Knicks · DAMN MDA woodson is making you look bad (page 23)
ramtour420 wrote:Woodson didn't have to try very hard, that much I know
C'mon ramtour. If you are going to throw out arbitrary statements, at least have the decency to back them up with facts. Do you have any personal point of reference for Mike Woodson?
You need to.
misterearl wrote:Say What?ramtour420 wrote:Woodson didn't have to try very hard, that much I knowC'mon ramtour. If you are going to throw out arbitrary statements, at least have the decency to back them up with facts. Do you have any personal point of reference for Mike Woodson?
You need to.
My point was that MDA made it very easy for Woodson to make him look bad.
ramtour420 wrote:My point was that MDA made it very easy for Woodson to make him look bad.
Not really.
Mike D'Antoni did not do a bad job, just an inefficient one. Mike Woodson had to immediately earn the trust of all the roster as the transition was sudden and unexpected. With the high expectations, the season just as easily could have imploded and a full scale player mutiny would have forced a complete makeover of the roster in the offseason.
Lin was shaken by D'Antoni's departure. Perfectly normal. Mike was the coach who gave him his shot. Amar'e was an advocate, at least in the papers. Jared Jeffries was also one of D'Antoni's guys as the coach stood up for him when fans were sour. Do not assume the resignation of D'Antoni was smooth sailing behind the scenes or in the locker room. It was not.
Thankfully, the team held together and Woodson's 16-6 run is greatly appreciated.
Nothing was guaranteed.
misterearl wrote:Bottom LineUnlike the "dude who will go unnamed", Woodson is allowing his guys to rest on request. Chandler sitting yesterday was an unmistakable sign he is tuned in to what his players want - and need. Managing professionals is much more than having a so-called (cough) "system". It is more about being able to recognize and manage the people under his command.
Hindsight is easy. Being able to prepare for the unknown is difficult.
Who cares whether D'Antoni would have made the playoffs with or without Statsanity, Melomania or post-Linsanity? That sh#t is more irrelevant than debating the virtues of whether Bill Walker can cover Udonis Haslem.
One thing is a stone cold lock - Mike Woodson will have us ready to play the Heat.
Good analysis and objective about MDA/Woodson.
Seems like there is much joy in kicking MDA to the curb than understanding what might have happend.
IT happened, we move on.
Woodson is dong a very good job.
misterearl wrote:Substitute Teacherramtour420 wrote:My point was that MDA made it very easy for Woodson to make him look bad.Not really.
Mike D'Antoni did not do a bad job, just an inefficient one. Mike Woodson had to immediately earn the trust of all the roster as the transition was sudden and unexpected. With the high expectations, the season just as easily could have imploded and a full scale player mutiny would have forced a complete makeover of the roster in the offseason.
Lin was shaken by D'Antoni's departure. Perfectly normal. Mike was the coach who gave him his shot. Amar'e was an advocate, at least in the papers. Jared Jeffries was also one of D'Antoni's guys as the coach stood up for him when fans were sour. Do not assume the resignation of D'Antoni was smooth sailing behind the scenes or in the locker room. It was not.
Thankfully, the team held together and Woodson's 16-6 run is greatly appreciated.
Nothing was guaranteed.
Even tho this has been already discussed, the only thing I can give MDA credit for is developing our young and raising the value of our old. Otherwise, his job is below average in every other area. Some of those areas being a complete fail. This season, if we didn't have Woody would have been even worse under MDA. No playoffs type of fail, imho
At the game yesterday. Watching Baron Davis commit two consecutive lazy turnovers. Mike Woodson was at his understated best. During a stoppage in play, he simply folded his arms, tilted his head and stared at Baron Davis, who was standing about 20 feet away, for what seemed like an eternity - but was only about 7 seconds. The message was clear. Davis looked at Woodson and understood. Shumpert played extended minutes in the second quarter at the point. Landry Fields was automatic in the third quarter.
While all eyes were on Carmelo, Davis finished with ten assists. He even played down the stretch.
