Knicks · Can Melo and Stat restructure their contracts under the new CBA so we can re-sign our other guys? (page 1)

I am not familiar with the new CBA and the restructuring measure. I heard it's possible to shift money from one year to others. If that is possible, it would make a huge difference to our salary cap and then we could have a better chance of resigning Novak, J.R., Jeffries (though I think he signs for vet minimum), etc.

We are just under 62 million with J.R.'s 2.5 option, Jordons salary, Douglas (2 million) and Balkmans 1.7 million. (Boy we should have cut Bibby instead). If J.R. bolts maybe Douglas is back to his old form.

Thx,
EMS

Knicks are going to lose a couple guys because they will be offered bigger roles somewhere else.

Just a gut feeling but I suspect Baron and JR are gone. Fields resigns. Knicks resign Novak and Lin as well.

I really hope we could resign Baron, but it will be tough to see him finishing his career as a backup/bench type guy. I thought Bobby Jackson type roll would work and I hope it does. Will see

I think we lose JR, but if we come close -- ECF finals -- and Baron smells a championship next year, then he gives it one more year. But if Davis goes, I hope Nash is still available.

The worse JR plays, the lower his value. We are his at 2.5mil. His option.

Even if Baron is good, what is the market for a guy thats inconsistant and needed 30 games on the DL at age 33 with a history?

He is good anywhere at the Vet minimum though!

I don't believe contracts can get restructured.

Nalod wrote:The worse JR plays, the lower his value. We are his at 2.5mil. His option.

Even if Baron is good, what is the market for a guy thats inconsistant and needed 30 games on the DL at age 33 with a history?

He is good anywhere at the Vet minimum though!

I don't believe contracts can get restructured.

contracts can be restructured under new CBA

You can only keep the total money the same but spread it out over one extra year. At least that's what I understood.

loweyecue wrote:You can only keep the total money the same but spread it out over one extra year. At least that's what I understood.

Darn, I was hoping we could switch Amare to the vet min

loweyecue wrote:You can only keep the total money the same but spread it out over one extra year. At least that's what I understood.

exactly everyone overlooks the new wrinkle in the new cba which allows players to restructure similar to the nfl. They still get every penny but over a longer period of time. Im going out on the lin and predicting that Jr, Davis and Novak are brought back and Fields is let go because of the redundancy

I don't know why so many people think we will lose Baron this summer.
He is still on the Cavs payroll for one more season after this.
Baron Davis will be making 8 figures next year regardless of what he does.
I think he stays! And then we have some options after that because he would have been with us for 2 full seasons.

Smith is the only one I see splitting town after this season.
We have few big $$ contract options to keep him and the MLE must be used to keep Lin.
Smith could easily make somewhere between 7.5M to 9.5M a year.
He has a player option for year 2 that if he picks up could allow us to work something out long term.

gunsnewing wrote:

loweyecue wrote:You can only keep the total money the same but spread it out over one extra year. At least that's what I understood.

exactly everyone overlooks the new wrinkle in the new cba which allows players to restructure similar to the nfl. They still get every penny but over a longer period of time. Im going out on the lin and predicting that Jr, Davis and Novak are brought back and Fields is let go because of the redundancy

I could see a couple smaller deals moved for picks or cap room- like Fields & TD, and Jerome Jordan.

Amare needs to spread that shit out then!

Good call.

Melo not a chance! La La wants that Gelt ASAP!

Nalod wrote:Amare needs to spread that shit out then!

Good call.

Melo not a chance! La La wants that Gelt ASAP!

far vas nisht? Gelt iz gut.

franco12 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

loweyecue wrote:You can only keep the total money the same but spread it out over one extra year. At least that's what I understood.

exactly everyone overlooks the new wrinkle in the new cba which allows players to restructure similar to the nfl. They still get every penny but over a longer period of time. Im going out on the lin and predicting that Jr, Davis and Novak are brought back and Fields is let go because of the redundancy

I could see a couple smaller deals moved for picks or cap room- like Fields & TD, and Jerome Jordan.

If you try to send TD we will need to give up picks not receive them. Losing Fields would be a shame this is why I am so upset about Amare's current production compared to his contract size.

"Player contracts can be renegotiated downward in extensions, as long as the player’s salary does not decrease by more than 40 percent. Previously, renegotiations could only increase a player’s salary. This could provide another key avenue for teams to maintain roster flexibility and add players with space created by restructuring existing contracts, similar to the NFL."

I just don't see Amare or Carmelo agreeing to this.

From what I can find it's true that players can just add another year on to their current deals and get the money over that much more time, there by reducing the yearly average by a substantial amount. Their team (Knicks) would be liable for that extra year if they leave or what not. It does seem like it can work then in that the player is not playing that extra year for free so to speak (if I understand things correctly). In other words you get paid over 4 years for 3 years of work, but that 4th year you can still sign a new contract.

