simplify the defensive scheme and slow down the offense" as we did with Melo and Billups. I don't expect that.

TD is the wild card this season.

There is more to it than time and patience. The players need to buy in as well. Last year after the trade it was clear some players especially Billups didn't buy into it. And he and others were egged on by the media to unload a bunch of criticism on the coach. Billups isn't able to defend quick guards but that didn't prevent him from blaming the system.

I guess I am tired of hearing players use the system as a cop out for not performing and fans and media encouraging that activity.

This is not to suggest the system or the coach is flawless, but the players need to let the coach do the coaching and they should focus on execution.

From his arrival in 2008, through the end of last season, D'Antoni has coached 49 players — the most in the N.B.A. over that period, and the equivalent of four teams.

“We’ve got a good team and good guys,” D’Antoni said. “I’m going to enjoy this year no matter what.” He quickly added, “It’s easier said than done.”

The truth is, the Knicks are effectively a brand-new team, with no established chemistry, a thin bench and precious little time to work out the kinks because of the lockout-shortened schedule.

The Knicks have seven new players, two new starters and a former All-Star point guard — Baron Davis — waiting to join the fray once his back heals. Even Anthony, the new face of the team, just arrived in February.

The starting backcourt features a third-year point guard, Toney Douglas, and a second-year shooting guard, Landry Fields. Two rookies could be in the rotation.

Every team is dealing with a short two-week training camp and a compressed 66-game schedule that will hardly allow for practice time. But it will be harder on teams with multiple new faces.

- Howard Beck, NYT

“It does seem like the third team I’ve played for since I’ve been in New York,” said Stoudemire, who arrived 18 months ago. “But I’d rather play for the third team right now, because we’re looking pretty good.”