Knicks · If I didn't know any better I would believe that Melo is sabotaging this team and trying to get Mike D fired. (page 3)
Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:What does looking like a superstar before Christmas or last night even mean? A superstar doesn't look like one for a day or a week. Jamal Crawford, Darius Miles, Harold Minor, Gerald Green - those are all guys who have had games or weeks where they looked like superstars.I know you're not a Melo guy, but comparing him to those guys is ridiculous. Melo has had a career worth of being a superstar so far. And I believe he can be that guy here. What's gone on this season has been ugly but I'm not writing him off yet as a Crawford of Gerald Green.
I didn't compare him to those guys; the notion that a player is playing like a superstar for a day or week sounds desperate though.
There's no way he's had the career of a superstar though. He's somewhere between a poor man's Vince Carter and a rich man's Jamal Crawford.What is a superstars career? He hasn't won any titles or MVPs. He's been an all star and scoring champ. I suppose repeat appearances deep in the playoffs would help.
But poor mans Vince Carter? Melo has achieved far more and has been way more consistent than Vince had been. Not to mention Melo is a great passer, rebounder, jumpmshooter and post player. His game is far superior
Jamal Crawford shouldn't be considered in the same stratosphere when comparing Melo to his contemporaries.
Vince Carter in his prime? Not close. Vince's achievements and skill set surpass Melo's. I lived in Canada and watched a lot of Vince. Passing? Look at their assist turnover #s. Jump shooting? Look at their 3 point %s. All-star games? Don't even need to comment on that. Playoff performances? Vince has been to the finals and won far more playoff series. Post playing? OK, I'll give you that one but discussing the post play of a guard is kind of pointless.A more accurate description might have been that Carmelo has had the career of a Stephon Marbury or Steve Francis. It's up to him to change that before it's too late. I can't imagine him playing like a true superstar - I don't think he has the decision-making ability - but he has a lot of talent and could play very well if he truly can acknowledge his limitations and maximize his skill set.
Vince never played in the finals and has been to a conference finals once with Dwight and the Magic as a complimentary piece.
It doesn't really matter who you compare him to. The bottom line is that he has a lot to prove. But just because he's fallen short of expectations here so far doesn't mean he's the same as guys like Francis. If anything he's closest to T Mac so far. As was Paul Pierce until KG and Ray Allen came on board.
We'll see if he can lead a team. It's his team now. My thought is trusting him and the players on this team with a coach that will play to their strenghts rather than a coach who wouldn't adjust to his players is the way to go.
If Melo and STAT can't wake up and make it work I'll new the first to admit I was wrong.
tkf wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:What does looking like a superstar before Christmas or last night even mean? A superstar doesn't look like one for a day or a week. Jamal Crawford, Darius Miles, Harold Minor, Gerald Green - those are all guys who have had games or weeks where they looked like superstars.I know you're not a Melo guy, but comparing him to those guys is ridiculous. Melo has had a career worth of being a superstar so far. And I believe he can be that guy here. What's gone on this season has been ugly but I'm not writing him off yet as a Crawford of Gerald Green.
I didn't compare him to those guys; the notion that a player is playing like a superstar for a day or week sounds desperate though.
There's no way he's had the career of a superstar though. He's somewhere between a poor man's Vince Carter and a rich man's Jamal Crawford.What is a superstars career? He hasn't won any titles or MVPs. He's been an all star and scoring champ. I suppose repeat appearances deep in the playoffs would help.
But poor mans Vince Carter? Melo has achieved far more and has been way more consistent than Vince had been. Not to mention Melo is a great passer, rebounder, jumpmshooter and post player. His game is far superior
Jamal Crawford shouldn't be considered in the same stratosphere when comparing Melo to his contemporaries.
if you go back and look at carmelo and vince numbers, they are comparable.. add to the fact that vince was just a more electrifying player and you can see how some may think vince was just as good...
This whole back and forth is supposed to show that Melo is all about numbers and not a positive force on a winner, yet you argue when all things equal go with the guy who was a great dunker. Flawed logic. Melo is a much better player than Vince ever was.
Doesn't matter though. He hasn't led an NBA team to elite status yet. He has work to do. I have faith in him, STAT and Chandler doing it together.
MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:What does looking like a superstar before Christmas or last night even mean? A superstar doesn't look like one for a day or a week. Jamal Crawford, Darius Miles, Harold Minor, Gerald Green - those are all guys who have had games or weeks where they looked like superstars.I know you're not a Melo guy, but comparing him to those guys is ridiculous. Melo has had a career worth of being a superstar so far. And I believe he can be that guy here. What's gone on this season has been ugly but I'm not writing him off yet as a Crawford of Gerald Green.
I didn't compare him to those guys; the notion that a player is playing like a superstar for a day or week sounds desperate though.
There's no way he's had the career of a superstar though. He's somewhere between a poor man's Vince Carter and a rich man's Jamal Crawford.What is a superstars career? He hasn't won any titles or MVPs. He's been an all star and scoring champ. I suppose repeat appearances deep in the playoffs would help.
But poor mans Vince Carter? Melo has achieved far more and has been way more consistent than Vince had been. Not to mention Melo is a great passer, rebounder, jumpmshooter and post player. His game is far superior
Jamal Crawford shouldn't be considered in the same stratosphere when comparing Melo to his contemporaries.
Vince Carter in his prime? Not close. Vince's achievements and skill set surpass Melo's. I lived in Canada and watched a lot of Vince. Passing? Look at their assist turnover #s. Jump shooting? Look at their 3 point %s. All-star games? Don't even need to comment on that. Playoff performances? Vince has been to the finals and won far more playoff series. Post playing? OK, I'll give you that one but discussing the post play of a guard is kind of pointless.A more accurate description might have been that Carmelo has had the career of a Stephon Marbury or Steve Francis. It's up to him to change that before it's too late. I can't imagine him playing like a true superstar - I don't think he has the decision-making ability - but he has a lot of talent and could play very well if he truly can acknowledge his limitations and maximize his skill set.
Vince never played in the finals and has been to a conference finals once with Dwight and the Magic as a complimentary piece.
It doesn't really matter who you compare him to. The bottom line is that he has a lot to prove. But just because he's fallen short of expectations here so far doesn't mean he's the same as guys like Francis. If anything he's closest to T Mac so far. As was Paul Pierce until KG and Ray Allen came on board.
We'll see if he can lead a team. It's his team now. My thought is trusting him and the players on this team with a coach that will play to their strenghts rather than a coach who wouldn't adjust to his players is the way to go.
If Melo and STAT can't wake up and make it work I'll new the first to admit I was wrong.
You're right about Vince and the playoffs. I thought he was on the Nets teams that made it to the finals but I was clearly confused. I think we're largely in agreement on Carmelo.
MSG3 wrote:tkf wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:What does looking like a superstar before Christmas or last night even mean? A superstar doesn't look like one for a day or a week. Jamal Crawford, Darius Miles, Harold Minor, Gerald Green - those are all guys who have had games or weeks where they looked like superstars.I know you're not a Melo guy, but comparing him to those guys is ridiculous. Melo has had a career worth of being a superstar so far. And I believe he can be that guy here. What's gone on this season has been ugly but I'm not writing him off yet as a Crawford of Gerald Green.
I didn't compare him to those guys; the notion that a player is playing like a superstar for a day or week sounds desperate though.
There's no way he's had the career of a superstar though. He's somewhere between a poor man's Vince Carter and a rich man's Jamal Crawford.What is a superstars career? He hasn't won any titles or MVPs. He's been an all star and scoring champ. I suppose repeat appearances deep in the playoffs would help.
But poor mans Vince Carter? Melo has achieved far more and has been way more consistent than Vince had been. Not to mention Melo is a great passer, rebounder, jumpmshooter and post player. His game is far superior
Jamal Crawford shouldn't be considered in the same stratosphere when comparing Melo to his contemporaries.
if you go back and look at carmelo and vince numbers, they are comparable.. add to the fact that vince was just a more electrifying player and you can see how some may think vince was just as good...
This whole back and forth is supposed to show that Melo is all about numbers and not a positive force on a winner, yet you argue when all things equal go with the guy who was a great dunker. Flawed logic. Melo is a much better player than Vince ever was.
