Knicks · Ball Movement.... (page 1)

I see plenty of people complaining about the lack of ball movement. If we're watching carefully, we all see the ball swing from one side of the court to next only to end up in the hands of Feilds, Walker or Shump only to have them hesitate and blow an open look. The ball ends up back in Melo's hands and he doesn't have a choice but to launch.

Without even looking at other rosters, I dont think I'm exaggerating when I say we currently have the worst perimeter team in the league. Feilds, Douglas, Walker and the Rook. With the exception of Shump on occasion, none of our guards are equiped to put the ball on the floor, collapse the D and get an open look/easy shot for Melo, Amare or Chandler. Our frontline has to work extremely hard for every single basket. Our frontline is basically on their own in terms of creating offense for each other. Since this is the case, thats why you see so much one-on-one basketball. Melo is the only one sho can get off a shot one-on-one which is why he ends up launching because our guards have a tough time creating for themselves let alone others. We need a playmaker on the perimeter.

Speaking of creating for ourselves, our coach is supposed to be an offensive guru. Its up to him to game plan and put us in a position to be creative. Baseline Flex cuts, 2 man games with Melo and Amare, etc....

You are correct in that our guards do not compliment Melo and Stoudemire well. Shumpert can create and of course earns his keep with his defense alone. Fields, Douglas, and Walker are useless playing off of Melo. Imagine guys like Reddick, Turk, and Ryan Anderson in this offense? We need to upgrade our perimeter depth to include players that are consistent outside shooters and bring something to the table. Watching Walker is like watching QRich or Shandon Anderson when they were on the Knicks. It's just disgusting. We badly need a couple of shooters who can just make teams pay, and right now we don't have that.

Uptown wrote:I see plenty of people complaining about the lack of ball movement. If we're watching carefully, we all see the ball swing from one side of the court to next only to end up in the hands of Feilds, Walker or Shump only to have them hesitate and blow an open look. The ball ends up back in Melo's hands and he doesn't have a choice but to launch.

Without even looking at other rosters, I dont think I'm exaggerating when I say we currently have the worst perimeter team in the league. Feilds, Douglas, Walker and the Rook. With the exception of Shump on occasion, none of our guards are equiped to put the ball on the floor, collapse the D and get an open look/easy shot for Melo, Amare or Chandler. Our frontline has to work extremely hard for every single basket. Our frontline is basically on their own in terms of creating offense for each other. Since this is the case, thats why you see so much one-on-one basketball. Melo is the only one sho can get off a shot one-on-one which is why he ends up launching because our guards have a tough time creating for themselves let alone others. We need a playmaker on the perimeter.

Speaking of creating for ourselves, our coach is supposed to be an offensive guru. Its up to him to game plan and put us in a position to be creative. Baseline Flex cuts, 2 man games with Melo and Amare, etc....

Yeah man I been saying it for a long time. They swing the ball around and are too scared to shoot and the ball ends up in melo's hands with 5 secs left.

Knixkik wrote:You are correct in that our guards do not compliment Melo and Stoudemire well. Shumpert can create and of course earns his keep with his defense alone. Fields, Douglas, and Walker are useless playing off of Melo. Imagine guys like Reddick, Turk, and Ryan Anderson in this offense? We need to upgrade our perimeter depth to include players that are consistent outside shooters and bring something to the table. Watching Walker is like watching QRich or Shandon Anderson when they were on the Knicks. It's just disgusting. We badly need a couple of shooters who can just make teams pay, and right now we don't have that.

Shooters would definitely help, but ultimately, we need a playmaker. We dont need Anthony initiating our offense, but we need a pg he can play off of. Anthony would be a dangerous catch and shoot player. But only if we had a pg who could get in the lane, draw defenders and get him an open look on the elbow. Make the game easier for him. Not to mention, a pg to play pick and roll with Amare and hit Shump slashing to the basket from the baseline. A playmaker would take the load off of Melo and the rest of the front line and keep them from wearing out.

When Melo is in the game, everyone else seems scared to take a shot.

VDesai wrote:When Melo is in the game, everyone else seems scared to take a shot.

Clearly not Shumpert lol

colombian0725 wrote:

VDesai wrote:When Melo is in the game, everyone else seems scared to take a shot.