Baron was corrected professionally and he dug down the best he could, with more crisp play. The loud and proud New York fans in Philips rejoiced.
In a related story - Images of Jeremy Lin running the offense dance in The Answer Man's head. It is amazing the young man can generate such visible fan support among fans of all cultural backgrounds, on the road, and he is not even on the bench.
misterearl wrote:Substitute TeacherI agree with a lot of your points. MDA didnt do a bad job he just didnt make teh adjustments he should have. Also i think lin worked well under woodson while he was healthy. True he wasn't scoring 25 but in the pacers games and the sixers games he still had a huge impactramtour420 wrote:My point was that MDA made it very easy for Woodson to make him look bad.Not really.
Mike D'Antoni did not do a bad job, just an inefficient one. Mike Woodson had to immediately earn the trust of all the roster as the transition was sudden and unexpected. With the high expectations, the season just as easily could have imploded and a full scale player mutiny would have forced a complete makeover of the roster in the offseason.
Lin was shaken by D'Antoni's departure. Perfectly normal. Mike was the coach who gave him his shot. Amar'e was an advocate, at least in the papers. Jared Jeffries was also one of D'Antoni's guys as the coach stood up for him when fans were sour. Do not assume the resignation of D'Antoni was smooth sailing behind the scenes or in the locker room. It was not.
Thankfully, the team held together and Woodson's 16-6 run is greatly appreciated.
Nothing was guaranteed.
ramtour420 wrote:misterearl wrote:Substitute Teacherramtour420 wrote:My point was that MDA made it very easy for Woodson to make him look bad.Not really.
Mike D'Antoni did not do a bad job, just an inefficient one. Mike Woodson had to immediately earn the trust of all the roster as the transition was sudden and unexpected. With the high expectations, the season just as easily could have imploded and a full scale player mutiny would have forced a complete makeover of the roster in the offseason.
Lin was shaken by D'Antoni's departure. Perfectly normal. Mike was the coach who gave him his shot. Amar'e was an advocate, at least in the papers. Jared Jeffries was also one of D'Antoni's guys as the coach stood up for him when fans were sour. Do not assume the resignation of D'Antoni was smooth sailing behind the scenes or in the locker room. It was not.
Thankfully, the team held together and Woodson's 16-6 run is greatly appreciated.
Nothing was guaranteed.
Even tho this has been already discussed, the only thing I can give MDA credit for is developing our young and raising the value of our old. Otherwise, his job is below average in every other area. Some of those areas being a complete fail. This season, if we didn't have Woody would have been even worse under MDA. No playoffs type of fail, imho
Wholeheartedly agree. Just think about this. The Knicks were about .500 at home under D'Antoni. Under Woodson, not only have they not loss back to back games, but they only have 1 home loss since he took over(Miami).
ramtour420 wrote:misterearl wrote:Say What?ramtour420 wrote:Woodson didn't have to try very hard, that much I knowC'mon ramtour. If you are going to throw out arbitrary statements, at least have the decency to back them up with facts. Do you have any personal point of reference for Mike Woodson?
You need to.
My point was that MDA made it very easy for Woodson to make him look bad.
I agree. Woodson basically came into a construction job were the guy before him didn't know how to use the equipment on site.
ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:ShellTopAdidas wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:MozelGovCocktail wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:EWwwww, Woodson almost has the same win total of MDA in half the games. That's embarassing!There are Knicks fans that are embarrased to finish 7 or 8. Had Anthony applied himself earlier, perhaps the sight would be set on 3 or 4.Without Anthony, the Knicks don't make the playoffs...
Yes they would've. Maybe not a championship, but they would've made the playoffs.LOL, you're joking right? D'Antoni was on the next cab to loserville, the guy lost the team already at 18-24.
Without Anthony but with Lin, I believe they would have made the playoffs. With neither, no way.No, we're talking about the 18-24 Knicks with all major players healthy, not Linsanity. They wouldn't have made the playoffs, morale was down, D'Antoni lost the confidence of the team, and his days were numbered already.