Doesn't matter though. He hasn't led an NBA team to elite status yet. He has work to do. I have faith in him, STAT and Chandler doing it together.
Couldn't have said it better.
MSG3 wrote:tkf wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:What does looking like a superstar before Christmas or last night even mean? A superstar doesn't look like one for a day or a week. Jamal Crawford, Darius Miles, Harold Minor, Gerald Green - those are all guys who have had games or weeks where they looked like superstars.I know you're not a Melo guy, but comparing him to those guys is ridiculous. Melo has had a career worth of being a superstar so far. And I believe he can be that guy here. What's gone on this season has been ugly but I'm not writing him off yet as a Crawford of Gerald Green.
I didn't compare him to those guys; the notion that a player is playing like a superstar for a day or week sounds desperate though.
There's no way he's had the career of a superstar though. He's somewhere between a poor man's Vince Carter and a rich man's Jamal Crawford.What is a superstars career? He hasn't won any titles or MVPs. He's been an all star and scoring champ. I suppose repeat appearances deep in the playoffs would help.
But poor mans Vince Carter? Melo has achieved far more and has been way more consistent than Vince had been. Not to mention Melo is a great passer, rebounder, jumpmshooter and post player. His game is far superior
Jamal Crawford shouldn't be considered in the same stratosphere when comparing Melo to his contemporaries.
if you go back and look at carmelo and vince numbers, they are comparable.. add to the fact that vince was just a more electrifying player and you can see how some may think vince was just as good...
This whole back and forth is supposed to show that Melo is all about numbers and not a positive force on a winner, yet you argue when all things equal go with the guy who was a great dunker. Flawed logic. Melo is a much better player than Vince ever was.
Doesn't matter though. He hasn't led an NBA team to elite status yet. He has work to do. I have faith in him, STAT and Chandler doing it together.
Based on what?
tkf wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:What does looking like a superstar before Christmas or last night even mean? A superstar doesn't look like one for a day or a week. Jamal Crawford, Darius Miles, Harold Minor, Gerald Green - those are all guys who have had games or weeks where they looked like superstars.I know you're not a Melo guy, but comparing him to those guys is ridiculous. Melo has had a career worth of being a superstar so far. And I believe he can be that guy here. What's gone on this season has been ugly but I'm not writing him off yet as a Crawford of Gerald Green.
I didn't compare him to those guys; the notion that a player is playing like a superstar for a day or week sounds desperate though.
There's no way he's had the career of a superstar though. He's somewhere between a poor man's Vince Carter and a rich man's Jamal Crawford.What is a superstars career? He hasn't won any titles or MVPs. He's been an all star and scoring champ. I suppose repeat appearances deep in the playoffs would help.
But poor mans Vince Carter? Melo has achieved far more and has been way more consistent than Vince had been. Not to mention Melo is a great passer, rebounder, jumpmshooter and post player. His game is far superior
Jamal Crawford shouldn't be considered in the same stratosphere when comparing Melo to his contemporaries.
if you go back and look at carmelo and vince numbers, they are comparable.. add to the fact that vince was just a more electrifying player and you can see how some may think vince was just as good...
Yes and Identical to Kobe's (Offensive) numbers in almost every stat aside from Kobe averaging 1.5 more assist per game and Melo averaging 1.0 more rebounds a game.
Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:tkf wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:What does looking like a superstar before Christmas or last night even mean? A superstar doesn't look like one for a day or a week. Jamal Crawford, Darius Miles, Harold Minor, Gerald Green - those are all guys who have had games or weeks where they looked like superstars.I know you're not a Melo guy, but comparing him to those guys is ridiculous. Melo has had a career worth of being a superstar so far. And I believe he can be that guy here. What's gone on this season has been ugly but I'm not writing him off yet as a Crawford of Gerald Green.
I didn't compare him to those guys; the notion that a player is playing like a superstar for a day or week sounds desperate though.
There's no way he's had the career of a superstar though. He's somewhere between a poor man's Vince Carter and a rich man's Jamal Crawford.What is a superstars career? He hasn't won any titles or MVPs. He's been an all star and scoring champ. I suppose repeat appearances deep in the playoffs would help.