Clearly not Shumpert lol

Its more like Melo drop 50 every game and save us from our manginas

Isolation ball isn't necessarily ineffective, especially with the best isolation scorer in the league (it works with Kobe, doesn't it?!) The problem with it on our team is that the perimeter players surrounding Melo can't hit the damn ball from three and NO ONE CUTS, making it easier for Melo to be guarded by multiple players. If Melo draws the double team and kicks it out, it usually swings around with no one wanting to take the open shot before it comes back to Melo.

I saw Douglas and Shumpert put the ball on the floor on separate possessions and convert at the basket off Melo doubles. That's good. But we need capable shooters and we need cutters above everything else. Isoball doesn't work with our guys shooting sub-35% from behind the arc.

Uptown wrote:I see plenty of people complaining about the lack of ball movement. If we're watching carefully, we all see the ball swing from one side of the court to next only to end up in the hands of Feilds, Walker or Shump only to have them hesitate and blow an open look. The ball ends up back in Melo's hands and he doesn't have a choice but to launch.

Speaking of creating for ourselves, our coach is supposed to be an offensive guru. Its up to him to game plan and put us in a position to be creative. Baseline Flex cuts, 2 man games with Melo and Amare, etc....

1) I think when Melo passes the ball and it goes around and then back again to Melo. The point of the passing seems to be to clear Melo's double team, so he can attack the basket, rather than encouraging the other players to shoot.

2) Concerning blaming MDA for not fine tuning the offense already, did you forget that he had the team concentrating on improving our team defense most of the available practice time thus far in the season. He hasn't yet begun to concentrate on the team's offense. Logically that will begin to happen when Baron Davis takes the floor, don't you thinkl?

this team needs baron so badly.

Am I the only one to notice that in the fourth, once Melo and Chandler came back in, Amare never touched the rock again until less than 2minutes to go! Well, he touched it once, going for an offensive rebound. DumdumDouglas seemed allergic to passing to Amare and only gave it up to Melo. That is when he wasn't running in circles (passing to no one) until late in the clock when he'd force feed it to "Jarad!!" Or a Bad pass to Melo?

Stat was hot in the fourth only to get phased out.

Its becoming a regular occurrence and the coach should have addressed this long ago. Guys should know their place and Douglas should know WHO is supposed to have the ball or touch the ball before he chucks.

DurzoBlint wrote:Am I the only one to notice that in the fourth, once Melo and Chandler came back in, Amare never touched the rock again until less than 2minutes to go! Well, he touched it once, going for an offensive rebound. DumdumDouglas seemed allergic to passing to Amare and only gave it up to Melo. That is when he wasn't running in circles (passing to no one) until late in the clock when he'd force feed it to "Jarad!!" Or a Bad pass to Melo?

Stat was hot in the fourth only to get phased out.

Its becoming a regular occurrence and the coach should have addressed this long ago. Guys should know their place and Douglas should know WHO is supposed to have the ball or touch the ball before he chucks.

Don't discount the defense played on Amare.

They can take him away but if the rest of the team won't execute then we lose.

Yesterday we took Howard out of the game. Magic role players steped up and Executed.

Magic win.

Knick opponents priority is:

Cover Melo on the perimeter, then double when he goes to the basket, then cut off passing lane to Amare.

If you do that who is left? Option 1 is Tyson but the inside is clogged. Looks like Shump/Douglas had good looks. TD had some good floaters. Shump was tentitive. Bibby was limited it seems (by health?) and Lando is becomeing usless from the outside.

Jorts is our only shooter from the three these days. MDA's new "Diaw/Extra E" player.

This is not about Baron because Baron will still have to execute the play and either he, Shump or TD has to start hitting the shots.

Its execution.

Stat needs to watch James Worth videos or of Karl Malone. They hit thier jumpers and when respected the defender has to go out on them. Stat can blow by all bigs in the league but he has to exectute his dribble a bit better.

With Melo, Stat, and Chandler team needs supreme PG and sharp shooting SGs in starting lineup and off the bench.
Guys like Fields, TD, and other scrubs we have are useless it this respect. Shrimp is 2-3 years away from being useful.
Just wrong personal. Hopefully we can get players who feet better... not sure how...

