Knicks · Lin made only 4 shots attempt last night (page 3)

by the way, don't turn this into me justifying not giving 100 percent. work ethic matters to me. the point is to build your organization around people committed to excellence. but it would be silly and foolish to take the attitude of, 'you're getting paid $20 million, you figure it out' because that's basically like saying, 'you know what, my job as a coach isn't to lead, it is just to do X's and O's'

eViL wrote:that said, i agree with SC that coaches still need to know how to push buttons and get guys to be at 100% all the time. all the best lawyers, doctors, accountants, engineers, etc. don't give 100% all the time. we are all humans. and we fluctuate in terms of how much we got in us. sometimes we need a push. for athletes, it's the coach that is supposed to push you. for those other professions, it's the boss, the client, the mentor, the family -- that pushes you.

people are people... people are not financial statements.

this is the thing. i don't think MDA failed to push Melo. i just don't think Melo every really tried to get it. Melo knew he didn't have to try because D'Antoni was on his last year. if MDA and Melo could have worked it out, this team would have been devestating. Woodson is up next. i have no grounds for saying whether he'll be a failure or a success because i don't necessarily think it's up to him. there's talent here. but is there a TEAM? depends on one more guy buying in.

again, it's on both Melo and Pringles. I agree that Melo never really tried to get it. But I also think Pringles never really tried to utilize Melo's complete skillset.

rp wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

rp wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Why does he keep turning the ball over? For real. I love Lin but when does this stop?

For real, your name and lin bashing don't go hand in hand.

So just because you're asian you're not allowed to criticize Lin?

No his name is borderline racist.

I guess I had an evil plot because I had this name for years on many other message boards and was on this board before Lin came to the team. Also yellow has nothing to do with asains in this context. Stop over reacting.

yellowboy90 wrote:

rp wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

rp wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Why does he keep turning the ball over? For real. I love Lin but when does this stop?

For real, your name and lin bashing don't go hand in hand.

So just because you're asian you're not allowed to criticize Lin?

No his name is borderline racist.

I guess I had an evil plot because I had this name for years on many other message boards and was on this board before Lin came to the team. Also yellow has nothing to do with asains in this context. Stop over reacting.

Tell me its not Hepatitis!!

ChuckBuck wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Did anyone see the shot of Woodson/Melo/Lin standing during a TO and going over a play on a chalkboard? I liked how Woodson was trying to get them on the same page from the get go.

"You see that wet spot. Its there everygame in the middle of the lane."

yellowboy90 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Did anyone see the shot of Woodson/Melo/Lin standing during a TO and going over a play on a chalkboard? I liked how Woodson was trying to get them on the same page from the get go.

"You see that wet spot. Its there everygame in the middle of the lane."

carmelo's thinking of lala's boobies.

Lin's primary goal now will be to get Stoudemire and Anthony the ball.

I think his statistics flatten out at 8 points, 8 assists as a result.

JamesKPolk wrote:Lin's primary goal now will be to get Stoudemire and Anthony the ball.

I think his statistics flatten out at 8 points, 8 assists as a result.

Close...12 points, 8 assists.

i'm afraid if he doesn't keep his turnovers down, Baron Davis will start. If the offensive focus is back to melo and stat (which sounds like it is) all you need is a PG that can dribble up the court and get these 2 the ball.

HugeKnick4 wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:Lin's primary goal now will be to get Stoudemire and Anthony the ball.

I think his statistics flatten out at 8 points, 8 assists as a result.

Close...12 points, 8 assists.

How about 5 points, 5 assists...off the bench.

JamesKPolk wrote:

HugeKnick4 wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:Lin's primary goal now will be to get Stoudemire and Anthony the ball.

I think his statistics flatten out at 8 points, 8 assists as a result.

Close...12 points, 8 assists.

How about 5 points, 5 assists...off the bench.

How about we just trade Lin so that his basketball career can flourish elsewhere. Knicks can keep Bdiddy and Bibby. I was thinking of Lakers but they already have Sessions.

What other team needs a PG? You know players purposely knocks him flat off his feet. It's a contact sport and sometime, you can pretend you're playing defense while actually you're just taking your aggression out on the other guy. Refs are also turning the other way.

STERN: "Memo to the league, do not call fouls against Lin. Let him suffer. He already gave us Linsanity for a a few weeks, we don't need him anymore."

Syniko wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

HugeKnick4 wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:Lin's primary goal now will be to get Stoudemire and Anthony the ball.

