Knicks · The Phil Jckson watch (page 1)

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv...

SHAQ endorses PJAX to NY for 20Mil. Rick Fox agrees.
I still don't see it, but I will take it ANY TIME!

Go BIG!

I'm on record as saying that as great as PJax is perceived to be he's not a miracle worker. It's not like he dragged so, so teams to the finals every year. Riley's Knicks weren't legendary rosters. Even his Heat team that won a title wasn't a particularly good team outside of DWade and Shaq. http://www.nba.com/heat/roster/roster050... It wasn't The Houston Rockets Rudy T. or Detroit Pistons L.B. or even a Rick Carlisle Mavs type challenge.

This would no doubt be one of Phil's biggest challenges. In the toughest city to try and do it without the best talent in the league leading the team. I just wonder if Phil would risk taking the hit to his legacy or would he view this as the ultimate challenge and crowning accomplishment to his career?

nixluva wrote:I'm on record as saying that as great as PJax is perceived to be he's not a miracle worker. It's not like he dragged so, so teams to the finals every year. Riley's Knicks weren't legendary rosters. Even his Heat team that won a title wasn't a particularly good team outside of DWade and Shaq. http://www.nba.com/heat/roster/roster050... It wasn't The Houston Rockets Rudy T. or Detroit Pistons L.B. or even a Rick Carlisle Mavs type challenge.

This would no doubt be one of Phil's biggest challenges. In the toughest city to try and do it without the best talent in the league leading the team. I just wonder if Phil would risk taking the hit to his legacy or would he view this as the ultimate challenge and crowning accomplishment to his career?

That argument though widely used by some especially people who with a predisposition to dislike him (e.g. many kniok fans), is refuted strongly by 1994 (the Jordanless) bulls.

"but he did not win the title .............."

go back and review how that played out.

Either way, it will always be said because it is there and easy to say. These HOFers did not win before him after him or in between. But, it is what it is.

It was not the challenge perhaps of some of the years and coaches that you mentioned but it was also TEN!!!!!!!!

I am not however saying that he was better than Riley who was an incredible coach.

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm on record as saying that as great as PJax is perceived to be he's not a miracle worker. It's not like he dragged so, so teams to the finals every year. Riley's Knicks weren't legendary rosters. Even his Heat team that won a title wasn't a particularly good team outside of DWade and Shaq. http://www.nba.com/heat/roster/roster050... It wasn't The Houston Rockets Rudy T. or Detroit Pistons L.B. or even a Rick Carlisle Mavs type challenge.

This would no doubt be one of Phil's biggest challenges. In the toughest city to try and do it without the best talent in the league leading the team. I just wonder if Phil would risk taking the hit to his legacy or would he view this as the ultimate challenge and crowning accomplishment to his career?

That argument though widely used by some especially people who with a predisposition to dislike him (e.g. many kniok fans), is refuted strongly by 1994 (the Jordanless) bulls.

"but he did not win the title .............."

go back and review how that played out.

Either way, it will always be said because it is there and easy to say. These HOFers did not win before him after him or in between. But, it is what it is.

It was not the challenge perhaps of some of the years and coaches that you mentioned but it was also TEN!!!!!!!!

I am not however saying that he was better than Riley who was an incredible coach.

I'm not saying PJax isn't a great coach. I just don't give him this rank as the best coach of all time just cuz he got 10 rings. I do think he's been the most fortunate coach of all time. I also don't believe he's some miracle worker that he can take just about any team to new heights. The Bulls team that you refer to was VERY talented, deep and knew how to play together. They missed the one ingredient that made them unbeatable, but it was still a good team. Like I said Phil is not a miracle worker, but he's a great coach. It's just my personal opinion that i've seen better coaching performances than he's had. All Time Greats can make you look REALLY good.

Why do you think he could sit there with his legs crossed so much??? Have you ever seen a more talented and mentally tough player than Jordan? Jordan was born with that in him. Kobe is almost on that level!!! Have you ever seen a more dominant physical presence than Shaq??? Yes they all needed a quality coach to bring it all together, but it's much easier when you start with a talent level no one else has.

I cannot imagine PJax in one organization with Jimmy... and in NYC in general.
There is no legacy in fighting the bureaucrats, because there is no way to win.
The only way Knicks will became a winning team is if Dolan will sell the team or will step aside from bbal.
I do not think any of this are a possibility.
When team was atrocious it was some chance, now when team is going to be in the middle of the pack for a while not any more.
If Woody will make the playoffs he will get an extension and will be here for 4 year... long years.