But poor mans Vince Carter? Melo has achieved far more and has been way more consistent than Vince had been. Not to mention Melo is a great passer, rebounder, jumpmshooter and post player. His game is far superior
Jamal Crawford shouldn't be considered in the same stratosphere when comparing Melo to his contemporaries.
if you go back and look at carmelo and vince numbers, they are comparable.. add to the fact that vince was just a more electrifying player and you can see how some may think vince was just as good...
This whole back and forth is supposed to show that Melo is all about numbers and not a positive force on a winner, yet you argue when all things equal go with the guy who was a great dunker. Flawed logic. Melo is a much better player than Vince ever was.
Doesn't matter though. He hasn't led an NBA team to elite status yet. He has work to do. I have faith in him, STAT and Chandler doing it together.
Based on what?
I've watched a lot of ball. Based on my eyes. I don't feel like going to the stats but I'll bet they support Melo.
What now?
Maybe we go to the stats?
markvmc wrote:Based on my eyes, I disagree. I also don't feel like going to the stats.
What now?Maybe we go to the stats?
LOL - that's funny.
Damn! Someone lost the stats! What now? 
Papabear wrote:Papabear SaysMelo is now having the worst shooting stint in his career. He is playing like he really dosen't care. It is the J Lin factor and Mike D type of ball game. I believe that is why Amare is starting to play better because he knows that the leadership is now up for grabs so he is coming out of his funk. LOL all Divas
Again don't see ANY
Leadership from Amare Stoudemire the "Carlos Boozer" of NY Basketball
Give Amare 1 ALI hit to chin, He aint coming out of it GAME, Match, SET
Basketball Game Over SOFT.
Melo can be slumped, Kobe can be slumped, Dirk can be slumped, Dwade can be slumped
they all lead with their actions at end of Games and have the fight to the very end.
A.Stoudemire isn't whom we thought he was. He's afraid to go to basket & can only lead with a 20 foot jumpershot working is sad !
MSG3 wrote:tkf wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:What does looking like a superstar before Christmas or last night even mean? A superstar doesn't look like one for a day or a week. Jamal Crawford, Darius Miles, Harold Minor, Gerald Green - those are all guys who have had games or weeks where they looked like superstars.I know you're not a Melo guy, but comparing him to those guys is ridiculous. Melo has had a career worth of being a superstar so far. And I believe he can be that guy here. What's gone on this season has been ugly but I'm not writing him off yet as a Crawford of Gerald Green.
I didn't compare him to those guys; the notion that a player is playing like a superstar for a day or week sounds desperate though.
There's no way he's had the career of a superstar though. He's somewhere between a poor man's Vince Carter and a rich man's Jamal Crawford.What is a superstars career? He hasn't won any titles or MVPs. He's been an all star and scoring champ. I suppose repeat appearances deep in the playoffs would help.
But poor mans Vince Carter? Melo has achieved far more and has been way more consistent than Vince had been. Not to mention Melo is a great passer, rebounder, jumpmshooter and post player. His game is far superior
Jamal Crawford shouldn't be considered in the same stratosphere when comparing Melo to his contemporaries.
if you go back and look at carmelo and vince numbers, they are comparable.. add to the fact that vince was just a more electrifying player and you can see how some may think vince was just as good...
This whole back and forth is supposed to show that Melo is all about numbers and not a positive force on a winner, yet you argue when all things equal go with the guy who was a great dunker. Flawed logic. Melo is a much better player than Vince ever was.
Doesn't matter though. He hasn't led an NBA team to elite status yet. He has work to do. I have faith in him, STAT and Chandler doing it together.
NO THAT is not what I am saying, what I am saying is that when all things are equal some may give vince the edge since he was a more dynamic player.. so don't put words in my mouth...
Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:tkf wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:What does looking like a superstar before Christmas or last night even mean? A superstar doesn't look like one for a day or a week. Jamal Crawford, Darius Miles, Harold Minor, Gerald Green - those are all guys who have had games or weeks where they looked like superstars.I know you're not a Melo guy, but comparing him to those guys is ridiculous. Melo has had a career worth of being a superstar so far. And I believe he can be that guy here. What's gone on this season has been ugly but I'm not writing him off yet as a Crawford of Gerald Green.
