Knicks · Anyone else worried about Amar'e? He looks limited, no explosion... (page 2)

People are so hyped up about the addition of Chandler on defense (understandably), they aren't noticing the issues with Amare.

Amare had traditionally done one thing (and only one thing) extremely well as a basketball player. He scored very efficiently FINISHING at the basket. The thing is, he has always done that best when playing "C" because he was too quick for traditional Cs and could drive past them or get the ball from a great passer like Nash. His scoring efficiency has always been worse when playing against PFs because they are quicker and also more willing to come outside and defend his mid range jumper near the foul line.

Now he's going to be playing PF, we have no PG with anywhere near the passing skills of Nash (even Felton was a lot better), Chandler is going to be clogging the middle more often, and Amare gained 20 pounds and appears a step slower. To me, gaining that 20 pounds was mistake. All it's going to do is reduce his advantage. He's not a power player!

You can already see that Amare is going to be settling for more mid range jumpers (which he is just an average ball player at) or trying to create off the dribble more and turning the ball over.

Personally, I think the Knicks offense is not going be nearly as good as many people believe. It will certainly still be good, but expectations are too high.

ItalianStallion wrote:People are so hyped up about the addition of Chandler on defense (understandably), they aren't noticing the issues with Amare.

Amare had traditionally done one thing (and only one thing) extremely well as a basketball player. He scored very efficiently FINISHING at the basket. The thing is, he has always done that best when playing "C" because he was too quick for traditional Cs and could drive past them or get the ball from a great passer like Nash. His scoring efficiency has always been worse when playing against PFs because they are quicker and also more willing to come outside and defend his mid range jumper near the foul line.

Now he's going to be playing PF, we have no PG with anywhere near the passing skills of Nash (even Felton was a lot better), Chandler is going to be clogging the middle more often, and Amare gained 20 pounds and appears a step slower. To me, gaining that 20 pounds was mistake. All it's going to do is reduce his advantage. He's not a power player!

You can already see that Amare is going to be settling for more mid range jumpers (which he is just an average ball player at) or trying to create off the dribble more and turning the ball over.

Personally, I think the Knicks offense is not going be nearly as good as many people believe. It will certainly still be good, but expectations are too high.

+1 to all this.

edit: though i wonder if the extra weight will actually help him stay more durable throughout the season. could be a net plus in the end.

Wow, 2 preseason games in a shortened season with a shortened camp, and we are already being Debbie downer. They all look rusty, but amare is probably taking it easy. Should he be posterizing people in the preseason?

He looked active to me, around the rim. Last year, he was the first and second option most nights. He has help now. I just hope his jumper returns, that opens everything up.

Michael6835 wrote:Wow, 2 preseason games in a shortened season with a shortened camp, and we are already being Debbie downer. They all look rusty, but amare is probably taking it easy. Should he be posterizing people in the preseason?

He looked active to me, around the rim. Last year, he was the first and second option most nights. He has help now. I just hope his jumper returns, that opens everything up.

Is she related to Betty Bummer? Kathy Killjoy? Sally Sourpuss?

Panos wrote:

KNICKSBIGCATS wrote:My sense is that it'll take Amare a while (? 5 games ?)
before we see the same player that we saw last year.
I'm seeing alot of rust there on top of having to adjust to his role in the offense
now that Tyson is here. I agree that patience is necessary.

It'll be interesting if in the end, he actually prefers being the center...

I doubt that'll happen. He's played next to centers before; he played with Shaq and Robin Lopez in Phoenix and he always said he preferred that. In 07-08 he put up 25ppg, 9rpg, and 59%fg playing next to Shaq and in 09-10 23ppg, 9rpg, and 55%fg playing next to Robin Lopez. Those are two of the three best years in his career, the other one coming in 04-05 (26ppg, 9rpg, and 55%fg), a year before he hurt his knee.

STAT will be fine. Super short camp & 2 pre season games doesn't have me worried at all. We're going to see some ugly ball for at least 5-7 games. Everyoone will be like "Amare is beasting" once Baron starts running the point and starts throwing around sick passes. Amare is getting older and is not going to be posterizing players like he did when he was 22 but we'll see some sick dunks from the man this year.

Erniecat wrote:

Michael6835 wrote:Wow, 2 preseason games in a shortened season with a shortened camp, and we are already being Debbie downer. They all look rusty, but amare is probably taking it easy. Should he be posterizing people in the preseason?

He looked active to me, around the rim. Last year, he was the first and second option most nights. He has help now. I just hope his jumper returns, that opens everything up.

Is she related to Betty Bummer? Kathy Killjoy? Sally Sourpuss?