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm on record as saying that as great as PJax is perceived to be he's not a miracle worker. It's not like he dragged so, so teams to the finals every year. Riley's Knicks weren't legendary rosters. Even his Heat team that won a title wasn't a particularly good team outside of DWade and Shaq. http://www.nba.com/heat/roster/roster050... It wasn't The Houston Rockets Rudy T. or Detroit Pistons L.B. or even a Rick Carlisle Mavs type challenge.

This would no doubt be one of Phil's biggest challenges. In the toughest city to try and do it without the best talent in the league leading the team. I just wonder if Phil would risk taking the hit to his legacy or would he view this as the ultimate challenge and crowning accomplishment to his career?

That argument though widely used by some especially people who with a predisposition to dislike him (e.g. many kniok fans), is refuted strongly by 1994 (the Jordanless) bulls.

"but he did not win the title .............."

go back and review how that played out.

Either way, it will always be said because it is there and easy to say. These HOFers did not win before him after him or in between. But, it is what it is.

It was not the challenge perhaps of some of the years and coaches that you mentioned but it was also TEN!!!!!!!!

I am not however saying that he was better than Riley who was an incredible coach.

I'm not saying PJax isn't a great coach. I just don't give him this rank as the best coach of all time just cuz he got 10 rings. I do think he's been the most fortunate coach of all time. I also don't believe he's some miracle worker that he can take just about any team to new heights. The Bulls team that you refer to was VERY talented, deep and knew how to play together. They missed the one ingredient that made them unbeatable, but it was still a good team. Like I said Phil is not a miracle worker, but he's a great coach. It's just my personal opinion that i've seen better coaching performances than he's had. All Time Greats can make you look REALLY good.

Why do you think he could sit there with his legs crossed so much??? Have you ever seen a more talented and mentally tough player than Jordan? Jordan was born with that in him. Kobe is almost on that level!!! Have you ever seen a more dominant physical presence than Shaq??? Yes they all needed a quality coach to bring it all together, but it's much easier when you start with a talent level no one else has.

I never even came close to saying that he is the greatest coach of all time. I actually think that Riley was a better coach.

But, I give the man his due.

You sometimes say he is a great coach but look to diss him alot. I hope you are not putting MDA in his league because even if you believe that deep down, it is sacrilegious to even mention it.

He had great players but so did Riley, Aurbach ... it will always be a bit of an asterisk to some and to him like a mosquito and for that, I am hoping that he wants this challenge. So fans such as you won't be able to keep saying that.

Even with all that asterisk stuff - he over comes it a bit with the sheer number of rings.

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm on record as saying that as great as PJax is perceived to be he's not a miracle worker. It's not like he dragged so, so teams to the finals every year. Riley's Knicks weren't legendary rosters. Even his Heat team that won a title wasn't a particularly good team outside of DWade and Shaq. http://www.nba.com/heat/roster/roster050... It wasn't The Houston Rockets Rudy T. or Detroit Pistons L.B. or even a Rick Carlisle Mavs type challenge.

This would no doubt be one of Phil's biggest challenges. In the toughest city to try and do it without the best talent in the league leading the team. I just wonder if Phil would risk taking the hit to his legacy or would he view this as the ultimate challenge and crowning accomplishment to his career?

That argument though widely used by some especially people who with a predisposition to dislike him (e.g. many kniok fans), is refuted strongly by 1994 (the Jordanless) bulls.

"but he did not win the title .............."

go back and review how that played out.

Either way, it will always be said because it is there and easy to say. These HOFers did not win before him after him or in between. But, it is what it is.

It was not the challenge perhaps of some of the years and coaches that you mentioned but it was also TEN!!!!!!!!

I am not however saying that he was better than Riley who was an incredible coach.

I'm not saying PJax isn't a great coach. I just don't give him this rank as the best coach of all time just cuz he got 10 rings. I do think he's been the most fortunate coach of all time. I also don't believe he's some miracle worker that he can take just about any team to new heights. The Bulls team that you refer to was VERY talented, deep and knew how to play together. They missed the one ingredient that made them unbeatable, but it was still a good team. Like I said Phil is not a miracle worker, but he's a great coach. It's just my personal opinion that i've seen better coaching performances than he's had. All Time Greats can make you look REALLY good.

