The bench only scored three points last night. For a season where it feels you are playing every night, and injuries WILL hapen, that is a bid sign. Toney Douglas had two points in 13 minutes. Josh Harrellson only had one in 19 minutes. Going into tonight, the Knicks' subs were only averaging 19.7 points - worst in the league.
As Amar'e and Carmelo are already showing signs of wear, tear and fatigue, it is IMPERATIVE the Knicks rethink the reserves... or change how they are deployed. Baron Davis is not walking through the door anytime soon and Wilson Chandler is a thousand miles away.
What moves can be made, if any?
I miss Extra E
You're looking at small moves. Maybe we get lucky. The China guys could offer relief at the end of the season.
This was the biggest issue with the Melo trade last season and now the concerns are coming to fruition.
Mike's going to have to start giving nights off, like they do in soccer; alternate Melo and Amar'e and hope Jorts can drop some treys against the weaker teams.
Yeah we are beating bad teams which is a good thing, but nothing as changed. We are beating bad teams because we have 4 really good players. After that we are amongst the worst in the league. Fields has shocked me this season. Yes he is not the same player when he doesn't have a PG creating easy buckets. But the things he did well last season (rebounding, shooting 39% from three, and put-back opportunities) he does none of this season. He was a very unique player who brought different things to the table. Those things should translate no matter who he is playing with, but they are no longer existent in his game.
As far as moves go, Baron Davis comes back and that gives us a 5th quality player. I would really hope we have a good shot to sign Kenyon Martin in March from the room exception. He is the perfect big man off the bench and that gives us a 6th strong player. We will have to continue to monitor Douglas and Fields, but if nothing changes, we probably want to look at trading them to a young team looking to shake things up on their bench like us. Maybe for OJ Mayo or Luke Ridnour and a pick or something like that. Even if we don't get a PG back for Douglas, we still have enough depth at the PG with Davis, Bibby, and Shumpert playing some minutes. At this point in time that will be the best option for us. Once we reach the offseason, there will be plenty of veteran options to add that will provide the depth we don't have right now. But for this season here is the type of rotation we would be looking at which would help.
C Chandler/Harrellson
PF Stoudemire/Martin
SF Anthony/Walker
SG Shumpert/Mayo
PG Davis/Bibby
We're not going to be able to trade Toney Douglas or Landry Fields for much of value until they play better.
This team could have desperately used Shawne Williams.
They need a scoring forward off the bench. Not even someone who can create his own shot, just someone who can hit a few buckets and score 8-10pts. Not sure where that guy comes from at this point in the season.
Baron helps the guard depth and maybe allows Landry to slide over to backup SF, which would help, theoretically.
The "Keepin' It Real" Story
C Chandler, whose minutes need to be monitored/ Jeffries/ Jerome Jordan in an emergency
F Stoudemire, who needs to stop attempting threes/ Harrellson
F Carmelo Anthony, whose body is sending troubling signals/ tbd (Steve Novak is no Shawne Williams and Bill Walker does not get inside enough)
G Fields/ open audition for a 6'7 defender who can be trusted (see below)
G Shumpert (cramp issues)/ the elder Mike Bibby (knee pain)/ tbd
(Toney Douglas, sinking fast; Jeremy Lin, a longshot; Baron Davis, still in a nice suit)
I miss Derrick Brown, Roger Mason Jr and Anthony Carter
misterearl wrote:The bench only scored three points last night. For a season where it feels you are playing every night, and injuries WILL hapen, that is a bid sign. Toney Douglas had two points in 13 minutes. Josh Harrellson only had one in 19 minutes. Going into tonight, the Knicks' subs were only averaging 19.7 points - worst in the league. As Amar'e and Carmelo are already showing signs of wear, tear and fatigue, it is IMPERATIVE the Knicks rethink the reserves... or change how they are deployed. Baron Davis is not walking through the door anytime soon and Wilson Chandler is a thousand miles away.
What moves can be made, if any?
I miss Extra E
What the hell are you talking about (no reserves)? WE HAVE BILLY SKY WALKER!!
orginally I thought Fields would go to the bench, but now I think its Shumpert. I think Fields will play better with Baron Davis because there will be more pure ball movement and Fields still gets other good stats when he's not scoring (6 rebs, 5 assists, last night).
Knicks would start: Baron, Fields, Melo, Amear, Chandler
and bring off the bench: Shumpert, Douglas, Jeffries, Harrelson
Looking at the curent roster I think thats our best 9.
Come crunch time I see Baron and Shumpert finishing together.
What I see from the bench is little to no movement toward the basket. Harrelson only attempted one shot even though he was open more. Walker's shot has been off but he's playing good enough defense. Toney is probably more hurt then they are letting on, Bibby only played a little last night so I have to think he's hurting. Balk didn't play and he can sometimes be a difference maker. D'toni won't use much more of the bench when games are tight.
misterearl wrote:The bench only scored three points last night. For a season where it feels you are playing every night, and injuries WILL hapen, that is a bid sign. Toney Douglas had two points in 13 minutes. Josh Harrellson only had one in 19 minutes. Going into tonight, the Knicks' subs were only averaging 19.7 points - worst in the league. As Amar'e and Carmelo are already showing signs of wear, tear and fatigue, it is IMPERATIVE the Knicks rethink the reserves... or change how they are deployed. Baron Davis is not walking through the door anytime soon and Wilson Chandler is a thousand miles away.
