Knicks · Fact: This team is garbage! (page 6)

Bonn1997 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

MS wrote:That's the big issue. What is the plan here?

Our big weakness last year was never scoring. It was defense. What's are weakness now? Scoring and defense. Just make sure you're improving on something before you make a deal.

We could have had Chandler this offseason if we didn't trade for Melo. Which would have made us a better team than we are now with guys that could keep improving. We would also have our amnesity to us use.

Defense is actually a strength now.

And yes, the offense is still being figured out. Baron helps. It also helps if Melo and Amar'e are on the court.

Man, you guys realize 24 hours ago how different ALL OF YOU sounded?

All of who? MS, Raven, many others, and I have consistently disagreed with the path the team is on.

You can add me to that group.

This team is not garbage we're just not playing well right now. Let's get healthy and watch some games and talk a bit later. Threads like this make me sick. Is this a Knicks fan forum or hater forum, can't much tell the difference at times!

subzero0 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

MS wrote:That's the big issue. What is the plan here?

Our big weakness last year was never scoring. It was defense. What's are weakness now? Scoring and defense. Just make sure you're improving on something before you make a deal.

We could have had Chandler this offseason if we didn't trade for Melo. Which would have made us a better team than we are now with guys that could keep improving. We would also have our amnesity to us use.

Defense is actually a strength now.

And yes, the offense is still being figured out. Baron helps. It also helps if Melo and Amar'e are on the court.

Man, you guys realize 24 hours ago how different ALL OF YOU sounded?

All of who? MS, Raven, many others, and I have consistently disagreed with the path the team is on.

You can add me to that group.

I should star the "Doom and Gloom" club!

CashMoney wrote:This team is not garbage we're just not playing well right now. Let's get healthy and watch some games and talk a bit later. Threads like this make me sick. Is this a Knicks fan forum or hater forum, can't much tell the difference at times!

It depends on what "garbage" means. I don't think it's a .400 team. But after being terrible for 3 years just to clear cap space, we should get something far better than .500. Even mediocre GMs can put together .500 teams without having to sacrifice several years to get cap space and without having to add several long-term max or near max contract players that limit cap flexibility.

Bonn1997 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:This team is not garbage we're just not playing well right now. Let's get healthy and watch some games and talk a bit later. Threads like this make me sick. Is this a Knicks fan forum or hater forum, can't much tell the difference at times!

It depends on what "garbage" means. I don't think it's a .400 team. But after being terrible for 3 years just to clear cap space, we should get something far better than .500. Even mediocre GMs can put together .500 teams without having to sacrifice several years to get cap space and without having to add several long-term max or near max contract players that limit cap flexibility.

Yeah, garbage is a bad word imho.
The team sometimes plays like garbage, but has enough talent not to, which is infuriating.

My opinion for which I got flamed is: I don't think this is a championship caliber team, unless insane string of luck.
I don't trust Melo as a main star and would have prefered to see Amare play with an elite point guard before anything else.

So if we can't win a championship, what's the point of selling youth + cap space in exchange for 2nd tier stars?

That's all.

raven wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:This team is not garbage we're just not playing well right now. Let's get healthy and watch some games and talk a bit later. Threads like this make me sick. Is this a Knicks fan forum or hater forum, can't much tell the difference at times!

It depends on what "garbage" means. I don't think it's a .400 team. But after being terrible for 3 years just to clear cap space, we should get something far better than .500. Even mediocre GMs can put together .500 teams without having to sacrifice several years to get cap space and without having to add several long-term max or near max contract players that limit cap flexibility.

Yeah, garbage is a bad word imho.
The team sometimes plays like garbage, but has enough talent not to, which is infuriating.

My opinion for which I got flamed is: I don't think this is a championship caliber team, unless insane string of luck.
I don't trust Melo as a main star and would have prefered to see Amare play with an elite point guard before anything else.

So if we can't win a championship, what's the point of selling youth + cap space in exchange for 2nd tier stars?

That's all.

I agree except that I don't see Amare as a main star either.

So what would have been the alternatives? Me, I would have preferred for us to sign Carmelo in free agency, hold on to Felton and Gallo and wish Wil all the best. But maybe there was a real risk Carmelo goes to the Nets, then I guess we're back in the same boat: a gassed Amare plus complimentary pieces and huge questions in 2012. We'll never know and we have yet to harness flux capacitor technology.

So if Amare and Carmelo are 2-tier stars and we don't pay big money for them, our 2011 squad looks like....what? And who then signs up for a Knicks team that was just barely north of "laughingstock" status. Help me out here.

