Knicks · We know it's the PG play (page 1)
Here is a list of PGs who should be available as FAs in the summer. Luckily there is a strong list. Rank these PGs in order of how effectively they would fit this team as currently constructed. My order:
1. Steve Nash
2. Ray Felton
3. Baron Davis
4. Andre Miller
5. DJ Augustine
6. Ramon Sessions
7. Jason Kidd
2. DJ Augustine
3. Raymond Felton
4. Steve Nash
5. Andre Miller
6. Jason Kidd
7. Ramon Sessions
You give them Toney Douglas and Fields for Luke and Nikola Pekovic.
because he has already proven that he can be successful in NY.
I'll say it again....you need to put guys where they can be successful.
TheGame wrote:The only guys on that list that we really could get are Davis, Nash, session, and miller if he were willing to take a pay cut. Felton and Augustin due to their age, will probably command too much. Sessions and miller cannot hit the three, which will be a problem in this offense. So you are really looking at resigning Davis or talking Nash into taking a MLE deal.
I don't know about you guys but I think we need so much quality + quantity, we need players to take a HUGE pay cut. Lets see how Baron Davis does as PG and who our coach will be next year before we decide? I just know I am not interested in Kidd, unless he is the 3rd string PG. I haven't watched Cleveland play much but Sessions seems to put up solid numbers for his minutes in Cleveland. He is probably the fastest, with quickness, and best penetration out of the group. I love how Felton produced for us last year but I think his body is going to break down within 3 years. At least in for a big drop off physically unless he starts training and eating right in the seasons and off seasons. We probably looking at bi annual exemption to use on the PG as we need to fill up quality 6th man type G/F, PF/C, and then a couple of solid bench players G/F, F, PG, and depending on the development of Jorts/Jordan another back C. I suggested breaking up Amare to Boston, because they look like they need to reconstruct their roster as well. Sometimes a change scenery benefits both teams and players. Both players are UFA, allows us to compete this year as well. Whether we decide to go all in with one player, or restore our bench with depth with talent, and possibly resign these guys for less money could restore our depth. However, if Amare continues to play this way, I don't think we would be able to get good value out of him. We still might get an expiring contract, a younger player without a HIGH ceiling, and/or 1 draft pick at best. Who owns our draft pick this year, Houston?
If Dantoni is our coach, I would look to use the BI Annual exemption on the PG, and that not the MLE. Probably Baron Davis is our best chance, with his age, health, and since he is making money on his contract with Cleveland already. Nash has experience running Dantoni's system, he never had much speed/quickness, it was all good timing and great passing.
I think Tyson Chandler, Amare, and Melo are players that no longer have speed, so we need players that have speed + quickness.
Lowry was a late bloomer that took a 4-5 years before he developed, now flirting with triple double threat. Lowry loss his job in Memphis to Conley in Memphis a couple years back.
My point is, I think we need to find out own Lowry. Dragic was once a student under Nash and I would target a player like Dragic, Sessions, Gaines, or Farmar. Basically a player that still has untapped potential, that wouldn't too much, to go with a veteran. If we do not break up ATM, we would have the MLE to use to gain the bird rights, I don't know if we might have to break it up for 2 players. A S&T is also possible, to gain bird rights. Does anyone know if we have Jeremy Lin's 2 year early bird rights, by claiming him on the waivers? So another 1 year deal would give us his full bird rights? There are a lot of players with team options/player options/ and restricted FAs. I don't want to guess, who would be available so I will only look at UFA's for now... I am trying to find the cheapest and productive FAs as possible.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/2012-nba-free-agents
1) Nash
2) Baron Davis
3) Sessions
4) Miller
i don't see these guys even taking the MLE, I don't think either player are realistic options, unless thru S&T
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6) Felton
7) Augustine
colombian0725 wrote:I don't know where everyone on this board thinks we are going to find a point guard? We have no money to offer them. No trade pieces. You guys expect a point guard to come play here for a bag of peanuts.
Last year that's exactly what people said about us finding a center. There's always something that can be worked if the front office actively tries to.
loweyecue wrote:colombian0725 wrote:I don't know where everyone on this board thinks we are going to find a point guard? We have no money to offer them. No trade pieces. You guys expect a point guard to come play here for a bag of peanuts.Last year that's exactly what people said about us finding a center. There's always something that can be worked if the front office actively tries to.
Dude we had 14 million to give a center.
colombian0725 wrote:loweyecue wrote:colombian0725 wrote:I don't know where everyone on this board thinks we are going to find a point guard? We have no money to offer them. No trade pieces. You guys expect a point guard to come play here for a bag of peanuts.Last year that's exactly what people said about us finding a center. There's always something that can be worked if the front office actively tries to.
Dude we had 14 million to give a center.
