Knicks · Building around our core (page 1)
Takes time to build it.
Your seeing the rotation shorten as the "preseason" is coming to a close. Takes time for chemistry to form, and coaches to know the players.
Team is 3-4.
Whats the Plan? Read the media to get the homogenized version or read the many pretend insiders who seem to know more than the actual participants themselves.
Changes will happen, but not the break neck pace we'd like to see.
Did you watch the game last nite?
You saw progress in spurts. Thats how it starts.
The team will regress at times. Its not a linear progression.
How do I know? I don't. Just seems to be how teams work over the many years I have been following NBA.
Less can be more.
EnySpree wrote:I think things are beginning to fix themselves. Shump is the pleasant surprise. Baron is going to be good there is no question. When td and Landry go to the bench. Things will open up. Getting Kenyon Martin would be a God send and would solidify the rotation.
Agree, hated K-Mart as a Net, but he'd be a perfect fit for the 2nd unit here. Plays D and can hit some shots.
ChuckBuck wrote:EnySpree wrote:I think things are beginning to fix themselves. Shump is the pleasant surprise. Baron is going to be good there is no question. When td and Landry go to the bench. Things will open up. Getting Kenyon Martin would be a God send and would solidify the rotation.Agree, hated K-Mart as a Net, but he'd be a perfect fit for the 2nd unit here. Plays D and can hit some shots.
Martin is definitely the ideal big man off the bench. Hopefully his relationship with Melo is enough to get him here.
Nalod wrote:This is the team. Not a fantasy one or a video game.Takes time to build it.
Your seeing the rotation shorten as the "preseason" is coming to a close. Takes time for chemistry to form, and coaches to know the players.
Team is 3-4.
Whats the Plan? Read the media to get the homogenized version or read the many pretend insiders who seem to know more than the actual participants themselves.
Changes will happen, but not the break neck pace we'd like to see.
Did you watch the game last nite?
You saw progress in spurts. Thats how it starts.
The team will regress at times. Its not a linear progression.
How do I know? I don't. Just seems to be how teams work over the many years I have been following NBA.
Less can be more.
Thanks, you have been the voice of reason in the early part. Teams taking shape is painful and frustrating to watch, what makes it even more irritating is people repeating long held beliefs in spite of everything that points to the contrary.
I think Melo has been better than expected, Tyson has shown flashes - I know he will come through with more consistency. STAT will be a beast once we get the PG situation sorted out. I think he quietly had a good game against the Wiz. Melo and Shunp both found him close to the hoop. He had some good passes out of the double team as well. Shorty has made me eat some crow. I really didn't think he had any passing skills.But his decision making needs to improve, I think he needs to control his intensity.
As you noted Chemistry takes time, hopefully TD is benched as much as possible because he is disrupting it. Fields has been something of a disappointment. I hope he can do well on the second unit.
1) PF/C that can play defense, rebound, and can finish a lot better than Jeffries. Amare's defense looks weak and Chandler can't keep being the only shot blocker/rebounder/defender
2) a post player, Amare isn't a post player, Melo and Tyson Chandler are our best options, but we need another
3) shooters to spread the floor that have another skill set, such as good defense, ability to penetrate and finish
4) We need 2 players that can penetrate the basket at all times with speed/quickness, Baron Davis and Iman Shumpert are the only ones capable of being that threat
same for our bench, 2nd unit
5) another defender that Iman can team up with so guards can't penetrate and break down our defense with ease. TD just doesn't seem to get it, Fields isn't a SG.
i think the above things is what we need to focus on, we can't rely on Melo/Amare to have a great 1v1 game, playing with no system.
Offensively, we need a post player, and another penetrator
Defensively we need 2 players/guards that can stay in front of their guys and another athletic PF/C that is 6'11 to play with Chandler and allow us to rest Chandler or when he is in foul trouble.
Bibby is a smaller, way poorer version of Kidd, they both can't penetrate at their age anymore. He probably is still our best passer that is healthy though. If he gets good looks at the 3 he can be an efficient 3point threat, but we are missing that post presence, ability to penetrate, and ball movement to make us play as a unit.
KG's defense is solid, both Tyson and KG can go out for the PnR and both get good position for rebounds/shot blocking
Ray Allen is still one one of the best shooters in the league and we don't have 1 legit consistent shooter
I am not sure how Odom would be at his age, but he would be able to play some point/forward as well.
Melo is our best post option, I am not a big fan of his 1v1 iso plays which can look great but shoot us out of it at times when it doesnt go in.
Amare needs to develop some post moves, improve his defense, and start hitting those consistent jumpers.
Most importantly he has to stop turning the ball over and stop dribbling because he is not a point forward.
I think Amare is going to be shopped around during the deadline or in the summer, just to see what his value is in the market with that uninsured contract.
Knixkik wrote:We have 4 players that are proving to be real players to build with: Melo, Stoudemire, Chandler, and Shumpert. Everyone else is non-existent on the floor and severely preventing us from being a great team.
Harrellson is hopefully developing into a valuable role player on the second team he is not perfect yet, but he has heart, and looks like he will improve during the season.
Knixkik wrote: Trade Fields and Douglas for veterans?