Why do you think he could sit there with his legs crossed so much??? Have you ever seen a more talented and mentally tough player than Jordan? Jordan was born with that in him. Kobe is almost on that level!!! Have you ever seen a more dominant physical presence than Shaq??? Yes they all needed a quality coach to bring it all together, but it's much easier when you start with a talent level no one else has.

I never even came close to saying that he is the greatest coach of all time. I actually think that Riley was a better coach.

But, I give the man his due.

You sometimes say he is a great coach but look to diss him alot. I hope you are not putting MDA in his league because even if you believe that deep down, it is sacrilegious to even mention it.

He had great players but so did Riley, Aurbach ... it will always be a bit of an asterisk to some and to him like a mosquito and for that, I am hoping that he wants this challenge. So fans such as you won't be able to keep saying that.

Even with all that asterisk stuff - he over comes it a bit with the sheer number of rings.

If you win multiple titles you have to be a great coach. I just try to interject some reason at the same time. He's not the only coach that could've won multiple titles with the talent he had. That's the question I ask myself. You watched all of Jordan's career. How can you not marvel at his singular talent and mental toughness??? No one could match him. You think that his hitting unreal game winning shots or making spectacular defensive plays had anything to do with Phil Jackson??? NO! Phil road Secretariat to the finish line. I'm sure he did great work with the rest of the team and that's why he's a great coach. But make no mistake what put him over the threshold was the greatness of his players, like most great coaches. Him more than others.

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm on record as saying that as great as PJax is perceived to be he's not a miracle worker. It's not like he dragged so, so teams to the finals every year. Riley's Knicks weren't legendary rosters. Even his Heat team that won a title wasn't a particularly good team outside of DWade and Shaq. http://www.nba.com/heat/roster/roster050... It wasn't The Houston Rockets Rudy T. or Detroit Pistons L.B. or even a Rick Carlisle Mavs type challenge.

This would no doubt be one of Phil's biggest challenges. In the toughest city to try and do it without the best talent in the league leading the team. I just wonder if Phil would risk taking the hit to his legacy or would he view this as the ultimate challenge and crowning accomplishment to his career?

That argument though widely used by some especially people who with a predisposition to dislike him (e.g. many kniok fans), is refuted strongly by 1994 (the Jordanless) bulls.

"but he did not win the title .............."

go back and review how that played out.

Either way, it will always be said because it is there and easy to say. These HOFers did not win before him after him or in between. But, it is what it is.

It was not the challenge perhaps of some of the years and coaches that you mentioned but it was also TEN!!!!!!!!

I am not however saying that he was better than Riley who was an incredible coach.

I'm not saying PJax isn't a great coach. I just don't give him this rank as the best coach of all time just cuz he got 10 rings. I do think he's been the most fortunate coach of all time. I also don't believe he's some miracle worker that he can take just about any team to new heights. The Bulls team that you refer to was VERY talented, deep and knew how to play together. They missed the one ingredient that made them unbeatable, but it was still a good team. Like I said Phil is not a miracle worker, but he's a great coach. It's just my personal opinion that i've seen better coaching performances than he's had. All Time Greats can make you look REALLY good.

Why do you think he could sit there with his legs crossed so much??? Have you ever seen a more talented and mentally tough player than Jordan? Jordan was born with that in him. Kobe is almost on that level!!! Have you ever seen a more dominant physical presence than Shaq??? Yes they all needed a quality coach to bring it all together, but it's much easier when you start with a talent level no one else has.

I never even came close to saying that he is the greatest coach of all time. I actually think that Riley was a better coach.

But, I give the man his due.

You sometimes say he is a great coach but look to diss him alot. I hope you are not putting MDA in his league because even if you believe that deep down, it is sacrilegious to even mention it.

He had great players but so did Riley, Aurbach ... it will always be a bit of an asterisk to some and to him like a mosquito and for that, I am hoping that he wants this challenge. So fans such as you won't be able to keep saying that.

Even with all that asterisk stuff - he over comes it a bit with the sheer number of rings.

If you win multiple titles you have to be a great coach. I just try to interject some reason at the same time. He's not the only coach that could've won multiple titles with the talent he had. That's the question I ask myself. You watched all of Jordan's career. How can you not marvel at his singular talent and mental toughness??? No one could match him. You think that his hitting unreal game winning shots or making spectacular defensive plays had anything to do with Phil Jackson??? NO! Phil road Secretariat to the finish line. I'm sure he did great work with the rest of the team and that's why he's a great coach. But make no mistake what put him over the threshold was the greatness of his players, like most great coaches. Him more than others.