Debbie Downer, nee Does-Dallas.

ItalianStallion wrote:People are so hyped up about the addition of Chandler on defense (understandably), they aren't noticing the issues with Amare.

Amare had traditionally done one thing (and only one thing) extremely well as a basketball player. He scored very efficiently FINISHING at the basket. The thing is, he has always done that best when playing "C" because he was too quick for traditional Cs and could drive past them or get the ball from a great passer like Nash. His scoring efficiency has always been worse when playing against PFs because they are quicker and also more willing to come outside and defend his mid range jumper near the foul line.

Now he's going to be playing PF, we have no PG with anywhere near the passing skills of Nash (even Felton was a lot better), Chandler is going to be clogging the middle more often, and Amare gained 20 pounds and appears a step slower. To me, gaining that 20 pounds was mistake. All it's going to do is reduce his advantage. He's not a power player!

You can already see that Amare is going to be settling for more mid range jumpers (which he is just an average ball player at) or trying to create off the dribble more and turning the ball over.

Personally, I think the Knicks offense is not going be nearly as good as many people believe. It will certainly still be good, but expectations are too high.

One of the most insightful posts about the new Knicks, ever.

Did Amar'e consult with an orthopedist before adding the extra weight? Did he listen to his knees barking? Those fragile joints will bear the extra load and from what we know they are already on the tender side. Add in four games in five nights and you have a recipe for disaster. That is reality.

D'Antoni would be wise to monitor Stoudemire's minutes, and conditioning, carefully. If that means sitting out entire weeks, so be it. We will need Amar'e much more in March than we will need him in January.

Josh Harrelson becomes the X factor. If he can contribute quality minutes at forward, it will be a huge benefit. Jorts shooting range is a perfect compliment to Tyson Chandler's inside game - and his rebounding is a bonus. Remember, even Patrick Ewing needed a bodyguard (Oak).

One more thing - Stoudemire cannot think about creating off the dribble. He needs to hit the open man.

Walt Frazier: "Pass the ball man!"

ItalianStallion wrote:..
Now he's going to be playing PF, we have no PG with anywhere near the passing skills of Nash (even Felton was a lot better), Chandler is going to be clogging the middle more often, and Amare gained 20 pounds and appears a step slower. To me, gaining that 20 pounds was mistake. All it's going to do is reduce his advantage. He's not a power player!

You can already see that Amare is going to be settling for more mid range jumpers (which he is just an average ball player at) or trying to create off the dribble more and turning the ball over.

Personally, I think the Knicks offense is not going be nearly as good as many people believe. It will certainly still be good, but expectations are too high.

Baron Davis? Excellent pick and roll PG, excellent all-around passer. All my assertions about the potential success of this team assume health and effectiveness from BD.

Also, I do see Amar'e focusing on his mid range game which was a big part of his scoring last year. His 18-footer was money all last year. To play devil's advocate vs. ITalian Stallion, I can see Amar'e sort of slipping under the radar a bit with Melo certain to take the lead role. That's when he (Amar'e) can actually take opponents by surprise. I believe he will be very effective being the #2 offensive threat. On many nights he will thrash the opposition, depending on matchups. At this point I am not worried based on what I have seen.

misterearl wrote:

ItalianStallion wrote:People are so hyped up about the addition of Chandler on defense (understandably), they aren't noticing the issues with Amare.

Amare had traditionally done one thing (and only one thing) extremely well as a basketball player. He scored very efficiently FINISHING at the basket. The thing is, he has always done that best when playing "C" because he was too quick for traditional Cs and could drive past them or get the ball from a great passer like Nash. His scoring efficiency has always been worse when playing against PFs because they are quicker and also more willing to come outside and defend his mid range jumper near the foul line.

Now he's going to be playing PF, we have no PG with anywhere near the passing skills of Nash (even Felton was a lot better), Chandler is going to be clogging the middle more often, and Amare gained 20 pounds and appears a step slower. To me, gaining that 20 pounds was mistake. All it's going to do is reduce his advantage. He's not a power player!

You can already see that Amare is going to be settling for more mid range jumpers (which he is just an average ball player at) or trying to create off the dribble more and turning the ball over.

Personally, I think the Knicks offense is not going be nearly as good as many people believe. It will certainly still be good, but expectations are too high.

One of the most insightful posts about the new Knicks, ever.

Did Amar'e consult with an orthopedist before adding the extra weight? Did he listen to his knees barking? Those fragile joints will bear the extra load and from what we know they are already on the tender side. Add in four games in five nights and you have a recipe for disaster. That is reality.

