Knicks · Game Thread: New York Knicks (4-4) vs. Charlotte Bobcats (2-6) - Monday, January 9, 2012 at 7:30 PM EST (page 18)

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:i want toney to do well, but the team plays SO MUCH BETTER the second he leaves the floor. it's really ridiculous right now.

i think MDA should use toney as a SG next to Bibby right now. toney can't run the point and it's killing his confidence.

Very solid point there

yep exactly

PG-Davis/Bibby/Shump/Lin
SG-Shump/TD/Fields/Walker
SF-Melo/Fields/Jeffries/Walker/Novak
PF-Amare/Kenyon/Jeffries/Novak
C-Tyson/Jorts/Jordan

When Baron comes back I bet he starts off the bench, perhaps he and TD play at same time. And if he is back to 100% I wonder if Shump will come off the bench to provide that unit with firepower.

i think you gotta start your best five. my prediction for the lineup come March 15 or so?

starters:

Baron
Shump
Melo
Amar'e
Tyson

bench:

Bibby
Toney
Fields
KENYON MARTIN
Jorts

can't argue too much with starting the best five, but the Knicks do need bench scoring. And if TD, Fields in funk somethings gotta give.

I see JJ getting minutes off bench with Amare. Those 2 just play well together. Chandler and JJ will split minutes.

yeah, our bench needs a scorer, but i don't want to take shump out of the starting lineup.

VDesai wrote:I hope Jorts keeps getting minutes when Jeffries gets back. Jorts is a lot better than jeffries.

I see Jort, Jefferies, Amare getting minutes together with Shump and Bibby/TD/Fields.

Chandler's Defense on Guards on switches is very strong also.

Charlotte is actually a bad matchup for NY for some reason. I think Diaw throws everything out of wack because he is so skilled.

FoeDiddy wrote:Watching this game on Replay. Man Shumpert shut Augustine down. No other way to say it. Augustine looked intimidated by him out there.

Chandler's Defense on Guards on switches is very strong also.

Charlotte is actually a bad matchup for NY for some reason. I think Diaw throws everything out of wack because he is so skilled.

i think it's because they have big men who can shoot from outside. that means when we switch on the high pick and roll, the ball goes back to the PF or C for a wide open 18-20 ft jumper (or if it's not wide open, a much shorter guy is switched onto the big man). Diaw and DJ White were nailing these shots. Bargnani nailed these shots. any team with a big man who can shoot from there can kill this team.

Once Amare and Melo find their regular season legs they are gonna blow out a lot of teams if they play defense like this all year.

crzymdups wrote:Interesting note: the team is 4-1 when Shumpert plays.

oh nice. LIKE IT

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Interesting note: the team is 4-1 when Shumpert plays.

oh nice. LIKE IT

I wonder what their PPG given up are when he plays vs when he doesn't. and rebounding numbers. It's ridiculous how one change can make a difference like this.

FoeDiddy wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Interesting note: the team is 4-1 when Shumpert plays.

oh nice. LIKE IT

I wonder what their PPG given up are when he plays vs when he doesn't. and rebounding numbers. It's ridiculous how one change can make a difference like this.

just rough math but:

Defense
PPG allowed with Iman playing (5 games) = 97ppg
PPG allowed without Iman (4 games) = 93.25ppg

Offense
PPG scored with Iman = 101.8ppg
PPG scored w/o Iman = 89.75ppg

so with Iman in the lineup the team is +5 point differential overall. With Iman out they are -4 point differential for the full game.

again, small sample sizes. i'm not looking up the rebounding.

crzymdups wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Interesting note: the team is 4-1 when Shumpert plays.

oh nice. LIKE IT

I wonder what their PPG given up are when he plays vs when he doesn't. and rebounding numbers. It's ridiculous how one change can make a difference like this.

just rough math but:

Defense
PPG allowed with Iman playing (5 games) = 97ppg
PPG allowed without Iman (4 games) = 93.25ppg

Offense
PPG scored with Iman = 101.8ppg
PPG scored w/o Iman = 89.75ppg

so with Iman in the lineup the team is +5 point differential overall. With Iman out they are -4 point differential for the full game.

again, small sample sizes. i'm not looking up the rebounding.

so more effect on offense then Defense. It's funny my eyes tell me our defense is way better with him on court but number say something else. Weird.

FoeDiddy wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Interesting note: the team is 4-1 when Shumpert plays.

oh nice. LIKE IT

I wonder what their PPG given up are when he plays vs when he doesn't. and rebounding numbers. It's ridiculous how one change can make a difference like this.

just rough math but:

Defense
PPG allowed with Iman playing (5 games) = 97ppg
PPG allowed without Iman (4 games) = 93.25ppg

Offense
PPG scored with Iman = 101.8ppg
PPG scored w/o Iman = 89.75ppg

so with Iman in the lineup the team is +5 point differential overall. With Iman out they are -4 point differential for the full game.

again, small sample sizes. i'm not looking up the rebounding.

so more effect on offense then Defense. It's funny my eyes tell me our defense is way better with him on court but number say something else. Weird.

my eyes tell me the defense is better, too. it's such a small sample size i don't think you can trust the ppg. also, no telling what was scored when iman was on or off the court. i think it's just safe to say the team is better when he plays.

82games goes a little more in depth - though it looks like they only have stats for his first three games. http://www.82games.com/1112/11NYK5.HTM

The word of the night is hustle. There was hustle on defense, hustle on the glass, and hustle on offense. Tonight's effort is the type of effort I want to see all season. The Knicks still switch too frequently, but they were at least forcing the Bobcats to take contested shots throughout the game. That's what defense in basketball is all about.

