Knicks · Completely against bringing in JR Smith now (page 1)

No need--we have three point shooters--we do NOT need a ball-hogging guy like that we need team players. We already have two ball dominant players who will need to taylor their games. If there is a player out there that can help this team--Im all for it but I think we can also go with what we have and be successful if everyone buys in. JR Smith now makes no sense for this team. We have Walker Novak Shumpert Douglas and Fields

I'd still like to understand why anyone thought Junior Starphuck waiting to happen was a good idea in any scenario.

There's a reason he and Marbles are in China. And it's not greater world harmony.

It could be addition with subtraction.... "Fools Gold"
Till Iman and TD can hit shots consistently, we have to rely on Walker/Novak.
Fields has been much improved, but that is one of our weakness, it depends if he really wants to play team ball.
I feel we lack talents but those guys play the right way and are finding chemistry with each other with Melo out.
It would be good enough to get by but I am not sure what would happen vs a better defensive team.
Lin has weaknesses, he hasn't been exposed yet. His main strength is driving right while he does have a few moves to counter it.
But it was nice to see them play the "right way" since last year.
The speed/quickness of going small, helps Dantoni's game as much as the teams.
Of course we still had to make shots, but it was much better team effort and spacing.
Cutters, movement off the ball, and open men were rewarded.
Most importantly, our 3rd string players got rewarded last night, while Bibby and TD were put in the dog house.
We have to motivate our 3rd string guys and give them incentive to continue to work hard and develop.
I have been calling it out all year, especially with Lin.
Iman finally shows what he can do when the defense isn't focused on him and there is room in the paint.
He is the 2nd penetration guy that can pull up for the jump shot, while he has the ability to drive in and finish.
But as the only 1 person, he has problems doing it with traffic, and he is willing to let Melo and Amare go 1v1 way to much.
It is a tough year for him to learn in this system with no practice and this shortened season.

I would much prefer AK47 over Jr. Smith for these reasons. While he could be able to play SF, F, and even Center.
He could greatly help Chandler together, while being a 30% 3point shooter in low volumes.
On most nights, he can come in for anyone of our 3 "stars".

I completely disagree with this assessment...I wanted to start a thread about something similar but here goes...One thing that I have noticed all season long is the corner three is wide open at key times in big games...Landry Fields has not been knocking those open jumpers down..When the Knicks get to the playoffs, we will need a guy out there who isn't afraid to take that shot...Fields had that shot against Boston in the 4th quarter and didn't even hit the rim...I can't even count the number of those big open threes Fields have missed this season...That shot will be there all year because Melo is being doubled and the lanes will be clogged preventing Amare's pick and roll at key times...Novak can't do anything else but shoot, we can't have a liability like that on the court during the playoffs...That open three will be the difference in competing with the better teams or go home...We beat the Nets and Jazz, we aren't done building yet...

I didn't want JR Smith when we were on our nightmarish losing streak and I don't want him now. The guy has lapses on defense and hogs the ball. Let it be known, this will NOT be a guy that is just sitting in the corner hitting open 3s, as holfresh implied. If you desperately want a guy who hits the open 3 without playing defense then just put Novak in. He's a better and more consistent shooter anyway. There's no need to bring in a guy who may shoot A LITTLE better than Iman and Fields but takes minutes away from them, even though they both probably do everything else better.

Stay away from this guy. PLEASE PLEASE PRETTY PLEASE. I took enough of a gut punch with the Melo trade.

holfresh wrote:I completely disagree with this assessment...I wanted to start a thread about something similar but here goes...One thing that I have noticed all season long is the corner three is wide open at key times in big games...Landry Fields has not been knocking those open jumpers down..When the Knicks get to the playoffs, we will need a guy out there who isn't afraid to take that shot...Fields had that shot against Boston in the 4th quarter and didn't even hit the rim...I can't even count the number of those big open threes Fields have missed this season...That shot will be there all year because Melo is being doubled and the lanes will be clogged preventing Amare's pick and roll at key times...Novak can't do anything else but shoot, we can't have a liability like that on the court during the playoffs...That open three will be the difference in competing with the better teams or go home...We beat the Nets and Jazz, we aren't done building yet...

you are correct and I agree to some extend. I just feel we are heading the right way with Lin's penetration, its opening up games for others.
It has been missing all year and I have been saying it the whole time. Jr Smith is another high volume shooter, I just don't want that kind of basketball.
We finally get Melo and Amare to see what the players on our bench can do with good ball movement and penetration.
While Melo has greatly changed his shot selection already, he doesn't move the ball enough, often not giving it to the open guy, even though he draws the double teams.
Novak just went bonkers last night but Lin helped open the game up for him and for the team.
Lin isn't in the same catagory as Cp3 but when the ball is in his hands, good things happen.
We really could use a talent like Jr Smith but without the cancer locker room presence and not at the cost of ball movement + chemistry...