A lot of that 18-24 did not include Lin. I did not specifically reference "Linsanity"; obviously Lin wouldn't continue at that rate. But I do believe that with Lin, Amare, Tyson, Novak, and the other role players all from the beginning of the season, the team would make it to the 8th seed. It's really not that hard to be an 8th seed team in the east.
Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:ShellTopAdidas wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:MozelGovCocktail wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:EWwwww, Woodson almost has the same win total of MDA in half the games. That's embarassing!There are Knicks fans that are embarrased to finish 7 or 8. Had Anthony applied himself earlier, perhaps the sight would be set on 3 or 4.Without Anthony, the Knicks don't make the playoffs...
Yes they would've. Maybe not a championship, but they would've made the playoffs.LOL, you're joking right? D'Antoni was on the next cab to loserville, the guy lost the team already at 18-24.
Without Anthony but with Lin, I believe they would have made the playoffs. With neither, no way.No, we're talking about the 18-24 Knicks with all major players healthy, not Linsanity. They wouldn't have made the playoffs, morale was down, D'Antoni lost the confidence of the team, and his days were numbered already.
A lot of that 18-24 did not include Lin. I did not specifically reference "Linsanity"; obviously Lin wouldn't continue at that rate. But I do believe that with Lin, Amare, Tyson, Novak, and the other role players all from the beginning of the season, the team would make it to the 8th seed. It's really not that hard to be an 8th seed team in the east.
?
Lin was the starting point guard during that final 6 gaming losing streak, and he played the majority of the last 19 games as starter before D'Antoni "resigned".
Basically the Knicks were only going in one direction, with lots of over .500 ball clubs like Indiana, Orlando, Philly, Chicago, Miami on the schedule. The Knicks do not make the playoffs from that 18-24 point the way they were playing with D'Antoni still as Head Coach. The Bucks would've easily solidified the 8th spot.
Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:ShellTopAdidas wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:MozelGovCocktail wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:EWwwww, Woodson almost has the same win total of MDA in half the games. That's embarassing!There are Knicks fans that are embarrased to finish 7 or 8. Had Anthony applied himself earlier, perhaps the sight would be set on 3 or 4.Without Anthony, the Knicks don't make the playoffs...
Yes they would've. Maybe not a championship, but they would've made the playoffs.LOL, you're joking right? D'Antoni was on the next cab to loserville, the guy lost the team already at 18-24.
Without Anthony but with Lin, I believe they would have made the playoffs. With neither, no way.No, we're talking about the 18-24 Knicks with all major players healthy, not Linsanity. They wouldn't have made the playoffs, morale was down, D'Antoni lost the confidence of the team, and his days were numbered already.
A lot of that 18-24 did not include Lin. I did not specifically reference "Linsanity"; obviously Lin wouldn't continue at that rate. But I do believe that with Lin, Amare, Tyson, Novak, and the other role players all from the beginning of the season, the team would make it to the 8th seed. It's really not that hard to be an 8th seed team in the east.
There is not a big separation (3.5) games between where we are and the 9th seed. Also, its hard to gauge what Lin could have done outside Linsanity - Melo since the Linsanity schedule was extremely weak. Miami exposed him a bit and teams quickly followed suit.
Count Carmelo Anthony among those who want to see Knicks interim head coach Mike Woodson back next year."Absolutely," Anthony told ESPN's Hannah Storm in an interview for the SportsCenter series "Face2Face." "I'm a big supporter of what coach Woodson has done. His approach to the game, and what he gets out of all his players, even me. He holds everybody accountable and that's what we need."
Woodson took over the Knicks on March 14 when they were six games under .500 and in the midst of a six-game losing streak. He's since led New York to a 16-6 record.
The Knicks clinched their second straight playoff berth last week and enter play Tuesday in seventh place in the Eastern Conference, thanks in no small part to Anthony, whose averaging 31 points on 50 percent shooting in April.
Anthony has repeatedly credited Woodson for holding players 'accountable.'
The former Hawks head coach took over for Mike D'Antoni on March 14 after D'Antoni and the organization 'mutually' agreed to part ways.