Amare and Fields are having trouble hitting shots from the outside consistently. It looks like gaining new muscle in the off season might be a contributor. Surely you don't want to make premature decisions on either of them. Lets wait a reasonable amount of time and see if their strokes come back.
Knixkik wrote:"Harrellson and Jeffries are ok to round out the roster but are not the answer off the bench. Neither is Bill Walker at the SG and SF off the bench." We need veteran players that can be relied on. What's the plan?
Whether we can improve our bench depends on what we can afford. Our remaining budget on this team is very modest. When you get a rookie like Harrellson who is going to conserve our available dollars and continue to improve during the season, that's a good thing. Bill Walker looks awkward, but he is good outside shooter who knows our system, and shoots for a good percentage.
rvwink wrote:Knixkik wrote:We have 4 players that are proving to be real players to build with: Melo, Stoudemire, Chandler, and Shumpert. Everyone else is non-existent on the floor and severely preventing us from being a great team.Harrellson is hopefully developing into a valuable role player on the second team he is not perfect yet, but he has heart, and looks like he will improve during the season.
Knixkik wrote: Trade Fields and Douglas for veterans?Amare and Fields are having trouble hitting shots from the outside consistently. It looks like gaining new muscle in the off season might be a contributor. Surely you don't want to make premature decisions on either of them. Lets wait a reasonable amount of time and see if their strokes come back.
Knixkik wrote:"Harrellson and Jeffries are ok to round out the roster but are not the answer off the bench. Neither is Bill Walker at the SG and SF off the bench." We need veteran players that can be relied on. What's the plan?Whether we can improve our bench depends on what we can afford. Our remaining budget on this team is very modest. When you get a rookie like Harrellson who is going to conserve our available dollars and continue to improve during the season, that's a good thing. Bill Walker looks awkward, but he is good outside shooter who knows our system, and shoots for a good percentage.
I like Douglas and Fields, and they could be excellent in bench roles. I just hate seeing them get completely outplayed by Wall, Young, Augustine, Henderson, etc. A couple of those players have no business embarrassing them the way they do. And Fields and Douglas don't just get killed trying to defend them, they can't do anything against them offensively either. Shumpert on the other hand makes opposing guards very uncomfortable when defending them, and creates opportunities on offense. Maybe starting Shumpert and Fields together is a good move, but i would prefer Shumpert at the SG and maybe trying Bibby at the PG. They seem to compliment each other well in the backcourt with Bibby's shooting ability.
ChuckBuck wrote:EnySpree wrote:I think things are beginning to fix themselves. Shump is the pleasant surprise. Baron is going to be good there is no question. When td and Landry go to the bench. Things will open up. Getting Kenyon Martin would be a God send and would solidify the rotation.Agree, hated K-Mart as a Net, but he'd be a perfect fit for the 2nd unit here. Plays D and can hit some shots.
You can never have enough bangers inside. Kmart will help off the bench playing alongside Amare. Someone's gotta defend the paint when Chandler is on the bench. I don't expect Chandler to avg over 30mins for the season so we get get a nice 3-4 man rotation going if you play Jorts at C some
loweyecue wrote:Douglas should not be in the rotation when Baron comes back. He still sucks as a PG and I would rather see Bibby as backup PG. Walker can shoot just as well if not better and is better defender against bigger players. Walker -Landry at 2-3 for the second unit will be the way to go. Hope Lin is working hard and earns minutes at some point as well. TD needs to earn his minutes and his play do far this year does. OT justify any PT for him at all.
I don't think he is starting material, not a facilitating PG, and he needs to continue to work from his game.
He needs to take a page out of Anthony Carter on defense, its minor things that he can work on.
TD isn't using his body, his feet, and his brain the right way.
He has to limit his opponents moves, using his body, and spacing himself correctly.
By now, he should expect and be prepared they will look to do on him.
It's in all scout reports, to blow right by TD already, he should know that by now.
He is leaving his feel too easily for a jump to try to put a hand, playing defense like he is a big man.
He takes too many bad shots and doesn't know when a good shot from a bad one.
He has to get in rhythem, get a good look, and square up for his shots.
Preferring it from inside out, but we don't have much post players.
He has been penetrating, PnR, and passing are slightly better the past 2 games but he still has a lot of work to do.
I think starting him at PG was a big mistake and his confidence is pretty low right now.
I hope he can find back his role that suited him last year after the trade, where he looked very comfortable and great at times.
He has to continue to work on his weaknesses, in penetrating, mid range game, and pick and roll plays.
I think he can't play with Bibby together as well, as neither can penetrate to the paint or stay in front of their guys on defense.
Fields just doesn't fit with the no penetration/ball ball movement,and no post up players *aside from Melo at times and when Chandler can rarely get great position*
Melo and Amare taking turns going 1v1 majority of the plays.
Its a totally different game now, with too many iso plays.
However, I hope he improves when Baron Davis comes back, and improves his trade value.
I don't think either one is worth much right now but last year, when they were doing well, their would have been interest.
I think Sessions and Anthony Parker would better suited for the Knicks than TD and Fields.
KG would also fit in with Tyson Chandler and Melo better.