Good things happen offensively when the Knicks attack the rim with the ball or without the ball. Carmelo and Stoudemire went something like 30% from the field but they both got to the line a lot because they didn't settle for contested pull-up jumpers and attacked the basket instead. In addition, everybody was really looking for the open man early and the offensive flow really was there. There were a lot of alley-oops in the first half and even though there were times where Melo took bad shots and Amare got too focused on the basket, things looked much better than last week. New York also had seventeen free throws in the first half.

Iman Shumpert is really, REALLY athletic. He freaking backpedaled all the way down the court and stripped Augustin. He looks like one of those guys that just plays faster and stronger than everybody else on the floor.

Douglas was very good defensively early in the second quarter against Kemba walker. Offensively he isn't being used correctly and isn't shooting well (those are two huge problems), but I think he at least needs to get credit for hustling because we haven't seen that a lot.

Making Tyrus Thomas shoot jumpers is a good strategy against the Bobcats.

I swear that Landry Fields is Tyson Chandler in the form of a shooting guard. Both guys are guys who are good rebounders, both know how to cut to the basket on offense, and can assert themselves in the game without having a lot of plays run for them. It's a nice balance to have when the other three guys on the court are guys who tend to dominate the ball. I'd like to see Landry develop his jumpshot, but that will come with time.

I hate Diaw.

crzymdups wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Interesting note: the team is 4-1 when Shumpert plays.

oh nice. LIKE IT

I wonder what their PPG given up are when he plays vs when he doesn't. and rebounding numbers. It's ridiculous how one change can make a difference like this.

just rough math but:

Defense
PPG allowed with Iman playing (5 games) = 97ppg
PPG allowed without Iman (4 games) = 93.25ppg

Offense
PPG scored with Iman = 101.8ppg
PPG scored w/o Iman = 89.75ppg

so with Iman in the lineup the team is +5 point differential overall. With Iman out they are -4 point differential for the full game.

again, small sample sizes. i'm not looking up the rebounding.

y2zipper wrote:I just got home and got a chance to watch the game again and wanted to throw up some casual observations about the team just based on tonight...

The word of the night is hustle. There was hustle on defense, hustle on the glass, and hustle on offense. Tonight's effort is the type of effort I want to see all season. The Knicks still switch too frequently, but they were at least forcing the Bobcats to take contested shots throughout the game. That's what defense in basketball is all about.

Good things happen offensively when the Knicks attack the rim with the ball or without the ball. Carmelo and Stoudemire went something like 30% from the field but they both got to the line a lot because they didn't settle for contested pull-up jumpers and attacked the basket instead. In addition, everybody was really looking for the open man early and the offensive flow really was there. There were a lot of alley-oops in the first half and even though there were times where Melo took bad shots and Amare got too focused on the basket, things looked much better than last week. New York also had seventeen free throws in the first half.

Iman Shumpert is really, REALLY athletic. He freaking backpedaled all the way down the court and stripped Augustin. He looks like one of those guys that just plays faster and stronger than everybody else on the floor.

Douglas was very good defensively early in the second quarter against Kemba walker. Offensively he isn't being used correctly and isn't shooting well (those are two huge problems), but I think he at least needs to get credit for hustling because we haven't seen that a lot.

Making Tyrus Thomas shoot jumpers is a good strategy against the Bobcats.

I swear that Landry Fields is Tyson Chandler in the form of a shooting guard. Both guys are guys who are good rebounders, both know how to cut to the basket on offense, and can assert themselves in the game without having a lot of plays run for them. It's a nice balance to have when the other three guys on the court are guys who tend to dominate the ball. I'd like to see Landry develop his jumpshot, but that will come with time.

I hate Diaw.

Outstanding postage y2z

FoeDiddy wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Interesting note: the team is 4-1 when Shumpert plays.

oh nice. LIKE IT

I wonder what their PPG given up are when he plays vs when he doesn't. and rebounding numbers. It's ridiculous how one change can make a difference like this.

just rough math but:

Defense
PPG allowed with Iman playing (5 games) = 97ppg
PPG allowed without Iman (4 games) = 93.25ppg

Offense
PPG scored with Iman = 101.8ppg
PPG scored w/o Iman = 89.75ppg

so with Iman in the lineup the team is +5 point differential overall. With Iman out they are -4 point differential for the full game.

again, small sample sizes. i'm not looking up the rebounding.

so more effect on offense then Defense. It's funny my eyes tell me our defense is way better with him on court but number say something else. Weird.

Gotta also look at the numbers with a less simplistic lens. The point totals can be skewed by pace. Look at the point differentials. We were -7.25 pts without Iman and we are +4.8 with Iman- that's a 12 pt turnaround. At the faster pace we are able to score more while keeping opponents at bay.

VDesai wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Interesting note: the team is 4-1 when Shumpert plays.

oh nice. LIKE IT

I wonder what their PPG given up are when he plays vs when he doesn't. and rebounding numbers. It's ridiculous how one change can make a difference like this.

just rough math but:

Defense
PPG allowed with Iman playing (5 games) = 97ppg
PPG allowed without Iman (4 games) = 93.25ppg

Offense
PPG scored with Iman = 101.8ppg
PPG scored w/o Iman = 89.75ppg

so with Iman in the lineup the team is +5 point differential overall. With Iman out they are -4 point differential for the full game.

again, small sample sizes. i'm not looking up the rebounding.

so more effect on offense then Defense. It's funny my eyes tell me our defense is way better with him on court but number say something else. Weird.

Gotta also look at the numbers with a less simplistic lens. The point totals can be skewed by pace. Look at the point differentials. We were -7.25 pts without Iman and we are +4.8 with Iman- that's a 12 pt turnaround. At the faster pace we are able to score more while keeping opponents at bay.