Knicks · Melo-Lin Problem Last Night? (page 3)

Stevo718 wrote:

Anji wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

Anji wrote:To take the next step the knicks need this guy.........

Ooops, bad iso kobe!!!!!!!!LOL

What can I say, if this coach is smart he will understand that Lin is a sideshow to keep the other guys happy. The main event is getting your best player the ball and punishing teams for letting Kyrie Irving or Ramon Sessions guard Carmelo................... which I saw alot last night but we ran some play that ended with fields or Shumps taking a jump shot.

"Lin is a sideshow" I tell you for a sideshow he seemed like he saved our season. our main event wasn't main eventing anything earlier in the season

Come on dude, Lin is a great find, but if this team goes anywhere it will be because we get Melo back to playing like he was before the injuries. Lin will better when he understand that on the court.

13 games does compare to 9 season young padawan.

You mean to get wins over the Heat or Bulls in the playoffs we need Melo to be phenominal? Yes I agree... but Lin is the one getting us there not Melo. Right now Lin is the bread and butter and Melo is the icing.

I agree the reason we are paying melo a ton of money is to help in the playoffs but lin has gotten us to this point

NYKBocker wrote:I thought Melo had a great efficient game last noght.

22 Pts on 9 of 16 shooting
5 rebounds
4 assists

I would like 3-4 more rebounds but I loved that he attacked the rim on Lin setups.

On the last minute though, I think Lin called a play with Amare on a PnR but Melo started to post up. You can see Amare waiving his hands like WTF? Lin started the play and still got the ball to Amare on a perfect roll for a thunder dunk shot.

Melo is an alpha dog and wants the ball in crunch time. I think Tyson and Amare will keep him in check.

On a positive note, he did a great job attacking the basket. On a negative note, he took a lot of low percentage contested jump-shots that happened to fall in.

Bonn1997 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I thought Melo had a great efficient game last noght.

22 Pts on 9 of 16 shooting
5 rebounds
4 assists

I would like 3-4 more rebounds but I loved that he attacked the rim on Lin setups.

On the last minute though, I think Lin called a play with Amare on a PnR but Melo started to post up. You can see Amare waiving his hands like WTF? Lin started the play and still got the ball to Amare on a perfect roll for a thunder dunk shot.

Melo is an alpha dog and wants the ball in crunch time. I think Tyson and Amare will keep him in check.

On a positive note, he did a great job attacking the basket. On a negative note, he took a lot of low percentage contested jump-shots that happened to fall in.

Come on Bonn, throw a dog a bone once! The guy scored 22 pts on 16 shots, that's pretty efficient and not black holish no?

they dont just happen to fall in. he makes those better than anybody in the league. and the threat of his jumpshot makes him a better penetrator when he faces up.

airchibundo507 wrote:they dont just happen to fall in. he makes those better than anybody in the league. and the threat of his jumpshot makes him a better penetrator when he faces up.

Most elite scorers take and make a good percantage of so-called low % shots. Bonn is at the head of the anit-Melo class and any compliment he gives Melo (Cant believe I used compliment, Melo and Bonn in the same sentence) is usually backhanded...

Uptown wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:they dont just happen to fall in. he makes those better than anybody in the league. and the threat of his jumpshot makes him a better penetrator when he faces up.

Most elite scorers take and make a good percantage of so-called low % shots. Bonn is at the head of the anit-Melo class and any compliment he gives Melo (Cant believe I used compliment, Melo and Bonn in the same sentence) is usually backhanded...

It wasn't back-handed. Melo IS excellent at attacking the basket. I think a few of you assume the worst when I'm giving a balanced analysis. I'll admit I had a stretch where I was very harsh on Melo because I was focusing on how much we gave up for him. I've accepted that that's the past though. I recognize his strengths and wish someone would work with him to maximize them.

I'm referring to a shot as high or low percentage not based on how difficult the shot appears but based on what percentage of the time the player makes the shot. Melo's excellent at getting to the rim. His % on contested jump-shots isn't pretty though.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:they dont just happen to fall in. he makes those better than anybody in the league. and the threat of his jumpshot makes him a better penetrator when he faces up.