Baron won't only help with ball movement and setting up Amare, he will also add to our depth. I strongly suggest we start Baron and Fields together to at least get decent spacing for Melo and Amare to operate, and then bring Shumpert/Douglas/Bibby off the bench, giving Shumpert and Douglas the green light to shoot depending on which is on.

Baron
Fields
Melo
Amare
Chandler

Douglas/Bibby
Shumpert
Walker
Harrelson
Jeffries

raven wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:This team is not garbage we're just not playing well right now. Let's get healthy and watch some games and talk a bit later. Threads like this make me sick. Is this a Knicks fan forum or hater forum, can't much tell the difference at times!

It depends on what "garbage" means. I don't think it's a .400 team. But after being terrible for 3 years just to clear cap space, we should get something far better than .500. Even mediocre GMs can put together .500 teams without having to sacrifice several years to get cap space and without having to add several long-term max or near max contract players that limit cap flexibility.

Yeah, garbage is a bad word imho.
The team sometimes plays like garbage, but has enough talent not to, which is infuriating.

My opinion for which I got flamed is: I don't think this is a championship caliber team, unless insane string of luck.
I don't trust Melo as a main star and would have prefered to see Amare play with an elite point guard before anything else.

So if we can't win a championship, what's the point of selling youth + cap space in exchange for 2nd tier stars?

That's all.

Melo is about on the same tier as Dirk, as in they can win as the focal point with the right supporting cast. He isn't on the same level as LeBron, Wade and Howard where you can surround them with trash and they can still find a way to be competitive. Those guys impact both sides of the court at a high level.

Melo and STAT are not 2nd tier stars! The Elite players in this league is a very small group. It's not like there are a whole bunch of guys that are above STAT and Melo. To this day we haven't seen what this team would look like with a proven PG. So really no one is operating on all cylinders. It takes away a good portion of their effectiveness when you have poor to just OK PG play. We have a kid that is just learning how to run a pro offense and then there's a sharp drop off from there. I guarantee that no one would be saying we have 2nd tier stars if we had a good PG allowing them to maximize their games. We have a team of finishers with no one to set them up. We're hoping Shump can learn on the fly and that Davis can regain his game.

I wanted to make a thread, but it's not worth it.

Only question I have for this team is why don't we run the triangle??? I would have fired MD by now an got any coach who runs the system.

In my thread I want to use mr Wik and say melo would go here and this is Stat, but everybody knows the deal with the triangle here........I think.

Melo is our best post player and Amare likes to float around 10 feet away from the basket, how are we not running this offense??? Feilds and Shumps are cutters. Everybody else is a spot up shooter. How are still trying to run 7seconds or less without a point guard???

And I really don't see how people talk about the trade anymore. Denver has two players from the trade playing and replaced a couple players from last years ending team and Karl is still doing a great job. I don't see how you take that as "if they were here we would winning", when it clearly is karl can plug in any lesser tanlets into his system right now and get them to play hard.

I think it's fool gold and there is no way that team could actually win anything in Denver, but it's a great system to point at and moan and cry about. To compare to this, team were we have triangle pegs trying to be jammed into a round hole, it's not fare.

This is a very good team still gelling and season will prove that as this guys play together. Even going with MD this team will have way more good than bad and is built to beat playoff teams.

Bonn1997 wrote:

raven wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:This team is not garbage we're just not playing well right now. Let's get healthy and watch some games and talk a bit later. Threads like this make me sick. Is this a Knicks fan forum or hater forum, can't much tell the difference at times!

It depends on what "garbage" means. I don't think it's a .400 team. But after being terrible for 3 years just to clear cap space, we should get something far better than .500. Even mediocre GMs can put together .500 teams without having to sacrifice several years to get cap space and without having to add several long-term max or near max contract players that limit cap flexibility.

Yeah, garbage is a bad word imho.
The team sometimes plays like garbage, but has enough talent not to, which is infuriating.

My opinion for which I got flamed is: I don't think this is a championship caliber team, unless insane string of luck.
I don't trust Melo as a main star and would have prefered to see Amare play with an elite point guard before anything else.

So if we can't win a championship, what's the point of selling youth + cap space in exchange for 2nd tier stars?

That's all.

I agree except that I don't see Amare as a main star either.

Neither do I, but I still think a team built around Chris Paul + Amare + shooters + Depth could be very hard to deal with.

airchibundo507 wrote:

raven wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CashMoney wrote:This team is not garbage we're just not playing well right now. Let's get healthy and watch some games and talk a bit later. Threads like this make me sick. Is this a Knicks fan forum or hater forum, can't much tell the difference at times!