I think his statistics flatten out at 8 points, 8 assists as a result.

Close...12 points, 8 assists.

How about 5 points, 5 assists...off the bench.

How about we just trade Lin so that his basketball career can flourish elsewhere. Knicks can keep Bdiddy and Bibby. I was thinking of Lakers but they already have Sessions.

What other team needs a PG? You know players purposely knocks him flat off his feet. It's a contact sport and sometime, you can pretend you're playing defense while actually you're just taking your aggression out on the other guy. Refs are also turning the other way.

STERN: "Memo to the league, do not call fouls against Lin. Let him suffer. He already gave us Linsanity for a a few weeks, we don't need him anymore."

Yep, the guy who brought the team back should absolutely take a backseat so that the two people who got nothng done can continue getting nothing done. Makes all the sense in the world. This is not Melo'steam or amare's team, there is no TEAM. It's two men trying to prove they are 'stars' and the franchise going back to the last ten years of sucking.

JamesKPolk wrote:

HugeKnick4 wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:Lin's primary goal now will be to get Stoudemire and Anthony the ball.

I think his statistics flatten out at 8 points, 8 assists as a result.

Close...12 points, 8 assists.

How about 5 points, 5 assists...off the bench.

Entirely possible that will move to the bench. I don't have an issue with that, IF Melo and STAT play like they should have all year and the Baron starts to shoot better.

loweyecue wrote:

Syniko wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

HugeKnick4 wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:Lin's primary goal now will be to get Stoudemire and Anthony the ball.

I think his statistics flatten out at 8 points, 8 assists as a result.

Close...12 points, 8 assists.

How about 5 points, 5 assists...off the bench.

How about we just trade Lin so that his basketball career can flourish elsewhere. Knicks can keep Bdiddy and Bibby. I was thinking of Lakers but they already have Sessions.

What other team needs a PG? You know players purposely knocks him flat off his feet. It's a contact sport and sometime, you can pretend you're playing defense while actually you're just taking your aggression out on the other guy. Refs are also turning the other way.

STERN: "Memo to the league, do not call fouls against Lin. Let him suffer. He already gave us Linsanity for a a few weeks, we don't need him anymore."

Yep, the guy who brought the team back should absolutely take a backseat so that the two people who got nothng done can continue getting nothing done. Makes all the sense in the world. This is not Melo'steam or amare's team, there is no TEAM. It's two men trying to prove they are 'stars' and the franchise going back to the last ten years of sucking.

Look at these two sallies.

Lin career going to take a noise dive because he can't run 90 pick and rolls a game????

How much faith do you have in him then???

Let the kid play, nothing has been taking from him so why concede to grandeur in LA or anywhere other then here???

He's only being ask to play like most point guards have to play, you know working everybody else in and picking your spots/making good decisions. God forbid that he is actually more then the sum of his usage percentage.

I do not get all the Lin to the bench talk. What is wrong with him being a pass first pg. He can still get 15 pts and 8 assists.

yellowboy90 wrote:I do not get all the Lin to the bench talk. What is wrong with him being a pass first pg. He can still get 15 pts and 8 assists.

I am not sure about that but I hope you are right.

Either way, BDiddy Sux!! I can't stand him and his chuckin'

SupremeCommander wrote:

tkf wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

SlimChin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:There is a reason Lin was praising D'Antoni. He himself knows he's not a 20 & 8 player at this early stage in his career. The system allowed him to be featured. The problem with that system say Amare & Melo were traded for role players and it becames Lin's team, Do you honestly think they would beat Miami, Chicago or OKC when those teams would key in on Lin rough him up, pressure him downcourt and force him to turn the ball over?

you think we can beat miami and chicago with inconsistent play and lack of D from melo and stat. NO.

yes if Stat & Melo are motivated and no if they are replaced by Jeffries & Walker

LOL.. if they are motivated.. now we have to motivate guys making 20 mil a year? and you don't see this as a problem?

keep dantoni, trade melo and amare for scola and kevin martin and I guarantee you the knicks would be 10 games better and the rockets 5 games worse....