D'Antoni would be wise to monitor Stoudemire's minutes, and conditioning, carefully. If that means sitting out entire weeks, so be it. We will need Amar'e much more in March than we will need him in January.

Josh Harrelson becomes the X factor. If he can contribute quality minutes at forward, it will be a huge benefit. Jorts shooting range is a perfect compliment to Tyson Chandler's inside game - and his rebounding is a bonus. Remember, even Patrick Ewing needed a bodyguard (Oak).

One more thing - Stoudemire cannot think about creating off the dribble. He needs to hit the open man.

Walt Frazier: "Pass the ball man!"

While your analysis is logical, it lacks important details: For example, it's not just weight gain, it's how the weight is distributed. Amare is a smart guy who listens to advice. He most likely added strength in his legs and back, which is EXACTLY what he should do to protect his vulnerabilities. Anyone who has had knee surgeries knows that strengthening (i.e., which adds muscle weight) is how you protect those squeeky joints, especially the large muscle groups like hammies and quads.

As for explosiveness, it's not an imperative that Amare look like the old version. He is adapting to his new role as the #2 scorer, taking his mid-range game more seriously and focusing on defense and team play. From my perspective, he's doing all the right things to improve his contributions and protect himself as a key team asset.

Time will tell. Please bookmark this thread Answer Man and let us know how it turns out.

Moonangie wrote:

misterearl wrote:

ItalianStallion wrote:People are so hyped up about the addition of Chandler on defense (understandably), they aren't noticing the issues with Amare.

Amare had traditionally done one thing (and only one thing) extremely well as a basketball player. He scored very efficiently FINISHING at the basket. The thing is, he has always done that best when playing "C" because he was too quick for traditional Cs and could drive past them or get the ball from a great passer like Nash. His scoring efficiency has always been worse when playing against PFs because they are quicker and also more willing to come outside and defend his mid range jumper near the foul line.

Now he's going to be playing PF, we have no PG with anywhere near the passing skills of Nash (even Felton was a lot better), Chandler is going to be clogging the middle more often, and Amare gained 20 pounds and appears a step slower. To me, gaining that 20 pounds was mistake. All it's going to do is reduce his advantage. He's not a power player!

You can already see that Amare is going to be settling for more mid range jumpers (which he is just an average ball player at) or trying to create off the dribble more and turning the ball over.

Personally, I think the Knicks offense is not going be nearly as good as many people believe. It will certainly still be good, but expectations are too high.

One of the most insightful posts about the new Knicks, ever.

Did Amar'e consult with an orthopedist before adding the extra weight? Did he listen to his knees barking? Those fragile joints will bear the extra load and from what we know they are already on the tender side. Add in four games in five nights and you have a recipe for disaster. That is reality.

D'Antoni would be wise to monitor Stoudemire's minutes, and conditioning, carefully. If that means sitting out entire weeks, so be it. We will need Amar'e much more in March than we will need him in January.

Josh Harrelson becomes the X factor. If he can contribute quality minutes at forward, it will be a huge benefit. Jorts shooting range is a perfect compliment to Tyson Chandler's inside game - and his rebounding is a bonus. Remember, even Patrick Ewing needed a bodyguard (Oak).

One more thing - Stoudemire cannot think about creating off the dribble. He needs to hit the open man.

Walt Frazier: "Pass the ball man!"

While your analysis is logical, it lacks important details: For example, it's not just weight gain, it's how the weight is distributed. Amare is a smart guy who listens to advice. He most likely added strength in his legs and back, which is EXACTLY what he should do to protect his vulnerabilities. Anyone who has had knee surgeries knows that strengthening (i.e., which adds muscle weight) is how you protect those squeeky joints, especially the large muscle groups like hammies and quads.

As for explosiveness, it's not an imperative that Amare look like the old version. He is adapting to his new role as the #2 scorer, taking his mid-range game more seriously and focusing on defense and team play. From my perspective, he's doing all the right things to improve his contributions and protect himself as a key team asset.

Time will tell. Please bookmark this thread Answer Man and let us know how it turns out.

Well put. I've never seen any research indicating that adding muscle and strength is bad for your knees or back.

ItalianStallion wrote:People are so hyped up about the addition of Chandler on defense (understandably), they aren't noticing the issues with Amare.

Amare had traditionally done one thing (and only one thing) extremely well as a basketball player. He scored very efficiently FINISHING at the basket. The thing is, he has always done that best when playing "C" because he was too quick for traditional Cs and could drive past them or get the ball from a great passer like Nash. His scoring efficiency has always been worse when playing against PFs because they are quicker and also more willing to come outside and defend his mid range jumper near the foul line.