MDA road Nash/Seattle Slew to a 24 million dollar contract. That ain't bad.

Why do people have to say that it was either the superstars who gave Jackson the rings, or Jackson who gave the superstars the rings?

Why does it have to be one or the other?

Jackson was a great coach, and he had great players. That's why his teams won all those titles.

To say that any coach could have done what he did is pretty ridiculous. And to say that he could have done what he did without having some of the all-time great players on his side also is ridiculous.

I do not think Jordan would have all those rings without Phil, and vice versa.

Nothing wrong with that.

It is impossible to win 11 titles without great players, but it is also impossible to win 11 titles without being a great coach.

Bottom line: A coach is judged on how well he maximizes his talent, and in his 19 seasons as an NBA coach, Jax almost always got the absolute most out of his teams.

Erniecat wrote:Why do people have to say that it was either the superstars who gave Jackson the rings, or Jackson who gave the superstars the rings?

Why does it have to be one or the other?

Jackson was a great coach, and he had great players. That's why his teams won all those titles.

To say that any coach could have done what he did is pretty ridiculous. And to say that he could have done what he did without having some of the all-time great players on his side also is ridiculous.

I do not think Jordan would have all those rings without Phil, and vice versa.

Nothing wrong with that.

It is impossible to win 11 titles without great players, but it is also impossible to win 11 titles without being a great coach.

Very well put.

One great aspect of being a coach is how you motivate your players. I think that is what makes Doc Rivers such a good coach and one of the main reasons why Phil Jackson has been so successful.

As stated before, Phil has had great talent on his rosters, but tell me how many times have we seen great rosters on paper not accomplish the ultimate goal? Phil not only had to coach great talent, but motivate them even after winning the ultimate goal.

Im intrigued at this option because we sure have more talent than we've had in many years. The talent might not be the greatest Phil has had, but it sure looks like a good one that may play so much better with the right motivation and a system that maximizes its talents. Phil might be one of the few coaches remaining that demands ultra respect by simply accepting the coaching job. Melo would have to think twice or more before trying to get into a battle with Phil. The Lord of the Rings will humiliate him right away.

A part of me would love this to happen only because its an intriguing match. But Im minly focused on winning, so if this is the way to go, make it happen!

Erniecat wrote:Why do people have to say that it was either the superstars who gave Jackson the rings, or Jackson who gave the superstars the rings?

Why does it have to be one or the other?

Jackson was a great coach, and he had great players. That's why his teams won all those titles.

To say that any coach could have done what he did is pretty ridiculous. And to say that he could have done what he did without having some of the all-time great players on his side also is ridiculous.

I do not think Jordan would have all those rings without Phil, and vice versa.

Nothing wrong with that.

It is impossible to win 11 titles without great players, but it is also impossible to win 11 titles without being a great coach.

Bottom line: A coach is judged on how well he maximizes his talent, and in his 19 seasons as an NBA coach, Jax almost always got the absolute most out of his teams.

Good job.

Common perception is that those teams were just stacked and "Waiting" for Phil.

Actually Riley was most fortunate in Laker land with showtime already having won a championship with that roster.

With PJax, what comes first, the chicken or the egg?

Phil got more rings than fingers. Great coaches have great players.

Jackson, Riley and Auerbach all had a few things in common they had key players, a sound system, knowledge and leadership but the one thing which places Red above the others is that he built the teams he coached- he traded an all star center fora draft choice, he drafted a junior and waited a year for him to graduate. No other coach built and coached like that. Since we are talking Jackson-he walked into a situation in Chicago where he got arguably the greatest player of all time together with a great no. 2 and built a system around them, walked into a situation where the players worked well in his system. Do the knick players fit his system? Can they fit it-does he really want the headaches, the media frenzy?

The more I think about it the more I want Phil to coach the Knicks. I've knocked him in the past for winning with the most talent but at the end of the day talent alone does not always get the job done.

At the end of the day, the question is would Phil Jackson want to come of this powder keg and want to work with Little Jimmy? Also, would Little Jimmy stay out of his way and let him do his job?