I didn't compare him to those guys; the notion that a player is playing like a superstar for a day or week sounds desperate though.
There's no way he's had the career of a superstar though. He's somewhere between a poor man's Vince Carter and a rich man's Jamal Crawford.What is a superstars career? He hasn't won any titles or MVPs. He's been an all star and scoring champ. I suppose repeat appearances deep in the playoffs would help.
But poor mans Vince Carter? Melo has achieved far more and has been way more consistent than Vince had been. Not to mention Melo is a great passer, rebounder, jumpmshooter and post player. His game is far superior
Jamal Crawford shouldn't be considered in the same stratosphere when comparing Melo to his contemporaries.
if you go back and look at carmelo and vince numbers, they are comparable.. add to the fact that vince was just a more electrifying player and you can see how some may think vince was just as good...
This whole back and forth is supposed to show that Melo is all about numbers and not a positive force on a winner, yet you argue when all things equal go with the guy who was a great dunker. Flawed logic. Melo is a much better player than Vince ever was.
Doesn't matter though. He hasn't led an NBA team to elite status yet. He has work to do. I have faith in him, STAT and Chandler doing it together.
Based on what?
exactly!!
markvmc wrote:Based on my eyes, I disagree. I also don't feel like going to the stats.
What now?Maybe we go to the stats?
LOL... good point..
MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:tkf wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:What does looking like a superstar before Christmas or last night even mean? A superstar doesn't look like one for a day or a week. Jamal Crawford, Darius Miles, Harold Minor, Gerald Green - those are all guys who have had games or weeks where they looked like superstars.I know you're not a Melo guy, but comparing him to those guys is ridiculous. Melo has had a career worth of being a superstar so far. And I believe he can be that guy here. What's gone on this season has been ugly but I'm not writing him off yet as a Crawford of Gerald Green.
I didn't compare him to those guys; the notion that a player is playing like a superstar for a day or week sounds desperate though.
There's no way he's had the career of a superstar though. He's somewhere between a poor man's Vince Carter and a rich man's Jamal Crawford.What is a superstars career? He hasn't won any titles or MVPs. He's been an all star and scoring champ. I suppose repeat appearances deep in the playoffs would help.
But poor mans Vince Carter? Melo has achieved far more and has been way more consistent than Vince had been. Not to mention Melo is a great passer, rebounder, jumpmshooter and post player. His game is far superior
Jamal Crawford shouldn't be considered in the same stratosphere when comparing Melo to his contemporaries.
if you go back and look at carmelo and vince numbers, they are comparable.. add to the fact that vince was just a more electrifying player and you can see how some may think vince was just as good...
This whole back and forth is supposed to show that Melo is all about numbers and not a positive force on a winner, yet you argue when all things equal go with the guy who was a great dunker. Flawed logic. Melo is a much better player than Vince ever was.
Doesn't matter though. He hasn't led an NBA team to elite status yet. He has work to do. I have faith in him, STAT and Chandler doing it together.
Based on what?
I've watched a lot of ball. Based on my eyes. I don't feel like going to the stats but I'll bet they support Melo.
Well you're wrong. If you look at Win Shares (the best statistic) or PER, Vince in his prime years was significantly ahead of Carmelo. It's hard for me to imagine any unbiased way of evaluating Carmelo and Vince that would put Melo on top.
Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:tkf wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:What does looking like a superstar before Christmas or last night even mean? A superstar doesn't look like one for a day or a week. Jamal Crawford, Darius Miles, Harold Minor, Gerald Green - those are all guys who have had games or weeks where they looked like superstars.I know you're not a Melo guy, but comparing him to those guys is ridiculous. Melo has had a career worth of being a superstar so far. And I believe he can be that guy here. What's gone on this season has been ugly but I'm not writing him off yet as a Crawford of Gerald Green.
I didn't compare him to those guys; the notion that a player is playing like a superstar for a day or week sounds desperate though.
There's no way he's had the career of a superstar though. He's somewhere between a poor man's Vince Carter and a rich man's Jamal Crawford.What is a superstars career? He hasn't won any titles or MVPs. He's been an all star and scoring champ. I suppose repeat appearances deep in the playoffs would help.