Didn't JVG have to take the entire starting 5 out of the game to motivate the team. It's what coaches do they keep their players motivated

it's really easy to say that the guy making $20 million should be at 100 percent all the time. but that's not reality. it take a tremendous amount of effort and energy to get the most out of your resources all the time. that's certainly not just on the coach--the coach has to have the right personalities--but the coach is a part of that equation. that's probably the biggest reason why John wooden and Phil Jackson are held in such high regard.

yes, it is easy to say, because it makes sense!!! you make 20 mil a team.. give 100% all of the time.. really, I don't see why this should even be a discussion...

it take a tremendous amount of effort and energy to get the most out of your resources all the time.

YES!! and these guys have limited resources( their skill level declines over time) so they should be giving 100%, it is not like they are making 12 bucks and hour.. they are getting paid 20 million, that is way more than the best lawyers, accountants, doctors, engineers, scientist get per year by far.. so yes, they should be giving 100% that is why they get that type of money...

owners and fans are paying top dollar for those resources....

getting top pay might be motivation to some... but the players are people not bank accounts. Money is poor motivator. Being challenged to be the best that you can be is a better motivator. Establishing that type of culture. That's what good coaches do.

$20 million has more to do with rewarding past accomplishments.

And I contest the notion that guys getting paid 12 bucks an hour don't work as hard as best lawyers, accountants, doctors, engineers, scientist

well agree and dissagree.. Money is a motivator when these guys are in contract years.. that is for sure... But yes, challenging someone to be the best is the kind of culture you want.. but what is even better is getting guys with integrity.. guys who know they are being paid a lot of money to play a sport they love and they are hell bent on giving 100% because it is the right thing to do.. that is the kind of players we should be looking for.. not guys who will play under their terms only...

eViL wrote:

tkf wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

SlimChin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:There is a reason Lin was praising D'Antoni. He himself knows he's not a 20 & 8 player at this early stage in his career. The system allowed him to be featured. The problem with that system say Amare & Melo were traded for role players and it becames Lin's team, Do you honestly think they would beat Miami, Chicago or OKC when those teams would key in on Lin rough him up, pressure him downcourt and force him to turn the ball over?

you think we can beat miami and chicago with inconsistent play and lack of D from melo and stat. NO.

yes if Stat & Melo are motivated and no if they are replaced by Jeffries & Walker

LOL.. if they are motivated.. now we have to motivate guys making 20 mil a year? and you don't see this as a problem?

keep dantoni, trade melo and amare for scola and kevin martin and I guarantee you the knicks would be 10 games better and the rockets 5 games worse....

Didn't JVG have to take the entire starting 5 out of the game to motivate the team. It's what coaches do they keep their players motivated

it's really easy to say that the guy making $20 million should be at 100 percent all the time. but that's not reality. it take a tremendous amount of effort and energy to get the most out of your resources all the time. that's certainly not just on the coach--the coach has to have the right personalities--but the coach is a part of that equation. that's probably the biggest reason why John wooden and Phil Jackson are held in such high regard.

yes, it is easy to say, because it makes sense!!! you make 20 mil a team.. give 100% all of the time.. really, I don't see why this should even be a discussion...

it take a tremendous amount of effort and energy to get the most out of your resources all the time.

YES!! and these guys have limited resources( their skill level declines over time) so they should be giving 100%, it is not like they are making 12 bucks and hour.. they are getting paid 20 million, that is way more than the best lawyers, accountants, doctors, engineers, scientist get per year by far.. so yes, they should be giving 100% that is why they get that type of money...

owners and fans are paying top dollar for those resources....

it is a shame that a player getting paid $20M a year has the audacity to say "no. i don't want to play this way. fire the coach." (whether he says it verbally, or acts in ways that lead to the same desired result.) i think it's a poisonous mentality for a player who is supposed to be a part of the TEAM. i've already discussed why i think some of his other actions reflect a disregard for the TEAM. only time will tell if, given the right circumstances, Melo can be on a championship TEAM (one has to wonder if Melo would be upset to find out everybody gets the same sized ring. lol).

that said, i agree with SC that coaches still need to know how to push buttons and get guys to be at 100% all the time. all the best lawyers, doctors, accountants, engineers, etc. don't give 100% all the time. we are all humans. and we fluctuate in terms of how much we got in us. sometimes we need a push. for athletes, it's the coach that is supposed to push you. for those other professions, it's the boss, the client, the mentor, the family -- that pushes you.

this is the thing. i don't think MDA failed to push Melo. i just don't think Melo every really tried to get it. Melo knew he didn't have to try because D'Antoni was on his last year. if MDA and Melo could have worked it out, this team would have been devestating. Woodson is up next. i have no grounds for saying whether he'll be a failure or a success because i don't necessarily think it's up to him. there's talent here. but is there a TEAM? depends on one more guy buying in.

very well said, I just guess it is hard for me to understand why guys who make as much money as they do have to be motivated to do a job they love.... but you have a point.. everyone needs a push now and then...

loweyecue wrote:

Syniko wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

HugeKnick4 wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:Lin's primary goal now will be to get Stoudemire and Anthony the ball.