Dude, we had jack shit to give a Center when people were discussing this last year. The new CBA and amnesty made this possible and our front office wasn't asleep on the wheel. By next year we will have a bunch a one year contracts we can wipe out we will also have trade assets in Shumpert, Jory's and F ields. All we need is a decent PG not some all star HOFer
colombian0725 wrote:Yeah because they giving away another amnesty. None of those guys on that list are all stars but will be looking for over 5 million. Felton is making 7 million in Portland right now.
I am late to this conversation. Baron is coming back in a few weeks. And next year Nash comes on the market, and because of his age, career, propensity to live in NY in the offseason, I see him as a viable off-the-bench option behind Baron. Perhaps it would take the MLE, perhaps Nash would be OK with the vet minimum. Perhaps Phoenix doesn't want to get nada for losing Nash and is willing to take back Fields, TD in a sign-and-trade.
In the very least, the possibilities are there. And I want to say that Baron and Nash as your PGs next year is viable.
Denver takes no account to the money that they saved, paying the luxury tax, from being over the salary cap of over 70m
to paying under 40m of salary. Randolph and Curry can go to Wolves but it comes out of Denver's cut...
For what we payed, we should have at least got back Nene with Melo....
The original low ball deal was and if we should not have given much more than that. We will see you in FA, is the exact attitude we should have had.
Adding Melo did not improve our team we went backwards. Adding a "star" or TC to our core, we had enough for 1 max FA, if we got rid of Turiafs contract in the summer.
Gallo
1st round pick
AR
Curry
1) Eddy Curry's expiring
2) Gallo he had the most value, so he probably had to go
3) choose one from below, let Denver choose between
A) 1st round pick
Fields
AR
1 GS 2nd round pick *not this summers*
exchange of future 1st round pick
B) Wilson Chandler *NO 1st round pick included*
AR
exchange of 1st round picks
C) MozGoV *NO 1st round pick included*
AR
Fields
1 2nd round GS pick, not this summers
D) No Gallo
Wilson Chandler
MozGoV
Fields
1st round pick
2 GS 2nd round picks
Another PG, some still with potential, to be mentored, and ready to contribute at the same time
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1) Dragic *played very well when started for Lowry, this year*
2) Sessions
3) Udrih *player option, I have always liked him but he might need a sign and trade*
4) Dooling *nice combo guard, wouldn't cost much, and would team up with Iman defensively*
5) Janeero Pargo *nice backup player with quickness*
6) Gaines
7) Farmer
8) Delonte West
Another SG option
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1) Ray Allen *still one of the best shooters in the league and can produce for another 2 years at this level*
2) Terry *I know he isn't young anymore, but he is still one of the best clutch shooters. At his age, I don't know what his value would be, but I think the MLE is the most he can get*
3) Barbosa *MDA friendly, but has been inconsistent with injuries, suited as a 6th man role*
4) Anthony Parker *low volume shooter and shouldn't cost much, he resigned a 1year 2.5m deal with Cavs*
5) Belinelli
G/F I think we need a couple of different players in this position
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1) Mike Dunleavy *signed a 2 year deal with Bucks, think his versatility, IQ, and skills would fit NY pefect. However, has injuries the past couple years*
2) Delfino
3) Ariza *also has problems with injuries, his versatility and athleticism, and game can change the tempo and initiate fast breaks for the 2nd unit and starting at times.
3 year deal left, with last as player option, making 6.8, 7.25, and 7.75, is a realistic S&T to save money for New Orleans, they have a couple players at the position*
4) Ersan Ilyasova
5) Budinger
6) Nicolas Batum *think he will get more than the MLE, not really a realistic option for us*
7) Wilson Chandler *don't think the full MLE would be enough, but really miss him*
8) Pietrus
PF/C We need someone capable of playing with TC at PF and Center with Amare
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1) KG *would work wonders on the defensive end with TC, however, at his age, would the full MLE be worth it, and would he even consider it?*
2) Camby *probably bi annual exemption*
3) Bass *player option and will most likely out of his 4m player option, would take our full MLE to sign*
4) Ak47 *wouldn't pay MLE for him, but would be a nice player to have*
5) Ryan Anderson *RFA, don't think hes a realistic option, way he is playing the MLE would be matched by Orlando
6) Mahimi
7) Boris Diaw
8) Ryan Hollins
9) Samardo Samuels
10) Turiaf
Starter: 27-30 min/game
1. Kidd/Nash
3. Miller/Baron
Backup: Lin 18-21 min/game
upstate wrote:Key for this team is a smart, pass-first PG who can penetrate and D up when needed. That is why I am in favor of playing Lin more. In terms of the list, Kidd and Nash would both be excellent assuming we don't play them 40 minutes a game. Kidd is better on D (6 steals last night!) and Nash on O.Starter: 27-30 min/game
1. Kidd/Nash
3. Miller/BaronBackup: Lin 18-21 min/game
Oh yeah Lin has great.
colombian0725 wrote:upstate wrote:Key for this team is a smart, pass-first PG who can penetrate and D up when needed. That is why I am in favor of playing Lin more. In terms of the list, Kidd and Nash would both be excellent assuming we don't play them 40 minutes a game. Kidd is better on D (6 steals last night!) and Nash on O.Starter: 27-30 min/game
1. Kidd/Nash
3. Miller/BaronBackup: Lin 18-21 min/game
Oh yeah Lin has great.