Now he's going to be playing PF, we have no PG with anywhere near the passing skills of Nash (even Felton was a lot better), Chandler is going to be clogging the middle more often, and Amare gained 20 pounds and appears a step slower. To me, gaining that 20 pounds was mistake. All it's going to do is reduce his advantage. He's not a power player!

You can already see that Amare is going to be settling for more mid range jumpers (which he is just an average ball player at) or trying to create off the dribble more and turning the ball over.

Personally, I think the Knicks offense is not going be nearly as good as many people believe. It will certainly still be good, but expectations are too high.

It's the game plan...It was stated in the preseason workouts that Amare will not be going to be basket as frequently anymore...Chandler will be the primary pick and roll guy...Amare will now be playing more on the perimeter...That's MDA's call...I don't agree with it, but it's his call...

holfresh wrote:

ItalianStallion wrote:People are so hyped up about the addition of Chandler on defense (understandably), they aren't noticing the issues with Amare.

Amare had traditionally done one thing (and only one thing) extremely well as a basketball player. He scored very efficiently FINISHING at the basket. The thing is, he has always done that best when playing "C" because he was too quick for traditional Cs and could drive past them or get the ball from a great passer like Nash. His scoring efficiency has always been worse when playing against PFs because they are quicker and also more willing to come outside and defend his mid range jumper near the foul line.

Now he's going to be playing PF, we have no PG with anywhere near the passing skills of Nash (even Felton was a lot better), Chandler is going to be clogging the middle more often, and Amare gained 20 pounds and appears a step slower. To me, gaining that 20 pounds was mistake. All it's going to do is reduce his advantage. He's not a power player!

You can already see that Amare is going to be settling for more mid range jumpers (which he is just an average ball player at) or trying to create off the dribble more and turning the ball over.

Personally, I think the Knicks offense is not going be nearly as good as many people believe. It will certainly still be good, but expectations are too high.

It's the game plan...It was stated in the preseason workouts that Amare will not be going to be basket as frequently anymore...Chandler will be the primary pick and roll guy...Amare will now be playing more on the perimeter...That's MDA's call...I don't agree with it, but it's his call...

Offensive sets are sometimes called by a head coach, especially when they come up the court too slowly and cal a half court set. But many times it's just an improv, based on the circumstances. Amare will be doing plenty of dunking and posterizing, it just won't be called for him as much in a set half court offense. Which is good, because Tyson can dunk on foos just fine with setus from BDiddy and Melo (et al). Amare will get his, too. This is going to be fun, especially with Amare stretching the floor by shooting mid rangers.

Amare will be back when Baron is off the shelf.

From what I saw, Amar'e went to the basket a number of times on Wednesday night and looked pretty strong. It's kind of like Fields. He missed a number of his shots so suddenly he's on the decline and Fields is the "Second round pick he really is" but nobody took the time to see that Amar'e is moving pretty well and playing strong, and Fields actually played quite aggressive and showed some promise.

Don't let missed shots fool you. It's called sloppiness and it's going to happen with a number of players this early, and it may even carry on into the regular season.

Allanfan20 wrote:From what I saw, Amar'e went to the basket a number of times on Wednesday night and looked pretty strong. It's kind of like Fields. He missed a number of his shots so suddenly he's on the decline and Fields is the "Second round pick he really is" but nobody took the time to see that Amar'e is moving pretty well and playing strong, and Fields actually played quite aggressive and showed some promise.

Don't let missed shots fool you. It's called sloppiness and it's going to happen with a number of players this early, and it may even carry on into the regular season.

I totally agree with you...I have said as much about Fields...i thought Fields was very aggressive going to the basket, more than last year...He just missed a few shots..Amare looks strong to me as well...Maybe some are too fixated on the box score...

He's still got a great touch around the basket but he does look limited.

21 points, 8 of 11 shooting, 2 for 2 from 3, 6 boards, 2 blocks, 2 steals.

I think his role has changed with Chandler here and he has to adjust. I also think the team is set up more to run a half court offense featuring Melo. Both Amare and D'Antoni are going to have to make adjustments but I think the team will be very good.

babyKnicks wrote:21 points, 8 of 11 shooting, 2 for 2 from 3, 6 boards, 2 blocks, 2 steals.

All That against the Top defending Power Forward in the League.

FoeDiddy wrote:

babyKnicks wrote:21 points, 8 of 11 shooting, 2 for 2 from 3, 6 boards, 2 blocks, 2 steals.

All That against the Top defending Power Forward in the League.

He didn't look like himself against the Nets either. I don't think Amare is suffering physically. I think he is adjusting to playing with Tyson in a halfcourt style where the offense runs through Anthony.