Nalod wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:Am I the only one to notice that in the fourth, once Melo and Chandler came back in, Amare never touched the rock again until less than 2minutes to go! Well, he touched it once, going for an offensive rebound. DumdumDouglas seemed allergic to passing to Amare and only gave it up to Melo. That is when he wasn't running in circles (passing to no one) until late in the clock when he'd force feed it to "Jarad!!" Or a Bad pass to Melo?

Stat was hot in the fourth only to get phased out.

Its becoming a regular occurrence and the coach should have addressed this long ago. Guys should know their place and Douglas should know WHO is supposed to have the ball or touch the ball before he chucks.

Don't discount the defense played on Amare.

They can take him away but if the rest of the team won't execute then we lose.

Yesterday we took Howard out of the game. Magic role players steped up and Executed.

Magic win.

Knick opponents priority is:

Cover Melo on the perimeter, then double when he goes to the basket, then cut off passing lane to Amare.

If you do that who is left? Option 1 is Tyson but the inside is clogged. Looks like Shump/Douglas had good looks. TD had some good floaters. Shump was tentitive. Bibby was limited it seems (by health?) and Lando is becomeing usless from the outside.

Jorts is our only shooter from the three these days. MDA's new "Diaw/Extra E" player.

This is not about Baron because Baron will still have to execute the play and either he, Shump or TD has to start hitting the shots.

Its execution.

Stat needs to watch James Worth videos or of Karl Malone. They hit thier jumpers and when respected the defender has to go out on them. Stat can blow by all bigs in the league but he has to exectute his dribble a bit better.

Wasn't about Defense at all. Douglas ran right past Amare while he was wide open with his hand out for the ball twice in a row. Once was to force feed a pass to Melo and the other time he chucked a floater that rimmed out. The fact that so much time went by without him even touching the ball is unacceptable.

Guys need to know that Amare and Melo are the FIRST options and they better touch the ball before anyone else chucks up a shot. This has been on the coach from day 1.

The Howard non-touches has been a problem for the Magic from his first day there. They constantly forget about him when their perimeter game is on. Nothing new there.

DurzoBlint wrote:

Nalod wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:Am I the only one to notice that in the fourth, once Melo and Chandler came back in, Amare never touched the rock again until less than 2minutes to go! Well, he touched it once, going for an offensive rebound. DumdumDouglas seemed allergic to passing to Amare and only gave it up to Melo. That is when he wasn't running in circles (passing to no one) until late in the clock when he'd force feed it to "Jarad!!" Or a Bad pass to Melo?

Stat was hot in the fourth only to get phased out.

Its becoming a regular occurrence and the coach should have addressed this long ago. Guys should know their place and Douglas should know WHO is supposed to have the ball or touch the ball before he chucks.

Don't discount the defense played on Amare.

They can take him away but if the rest of the team won't execute then we lose.

Yesterday we took Howard out of the game. Magic role players steped up and Executed.

Magic win.

Knick opponents priority is:

Cover Melo on the perimeter, then double when he goes to the basket, then cut off passing lane to Amare.

If you do that who is left? Option 1 is Tyson but the inside is clogged. Looks like Shump/Douglas had good looks. TD had some good floaters. Shump was tentitive. Bibby was limited it seems (by health?) and Lando is becomeing usless from the outside.

Jorts is our only shooter from the three these days. MDA's new "Diaw/Extra E" player.

This is not about Baron because Baron will still have to execute the play and either he, Shump or TD has to start hitting the shots.

Its execution.

Stat needs to watch James Worth videos or of Karl Malone. They hit thier jumpers and when respected the defender has to go out on them. Stat can blow by all bigs in the league but he has to exectute his dribble a bit better.

Wasn't about Defense at all. Douglas ran right past Amare while he was wide open with his hand out for the ball twice in a row. Once was to force feed a pass to Melo and the other time he chucked a floater that rimmed out. The fact that so much time went by without him even touching the ball is unacceptable.

Guys need to know that Amare and Melo are the FIRST options and they better touch the ball before anyone else chucks up a shot. This has been on the coach from day 1.

The Howard non-touches has been a problem for the Magic from his first day there. They constantly forget about him when their perimeter game is on. Nothing new there.