RonRon wrote:

holfresh wrote:I completely disagree with this assessment...I wanted to start a thread about something similar but here goes...One thing that I have noticed all season long is the corner three is wide open at key times in big games...Landry Fields has not been knocking those open jumpers down..When the Knicks get to the playoffs, we will need a guy out there who isn't afraid to take that shot...Fields had that shot against Boston in the 4th quarter and didn't even hit the rim...I can't even count the number of those big open threes Fields have missed this season...That shot will be there all year because Melo is being doubled and the lanes will be clogged preventing Amare's pick and roll at key times...Novak can't do anything else but shoot, we can't have a liability like that on the court during the playoffs...That open three will be the difference in competing with the better teams or go home...We beat the Nets and Jazz, we aren't done building yet...

you are correct and I agree to some extend. I just feel we are heading the right way with Lin's penetration, its opening up games for others.
It has been missing all year and I have been saying it the whole time. Jr Smith is another high volume shooter, I just don't want that kind of basketball.
We finally get Melo and Amare to see what the players on our bench can do with good ball movement and penetration.
While Melo has greatly changed his shot selection already, he doesn't move the ball enough, often not giving it to the open guy, even though he draws the double teams.
Novak just went bonkers last night but Lin helped open the game up for him and for the team.
Lin isn't in the same catagory as Cp3 but when the ball is in his hands, good things happen.
We really could use a talent like Jr Smith but without the cancer locker room presence and not at the cost of ball movement + chemistry...

Agreed with Holfresh...Like you said, Lin's penetration is opneing it up for others and still Fields and Shump to an extend are bricking 3's. We win the gamd against Boston if JR gets the open look Shump and Fields got. JR is the perfect 6th man. If his shot is falling you leave him in, if it aint, you yank him.

All good team have players with JR's abilities; for example Jason Terry of the Mavs.

Smith guarantees that Douglas doesn't play.

He will provide bench scoring threat (spark) and can create his own offense.

He helps in case of injuries and can help reduce injuries by limiting the minutes of our stars.

Smith's attitude problems are overblown. He elevates this team to elite status imo.

D'Antoni doesn't use Melo and Novak together because they play the same position. That's why when Melo's out, ball movement looks far better than Melo's iso facilitation---the spacing improves a ton.

Again, JR is a 40% three-point threat. 40%. Landry was utterly useless in the fourth quarter against the jazz. Turnovers and little production. We NEED JR as our bench scorer and to play him in the crucial minutes of the 4th quarter. I don't trust Fields to hit big shots, yet.

I totally disagree. He is an upgrade over Walker because he is more consistant shooting and just has a better all around game. NY still needs more bench production and he is another ball handler that can run the PnR. Also you need guys that can get to the rack of the dribble.

airchibundo507 wrote:D'Antoni doesn't use Melo and Novak together because they play the same position. That's why when Melo's out, ball movement looks far better than Melo's iso facilitation---the spacing improves a ton.

Again, JR is a 40% three-point threat. 40%. Landry was utterly useless in the fourth quarter against the jazz. Turnovers and little production. We NEED JR as our bench scorer and to play him in the crucial minutes of the 4th quarter. I don't trust Fields to hit big shots, yet.

The defense of Fields and his smart play suggest otherwise.

Allanfan20 wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:D'Antoni doesn't use Melo and Novak together because they play the same position. That's why when Melo's out, ball movement looks far better than Melo's iso facilitation---the spacing improves a ton.

Again, JR is a 40% three-point threat. 40%. Landry was utterly useless in the fourth quarter against the jazz. Turnovers and little production. We NEED JR as our bench scorer and to play him in the crucial minutes of the 4th quarter. I don't trust Fields to hit big shots, yet.

The defense of Fields and his smart play suggest otherwise.

Suggest what? He had two crucial turnovers. If he's not shooting lights out at the start of a game, defenses don't consider him a threat. He didn't make a three last night. He has been great the last 2-3 weeks. But he's not the lights out shooter the team needs to be elite.

That's why JR should come off the bench and close games out with the starting unit.

Obviously, all we need on this team is instant offense.

Defense is for assistant coaches.

By golly, those Dallas Mavs won a chip because suddenly everyone appreciated the value of Dirk's 20 and 10.

I'll take Landry's D and hustle.

Lin had 8 turnovers in the second half, maybe he's a bum too.

Defense is not our problem this year. It's quite clearly the offense.