For example:
Melo is owed 64.5 million over the next three years. Average = 21.5 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 16 million. Next years salary is 19.5 million, it frees up 3.5 million.
Amare is owed 65 million over the next three years. Average = 21.7 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 16.25 million. Next years salary is 20 million, it frees up 3.75 million.
Chandler is owed 42.2 million over the next three years. Average = 14 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 10.6 million. Next years salary is 13.6 million, it frees up 3 million.
So, if this is how it works we could free up 10.25 million for next year (not to mention trading other players for picks if need be).

Baron might not be going anywhere:

“For a good part of my career, I wasn’t having fun and I didn’t really enjoy the game and I wanted to enjoy the game again,” Davis said. “I figured if I played in this system that’s fit for my talents then I’ll be able to do that.”
Davis, who turns 33 in April, said he’s not at full strength yet. He also said he can’t really play more than 15 minutes at the moment.
“That was enough,” he said. “Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.”

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/da...

earthmansurfer wrote:From what I can find it's true that players can just add another year on to their current deals and get the money over that much more time, there by reducing the yearly average by a substantial amount. Their team (Knicks) would be liable for that extra year if they leave or what not. It does seem like it can work then in that the player is not playing that extra year for free so to speak (if I understand things correctly). In other words you get paid over 4 years for 3 years of work, but that 4th year you can still sign a new contract.

For example:
Melo is owed 64.5 million over the next three years. Average = 21.5 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 16 million. Next years salary is 19.5 million, it frees up 3.5 million.
Amare is owed 65 million over the next three years. Average = 21.7 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 16.25 million. Next years salary is 20 million, it frees up 3.75 million.
Chandler is owed 42.2 million over the next three years. Average = 14 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 10.6 million. Next years salary is 13.6 million, it frees up 3 million.
So, if this is how it works we could free up 10.25 million for next year (not to mention trading other players for picks if need be).

Baron might not be going anywhere:

“For a good part of my career, I wasn’t having fun and I didn’t really enjoy the game and I wanted to enjoy the game again,” Davis said. “I figured if I played in this system that’s fit for my talents then I’ll be able to do that.”
Davis, who turns 33 in April, said he’s not at full strength yet. He also said he can’t really play more than 15 minutes at the moment.
“That was enough,” he said. “Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.”

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/da...

It would also mean that at the end of three years all three would leave if they just wanted more money. I can see only Tyson staying because he really wants to. Melo will leave if he is still balking at a high level, Amare probably won't have a big market for him by that time.

loweyecue wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:From what I can find it's true that players can just add another year on to their current deals and get the money over that much more time, there by reducing the yearly average by a substantial amount. Their team (Knicks) would be liable for that extra year if they leave or what not. It does seem like it can work then in that the player is not playing that extra year for free so to speak (if I understand things correctly). In other words you get paid over 4 years for 3 years of work, but that 4th year you can still sign a new contract.

For example:
Melo is owed 64.5 million over the next three years. Average = 21.5 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 16 million. Next years salary is 19.5 million, it frees up 3.5 million.
Amare is owed 65 million over the next three years. Average = 21.7 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 16.25 million. Next years salary is 20 million, it frees up 3.75 million.
Chandler is owed 42.2 million over the next three years. Average = 14 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 10.6 million. Next years salary is 13.6 million, it frees up 3 million.
So, if this is how it works we could free up 10.25 million for next year (not to mention trading other players for picks if need be).

Baron might not be going anywhere:

“For a good part of my career, I wasn’t having fun and I didn’t really enjoy the game and I wanted to enjoy the game again,” Davis said. “I figured if I played in this system that’s fit for my talents then I’ll be able to do that.”
Davis, who turns 33 in April, said he’s not at full strength yet. He also said he can’t really play more than 15 minutes at the moment.
“That was enough,” he said. “Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.”

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/da...

It would also mean that at the end of three years all three would leave if they just wanted more money. I can see only Tyson staying because he really wants to. Melo will leave if he is still balking at a high level, Amare probably won't have a big market for him by that time.

We could resign them as well as another team - their is not a downer (except we have a higher cap that 4th year). But we have their bird rights and I think they are restricted as well. (Maybe not Melo with his opt out.)

earthmansurfer wrote:
Melo is owed 64.5 million over the next three years. Average = 21.5 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 16 million. Next years salary is 19.5 million, it frees up 3.5 million.
Amare is owed 65 million over the next three years. Average = 21.7 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 16.25 million. Next years salary is 20 million, it frees up 3.75 million.
Chandler is owed 42.2 million over the next three years. Average = 14 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 10.6 million. Next years salary is 13.6 million, it frees up 3 million.
So, if this is how it works we could free up 10.25 million for next year (not to mention trading other players for picks if need be).

Baron might not be going anywhere:

The thing is if we re-structured the contracts, we'd be under the cap, therefore we'd lose the MLE, so really we'd only have about 5 mil extra- would the extra $5 mil be worth screwing our cap for an extra year?

