This was a shtty team going nowhere that executed a lousy trade(Carmelo) got lucky with amnesty(Chandler) and from the looks of it signed a 100mm contract for a guy who played up to it for 60 games last year and now we may be up the creek. Waiting for Baron Davis to save this team--never ever wouldve happened. Both Lin(especially ) and Novak helped save this train luck and to be very honest it was luck. Now guys like dantoni grunwald etc... will be compensated heavily for this luck!!
And posters in here will still find a way to be miserable even if we luck a chip.
Yes, for sure BRIGGS there was luck involved this year. But it's way too early to declare Stat as an albatross. He is stagnating right now, but redemption is only possible with time. We have a brand new point guard who has clicked with Chandler more than Stat. Things are still evolving. They have had no training camp and little practice time together. Just because Stat is not AS explosive as before doesn't mean he has no game. Let's see how it plays out before we label the current Knicks a train wreck. Just the fact that we have a potential future star in Lin (for bubkis) is a HUGE lift for this team and changes everything.
Lots of Luck but cutting Chauncey after picking up his huge option and signing Chandler, well, that is calculated. They knew he was a great player. I can't call that luck in and of itself. Even some of our other moves.
Think about this, if Stat doesn't come here, does Melo? I still think so or we might have had Deron Williams, who I actually preferred. But would JR, Chandler, etc. have come as well with no Stat? That I am not so sure about, maybe not. So, even though Stat might be falling off (and we don't know for certain yet, but it doesn't look good), Stat might have been a 60 or so million dollar option to bring in some other players.
A lot of things came together, but I'll chalk it up to fate as it has been an incredible ride (since Lin came here). Absolutely Lin is what pulled this all together. Not exactly luck as we knew about him, but for sure it was involved, as it is for most teams. (e.g. Rose to the bulls, etc.) You take it.
and its bad luck McDyess broke his knee, Sweetney couldnt stop eating, Glen Rice couldnt play PF and Gallo wasnt Michael Jordan out of the box.
EVERY winning team has luck, especially in the NBA where there are fewer players and the margin for unknown is so much greater than the other sports.
The Chandler move was great skill, because LUCK would have been sitting around hoping for Chris Paul. Instead they had the balls to waive Billups to add a defensive anchor who would have a bigger impact anyway. Give them credit for that. If Douglas played as well as he did last year when he was a spot starter we would have been fine. His play was dismal however.
Not so sure that the gm and coach will reek the benefits because there is always the chance that Phil Jackson will be made gm & coach or least gm at the end of the year.
luck is always a major part of success.
Disagree that the trade was bad.
Without marquee appeal of a Melo, you don't necessarily get a Chandler, Baron Davis and other talent. It ain't as simple as you paint it Briggs.
BRIGGS wrote:This was a shtty team going nowhere that executed a lousy trade(Carmelo) got lucky with amnesty(Chandler) and from the looks of it signed a 100mm contract for a guy who played up to it for 60 games last year and now we may be up the creek. Waiting for Baron Davis to save this team--never ever wouldve happened. Both Lin(especially ) and Novak helped save this train luck and to be very honest it was luck. Now guys like dantoni grunwald etc... will be compensated heavily for this luck!!
Isiah got compensated for far worse.....
eViL wrote:lol. nice image.
The dog running is Melo....
The Dog in the train is Dolan...
nychamp wrote:Disagree that the trade was bad.Without marquee appeal of a Melo, you don't necessarily get a Chandler, Baron Davis and other talent. It ain't as simple as you paint it Briggs.
you have to included Amare in that also. The Melo/Amare combo was a big part of both Baron and Chandler picking the Knicks. MDA as well.
Lin? Total luck, right circumstances, etc
Again.. its part of the business. If the Pats had a decent offensive line then Drew Bledsoe doesnt get hurt and Tom Brady goes the way that most 6th round drafted QBs. Off to the scrap heap. Who knows if anyone else gives him a shot? Brady only played because of poor play resulting in an injured QB. Lin isnt much different. Part of what makes sports so great. You just never know
That is the NBA it's all about luck. Starts with draft and lotto.
fishmike wrote:nychamp wrote:Disagree that the trade was bad.Without marquee appeal of a Melo, you don't necessarily get a Chandler, Baron Davis and other talent. It ain't as simple as you paint it Briggs.
you have to included Amare in that also. The Melo/Amare combo was a big part of both Baron and Chandler picking the Knicks. MDA as well.Lin? Total luck, right circumstances, etc
Again.. its part of the business. If the Pats had a decent offensive line then Drew Bledsoe doesnt get hurt and Tom Brady goes the way that most 6th round drafted QBs. Off to the scrap heap. Who knows if anyone else gives him a shot? Brady only played because of poor play resulting in an injured QB. Lin isnt much different. Part of what makes sports so great. You just never know
And Tom Brady is picking up girls in the pub instead of tapping the likes of Bridgette Monyahan and Giselle.