Most elite scorers take and make a good percantage of so-called low % shots. Bonn is at the head of the anit-Melo class and any compliment he gives Melo (Cant believe I used compliment, Melo and Bonn in the same sentence) is usually backhanded...

It wasn't back-handed. Melo IS excellent at attacking the basket. I think a few of you assume the worst when I'm giving a balanced analysis. I'm referring to a shot as high or low percentage not based on how difficult the shot appears but based on what percentage of the time the player makes the shot. Melo's excellent at getting to the rim. His % on contested jump-shots isn't pretty though.

I thought Melo took 1 forced shot last night and thats it. All scorers take contested shots. Melo is a scorer. Bonn , you need to take your head out of the stats and actually watch the game.

BigRedDog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:they dont just happen to fall in. he makes those better than anybody in the league. and the threat of his jumpshot makes him a better penetrator when he faces up.

Most elite scorers take and make a good percantage of so-called low % shots. Bonn is at the head of the anit-Melo class and any compliment he gives Melo (Cant believe I used compliment, Melo and Bonn in the same sentence) is usually backhanded...

It wasn't back-handed. Melo IS excellent at attacking the basket. I think a few of you assume the worst when I'm giving a balanced analysis. I'm referring to a shot as high or low percentage not based on how difficult the shot appears but based on what percentage of the time the player makes the shot. Melo's excellent at getting to the rim. His % on contested jump-shots isn't pretty though.

I thought Melo took 1 forced shot last night and thats it. All scorers take contested shots. Melo is a scorer. Bonn , you need to take your head out of the stats and actually watch the game.

Before I fell asleep in the middle of the 3rd quarter, I counted 4 bad contested jump-shots (as well as several strong drives). Maybe you're counting a contested jump-shot as a bad shot only if it's a miss? Otherwise, I can't see how you would say there was only 1.

Bonn1997 wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:they dont just happen to fall in. he makes those better than anybody in the league. and the threat of his jumpshot makes him a better penetrator when he faces up.

Most elite scorers take and make a good percantage of so-called low % shots. Bonn is at the head of the anit-Melo class and any compliment he gives Melo (Cant believe I used compliment, Melo and Bonn in the same sentence) is usually backhanded...

It wasn't back-handed. Melo IS excellent at attacking the basket. I think a few of you assume the worst when I'm giving a balanced analysis. I'm referring to a shot as high or low percentage not based on how difficult the shot appears but based on what percentage of the time the player makes the shot. Melo's excellent at getting to the rim. His % on contested jump-shots isn't pretty though.

I thought Melo took 1 forced shot last night and thats it. All scorers take contested shots. Melo is a scorer. Bonn , you need to take your head out of the stats and actually watch the game.

Before I fell asleep in the middle of the 3rd quarter, I counted 4 bad contested jump-shots (as well as several strong drives). Maybe you're counting a contested jump-shot as a bad shot only if it's a miss? Otherwise, I can't see how you would say there was only 1.

And obviously someone should watch the game. However, the naked eye is never going to notice the difference between a shot that someone hits 44 vs. 48% of the time.

Stevo718 wrote:

Anji wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

Anji wrote:To take the next step the knicks need this guy.........

Ooops, bad iso kobe!!!!!!!!LOL

What can I say, if this coach is smart he will understand that Lin is a sideshow to keep the other guys happy. The main event is getting your best player the ball and punishing teams for letting Kyrie Irving or Ramon Sessions guard Carmelo................... which I saw alot last night but we ran some play that ended with fields or Shumps taking a jump shot.

"Lin is a sideshow" I tell you for a sideshow he seemed like he saved our season. our main event wasn't main eventing anything earlier in the season

Come on dude, Lin is a great find, but if this team goes anywhere it will be because we get Melo back to playing like he was before the injuries. Lin will better when he understand that on the court.

13 games does compare to 9 season young padawan.