Lin's hasn't been great of course, but he has not gotten the minutes to see one way or the other. I am basing the recommendation on my having seen him play almost all of his pro games, but I don't expect others to be convinced until after he has gotten the minutes and go through the inevitable ups and downs of a young player.
upstate wrote:Key for this team is a smart, pass-first PG who can penetrate and D up when needed. That is why I am in favor of playing Lin more. In terms of the list, Kidd and Nash would both be excellent assuming we don't play them 40 minutes a game. Kidd is better on D (6 steals last night!) and Nash on O.Starter: 27-30 min/game
1. Kidd/Nash
3. Miller/BaronBackup: Lin 18-21 min/game
I agree Lin should have seen playing time way before last night. We have literally given everyone a shot, we need 2 players that can penetrate to the basket at all times.
It is part of the reason why we cannot produce, its in all our scouting reports that we CAN NOT penetrate.
Good things happen when we can take it to the paint, as the defense gets broken down, our opponents will be forced to choose switch or double, leading to players open.
The defense are playing the shot and penetration half ass, they were so surprised to see TD drive pass them, because he barely has done it all year.
Fields pump fakes every time get gets the ball at the 3point line, when no one is falling for it, he just gives them extra time to come up, and make his decision making even harder.
At this point of his career, Kidd can still pass, but he cannot penetrate. Meaning the penetration must be coming from another position.
Dirk, can take his guy of the dribble, and is very skilled. He can post up, drive in, shoot it on u, drive in for pull up, or take it in all the way.
I just don't know if Kidd would be as effective here. Last year Barea, Terry, and Dirk, with some Marion were the main penetrators.
With Dirk and Marion being the post up players, moving the ball to the open man, with 4 shooters on the floor together, that is capable of hitting the 3pointer.
RonRon wrote:upstate wrote:Key for this team is a smart, pass-first PG who can penetrate and D up when needed. That is why I am in favor of playing Lin more. In terms of the list, Kidd and Nash would both be excellent assuming we don't play them 40 minutes a game. Kidd is better on D (6 steals last night!) and Nash on O.Starter: 27-30 min/game
1. Kidd/Nash
3. Miller/BaronBackup: Lin 18-21 min/game
I agree Lin should have seen playing time way before last night. We have literally given everyone a shot, we need 2 players that can penetrate to the basket at all times.
It is part of the reason why we cannot produce, its in all our scouting reports that we CAN NOT penetrate.Good things happen when we can take it to the paint, as the defense gets broken down, our opponents will be forced to choose switch or double, leading to players open.
The defense are playing the shot and penetration half ass, they were so surprised to see TD drive pass them, because he barely has done it all year.Fields pump fakes every time get gets the ball at the 3point line, when no one is falling for it, he just gives them extra time to come up, and make his decision making even harder.
At this point of his career, Kidd can still pass, but he cannot penetrate. Meaning the penetration must be coming from another position.Dirk, can take his guy of the dribble, and is very skilled. He can post up, drive in, shoot it on u, drive in for pull up, or take it in all the way.
I just don't know if Kidd would be as effective here. Last year Barea, Terry, and Dirk, with some Marion were the main penetrators.
With Dirk and Marion being the post up players, moving the ball to the open man, with 4 shooters on the floor together, that is capable of hitting the 3pointer.
Agree, probably Kidd's biggest issue would be his ability to consisntently penetrate. My hope is that with limited minutes he can still run PNR and get to the hoop, and that he is not doing it much now because it makes more sense to have Dirk run the show as point forward, as Dirk is not a slasher/PNR player with the athleticism of Stat or even Chandler. Kidd still gets plenty of assists in the open court and from running the motion offense. I am also hoping that Kidd's experience and basketball smarts would rub off onto the other players, as the Knicks are sorely lacking in that area. Among those four, probably Miller would still be best at getting into the lane, but he is not a good defender, and I'm not sure about his leadership for such a group that really needs a strong one; Baron should be able to both penetrate and be a leader, but his durability, fitness, and drive are a concern; we should find out shortly. Either way, Lin would be a good complement to any of these experienced players with his athleticism, defense, not to mention cheap contract if the Knicks resign him, and he could develop behind an experienced veteran.