TheSage wrote:Jackson, Riley and Auerbach all had a few things in common they had key players, a sound system, knowledge and leadership but the one thing which places Red above the others is that he built the teams he coached- he traded an all star center fora draft choice, he drafted a junior and waited a year for him to graduate. No other coach built and coached like that. Since we are talking Jackson-he walked into a situation in Chicago where he got arguably the greatest player of all time together with a great no. 2 and built a system around them, walked into a situation where the players worked well in his system. Do the knick players fit his system? Can they fit it-does he really want the headaches, the media frenzy?

He inherietd a team that won 47 games the year before.

Most look at the names and they were in place but think they were going to be great anyway.

He grew that team.

Riley took over a team that had one a championship inside of 18 mos. They already were champs.

Big difference.

Red Auerbach did it as a coach, and them as GM. Dude was amazing.

Riley went to knicks and did not get it done, and Only had one chip in Miami after being JVG's Biitch with playoff loses except for the "fight".

Riley is over rated.

Look at Phil Jaxs roster objectively. He won with a lot of role players stepping up and doing amazing things.

Nalod wrote:

TheSage wrote:Jackson, Riley and Auerbach all had a few things in common they had key players, a sound system, knowledge and leadership but the one thing which places Red above the others is that he built the teams he coached- he traded an all star center fora draft choice, he drafted a junior and waited a year for him to graduate. No other coach built and coached like that. Since we are talking Jackson-he walked into a situation in Chicago where he got arguably the greatest player of all time together with a great no. 2 and built a system around them, walked into a situation where the players worked well in his system. Do the knick players fit his system? Can they fit it-does he really want the headaches, the media frenzy?

He inherietd a team that won 47 games the year before.

Most look at the names and they were in place but think they were going to be great anyway.

He grew that team.

Riley took over a team that had one a championship inside of 18 mos. They already were champs.

Big difference.

Red Auerbach did it as a coach, and them as GM. Dude was amazing.

Riley went to knicks and did not get it done, and Only had one chip in Miami after being JVG's Biitch with playoff loses except for the "fight".

Riley is over rated.

Look at Phil Jaxs roster objectively. He won with a lot of role players stepping up and doing amazing things.

riley overrated? did you see that knicks roster in 94 that he took to the finals and eight points away from a championship? he is a great coach. now is he better than phil? cant say because phil is such a motivator and plays mind games better than anyone. his system will work wonders with melo because melo is comfortable on the elbow which kobe and mj do their magic in the system. also he is a great post up player. this is also a coach that you better respect to get rid of that stigma. marbury had the same situation with brown and blew it but i think melo wont have that problem. i think chandler will do well in the triangle but stoudemire and lin might be the odd people out. another thing jax has done, however, is tweak the triangle to fit the strengths of his best players. the triangle he ran in chi town is different than what he ran in la. as a matter of fact, the triangle with the chicago team in the first three championship run is different than the one he ran in the last three. this is the best choice and if dolan is smart, he will listen to whetever jax says about what he needs and get out of the way, which is what i am worried about.

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm on record as saying that as great as PJax is perceived to be he's not a miracle worker. It's not like he dragged so, so teams to the finals every year. Riley's Knicks weren't legendary rosters. Even his Heat team that won a title wasn't a particularly good team outside of DWade and Shaq. http://www.nba.com/heat/roster/roster050... It wasn't The Houston Rockets Rudy T. or Detroit Pistons L.B. or even a Rick Carlisle Mavs type challenge.

This would no doubt be one of Phil's biggest challenges. In the toughest city to try and do it without the best talent in the league leading the team. I just wonder if Phil would risk taking the hit to his legacy or would he view this as the ultimate challenge and crowning accomplishment to his career?

That argument though widely used by some especially people who with a predisposition to dislike him (e.g. many kniok fans), is refuted strongly by 1994 (the Jordanless) bulls.

"but he did not win the title .............."

go back and review how that played out.

Either way, it will always be said because it is there and easy to say. These HOFers did not win before him after him or in between. But, it is what it is.

It was not the challenge perhaps of some of the years and coaches that you mentioned but it was also TEN!!!!!!!!

I am not however saying that he was better than Riley who was an incredible coach.

I'm not saying PJax isn't a great coach. I just don't give him this rank as the best coach of all time just cuz he got 10 rings. I do think he's been the most fortunate coach of all time. I also don't believe he's some miracle worker that he can take just about any team to new heights. The Bulls team that you refer to was VERY talented, deep and knew how to play together. They missed the one ingredient that made them unbeatable, but it was still a good team. Like I said Phil is not a miracle worker, but he's a great coach. It's just my personal opinion that i've seen better coaching performances than he's had. All Time Greats can make you look REALLY good.