You mean to get wins over the Heat or Bulls in the playoffs we need Melo to be phenominal? Yes I agree... but Lin is the one getting us there not Melo. Right now Lin is the bread and butter and Melo is the icing.

Bread and butter with icing........WTF???

Like I said, if this coach is smart he will understand that Lin is a sideshow to keep the other guys happy. The main event is getting your best player going.

Anji wrote:

Stevo718 wrote:

Anji wrote:

JCrusher wrote:

Anji wrote:To take the next step the knicks need this guy.........

Ooops, bad iso kobe!!!!!!!!LOL

What can I say, if this coach is smart he will understand that Lin is a sideshow to keep the other guys happy. The main event is getting your best player the ball and punishing teams for letting Kyrie Irving or Ramon Sessions guard Carmelo................... which I saw alot last night but we ran some play that ended with fields or Shumps taking a jump shot.

"Lin is a sideshow" I tell you for a sideshow he seemed like he saved our season. our main event wasn't main eventing anything earlier in the season

Come on dude, Lin is a great find, but if this team goes anywhere it will be because we get Melo back to playing like he was before the injuries. Lin will better when he understand that on the court.

13 games does compare to 9 season young padawan.

You mean to get wins over the Heat or Bulls in the playoffs we need Melo to be phenominal? Yes I agree... but Lin is the one getting us there not Melo. Right now Lin is the bread and butter and Melo is the icing.

Bread and butter with icing........WTF???

Like I said, if this coach is smart he will understand that Lin is a sideshow to keep the other guys happy. The main event is getting your best player going.

once again sideshow its good to see you are original. Ya lin doe make his team happy you know why? its because he makes them better and they win. Ya we need melo to actually step up but its not like he has been great for us since the trade. he got injured and lin took us from a dying team to in the playoffs. i mean its just the facst man. Im not bashing melo because i want him to do well because im a knick fan but you just dont seem to understand the game which is fine

TripleThreat wrote:

Uptown wrote:Most elite scorers take and make a good percantage of so-called low % shots.

IMHO, most elite scorers are bailed out by the refs in the regular season. They get phantom calls to get them to the line to protect their averages and are allowed to do more damage on defense ( Look at Derek Fisher, he's not a star, but he's a dirty defender, but he got away with a lot because he was head of the union. And the refs union knew their negotiations would be hard or soft depending on how long and hard Stern had to fight the players. Now that the labor war is over, the refs have no need to protect or turn a blind eye to Fisher anymore. Along with Kobe, who is simply not going to foul out by the refs, the Lakers backcourt had, for years, free license to kick, hit, punch, jab, shove, elbow and grind down opponents at will without getting a call against them)

However in the playoffs, as you move further and deeper, you are dealing with more talented teams and soon it's superstar vs superstar, which turns into a clean call game unless Stern has an incentive to get one team or player up. IMHO, low percentage shots become even more low percentage in the playoffs in terms of impact.

Melo has to take it to the cup, now and in the playoffs, it's the most high percentage move for him. Refs are not going to foul him out of the game on a charge or on defense. They will bail him out on missed shots as a slasher with phantom calls that all superstars get. That's efficient. Wear down the D, get to the line or hit the shot. Good things happen. Jacking up a long range jumper from iso is not a good efficiency. Refs can't bail out on a long jumper. You can't fake contact there. Refs will only cheat for you if they can explain it away. It can't look too much like cheating.

IMHO this is about Melo and the Knicks making a deep playoff run, that comes with efficiency and taking advantage of the superstar calls he will get by the refs.

Very well put. The irony is that I'm much more optimistic about Melo's potential than guys like Uptown who think that Melo can do only what he's always done - the same shot selection and the same 45% shooting. I see guys like Lebron, Wade, and Durant shooting 50 to 55% and I know Melo should not be in the low to mid 40s.

nyk4ever wrote:for anyone who saw after the game when the knicks do that circle thing - lin put his around melo and they walked off the court laughing and smiling. hard to imagine something is wrong if they are doing that.