I think his statistics flatten out at 8 points, 8 assists as a result.

Close...12 points, 8 assists.

How about 5 points, 5 assists...off the bench.

How about we just trade Lin so that his basketball career can flourish elsewhere. Knicks can keep Bdiddy and Bibby. I was thinking of Lakers but they already have Sessions.

What other team needs a PG? You know players purposely knocks him flat off his feet. It's a contact sport and sometime, you can pretend you're playing defense while actually you're just taking your aggression out on the other guy. Refs are also turning the other way.

STERN: "Memo to the league, do not call fouls against Lin. Let him suffer. He already gave us Linsanity for a a few weeks, we don't need him anymore."

Yep, the guy who brought the team back should absolutely take a backseat so that the two people who got nothng done can continue getting nothing done. Makes all the sense in the world. This is not Melo'steam or amare's team, there is no TEAM. It's two men trying to prove they are 'stars' and the franchise going back to the last ten years of sucking.

that is the best description of this team and situation I have read yet... LOL.. so true.. so true!!

TripleThreat wrote:I'm not sure Melo understands fully that he has already lost the PR war. This is Lin's team. That's the way the advertisers and marketing people and corporations and sponsors will see it. Lin is the most marketable athlete on the planet now. He's worth a good billion dollars to David Stern in the league with a ten year career that's slightly above average. Give it ten years and Lin will have raked in that much for Stern and the league and the Knicks.

If the Knicks win, they were supposed to win. If Melo plays well, he was supposed to play well. If he doesn't, and the Knicks lose, it's his fault. Now he has the label of coach killer under his belt as well.

If Lin's production drops, it's Melo's fault, that's how it will spin and play out in the press. If Lin is productive, he's doing it despite the ball stopping chucker Melo. That's also how it will play out in the press.

If Lin played any other position, Melo could freeze him out, but he's the point guard, the ball is in his hands most of the time.

All it looks like now is Melo has been dogging it ( he certainly looked like he was trying vs Portland) to get his coach clipped.

Lin is in his 2nd year. His rights were acquired by each new team, so by the time his 4th year ends, the Knicks can match any offer, but they will still have Melo, STAT and Chandler on the books for heavy cap numbers, so a moderate offer and signing sheet will allow Lin to go free to another team. IMHO, right now, I'd say Lin is as good as gone from his end.

The new CBA is not designed for teams to have three players being paid so much of the cap. Right now the Knicks can get by because they have two overvalued signings that cost them nothing and are overproducing their cap cost ( Lin and Novak) Plus have an amnesty refugee in Baron Davis and a product of a lockout, JR Smith. They also are riding the last remnants of their past few drafts (Fields, Shump, Harrelson) But they burned out A LOT of assets for the Melo trade, the LeBron James offseason and the Chandler sign and trade. In a couple of years, it will be Melo, STAT ( who is going to decline further with age) and an injury prone until just recently Chandler and a bunch of minimum contract guys. No cap space, no draft picks, and a bevy of young players who will soon outprice themselves to the Knicks.

I think Lin will use this time to develop himself as a better player and create himself into a prime draw for free agency when he gets his chance.

very interesting post, and you may be 100% correct about lin, and I hope the best for that kid, I really like him.. I was hoping the knicks would defy the odds and do something smart for a change.... who knows, maybe next year and a new coach with some clout can convice dolan to go in a different direction.. on in which we can build around a new core of guys.. with lin included of course... One can dream, can't he?

Even in an offense where Melo and Amar'e are featured more, we still need penetrations and threes from our guards and Lin is good at both. Im sure last game was more of an aberration considering we won by 42. Our starters didn't reach 30mins if I remember well. You think iuts gonna be that way everytime? Heck, Bibby played more than 7 minutes in the fourth!

I think Lin is our starter for the rest of the season and while Woodson is saying and doing the right things about Melo and Amar'e, he knows what Lin is cappable of and will use it to his advantage. Also you have to be careful with Davis' health, so a stay in the bench should be the best for all.