It depends on what "garbage" means. I don't think it's a .400 team. But after being terrible for 3 years just to clear cap space, we should get something far better than .500. Even mediocre GMs can put together .500 teams without having to sacrifice several years to get cap space and without having to add several long-term max or near max contract players that limit cap flexibility.

Yeah, garbage is a bad word imho.
The team sometimes plays like garbage, but has enough talent not to, which is infuriating.

My opinion for which I got flamed is: I don't think this is a championship caliber team, unless insane string of luck.
I don't trust Melo as a main star and would have prefered to see Amare play with an elite point guard before anything else.

So if we can't win a championship, what's the point of selling youth + cap space in exchange for 2nd tier stars?

That's all.

Melo is about on the same tier as Dirk, as in they can win as the focal point with the right supporting cast. He isn't on the same level as LeBron, Wade and Howard where you can surround them with trash and they can still find a way to be competitive. Those guys impact both sides of the court at a high level.

OK, I may get flamed again for this, but I would take Dirk over Melo with no regret.
Dirk has size, is a great teammate and an admired pro with great attitude. Never complain, always worked his butt off while Melo has been known for mailing games all the time.

Other than that, I definitely agree with on the fact that only a few guys are elite, the others are all stars, and history shows taht you need elite players to win.

Gymkata wrote:So what would have been the alternatives? Me, I would have preferred for us to sign Carmelo in free agency, hold on to Felton and Gallo and wish Wil all the best. But maybe there was a real risk Carmelo goes to the Nets, then I guess we're back in the same boat: a gassed Amare plus complimentary pieces and huge questions in 2012. We'll never know and we have yet to harness flux capacitor technology.

So if Amare and Carmelo are 2-tier stars and we don't pay big money for them, our 2011 squad looks like....what? And who then signs up for a Knicks team that was just barely north of "laughingstock" status. Help me out here.

I've written in a lot of detail on this but the team for the past decade has needed to do legitimate rebuilding. Once it was clear Lebron and Wade weren't coming, we should have used our financial advantage to buy lots of draft picks and get the best, young FAs available on small contracts. Every year we're told that the team would be the laughingstock of the NBA if we did a genuine rebuilding, so we must starphuck instead and still suck.

Bonn1997 wrote:

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:That's the word. I feel I am poignant at all times.

It's never as good nor as bad as it seems.

I would prefer not to rest our hopes on Baron Davis, but it can turn out well. This morning, I am feeling positive.

Are you sure the past decade was not as bad as it seemed?

Hahaha, the past decade was a nightmare.

But now, with this team, it is far from the Eddy Curry days.

It's definitely better than those days but by how much remains to be seen.

This is true.

I wanted to say that we are back on the map, but this is dangerously close to the sentiment many held after the Marbury trade. Time will tell if this will turn out better.

It's really not all that different from the Marbury effect. Although we didn't give up nearly as much to get him.

Everyone was up in arms two days ago when you state the truth and two days later everyone wants to trade Amare. Which we are going to have a lot of trouble doing now because we put him in a system where he doesn't fit and likely will continue to struggle hurting his value. God forbid he gets injured we are again a lottery team with no draft picks.

It was amusing when people were killing me about not posting after we beat a shorthanded Celtics team who happens to be 4-7 or after our lone win vs a team above .500. But, everyone is going to suffer the same schedule, face the same problems. We have a D League team out there without Melo or Stat and you can and never will win in this league when that happens. Miami somehow found a way to beat Atlanta without Wade and Lebron it's embarrassing we can't find a way to compete without Melo.

Again, it looks like Hollinger, Barkley and everyone else was spot on. The Pacers are a better team (and there frontcourt as a whole maybe better than ours), the sixers are better, Shumpert isn't an elite rookie yet, etc. Merely stating the obvious shouldn't garner such a crazy response.

As a fan that has watched front office executives make dumb move after dumb move and have to listen to GM's tell me I don't know what I'm talking about and don't see what they see and justify some of the worst signings, trades in the past 20 years of the sport, you can call out your team for what you see. A group of guys that talks tough, but doesn't have a leader. A team that's going to struggle to even make the playoffs and without an effective Baron Davis a team that's going to get handled in round one again.

But, the owner will be nice enough to raise tickets prices 54% for two home playoff blowouts and then blackout the team for the very fans that supported them during there 30 win averages.

Uptown wrote:

misterearl wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

misterearl wrote:The Donnie Walsh Master Plan

(Correction and Upgrade)

Felton
Fields
Gallinari
Stoudemire
Tyson Chandler (Stat gets the paint back with Felton and Fields smiling at each other)

Bibby
Shumpert
Wilson Chandler
Anthony Randolph
Timofey Mozgov (quality depth, size, scoring and defense to hold leads, did someone say Minute Men?)