Yeah, I definitely noticed the two walking to the locker room together with their arms around each other. Very touching.

These two will be just fine. Melo needs Lin and Lin needs Melo. And they both want to win.

What does work have to do with it?

TripleThreat - you make some compelling points... Until the last paragraph, where you degenerated into the same negative stereotypes that you identified.

"but I think if (Carmelo) was simply a smarter player, a more crafty and cunning technician..."

Please help me understand (in basketball terminology) what a smarter, crafty or more cunning 6'9 technician would do with such unlimited gifts that were bestowed at birth?

He would pull his bootstraps, get an education, carry a God card, and he would look less threatening.

On Second Thought

I think STAT is just lazy

TripleThreat - I think you should have microfracture surgery and then rehab that bad boy to run against world class ballers on a nightly basis.

I think you should define the exact aspects of Amar'e Stoudemire's routine that are lazy.

misterearl wrote:What does work have to do with it?

TripleThreat - you make some compelling points... Until the last paragraph, where you degenerated into the same negative stereotypes that you identified.

"but I think if (Carmelo) was simply a smarter player, a more crafty and cunning technician..."

Please help me understand (in basketball terminology) what a smarter, crafty or more cunning 6'9 technician would do with such unlimited gifts that were bestowed at birth?

Stop taking the contested mid range shots that he hits at about a 30% rate. It aint rocket science.

MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:He would pull his bootstraps, get an education, carry a God card, and he would look less threatening.

Nonsense rejected.

There is no such thing as bootstraps.

The Answer Man Calls Bullsh#t

Bonn1997 wrote:Stop taking the contested mid range shots that he hits at about a 30% rate. It aint rocket science.

Bonn1997 - you offer absolutely no mathematical evidence of Carmelo taking, or making, midrange shots.

If a contested shot is defined as a shot taken with a hand in one's face, I would offer that Carmelo is better than most at that rare skill.

My nephew Lloyd can hit an open jumper.

Carmelo Perfected His Shooting Form is his Mothers Womb

TripleThreat wrote:Consider that Melo was probably the best basketball player in any level since he was probably in the 5th grade. The talent gap must have been tremendous.

Consider that your assumption is so wack I can only take a deep breath. Consider that Jeremy Lin was probably the best player in his elementary school - the talent gap must have been tremendous. Does that early advantage give Lin a Golden Ticket to superstardom in the NBA?

misterearl wrote:The Answer Man Calls Bullsh#t

Bonn1997 wrote:Stop taking the contested mid range shots that he hits at about a 30% rate. It aint rocket science.

Bonn1997 - you offer absolutely no mathematical evidence of Carmelo taking, or making, midrange shots.

If a contested shot is defined as a shot taken with a hand in one's face, I would offer that Carmelo is better than most at that rare skill.

My nephew Lloyd can hit an open jumper.

The stats have been posted before and I didn't think it was necessary to post them again, but I will below. Here is one link: Melo's percentage on contested shots is 31 and as the site discusses, he takes way too many of them.
http://www.roundballminingcompany.com/20...
The goal should be to never take a contested shot with more than 5 on the shot-clock. Being great at shooting with a hand in your face is kind of like being great at putting out fires in burning houses - it's a nice skill but you hope to use it as rarely as possible.

Here are Carmelo's #s by location on the floor:
http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Car...
You can see that career-wise from 10 to 15 feet out, he is usually in the mid to upper 30s. At the rim he's in the 60s. This is a great example of the limitations of the naked eye. There's no way a fan is going to notice the difference between a player hitting 38 and 43% of his mid-range shots. You can't possibly keep all the data in your mind to notice that one guy hits one more shot out of every twenty attempts. My guess is that if the guy hitting 38% is taking tougher shots and looks flashier doing it, most fans will think he's the more effective shooter.

Melo is great at getting to the rim and drawing fouls or finishing. If he ever plays to his strengths and accepts his weaknesses, he'll be a true star and a major contributor to teams that regularly go deep in the playoffs. Otherwise, he'll continue to be a very talented but underachieving player with modest efficiency.