For example- if BD knows we have no money, maybe he re-signs with us for the minimum, but if he knows, after signing Lin we have $5mil left, maybe he insists on that. Either way, 5 mil will not be enough to re-sign JR Smith, Novak and BD- it would either get you BD and Novak OR JR Smith. I don't think it's worth that extra year of cap clogging.

smackeddog wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:
Melo is owed 64.5 million over the next three years. Average = 21.5 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 16 million. Next years salary is 19.5 million, it frees up 3.5 million.
Amare is owed 65 million over the next three years. Average = 21.7 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 16.25 million. Next years salary is 20 million, it frees up 3.75 million.
Chandler is owed 42.2 million over the next three years. Average = 14 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 10.6 million. Next years salary is 13.6 million, it frees up 3 million.
So, if this is how it works we could free up 10.25 million for next year (not to mention trading other players for picks if need be).

Baron might not be going anywhere:

The thing is if we re-structured the contracts, we'd be under the cap, therefore we'd lose the MLE, so really we'd only have about 5 mil extra- would the extra $5 mil be worth screwing our cap for an extra year?

For example- if BD knows we have no money, maybe he re-signs with us for the minimum, but if he knows, after signing Lin we have $5mil left, maybe he insists on that. Either way, 5 mil will not be enough to re-sign JR Smith, Novak and BD- it would either get you BD and Novak OR JR Smith. I don't think it's worth that extra year of cap clogging.

I am not sure how this work so this is just a question but if that happens and the knicks get under couldn't that make a trade and get an exception that frees up more money? How does a team get a trade exception?

earthmansurfer wrote:From what I can find it's true that players can just add another year on to their current deals and get the money over that much more time, there by reducing the yearly average by a substantial amount. Their team (Knicks) would be liable for that extra year if they leave or what not. It does seem like it can work then in that the player is not playing that extra year for free so to speak (if I understand things correctly). In other words you get paid over 4 years for 3 years of work, but that 4th year you can still sign a new contract.

For example:
Melo is owed 64.5 million over the next three years. Average = 21.5 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 16 million. Next years salary is 19.5 million, it frees up 3.5 million.
Amare is owed 65 million over the next three years. Average = 21.7 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 16.25 million. Next years salary is 20 million, it frees up 3.75 million.
Chandler is owed 42.2 million over the next three years. Average = 14 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 10.6 million. Next years salary is 13.6 million, it frees up 3 million.
So, if this is how it works we could free up 10.25 million for next year (not to mention trading other players for picks if need be).

Baron might not be going anywhere:

“For a good part of my career, I wasn’t having fun and I didn’t really enjoy the game and I wanted to enjoy the game again,” Davis said. “I figured if I played in this system that’s fit for my talents then I’ll be able to do that.”
Davis, who turns 33 in April, said he’s not at full strength yet. He also said he can’t really play more than 15 minutes at the moment.
“That was enough,” he said. “Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.”

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/da...

Is there a link you found that supports this part, "but that 4th year you can still sign a new contract."?

soundcrib wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:From what I can find it's true that players can just add another year on to their current deals and get the money over that much more time, there by reducing the yearly average by a substantial amount. Their team (Knicks) would be liable for that extra year if they leave or what not. It does seem like it can work then in that the player is not playing that extra year for free so to speak (if I understand things correctly). In other words you get paid over 4 years for 3 years of work, but that 4th year you can still sign a new contract.

For example:
Melo is owed 64.5 million over the next three years. Average = 21.5 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 16 million. Next years salary is 19.5 million, it frees up 3.5 million.
Amare is owed 65 million over the next three years. Average = 21.7 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 16.25 million. Next years salary is 20 million, it frees up 3.75 million.
Chandler is owed 42.2 million over the next three years. Average = 14 million. Over 4 years the yearly average would be 10.6 million. Next years salary is 13.6 million, it frees up 3 million.
So, if this is how it works we could free up 10.25 million for next year (not to mention trading other players for picks if need be).

Baron might not be going anywhere:

“For a good part of my career, I wasn’t having fun and I didn’t really enjoy the game and I wanted to enjoy the game again,” Davis said. “I figured if I played in this system that’s fit for my talents then I’ll be able to do that.”
Davis, who turns 33 in April, said he’s not at full strength yet. He also said he can’t really play more than 15 minutes at the moment.
“That was enough,” he said. “Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.”

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/da...

Is there a link you found that supports this part, "but that 4th year you can still sign a new contract."?

I did a google search and came across that as an example, yes. I don't have it now and they were talking about signing with another team in that example.

The problem here is there seems to be no source to go to. Is the CBA available online? No one really seems to know the answer here.

The question boils down to this: If you extend a deal from e.g. 3 years to 4 years, is the 4th year a "play year" or just an extension of the payment. In other words, is the 4th year a remainder of the contract money wise and not a "play" year, meaning you could re-sign for an extension, with another team, etc. OR Is the 4th year just mean you are extending the deal to 4 years for the same money? IF it is the latter then I see zero players EVER using this and it would be senseless.