Why do you think he could sit there with his legs crossed so much??? Have you ever seen a more talented and mentally tough player than Jordan? Jordan was born with that in him. Kobe is almost on that level!!! Have you ever seen a more dominant physical presence than Shaq??? Yes they all needed a quality coach to bring it all together, but it's much easier when you start with a talent level no one else has.

Curious, who do you rank ahead of him?

I think the only way Jackson comes here is if he gets complete control over roster moves and a guarantee (maybe in writing) that he won't be undermined by anyone, especially Dolan.

Dolan is known for being star struck by great athletes like Isiah and I'm pretty sure the same would be the case for a coach like Jax. He bought Newsday allegedly because he got tired of all the negative press in that paper. I'm pretty sure he's tired of all the jokes and the negative articles and would relish the opportunity to finally see the Knicks win another championship and to get some positive press. Look at how long Sather has been around based on performance in the very distance past. I'm pretty sure Jackson would have that kind of leeway for however long he was in NY.

jazz74 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

TheSage wrote:Jackson, Riley and Auerbach all had a few things in common they had key players, a sound system, knowledge and leadership but the one thing which places Red above the others is that he built the teams he coached- he traded an all star center fora draft choice, he drafted a junior and waited a year for him to graduate. No other coach built and coached like that. Since we are talking Jackson-he walked into a situation in Chicago where he got arguably the greatest player of all time together with a great no. 2 and built a system around them, walked into a situation where the players worked well in his system. Do the knick players fit his system? Can they fit it-does he really want the headaches, the media frenzy?

He inherietd a team that won 47 games the year before.

Most look at the names and they were in place but think they were going to be great anyway.

He grew that team.

Riley took over a team that had one a championship inside of 18 mos. They already were champs.

Big difference.

Red Auerbach did it as a coach, and them as GM. Dude was amazing.

Riley went to knicks and did not get it done, and Only had one chip in Miami after being JVG's Biitch with playoff loses except for the "fight".

Riley is over rated.

Look at Phil Jaxs roster objectively. He won with a lot of role players stepping up and doing amazing things.

riley overrated? did you see that knicks roster in 94 that he took to the finals and eight points away from a championship? he is a great coach. now is he better than phil? cant say because phil is such a motivator and plays mind games better than anyone. his system will work wonders with melo because melo is comfortable on the elbow which kobe and mj do their magic in the system. also he is a great post up player. this is also a coach that you better respect to get rid of that stigma. marbury had the same situation with brown and blew it but i think melo wont have that problem. i think chandler will do well in the triangle but stoudemire and lin might be the odd people out. another thing jax has done, however, is tweak the triangle to fit the strengths of his best players. the triangle he ran in chi town is different than what he ran in la. as a matter of fact, the triangle with the chicago team in the first three championship run is different than the one he ran in the last three. this is the best choice and if dolan is smart, he will listen to whetever jax says about what he needs and get out of the way, which is what i am worried about.

I never said Riley was a bad coach.

Over rated in terms of when he is mentioned with the great ones.

At the same time there are only two coaches who have more rings than Riles.

My arguement is weak if based on ring count. I don't like Riles. I should take my self out of the arguement.

I think my take is that Riles coached 24 years and after his 4 showtime teams which were basically a core that had already won with Paul Westhead he got thos 4 rings at the front end of Laker run. 4 rings in his first 6 years with a ready made team. Then he got only one more ring in 18 seasons.

So his run was concentrated in the front end and he coached 24 years.

Auerbach needed 11 years until he won his first, then got 9 in a 10 year period. Dude ran off EIGHT IN A ROW!

Phil got his in his 3rd season and took over for a team that won 47 the year before he got on. Then gets 6 in the next 8 years. He won 11 of 20 years. Or 9 years without. Half of Riley.

Red had Russell. Phil had Jordan. JOrdan played 5 seasons before he got Phil. No rings before Phil.

To me Riles Ring in Miami is tainted as he undercut SVG and took over the team for the season and made a nice run to finish the season. They count of course. Riles was the GM so it was his de-facto team in a way.

I guess in my mind Riles was in the right place at the start of his career and the rest, 19 seasons, many with very very good teams I don't think he is in that uber talent that Phil and Red would be in.

He has 5 rings. I think he is a two ring kind of talent.

That puts him in good company though.

Just one mans opinion.