But poor mans Vince Carter? Melo has achieved far more and has been way more consistent than Vince had been. Not to mention Melo is a great passer, rebounder, jumpmshooter and post player. His game is far superior
Jamal Crawford shouldn't be considered in the same stratosphere when comparing Melo to his contemporaries.
if you go back and look at carmelo and vince numbers, they are comparable.. add to the fact that vince was just a more electrifying player and you can see how some may think vince was just as good...
This whole back and forth is supposed to show that Melo is all about numbers and not a positive force on a winner, yet you argue when all things equal go with the guy who was a great dunker. Flawed logic. Melo is a much better player than Vince ever was.
Doesn't matter though. He hasn't led an NBA team to elite status yet. He has work to do. I have faith in him, STAT and Chandler doing it together.
Based on what?
I've watched a lot of ball. Based on my eyes. I don't feel like going to the stats but I'll bet they support Melo.
Well you're wrong. If you look at Win Shares (the best statistic) or PER, Vince in his prime years was significantly ahead of Carmelo. It's hard for me to imagine any unbiased way of evaluating Carmelo and Vince that would put Melo on top.
Heres one way :-)
mrKnickShot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:tkf wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:What does looking like a superstar before Christmas or last night even mean? A superstar doesn't look like one for a day or a week. Jamal Crawford, Darius Miles, Harold Minor, Gerald Green - those are all guys who have had games or weeks where they looked like superstars.I know you're not a Melo guy, but comparing him to those guys is ridiculous. Melo has had a career worth of being a superstar so far. And I believe he can be that guy here. What's gone on this season has been ugly but I'm not writing him off yet as a Crawford of Gerald Green.
I didn't compare him to those guys; the notion that a player is playing like a superstar for a day or week sounds desperate though.
There's no way he's had the career of a superstar though. He's somewhere between a poor man's Vince Carter and a rich man's Jamal Crawford.What is a superstars career? He hasn't won any titles or MVPs. He's been an all star and scoring champ. I suppose repeat appearances deep in the playoffs would help.
But poor mans Vince Carter? Melo has achieved far more and has been way more consistent than Vince had been. Not to mention Melo is a great passer, rebounder, jumpmshooter and post player. His game is far superior
Jamal Crawford shouldn't be considered in the same stratosphere when comparing Melo to his contemporaries.
if you go back and look at carmelo and vince numbers, they are comparable.. add to the fact that vince was just a more electrifying player and you can see how some may think vince was just as good...
This whole back and forth is supposed to show that Melo is all about numbers and not a positive force on a winner, yet you argue when all things equal go with the guy who was a great dunker. Flawed logic. Melo is a much better player than Vince ever was.
Doesn't matter though. He hasn't led an NBA team to elite status yet. He has work to do. I have faith in him, STAT and Chandler doing it together.
Based on what?
I've watched a lot of ball. Based on my eyes. I don't feel like going to the stats but I'll bet they support Melo.
Well you're wrong. If you look at Win Shares (the best statistic) or PER, Vince in his prime years was significantly ahead of Carmelo. It's hard for me to imagine any unbiased way of evaluating Carmelo and Vince that would put Melo on top.
Heres one way :-)
Well if you take that seriously, then Melo's probably better than Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, and Larry Bird. But clearly I should have stated not only unbiased but also statistically sensible.
Bonn1997 wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:tkf wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:What does looking like a superstar before Christmas or last night even mean? A superstar doesn't look like one for a day or a week. Jamal Crawford, Darius Miles, Harold Minor, Gerald Green - those are all guys who have had games or weeks where they looked like superstars.I know you're not a Melo guy, but comparing him to those guys is ridiculous. Melo has had a career worth of being a superstar so far. And I believe he can be that guy here. What's gone on this season has been ugly but I'm not writing him off yet as a Crawford of Gerald Green.
I didn't compare him to those guys; the notion that a player is playing like a superstar for a day or week sounds desperate though.
There's no way he's had the career of a superstar though. He's somewhere between a poor man's Vince Carter and a rich man's Jamal Crawford.What is a superstars career? He hasn't won any titles or MVPs. He's been an all star and scoring champ. I suppose repeat appearances deep in the playoffs would help.