The Mavericks last year weren't as flawed as we are now. They had ample shooters so spacing wasn't an issue. They had a steady stream of bench scoring with Barea and their closer, Terry, coming off the bench.

Terry's role is what I want JR to have here in NY.

A guy playing for a future contract won't be team oriented. I'd say if we can sign him for 3-4 years and he buys in cuz he is getting paid then Im ok. But to play the season out I don't think so.

He has a bad reputation.

Nalod wrote:(JR) has a bad reputation.

So did Spree.

This isn’t a video game or a fantasy league, chemistry and playing styles are of great importance in the NBA and Smith is not going to magically change the way he plays overnight. He won't be available until after the All-Star break, and the jury is still out on his conditioning and overall state of mind after a bizarre tour in China.

There was a reason George Karl all but told reporters he was glad to see Smith go. With the Lakers and Knicks reportedly interested as well, take a step back and let Smith be another team’s headache.

Second, are there enough shots to go around? Considering Smith just dropped 60 (off the bench!) in a game in China, I'm going to go ahead and say he probably hasn't changed the way he plays the game. It's likely the offense will still stop once the ball touches his hands.

It's interesting to see if the same people who hate Melo's ISO tendencies are the same people saying JR Mr Me First Smith would be a welcome addition to this team.

misterearl wrote:

Nalod wrote:(JR) has a bad reputation.

So did Spree.

Yes, I see JR Smith and Spree being almost the same person.

Please stop.

jrodmc wrote:

This isn’t a video game or a fantasy league, chemistry and playing styles are of great importance in the NBA and Smith is not going to magically change the way he plays overnight. He won't be available until after the All-Star break, and the jury is still out on his conditioning and overall state of mind after a bizarre tour in China.

There was a reason George Karl all but told reporters he was glad to see Smith go. With the Lakers and Knicks reportedly interested as well, take a step back and let Smith be another team’s headache.

Second, are there enough shots to go around? Considering Smith just dropped 60 (off the bench!) in a game in China, I'm going to go ahead and say he probably hasn't changed the way he plays the game. It's likely the offense will still stop once the ball touches his hands.

Believe it or not Melo iso-ball carried the Nuggets to the WCF, and JR played a major role in that happening.

That's how Melo scores when an offense doesn't generate shots for him as it does KD and Granger. If you want isolation ball to succeed, he needs scorers. Let me predict the future for you:

Lin, Melo and Amare start playing major minutes together.

It's interesting to see if the same people who hate Melo's ISO tendencies are the same people saying JR Mr Me First Smith would be a welcome addition to this team.

believe it or not, Melo's iso-ball carried the Nuggets to the WCF, and JR played a major role in that happening. Lin helps get our bigs involved, which is especially critical for utilizing Amare to his full potential, but in order to use Melo to his full potential, he needs a pure shooter with him on the floor at all times. The spacing with Melo on the floor has been complete sh*t this entire season, and D'Antoni still won't play Novak and Melo together for major minutes. Lin is not a three-point shooter and Fields has not been one this season.

airchibundo507 wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:D'Antoni doesn't use Melo and Novak together because they play the same position. That's why when Melo's out, ball movement looks far better than Melo's iso facilitation---the spacing improves a ton.

Again, JR is a 40% three-point threat. 40%. Landry was utterly useless in the fourth quarter against the jazz. Turnovers and little production. We NEED JR as our bench scorer and to play him in the crucial minutes of the 4th quarter. I don't trust Fields to hit big shots, yet.

The defense of Fields and his smart play suggest otherwise.

Suggest what? He had two crucial turnovers. If he's not shooting lights out at the start of a game, defenses don't consider him a threat. He didn't make a three last night. He has been great the last 2-3 weeks. But he's not the lights out shooter the team needs to be elite.

That's why JR should come off the bench and close games out with the starting unit.

JR has the same playoff success as Melo, which is very little. He's not a necesity. You didn't answer my question either. Why do we need Smith, who doesn't really do much else besides shoot 3s, besides occasionally use his athleticism to drive and make a nice dunk, when we already have Iman and Novak? Are we really that much better off putting Smith on the floor as opposed to Iman, who plays good D and can score in different ways? Plus he's developing a midrange game.

jrodmc wrote:

misterearl wrote:

Nalod wrote:(JR) has a bad reputation.

So did Spree.

Yes, I see JR Smith and Spree being almost the same person.

Please stop.

Completely different players and personalities. If I could take back Spree I wouldn't. The guy turned out to be a complete jackass who threw Ewing under the bus and pulled a Stephon Marbury with his "I felt alone out there" act after we got beat by the Raptors. He was the epitome of a piss poor teammate.