Perhaps against a differnt opponent Giants don't win, and Eli is blown apart in the press, and not a two time Super QB heading to the HOF?
Nalod wrote:eViL wrote:lol. nice image.
The dog running is Melo....
The Dog in the train is Dolan...
i don't think you're seeing quite what we're seeing... there's a funny message from the image host.
Nalod wrote:fishmike wrote:nychamp wrote:Disagree that the trade was bad.Without marquee appeal of a Melo, you don't necessarily get a Chandler, Baron Davis and other talent. It ain't as simple as you paint it Briggs.
you have to included Amare in that also. The Melo/Amare combo was a big part of both Baron and Chandler picking the Knicks. MDA as well.Lin? Total luck, right circumstances, etc
Again.. its part of the business. If the Pats had a decent offensive line then Drew Bledsoe doesnt get hurt and Tom Brady goes the way that most 6th round drafted QBs. Off to the scrap heap. Who knows if anyone else gives him a shot? Brady only played because of poor play resulting in an injured QB. Lin isnt much different. Part of what makes sports so great. You just never know
And Tom Brady is picking up girls in the pub instead of tapping the likes of Bridgette Monyahan and Giselle.
Perhaps against a differnt opponent Giants don't win, and Eli is blown apart in the press, and not a two time Super QB heading to the HOF?
are you hating on pub girls? Tread carefully, else you edge on blashphemy.
Like Clyde says... serendipity (rhymes with bippity)
i'll take good luck over bad luck any day of the week.
Luck is always a part of it. How many titles would San Antonio have won if David Robinson had not gotten hurt the same year Duncan entered the draft. Philly picked van Horn number 2 that year. IF Robinson doesn't go down maybe Philly is looked at as this great organization while San Antonio is not.
Luck is always a part.
IMO it's not "luck" when you actually make smart moves to bring in any talent. For one thing the possibility always exists that any player you bring in can help your team. Novak was a known 3pt specialist and was here to replace what we lost in Shawne Williams. That's not luck!!! That's shrewd GM work.
Lin wasn't just some wing and a prayer type signing, even if he was brought in due to injury. They could've signed any warm body to be a safety net but instead they took a kid with POTENTIAL! That's not luck, that prudent GM due diligence. There was belief that Lin had talent. The question was just how good he could be. No one really thought he was a scrub. The prevailing thought I heard was he needed more development and opportunity. Teams face injury all the time in this league. It's what you do to fill that hole that makes the difference. If Lin was available when we picked up Bibby, there's a chance we may not have signed Bibby.
As for Chandler, let's remember that the league also created an amnesty in the past under similar circumstances. So it's become a normal part of the league process of cleaning house in new CBA's. There was always a high likelyhood of the league once again doing this for the new CBA. The Knicks did the smart thing in taking advantage of it not to save money but to add a key player.
In 2005, the NBA agreed on a new collective bargaining agreement (CBA). The most striking innovation granted NBA teams a one-time option to release a player without his contract counting against the luxury tax threshold regardless of how long or how rich the contract was.
IMO luck is when you do NOTHING and have good fortune, like the Bulls getting the top pick and taking Rose. There was no positive action taken or bold decision made. They just got a luck ping pong ball.
nixluva... if Baron Davis comes back on shedule Lin is released and your "prudent GM due diligence" goes out the window. Lot of teams whiffed on this guy. It happens but we could have just as easily signed Earl Boykins. Im all for giving our GM props, he's done a good job but this was shooting in the dark
fishmike wrote:nixluva... if Baron Davis comes back on shedule Lin is released and your "prudent GM due diligence" goes out the window. Lot of teams whiffed on this guy. It happens but we could have just as easily signed Earl Boykins. Im all for giving our GM props, he's done a good job but this was shooting in the dark
The thing is that they did bring Baron back and he played "AGAINST LIN", that's when Baron said that he wasn't ready and it was due to the fact that Lin was killing him in their sessions. That's not a luck thing that's part of the process. Baron was never going to just jump back in and be at 100% effectiveness. There was always going to be an adjustment period, but Lin made it abundantly clear just how much work Baron was going to need. That's where your prudent GM work comes into play. If he had taken another bad player then maybe Baron looks a little better and that interim kid is sent packing. Lin was sent to the D league and he used it wisely and as he said he came back much more prepared to play in this system. That's the reality of what happened. It's not about the "ifs"