What moves can be made, if any?
I miss Extra E
Cause Bibby was hurt...Douglas has regressed and Walker is useless. Too bad we cant exchange Billy for Shawn and get that corner 3going again. Not sure why Novak hasn't been able to fill that role.
DurzoBlint wrote:misterearl wrote:The bench only scored three points last night. For a season where it feels you are playing every night, and injuries WILL hapen, that is a bid sign. Toney Douglas had two points in 13 minutes. Josh Harrellson only had one in 19 minutes. Going into tonight, the Knicks' subs were only averaging 19.7 points - worst in the league. As Amar'e and Carmelo are already showing signs of wear, tear and fatigue, it is IMPERATIVE the Knicks rethink the reserves... or change how they are deployed. Baron Davis is not walking through the door anytime soon and Wilson Chandler is a thousand miles away.
What moves can be made, if any?
I miss Extra E
Cause Bibby was hurt...Douglas has regressed and Walker is useless. Too bad we cant exchange Billy for Shawn and get that corner 3going again. Not sure why Novak hasn't been able to fill that role.
For someone advertised to have such a great shot, Steve Novak is the most passive player on the Knicks.
Shoot the ball.
I'm not sure were that bad...melo will hoist up a lot of shots regardless as well as amare....Fields isn't the same player cause his role as change dramatically..his rebounds are down because he has better rebounded arnd him..
He can slash the lane as easy because tyson is right there..he has loss some confidence but it hasn't been 10 games yet..it all a process and this thing will take time..
fishmike wrote:orginally I thought Fields would go to the bench, but now I think its Shumpert. I think Fields will play better with Baron Davis because there will be more pure ball movement and Fields still gets other good stats when he's not scoring (6 rebs, 5 assists, last night).Knicks would start: Baron, Fields, Melo, Amear, Chandler
and bring off the bench: Shumpert, Douglas, Jeffries, Harrelson
Looking at the curent roster I think thats our best 9.
Come crunch time I see Baron and Shumpert finishing together.
fishmike - you are still playing the fantasy game. Carmelo and Amar'e are screaming for help. Toney Douglas' time in New York is ticking down faster than Marisa Tomei's biological clock in "My Cousin Vinny."
Baron Davis may not play a game this season. There are no guarantees.
The best thing the Knicks can do is scour the globe for a yoot who can put the ball in the basket.
misterearl wrote:fishmike wrote:orginally I thought Fields would go to the bench, but now I think its Shumpert. I think Fields will play better with Baron Davis because there will be more pure ball movement and Fields still gets other good stats when he's not scoring (6 rebs, 5 assists, last night).Knicks would start: Baron, Fields, Melo, Amear, Chandler
and bring off the bench: Shumpert, Douglas, Jeffries, Harrelson
Looking at the curent roster I think thats our best 9.
Come crunch time I see Baron and Shumpert finishing together.
fishmike - you are still playing the fantasy game. Carmelo and Amar'e are screaming for help. Toney Douglas' time in New York is ticking down faster than Marisa Tomei's biological clock in "My Cousin Vinny."
Baron Davis may not play a game this season. There are no guarantees.
The best thing the Knicks can do is scour the globe for a yoot who can put the ball in the basket.
Baron Davis is due back end of January.
ChuckBuck wrote:misterearl wrote:fishmike wrote:orginally I thought Fields would go to the bench, but now I think its Shumpert. I think Fields will play better with Baron Davis because there will be more pure ball movement and Fields still gets other good stats when he's not scoring (6 rebs, 5 assists, last night).Knicks would start: Baron, Fields, Melo, Amear, Chandler
and bring off the bench: Shumpert, Douglas, Jeffries, Harrelson
Looking at the curent roster I think thats our best 9.
Come crunch time I see Baron and Shumpert finishing together.
fishmike - you are still playing the fantasy game. Carmelo and Amar'e are screaming for help. Toney Douglas' time in New York is ticking down faster than Marisa Tomei's biological clock in "My Cousin Vinny."
Baron Davis may not play a game this season. There are no guarantees.
The best thing the Knicks can do is scour the globe for a yoot who can put the ball in the basket.
Baron Davis is due back end of January.
Only Baron Davis knows when he will be back and so far his back ain't back.
"Anthony picked up his fifth foul with 5:30 left, but D’Antoni elected to leave him in the game, because “I just didn’t feel like anybody else could produce any points,” (D'Antoni) said.
We need someone who can produce points. Waiting for Baron Davis is not a solution.
misterearl wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:misterearl wrote:fishmike wrote:orginally I thought Fields would go to the bench, but now I think its Shumpert. I think Fields will play better with Baron Davis because there will be more pure ball movement and Fields still gets other good stats when he's not scoring (6 rebs, 5 assists, last night).Knicks would start: Baron, Fields, Melo, Amear, Chandler
and bring off the bench: Shumpert, Douglas, Jeffries, Harrelson
Looking at the curent roster I think thats our best 9.