But poor mans Vince Carter? Melo has achieved far more and has been way more consistent than Vince had been. Not to mention Melo is a great passer, rebounder, jumpmshooter and post player. His game is far superior
Jamal Crawford shouldn't be considered in the same stratosphere when comparing Melo to his contemporaries.
if you go back and look at carmelo and vince numbers, they are comparable.. add to the fact that vince was just a more electrifying player and you can see how some may think vince was just as good...
This whole back and forth is supposed to show that Melo is all about numbers and not a positive force on a winner, yet you argue when all things equal go with the guy who was a great dunker. Flawed logic. Melo is a much better player than Vince ever was.
Doesn't matter though. He hasn't led an NBA team to elite status yet. He has work to do. I have faith in him, STAT and Chandler doing it together.
Based on what?
I've watched a lot of ball. Based on my eyes. I don't feel like going to the stats but I'll bet they support Melo.
Well you're wrong. If you look at Win Shares (the best statistic) or PER, Vince in his prime years was significantly ahead of Carmelo. It's hard for me to imagine any unbiased way of evaluating Carmelo and Vince that would put Melo on top.
Heres one way :-)
Well if you take that seriously, then Melo's probably better than Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, and Larry Bird. But clearly I should have stated not only unbiased but also statistically sensible.
Stats are stats my friend - don't get so angry about them.
Read the article. It says since 1996 - 1997
tkf wrote:MSG3 wrote:tkf wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:MSG3 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:What does looking like a superstar before Christmas or last night even mean? A superstar doesn't look like one for a day or a week. Jamal Crawford, Darius Miles, Harold Minor, Gerald Green - those are all guys who have had games or weeks where they looked like superstars.I know you're not a Melo guy, but comparing him to those guys is ridiculous. Melo has had a career worth of being a superstar so far. And I believe he can be that guy here. What's gone on this season has been ugly but I'm not writing him off yet as a Crawford of Gerald Green.
I didn't compare him to those guys; the notion that a player is playing like a superstar for a day or week sounds desperate though.
There's no way he's had the career of a superstar though. He's somewhere between a poor man's Vince Carter and a rich man's Jamal Crawford.What is a superstars career? He hasn't won any titles or MVPs. He's been an all star and scoring champ. I suppose repeat appearances deep in the playoffs would help.
But poor mans Vince Carter? Melo has achieved far more and has been way more consistent than Vince had been. Not to mention Melo is a great passer, rebounder, jumpmshooter and post player. His game is far superior
Jamal Crawford shouldn't be considered in the same stratosphere when comparing Melo to his contemporaries.
if you go back and look at carmelo and vince numbers, they are comparable.. add to the fact that vince was just a more electrifying player and you can see how some may think vince was just as good...
This whole back and forth is supposed to show that Melo is all about numbers and not a positive force on a winner, yet you argue when all things equal go with the guy who was a great dunker. Flawed logic. Melo is a much better player than Vince ever was.
Doesn't matter though. He hasn't led an NBA team to elite status yet. He has work to do. I have faith in him, STAT and Chandler doing it together.
NO THAT is not what I am saying, what I am saying is that when all things are equal some may give vince the edge since he was a more dynamic player.. so don't put words in my mouth...
I didn't put words in your mouth. You said electrifying, not dynamic. Dynamic mean multi dimensional. Electrifying means "Wow look he dunked over Frederick Weiss".
JonsTintedTails wrote:Muck Felo
Fab Melo?
There's a comparison between Melo and Vince Carter over the span of their careers. Very similar numbers. THey vary in certain areas due to their positions, ie more assists for the guard and more rebounds for the forward. Melo has bhetter shooting percentages but not by a lot. All in all very similar numbers.
What does this prove? Absolutely nothing. Vince never achieved much in his NBA career. Melo has yet to take his team to the heights we all want and expect. But to say Vince was far superior (Bonn) is a testament to how much you dislike Melo. And there's nothing wrong with disliking him to this point. So far it's hard to argue your longstanding judgement that he's no good for the Knicks.
I just think there's enough to show that when you put him on this roster it could be special. But he has to become a smarter ball player. I think he can and has shown a lot of flashes.