There was rampant speculation that one of the main reasons for the coaching change was a rift between D'Antoni and Anthony.
In the interview with Storm, Anthony said he never had a problem with D'Antoni.
"Me and Coach Mike never had any arguments, we never had any clashes or any disagreements," Anthony said. "We communicated. If it was something that he didn't like, I always went to him and said, 'Coach, come to me, let me know what you don't like; if it's something I'm doing, if it's something I'm not doing. As long as me and you is on the same page, none of this outside stuff should be (affecting us)."
"I think it just became a lot of pressure from his standpoint, from my standpoint and then losing basketball games at the same time," Anthony added. "And who else were they going to put (as) the Clash of the Titans? It was me and Coach Mike."
You can follow Ian Begley on Twitter.
Woodson gets Melo 25+ shots a game.
He should loove him.
Melo has made good and shooting around 50% on most games.
Win-win!
ShellTopAdidas wrote:If melo bought into MDA system, they would have made the playoffs with ease. You guys act like MDA FORGOT how to coach. The man was a good coach. His track record speak for itself. He's proved it with far less talent. Now his defence sucks, but ain't that why we got Shump, Chandler, and Woody??? If certain players bought in, and not dog it, we would have been successful.
hes gone and we will never know for sure about those IFs n BUTs type of scenarios.
ShellTopAdidas wrote:If melo bought into MDA system, they would have made the playoffs with ease. You guys act like MDA FORGOT how to coach. The man was a good coach. His track record speak for itself. He's proved it with far less talent. Now his defence sucks, but ain't that why we got Shump, Chandler, and Woody??? If certain players bought in, and not dog it, we would have been successful.
I hope that in the full Hannah Storm Interview Melo tells us why he intentionally missed shot for MDA. He said that he is working harder for Woodson, so me being a dummy who does not know or understand context believe that he was DEFINITELY missing shots on purpose and that is just SO SO WRONG!
ShellTopAdidas wrote:If melo bought into MDA system, they would have made the playoffs with ease. You guys act like MDA FORGOT how to coach. The man was a good coach. His track record speak for itself. He's proved it with far less talent. Now his defence sucks, but ain't that why we got Shump, Chandler, and Woody??? If certain players bought in, and not dog it, we would have been successful.I disagree. When he won in Phoenix he had a ton of talent. I also think he is a roster specific coach and the most important component to his team having success is having a point guard that can create in a free flow situation. He had the best guy in the league doing that in Phoenix. He lost an awful lot in NY both with talented and less talented teams. Management was headed in a different direction, building a more traditional roster. I think they gave him the year to see what he could do with the team. He struggled and unlike with Walsh, guys that were a part of the managements plan for the team were not going to get moved if they didn't fit with the coaches style/system. Also, I do think guys bought in and I don't think the coach communicated to them that there was a problem. I really think some players, i.e. dream teamers, think that D'Antoni is just a laid back, cool guy that doesn't sweat stuff. In reality I think he was wound pretty tight and struggled with communication. That's just my take on the coach and it might be wrong.
mrKnickShot wrote:ShellTopAdidas wrote:If melo bought into MDA system, they would have made the playoffs with ease. You guys act like MDA FORGOT how to coach. The man was a good coach. His track record speak for itself. He's proved it with far less talent. Now his defence sucks, but ain't that why we got Shump, Chandler, and Woody??? If certain players bought in, and not dog it, we would have been successful.I hope that in the full Hannah Storm Interview Melo tells us why he intentionally missed shot for MDA. He said that he is working harder for Woodson, so me being a dummy who does not know or understand context believe that he was DEFINITELY missing shots on purpose and that is just SO SO WRONG!
Melo may not have been able to fix his shot or level of fitness early in the season, but when he came back for that 10 game stretch after Linsanity where the team went 2-8 with him back, Melo could easily have played harder and that would've made a huge difference in W/L over that stretch. That's the key part that really made a huge difference for Woody. He got the best Melo had in terms of effort, which as we saw was more important than his scoring at 1st. Now he's on a hot streak much as he was at the end of last year, even better perhaps.