I don't know the play, but if Amare is sitting out past 15 feet and TD takes a floater thats a better shot.

Knicks did't take Howard away, but instead the Magic "forgot" him when the three was flying?

Look, not to beat this to death but sometimes teams win and some times you get beaten. I though we played well for 3 qtrs then got beat. I thought Orlando gave us some things and we failed to execute. They executed. They won.

Nalod wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Nalod wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:Am I the only one to notice that in the fourth, once Melo and Chandler came back in, Amare never touched the rock again until less than 2minutes to go! Well, he touched it once, going for an offensive rebound. DumdumDouglas seemed allergic to passing to Amare and only gave it up to Melo. That is when he wasn't running in circles (passing to no one) until late in the clock when he'd force feed it to "Jarad!!" Or a Bad pass to Melo?

Stat was hot in the fourth only to get phased out.

Its becoming a regular occurrence and the coach should have addressed this long ago. Guys should know their place and Douglas should know WHO is supposed to have the ball or touch the ball before he chucks.

Don't discount the defense played on Amare.

They can take him away but if the rest of the team won't execute then we lose.

Yesterday we took Howard out of the game. Magic role players steped up and Executed.

Magic win.

Knick opponents priority is:

Cover Melo on the perimeter, then double when he goes to the basket, then cut off passing lane to Amare.

If you do that who is left? Option 1 is Tyson but the inside is clogged. Looks like Shump/Douglas had good looks. TD had some good floaters. Shump was tentitive. Bibby was limited it seems (by health?) and Lando is becomeing usless from the outside.

Jorts is our only shooter from the three these days. MDA's new "Diaw/Extra E" player.

This is not about Baron because Baron will still have to execute the play and either he, Shump or TD has to start hitting the shots.

Its execution.

Stat needs to watch James Worth videos or of Karl Malone. They hit thier jumpers and when respected the defender has to go out on them. Stat can blow by all bigs in the league but he has to exectute his dribble a bit better.

Wasn't about Defense at all. Douglas ran right past Amare while he was wide open with his hand out for the ball twice in a row. Once was to force feed a pass to Melo and the other time he chucked a floater that rimmed out. The fact that so much time went by without him even touching the ball is unacceptable.

Guys need to know that Amare and Melo are the FIRST options and they better touch the ball before anyone else chucks up a shot. This has been on the coach from day 1.

The Howard non-touches has been a problem for the Magic from his first day there. They constantly forget about him when their perimeter game is on. Nothing new there.

I don't know the play, but if Amare is sitting out past 15 feet and TD takes a floater thats a better shot.

Knicks did't take Howard away, but instead the Magic "forgot" him when the three was flying?

Look, not to beat this to death but sometimes teams win and some times you get beaten. I though we played well for 3 qtrs then got beat. I thought Orlando gave us some things and we failed to execute. They executed. They won.

YEAH, We were great but the issues I'm talking about happened in the 4th and contributed to the loss. A loss I put on the heads of (1st) the coach, (2nd) Melo for not chucking bad shots and (4th) Douglas for not knowing his role and his inability to do anything resembling a point guard in the 4th. He's a chucker who should not be driving down the lane, running in circles without passing the ball to anyone.

The game is supposed to be easy yet, our main players have to work too hard to score buckets. When is the last time Stat got an easy dunk off of penetration? When is the last first time Melo got an open look on the elbow because one of our guards put the ball on the floor, collapsed the D and kicked it out? The game shouldn't be as hard as our team is making it out to be.

Uptown wrote:The game is supposed to be easy yet, our main players have to work too hard to score buckets. When is the last time Stat got an easy dunk off of penetration? When is the last first time Melo got an open look on the elbow because one of our guards put the ball on the floor, collapsed the D and kicked it out? The game shouldn't be as hard as our team is making it out to be.

(after Game 4, 1999 Series ve Miami)

MSG Usher: "Dese guys don't do nuttin' da easy way"

VDesai wrote:When Melo is in the game, everyone else seems scared to take a shot.

Yep

Honestly, the only time I noticed that the ball did not move was when TD was in.

NYKBocker wrote:Honestly, the only time I noticed that the ball did not move was when TD was in.

that is who I'm talking about.