Come crunch time I see Baron and Shumpert finishing together.
fishmike - you are still playing the fantasy game. Carmelo and Amar'e are screaming for help. Toney Douglas' time in New York is ticking down faster than Marisa Tomei's biological clock in "My Cousin Vinny."
Baron Davis may not play a game this season. There are no guarantees.
The best thing the Knicks can do is scour the globe for a yoot who can put the ball in the basket.
Baron Davis is due back end of January.
Only Baron Davis knows when he will be back and so far his back ain't back.
"Anthony picked up his fifth foul with 5:30 left, but D’Antoni elected to leave him in the game, because “I just didn’t feel like anybody else could produce any points,” (D'Antoni) said.
We need someone who can produce points. Waiting for Baron Davis is not a solution.
Baron may not play a game this season? I mean, thats the strongest argument you come up with? Boom Dizzle will add some depth in the guard rotation. They need a super 6th. I think Gilbert Arenas is still available, which I am not sold on, but might make sense. We really need a scoring big off the bench though.
BTW, maybe Gallo will play himself down into the Mid Level exception for next year :)
Insert Novak for Walker and our bench will improve. Also the bench won't look as bad when TD gets his confidence back and Landry is moved to the bench where he will score in transition against the other teams 2nd unit. Kenyon Martin will also fit nicely in that second unit as long as Davis or Shumpert are running the point.
I can also see Davis coming off the bench for the 1st few games until he gets in the flow
I think you move Amare to the bench, and start Jorts. This isn't anything more than trying to balance things out.
I think Douglas is hurt. He is just brittle, and if you can still get a 2nd round pick for him, I say do it.
This is also on the coach, I think- because like in Miami, you end up with the role players waiting for the stars to do everything, so they just hang back, and then the stars end up forcing the action.
You move Amare to the bench, you send a message to everyone - they need to step up their games. Its not a slight on Amare, or shouldn't be construed that way.
franco12 wrote:I think you move Amare to the bench, and start Jorts. This isn't anything more than trying to balance things out.I think Douglas is hurt. He is just brittle, and if you can still get a 2nd round pick for him, I say do it.
This is also on the coach, I think- because like in Miami, you end up with the role players waiting for the stars to do everything, so they just hang back, and then the stars end up forcing the action.
You move Amare to the bench, you send a message to everyone - they need to step up their games. Its not a slight on Amare, or shouldn't be construed that way.
Really?? There's no way you put Amare Stoudemire on the bench for Josh Harrellson!
misterearl wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:misterearl wrote:fishmike wrote:orginally I thought Fields would go to the bench, but now I think its Shumpert. I think Fields will play better with Baron Davis because there will be more pure ball movement and Fields still gets other good stats when he's not scoring (6 rebs, 5 assists, last night).Knicks would start: Baron, Fields, Melo, Amear, Chandler
and bring off the bench: Shumpert, Douglas, Jeffries, Harrelson
Looking at the curent roster I think thats our best 9.
Come crunch time I see Baron and Shumpert finishing together.
fishmike - you are still playing the fantasy game. Carmelo and Amar'e are screaming for help. Toney Douglas' time in New York is ticking down faster than Marisa Tomei's biological clock in "My Cousin Vinny."
Baron Davis may not play a game this season. There are no guarantees.
The best thing the Knicks can do is scour the globe for a yoot who can put the ball in the basket.
Baron Davis is due back end of January.
Only Baron Davis knows when he will be back and so far his back ain't back.
"Anthony picked up his fifth foul with 5:30 left, but D’Antoni elected to leave him in the game, because “I just didn’t feel like anybody else could produce any points,” (D'Antoni) said.
We need someone who can produce points. Waiting for Baron Davis is not a solution.
its a solution and the best solution. If you think you can 'find' someone half as good as Baron Davis your nuts.
The other guys simply need to play better. Douglas, Fields and Jorts need to hit some shots.
ChuckBuck wrote:franco12 wrote:I think you move Amare to the bench, and start Jorts. This isn't anything more than trying to balance things out.I think Douglas is hurt. He is just brittle, and if you can still get a 2nd round pick for him, I say do it.
This is also on the coach, I think- because like in Miami, you end up with the role players waiting for the stars to do everything, so they just hang back, and then the stars end up forcing the action.
You move Amare to the bench, you send a message to everyone - they need to step up their games. Its not a slight on Amare, or shouldn't be construed that way.
Really?? There's no way you put Amare Stoudemire on the bench for Josh Harrellson!
LOL I can only shake my head at this.
As well as Shumpert is playing I think that once Baron Davis has a few games under his belt Shump should return to the bench. Landry still looks lost but has shown some signs with an actual PG on the floor this season so I think he'll remain a starter:
C Chandler/Harrellson
PF Stoudemire/Jeffries
SF Anthony/Walker
SG Fields/TD/Bibby
PG Davis/Shump/Bibby
And if it's tru taht Kenyon Martin is going to sign with us in March that will add even more depth. Definitely an issue but I think we have some options going forward.