Jeremy Lin
Toney Douglas, resting his shoulder
Shawne Williams, who is pissed that he must work hard for minutes
Jared Jeffries for comic relief
Josh Harrellson (Gar-BAGE time is time for auditions)

Just so everyone is on the same page here - you're pining for a team that was 28-26.

And people are complaining about the Knicks beating easy teams. When the Felton/Gallo team fattened up with 13 wins in a row against easy teams.

That 13 game winning streak hides the fact that the team was under .500 in November and January. Take away that streak, when Amar'e was playing out of his mind (something we haven't seen since, including pre-Melo) and the team was 15-26.

Pine on you crazy diamond.

The Crazy Diamond Pines On At The Pine Barrons (A Donnie Walsh Master Plan Update)

Forget the 13 game wining streak crzymdups, lets look at the BALANCE SHEET from last night:

(the operative word is BALANCE)

OUR Starters

Felton (13 points and 7 assists in a loss to the Spurs)
Fields (free to move without the ball again)
Gallinari (14 points, 5 rebounds in the Miami win)
Stoudemire (the captain gets his groove back)
Tyson Chandler (playing in NYC because he wanted to play with Stoudemire, Felton promised to get him the pill)

OUR Reserves

Baron Davis (hung around in New York after the labor talks, his SAG card works in a lot of places here)
Shumpert (brought along slower)
Shawne Williams (we already KNOW Extra E can shoot it)
Anthony Randolph (averaging 7 points and 3 rebounds and shooting 54 per cent from the floor, not bad)
Timofey Mozgov (started, outplayed the Miami big men last night with 12 points, 7 rebounds, three blocks and a juicy +16 in the win)

OUR Pine Brothers

Jeremy Lin
Corey Brewer (averaging 7 points and 2 rebounds for Denver)
Wilson Chandler (MIA, he slides to guard with OUR reserves and everything is up tight - out of sight)
Jared Jeffries
Josh Harrellson

Quality depth. Yoots. Enthusiasm. Size. Trust. Scoring and defense. Minimally, 7-8 guys in double figures every night, what's not to like?

Did I mention we still have draft picks?

Since we are stuck in the past and cant move forward and live in the here and now, forget last years possible line up, I want to talk about the possibilities of the 1988 Knicks squad. I still cant get over how we let Bernard King walk after he worked extremely hard to rehabilitate his knee. Chekc this line up:

Our Starters

Patrick Ewing (the paint defender and up and coming offensive allstar)
Sidney Green (rebounder supreme and grunt worker)
Bernard King (One of the best scoring machines the game has ever seen with a surgically repaired knee)
Mark Jackson (Rookie of the year gem found mid-late first round)
Gerald Wilkins (killer finisher on the break and good defender on the perimeter)

Pine Brothers

Kenny "Sky" Walker
Bill Cartwright (could play twin towers at times)
Johnny Newman (suprise FA pick up and 3 point bomber)
Trent Tucker (another 3 point bomber(

That team had tremendous potential. 20+ yrs later, I still cant get over that team. Carmelo who????

+1 Funny sheehit.

You forgot:
Chris McNealy (Defensive sparkplug third unit off the pine)

So virtually every team aside from the Celtics is off to a good start in the East.

We may not have a ton of offensive weapons, but watching Melo fire away every night and look off guys doesn't seem to be working. It doesn't foster team ball and the Knicks are strictly a one on one team with no ball movement.

This team is embarrassing. I can't believe the season is already coming down to a guy that could get injured at anytime. Btw the Cavs have a better record than us and they are being led by a rookie.

It would be nice if there was one leader on this entire team.

I've heard tennis soccer whorseshoe fans sleep better at night and don't post to websites.
I think, however, it's a fabricated lie based on some right-wing conspiracy theory, though.

And we never should have traded Lonnie Shelton. He was really really black.

Ok so Steve Nash is not the answer at point guard? This.guy is twice the player Melo is. He makes every single player around him better averages 10 assists with virtually a team of role players and manages to shoot 53% from the field.

Denver happend to win again tonight and are now 10-5. Without their superstar who has the Knicks at 6-8. We have one quality win on the season and have now lost to the suns, cats and raptors at home.

Again, this team is garbage. No debate necessary. No heart, leadership or fight. The Cavs have a better record than this team. Time to stop making excuses.

FACT: we are not even good enough to be called garbage!!